| systemdlete | Geez, I actually believed I understand package dependencies, but I am no longer so sure. Have a look at this: https://pastebin.com/pnNmWYn1 | 00:30 |
|---|---|---|
| systemdlete | Removing the login manager will also remove libreoffice? | 00:30 |
| systemdlete | I'm sorry if the reason is obvious--I might have just hit my head one too many times. | 00:31 |
| _ds_ | “aptitude why-not $PACKAGE” may help. | 00:32 |
| _ds_ | (or “why”, as appropriate) | 00:33 |
| systemdlete | I don't have aptitude installed. Can you run it for slim? | 00:33 |
| systemdlete | (I'd rather not install it) | 00:34 |
| systemdlete | I mean, is why and why-not dependent on my installed packages, or is it simply generic? If generic, then anyone should be able to get the answer, right? | 00:35 |
| systemdlete | at any rate, this is way too involved. I cannot see why libreoffice--or any other user app--would be a dependency of a login package. | 00:36 |
| plasma41 | systemdlete: My guess is that task-xfce-desktop depends on slim, so when you remove slim, task-xfce-desktop gets removed. I'm guessing most of the packages that task-xfce-desktop depends on are only marked as 'automatically' rather than 'manually' installed so they are marked as _candidates_ for autoremoval, but won't be unless you specifically run 'apt autoremove'. | 00:39 |
| plasma41 | systemdlete: You can mark a package as manually installed with 'apt-mark manual pkgname'. | 00:40 |
| systemdlete | plasma41, task-xfce-desktop isn't the question, though. I am asking about libreoffice: Why is that connected with slim, by and by? | 00:41 |
| systemdlete | But I am installing aptitude anyway... | 00:41 |
| systemdlete | So task-xfce-desktop recommends libreoffice-writer, but the question is why, and why not the entire suite? And if it only recommends it, then why should it want to tear out everything? | 00:43 |
| plasma41 | systemdlete: task-xfce-desktop depends on libreoffice-writer, libreoffice-calc, libreoffice-impress, and libreoffice-help-en-us. Try running 'apt-mark manual libreoffice-writer libreoffice-calc libreoffice-impress libreoffice-help-en-us' before removing slim. | 00:43 |
| systemdlete | desktop package only RECOMMENDS writer, not depends on, at least according to aptitude's why function | 00:44 |
| plasma41 | systemdlete: Or install lightdm in place of slim in one command with 'apt install lightdm slim-' | 00:45 |
| systemdlete | I don't use a DM, tbh. slim is disabled here. | 00:45 |
| systemdlete | That's because I have my sensitive data encrypted, and I unlock it when the system boots | 00:45 |
| systemdlete | so i feel no need for login | 00:45 |
| systemdlete | (security, that is) | 00:46 |
| plasma41 | systemdlete: Right, but if task-xfce-desktop is removed because one of its Depends is removed, namely slim, than anything that is only installed automatically as a Recommends of task-xfce-desktop, namely the libreoffice packages, become candidates for autoremoval as nothing is Depending or Recommending on their installation anymore. | 00:48 |
| systemdlete | so a recommended package is always installed? I thought recommend is diff from dependency. | 00:50 |
| systemdlete | I thought it was optional. | 00:50 |
| _ds_ | task-xfce-desktop depending on *-en-us? Looks like a bug to me. | 00:51 |
| systemdlete | AHA! | 00:51 |
| systemdlete | thank you _ds_ !!! | 00:51 |
| systemdlete | smoking gun, you got it | 00:51 |
| _ds_ | (wrong locale for me) | 00:51 |
| plasma41 | It is optional, but an automatically installed package won't get autoremoved if another package Depends, Recommends, or Suggests it. | 00:51 |
| systemdlete | plasma41, I think _ds_ might have solved it | 00:52 |
| _ds_ | Have I? | 00:52 |
| systemdlete | Idk. I thought you said it was a bug | 00:52 |
| _ds_ | I was commenting on the fact that it depends on packages for a specific locale. | 00:53 |
| plasma41 | I've got to go, but hopefully what I've written is helpful. | 00:53 |
| systemdlete | I'm still confused. It looks like libreoffice-* is to be added to the autoremove list upon removing slim | 00:53 |
| _ds_ | (I'd want *-en-gb and no *-en-us) | 00:53 |
| systemdlete | oh, sorry _ds_ I thought you saw something in that locale package. I guess not. | 00:54 |
| _ds_ | Could it be that it's just showing everything on that list? | 00:54 |
| _ds_ | (regardless of whether it can be removed once slim's removed) | 00:54 |
| systemdlete | _ds_: What I have noticed, over many times using apt, that when it warns you of a list of items that way, it means it will be added to the autoremove list. | 00:55 |
| _ds_ | Hmm. I normally use aptitude, so I wouldn't have noticed that. | 00:55 |
| systemdlete | I know it won't automatically remove the libreoffice packages et al, but the fact that it lists them tells me that the next time I run autoremove, all of those packages will be removed. | 00:56 |
| systemdlete | I will just leave slim alone. It IS disabled anyway, and it doesn't use much disk space, afaict. | 00:58 |
| systemdlete | It's just that some of the dependencies I've run into are a bit...odd. | 00:59 |
| systemdlete | I mean, it's weird (to me, ok) that the task package that installs a desktop is dependent on having a DM. I'd think that DM would be a separate option, apart from any desktop. | 01:00 |
| systemdlete | I know there is SOME interaction issues with desktops and DMs | 01:00 |
| systemdlete | but still, it might be better to query the admin when trying to install a potentially lethal combination. | 01:01 |
| systemdlete | (there is no law stating that a desktop user MUST run a DM or login manager) | 01:02 |
| systemdlete | sorry not "DM" | 01:02 |
| systemdlete | s/DM/login manager/g | 01:02 |
| Jjp137 | task-* packages tend to cover a wide variety of use cases; if you already know exactly what you want, don't use the task-* packages and install the individual packages instead | 01:03 |
| systemdlete | Jjp137, can that be done (easily) during install? That's how the desktop task package got installed in the first place. | 01:04 |
| systemdlete | (and the installer for this system is from hunger, frankly) | 01:04 |
| Jjp137 | what I usually do is only have the standard system tools installed (or whatever it's called) and then just pick and choose after the install | 01:05 |
| systemdlete | I might start doing that too, yeah. | 01:06 |
| systemdlete | thanks everyone. | 01:08 |
| systemdlete | (again) | 01:08 |
| systemdlete | sorry about my poor attitude about apt and my even worse aptitude with aptitude. | 01:09 |
| systemdlete | :D | 01:09 |
| FatPhil | one nice thing is that you can delete tasksel itself after the install, it's of no use to man nor beast, so just ditch it. | 10:40 |
| Kitty | any news on the new devuan release? | 14:51 |
| gnarface | no, but it's usable and there's test install images already up | 15:06 |
| Arthfach | Hello everyone! I recently learned that MariaDB is integrating AI into the database. As someone looking to stay privacy-focused and whose primary OS is Devuan (which I picked, in large part, for privacy reasons), is there any plan in the works for an alternative DB as the system default, or openness for a maintainer to provide a forked copy with the AI integrations stripped out? | 18:15 |
| djph | er, isn't that some (optional) integration with mindsDB | 18:18 |
| Arthfach | Indeed; it's through MindsDB - I had read that it was going to be a non-optional integration but if that's not the case and it's not true / was misstated; that's wonderful news. | 18:20 |
| djph | I mean, if you don't install "mindsDB" , it's kind of impossible to use that application ;) | 18:26 |
| Arthfach | Very true. If it's not mandatory, all is good. Thanks, @djph! :) | 18:31 |
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