| Xenguy | I have this laptop that I really love, and it is working again, nonimally, but still I'm beginning to wonder if it is somehow just cursed... | 03:54 |
|---|---|---|
| Xenguy | There are 2 main problems right now, but the first is that I can hear sound through the regular PC speakers, but when I plug in some earphones, I don't hear any sound... | 03:55 |
| Xenguy | I'm wondering if there is a way to troubleshoot this somehow? | 03:56 |
| Xenguy | I am using Beowulf, and I have updated it using apt-get update | 03:58 |
| fluffywolf | do you have pulse? | 04:02 |
| Xenguy | fluffywolf: Pulseaudio? | 04:03 |
| Xenguy | If so, yes pulseaudio is installed | 04:04 |
| fluffywolf | that's problem #1... | 04:07 |
| Xenguy | I have never had an issue with pulseaudio in the past | 04:08 |
| rustyaxe | pipewire<3 | 04:08 |
| * rustyaxe installs devuan onto new sd card for radio pi :o | 04:10 | |
| Xenguy | The key here is that I have sound, just not through the earphone jack. That I don't understand | 04:11 |
| Xenguy | It may be as simple as a hardware failure I suppose | 04:11 |
| brocashelm | mine are all alsa setups; headphone jack connects to my receiver. if i want to switch to headphones, i simply plug in my headphones into the receiver :) | 04:11 |
| brocashelm | although i could also connect my headphones to the front jack and pipe the sound there (instead of my receiver) | 04:13 |
| Xenguy | To be clear, I'm not looking for any customized setups, I'm just looking sound that just works. Nothing fancy has ever been required for this, nor should it be needed | 04:14 |
| Xenguy | So really I'm looking for a way to troubleshoot this situation in as simple and direct way as possible | 04:15 |
| brocashelm | alsa i find to be much more straight-forward and works with traditional headphone jacks (instead of usb/bluetooth) | 04:18 |
| brocashelm | can you test with another pair of headphones to confirm whether it's the headphone device or your pc? | 04:19 |
| Xenguy | I don't use usb or bluetooth, just plugging into a standard round headphone jack | 04:20 |
| brocashelm | that should work 100% fine with alsa. i never had a problem taking this route | 04:20 |
| brocashelm | alsamixer lets you monitor all the sound channels | 04:20 |
| Xenguy | I have tested with 2 different earphones, and I know they work on the other laptop, so I think that test is covered off | 04:20 |
| brocashelm | ok, so it's pulseaudio on your system not picking them up somehow | 04:21 |
| Xenguy | I did notice with alsamixer that when I first went in, the headphone setting was at zero volume, so I adjusted that, but it didn't seem to result in any change in the headphone behaviour/output | 04:25 |
| gnarface | Xenguy: if you're using pulseaudio you need to check pavucontrol | 04:31 |
| gnarface | by chance have you changed/updated your HDMI display hardware since it stopped working? | 04:31 |
| gnarface | (i've seen some misbehavior with pulseaudio on beowulf too) | 04:31 |
| Xenguy | I just read the Release Notes for Beowulf and there is a line that needs to be commented out in a file... | 04:34 |
| Xenguy | This was done before but I just checked and the line was not commented out, hrm | 04:35 |
| Xenguy | gnarface: Thanks, I will queue pavucontrol until I see whether commenting that line, as advised by the Release Notes, helps | 04:36 |
| Xenguy | That's funny, after commenting the line, now I get no sound at all, whereas previously I at least got sound without headphone : -) | 04:37 |
| onefang | If you wear the headphones while you plug them in, do you hear some short static? That will tell you that there's some voltage on the headphone jack at least. No static might mean the jack is broken somehow. You said it's old, might just need cleaning. | 04:38 |
| Xenguy | onefang: Yeah I do hear static on the headphones. I'm going to pull a windows and reboot at this point, since I've changed a few things | 04:40 |
| gnarface | it's usually a failure in jack detection but it's not always clear whether it's coming from pulse or alsa | 04:40 |
| gnarface | i usually just disable jack detection in alsa and manage the volumes manually | 04:41 |
| gnarface | but that's where i'm not using pulseaudio | 04:41 |
| gnarface | where i am using pulseaudio though, i am generally helpless before this type of bug | 04:42 |
| Xenguy | As I say, I've always just gone with the default setup (which is pulseaudio) and things just work fine. I'm not opposed to seeking a different setup, but I would rather not go down that road unless clearly necessary... | 04:43 |
| Xenguy | Reboot now just to clear the decks | 04:43 |
| gnarface | (recently Steam added the missing mute button to the Remote Play console though, that helped) | 04:43 |
| onefang | Some audio does go through HDMI on some devices, even if it's only for the headphone jack, so gnarface's earlier suggestion might be worth looking into. | 04:43 |
| gnarface | well, that was related to my Steam issue; the current hypothesis is i experienced a regression when adding new monitors to that machine, because they were HDMI so they had their own audio devices that now pulse was trying to erroneously re-route audio to by default in certain cases where it was not before... cases where there were no apparent override controls provided by pavucontrol | 04:45 |
| gnarface | but, years later Valve actually added a control to their own interface for it | 04:45 |
| onefang | My graphics card has four video outputs, but six audio devices. I had to try them all to figure out which one went to the monitor that has speakers. lol | 04:46 |
| gnarface | i still don't know how to deal with that situation in pavucontrol, but i have some suspicion it was swept under the rug with a newer release | 04:46 |
| gnarface | (the beowulf system is also the only one i'm using pulseaudio on) | 04:46 |
| onefang | Meh I just use alsa and Jack, but I do pro type audio stuff sometimes. | 04:47 |
| Xenguy | OK, happy to report that whatever I changed worked, and I now have sound through headphones now | 04:50 |
| Xenguy | Now for the 2nd problem, and this is indeed vexing... | 04:50 |
| Xenguy | I took this laptop with me on a roadtrip this weekend only to discover that the wifi was blocked, at the hardware level. Note that this was never the case before, to the best of my recollection... | 04:51 |
| Xenguy | With this laptop, if I wanted to turn off wifi, I would need to do it at the software level, as there was no hardware switch to turn wifi on and off... | 04:52 |
| Xenguy | But when I run 'rfkill', it says that wifi is turned off at the hardware level currently... | 04:52 |
| Xenguy | So I absolutely don't understand how wifi could get turned off at the hardware level, or how to turn it back on | 04:53 |
| Xenguy | Since I use ethernet cables at home, I didn't notice this was an issue until I when on the road and tried to use wifi, and that's where I realized something was amiss | 04:54 |
| Xenguy | For this problem I should probably create decent testing conditions by turning on my wifi on my router, so that I can properly test while I fiddle | 04:55 |
| onefang | Is there a carefully hidden switch for that WiFi? Maybe an internal jumper that got dislodged. | 04:55 |
| Xenguy | Let's see if I can remember how to do that : -) | 04:55 |
| gnarface | Xenguy: only though i have about that is if it doesn't have a physical wifi switch on it, there's gotta be a setting in the BIOS(EFI) | 04:56 |
| gnarface | the only thought* | 04:56 |
| gnarface | (usually if there is a physical wifi switch, it's still a drive-by-wire control attached to a bios setting) | 04:56 |
| gnarface | (^ and as such, can have expected behavior sabotaged reverse-engineered linux drivers) | 04:57 |
| Xenguy | onefang: On this laptop there was never a hardware switch for wifi that I was aware of; I always had to shut off wifi (when I wanted to) using the software level | 04:57 |
| gnarface | *sabotaged by | 04:57 |
| Xenguy | gnarface: Alright, thanks, so your advice is to check the BIOS settings for wifi related settings? | 04:58 |
| gnarface | yes | 04:58 |
| Xenguy | Alright, since I just rebooted, I may as well do so again, and check that : -) | 04:59 |
| gnarface | though how it could have gotten changed without a bios update or direct sabotage is still a mystery | 04:59 |
| gnarface | you're sure the wifi driver is loaded, right? | 04:59 |
| Xenguy | gnarface: This is what drives me crazy too... Basically the laptop has just been turned off for a long time, so why should settings *change* since then and now? | 05:00 |
| gnarface | standard first steps would be make sure the driver is loaded, and make sure any non-free firmware packages necessary for it are installed | 05:00 |
| gnarface | you're right, it really shouldn't have changed, that part is a mystery, but maybe you'll get to the bottom of it | 05:00 |
| Xenguy | re: sure it's loaded: No, I am not sure, so that's on the to-do list I suppose | 05:00 |
| Xenguy | I'll try checking the BIOS now then, bbiab, thanks again for all assistance rendered, and yet to be offered | 05:01 |
| gnarface | i don't know for sure the rfkill behavior well enough to know that this might not be caused by a regular update accidentally removing a non-free package or a kernel/initrd update changing which modules auto-load without being placed in /etc/modules | 05:01 |
| onefang | BIOS settings might change if the BIOS battery failed while it was turned off for a long time. | 05:03 |
| onefang | Gotta wait for him to come back so we can repeat. | 05:04 |
| Xenguy | gnarface: Good suggestion to check the BIOS I think, and here are the results... | 05:11 |
| Xenguy | Wireless LAN was already enabled; Wireless WAN was disabled, so I enabled it just in case. | 05:12 |
| onefang | BIOS settings might change if the BIOS battery failed while it was turned off for a long time. | 05:12 |
| Xenguy | I'm not really sure what 'Wireless WAN' is, and I don't believe it was necessary before, to achieve working wireless, but I enabled it for now just in case | 05:14 |
| Xenguy | Current output for 'rfkill' is: | 05:14 |
| Xenguy | # rfkill | 05:14 |
| Xenguy | ID TYPE DEVICE SOFT HARD | 05:14 |
| Xenguy | 0 wlan phy0 blocked blocked | 05:14 |
| Xenguy | So wireless seems to be blocked at both the software and hardware level | 05:15 |
| rwp | Look for a hardware switch on the side of the laptop. Mine has one. That hard blocks. | 05:15 |
| Xenguy | rwp: Understood, for example on my older laptop it does have a hardware switch, but unless my memory is completely faulty, this laptop was only able to block wifi via software (i.e. not hardware). That's why it's such a mystery as to how wifi could become blocked at the hardware level also, on this machine (and it was working fine before I turned it off for a long time) | 05:18 |
| rwp | If you don't see it disabled in the BIOS then I would boot a live boot image and look there in order to isolate that it is not some current software configuration. | 05:19 |
| rrq | Xenguy: which laptop brand & type is it? | 05:20 |
| rwp | Blocking it in software would normally be the soft block shown by rfkill list. But it says hard blocked. Therefore I would look for something stronger. Switch or BIOS. | 05:20 |
| rrq | some laptops have wifi switching on function key | 05:21 |
| Xenguy | rrq: This is my beloved X220 Thinkpad | 05:21 |
| onefang | Not beloved enough if you left it turned off for a long time. | 05:22 |
| rwp | My X220 has an rfkill hard switch on the left side front. And I have frustratingly accidentally hit it several times. | 05:23 |
| rwp | It should be showing green when enabled. Not green when blocked. | 05:23 |
| Xenguy | I just tried using the function key to toggle software wifi, and it did nothing; but then I toggled it in the wicd GUI, and now wifi is unblocked at the software level | 05:23 |
| Xenguy | onefang: It's a long story | 05:24 |
| Xenguy | OMG | 05:24 |
| rwp | Look below the PCMCIA slot in front of the USB there. | 05:24 |
| rwp | I have accidentally hit that several times when putting it into my bag because I always put that end down. | 05:24 |
| Xenguy | You are perfectly right rwp! | 05:24 |
| Xenguy | My memory was absolutely faulty in this case | 05:25 |
| onefang | lol | 05:25 |
| Xenguy | Good idea to ask for the actual model rrq : -) | 05:25 |
| rwp | I am typing on my own X220 right now! It's been an awesome machine for all of these years. And it has the best keyboard of my collection. | 05:25 |
| onefang | User error, please replace your user with a working one. | 05:25 |
| Xenguy | rwp: I really love this baby, but I was starting to get paranoid that it was somehow cursed, hahah | 05:26 |
| Xenguy | OK, before I get too giddy and celebrate, I need to get my wifi turned on , and try a test to connect to it | 05:26 |
| Xenguy | BTW, should I turn off 'Wireless WAN' in my BIOS, anyone? I don't really know what that does, but it was set to 'on' before today | 05:27 |
| onefang | Maybe it mirrors that WiFi kill switch you just found? | 05:27 |
| Xenguy | We may be in business now: | 05:28 |
| Xenguy | # rfkill | 05:28 |
| Xenguy | ID TYPE DEVICE SOFT HARD | 05:28 |
| Xenguy | 0 wlan phy0 unblocked unblocked | 05:28 |
| gnarface | Xenguy: could be a cellular modem? did this model have such a thing? | 05:28 |
| onefang | Yay! | 05:28 |
| Xenguy | gnarface: Not knowledgeable enough to know what that is | 05:28 |
| onefang | Wish I could find a 5G cellular modem that doesn't cost hundreds. | 05:28 |
| rwp | Wireless WAN would be a cell modem. Mine is not so equipped. I would need to reboot to look in the BIOS but pretty sure it isn't even an option for me. | 05:29 |
| onefang | Something that does the bare minimum so I can plug it into a Pi or something and run the rest open source. | 05:29 |
| gnarface | my pinephone calls the wifi device wlan0 and the 4g cell modem wwan0 | 05:29 |
| gnarface | the amazon listing for this laptop calls it "WWAN upgradeable" | 05:30 |
| gnarface | not seeing a lot of details though | 05:30 |
| gnarface | onefang: pine64 cells 4g ones anyway | 05:31 |
| onefang | That's one reason I can't find a 5G modem. Too many different words for it, PLUS WiFi has a 5G band. | 05:31 |
| Xenguy | Okay, so thank you all very much, wicd was able to scan the nearby wireless access points, so I am now back in business (and I have sound through earphones too) so tonight has been a successfully troubleshooting session I would say | 05:31 |
| gnarface | Xenguy: if it has a modem you didn't know about previously, i would recommend for safety that you go turn it back off in the bios | 05:32 |
| onefang | I got a 4G modem / router one, but found out recently the 4G part of it is running an embedded Android that replacing the router firmware with something open source wont replace. | 05:32 |
| gnarface | (and for battery life) | 05:32 |
| Xenguy | gnarface: Thanks, that was my inclination also | 05:32 |
| gnarface | neat feature though | 05:32 |
| Xenguy | I think I'll do that now before I forget. Thanks kindly again everyone, I'm one happy camper at the moment : -) | 05:33 |
| Xenguy | This laptop might turn out to be uncursed afterall = ) | 05:33 |
| onefang | I'm really considering replacing the firmware, coz SOMETHING keeps resetting the connection every 24 hours, 1 minute, 0 seconds. Running out of ways to work around that. | 05:33 |
| onefang | You are welcome Xenguy. | 05:34 |
| rwp | It's not cursed! It's a good machine. Speak to it nicely and tap on the keys softly. :-) | 05:34 |
| rustyaxe | quectel ec-25 modules are cheap, gnarface | 05:35 |
| onefang | And especially tap on that WiFi kill switch very softly, or not at all. | 05:35 |
| rustyaxe | Might look at the gl-inet pulli or collie devices, they're pretty solid kit and run openwrt from the factory | 05:35 |
| onefang | rustyaxe: are you talking to me or gnarface? | 05:36 |
| rustyaxe | 5g you're not gonna get cheap -- about 250$ seems be starting place of the 5g modules | 05:36 |
| rustyaxe | onefang: you seem to be afflicted with android, so both? :P | 05:36 |
| gnarface | yea, the pine64 ones are objectively crappy modems, but the nice thing about them is that the reverse-engineered drivers are fairly fully functional, no android parts required | 05:36 |
| rustyaxe | I'd promptly return any network kit i purchased that ran android lol | 05:38 |
| rustyaxe | that seems horrifying :) | 05:38 |
| onefang | It was only when I was checking the open source firmware for it that I found out about the internal Android. | 05:38 |
| onefang | And yes, was promptly horrified, especially since it said you can't replace that bit. | 05:39 |
| onefang | So 5G modem that does the bare minimum, install Devuan on a Pi to be the router would be awesome. | 05:40 |
| onefang | Also horrifying that this new 4G modem / router pings two Microsoft servers at random times. | 05:41 |
| onefang | I can still return it, but I want to find something better to replace it. So 5G would be nice. | 05:43 |
| rustyaxe | onefang: https://store.gl-inet.com/products/m2-5g-development-board | 05:43 |
| rustyaxe | that might work -- i know most of gl-inet's routers are openwrt based which means linux | 05:44 |
| onefang | I'm guessing that's USA $225? Looks like I could plug it into any USB port. | 05:46 |
| onefang | "1 x 5G Module (Optional)" I gotta pay more for the important bit? | 05:50 |
| onefang | I gotta go grocery shopping, and I'm hungry. Time to wander out, get some lunch, then visit the supermarket. Back later. | 05:51 |
| rustyaxe | no | 05:52 |
| rustyaxe | its 29$ without the module | 05:52 |
| rustyaxe | just for the usb adaptor / antenna / sim connection / etc board you pay 29$ and can add any module -- for 225$ usd you get both the module and a quectel 5g-nr cat19 module | 05:54 |
| onefang | You where right the first time rustyaxe, 5G isn't cheap. That's out of my budget. Guess I'll see what's the best 4G LTE modem or modem / router I can get with open source firmware, or can be replaced by open source firmware. Just the modem and plug it into a Pi running Devuan for the router side will work, I don't need that many Ethernets. | 07:04 |
| rustyaxe | onefang: cheapest is prolly a quectel ec-25 or similar - but thats a cat4 module so you wont get over maybe 50mbit -- tho around here thats what QoS is set at on my 5g device so... :) | 07:46 |
| rustyaxe | you can either use those in ppp over usb serial mode or qmi mode which seems to gain a slight (few percent usually) gain in speeds but might require funny qualcomm drivers or smthg (note quectel is huawei, not qualcomm, but they 'clone' the qmi interface | 07:48 |
| onefang | Never heard of qmi. | 07:48 |
| rustyaxe | onefang: a cheaper route might be to find a cheap 5g android with unlocked bootloader, if such a thing exists, then usb tether it to a router and mangle the TTL to try to hide the fact you're hotspotted | 07:49 |
| rustyaxe | pretty sure you can install iptables/nftables on android | 07:49 |
| rustyaxe | but you'll definitely need root and preferably unlocked bootloader so you can change the kernel image as needed | 07:50 |
| onefang | The problem with using Android as a hotspot is that the battery will stay on charge forever, which will kill it quickly. I was trying that with my old 4G smart phone before I bought the 4g LTE router. | 07:51 |
| onefang | I'm also considering buying a Fairplay phone soonish. | 07:51 |
| gnarface | quectel ec-25, that's the same as the Pine64 one, right? | 07:52 |
| gnarface | i mean, they also use that one... i think it shows up in a lot of devices from around 10 years ago | 07:52 |
| gnarface | (14?) | 07:52 |
| rustyaxe | No clue, its what's in the many, many LTE devices we have in the field (around 1400 ;) | 07:52 |
| gnarface | yea i think it's the same one | 07:53 |
| rustyaxe | probably theyre like 45$ bare, non-oem pricing | 07:53 |
| gnarface | yea they'll be cheap | 07:53 |
| rustyaxe | I figure ~25-30$ at most oem pricing since the routers run <100$ usd | 07:53 |
| gnarface | they run a little hot though | 07:53 |
| onefang | Living in the sub-tropics, running a little hot might not be good. | 07:54 |
| gnarface | yea, probably not | 07:54 |
| gnarface | pine64 makes phones of these things and the two biggest problems with them are heat and battery life | 07:54 |
| gnarface | what i understand though is the next level of entry is several times more expensive, and doesn't have linux drivers | 07:55 |
| gnarface | (though there's a community of folks around them aggressively trying to pass off that android kernel as linux) | 07:56 |
| onefang | Android kernel is a modified Linux kernel. And these days their command line user space is toybox, similar to busybox. | 07:57 |
| gnarface | the community firmware has improved idle temperatures a lot though, so it'll only really heat up when transferring data | 07:57 |
| gnarface | ... but, they're cheap and they work, that's the important part really | 08:01 |
| brocashelm | sounds like a good topic for... #devuan-offtopic | 08:01 |
| gnarface | good point | 08:02 |
| user3614 | With package runit-init does the file /etc/inittab have ny effect? Is package sysv-rc really needed? | 08:55 |
| gnarface | user3614: not sure, but i think the runit can optionally use sysvinit scripts | 09:32 |
| user3614 | Actually, the package initscripts depend on sysv-rc, file-rc or openrc. And /lib/runit/run_sysv_scripts seems to be the runit code running sysvinit scripts. | 09:35 |
| gnarface | user3614: yea, but the scripts themselves may require the rest of sysv0rc | 09:37 |
| gnarface | *sysv-rc | 09:37 |
| user3614 | At least from the list of files in sysv-rc the rest seems to be just documentation or lintian stuff. I.e., /etc/init.d/rc and /etc/init.d/rcS seem to be the only files containing code. | 09:41 |
| Xenguy | Still working on bringing this laptop back to the future, and after a ton of upgrades to bring this Beowulf installation, I now have a couple of loose ends: | 19:42 |
| Xenguy | The following packages have been kept back: | 19:42 |
| Xenguy | libpolkit-qt-1-1 libpolkit-qt5-1-1 | 19:42 |
| Xenguy | Trying to remove either proposes the removal of a ton of software, so that doesn't seem to be an option... | 19:43 |
| Xenguy | I did try: aptitude why <package> | 19:43 |
| Xenguy | But can't see any silver bullet so far, so wondering about a good way to troubleshoot getting rid of these dangling threads | 19:44 |
| Xenguy | I suppose they could just continue to dangle there, and it wouldn't be the end of the world | 19:45 |
| fsmithred | how about apt rdepends ... | 19:45 |
| * Xenguy has a look ... | 19:45 | |
| n4dir | me being me: i'd remove them, let the ton of software get removed too, then reinstall it. If reinstalling would bring the problem back, i'd be angry. | 19:46 |
| fsmithred | are you stuck on the chimaera versions of those packages? | 19:47 |
| fsmithred | libpolkit-qt-1-1 doesn't seem to exist in daedalus | 19:48 |
| fsmithred | just the qt5 one | 19:48 |
| Xenguy | fsmithred: This is Beowulf here | 19:48 |
| Xenguy | This is one redepends: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/ab5773df/ | 19:49 |
| fsmithred | it's not in chimaera, either | 19:50 |
| bb|hcb | Xenguy: Maybe moving to daedalus will also get rid of the stuff that requires them? I'd keep them, until fully upgraded and only afterwards look what and why | 19:50 |
| Xenguy | This is the 2nd rdepends: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/9db12033/ | 19:51 |
| fsmithred | are you in the middle of upgrade to chimaera? | 19:51 |
| fsmithred | that paste shows the beowulf version | 19:51 |
| fsmithred | maybe 'apt install libpolkit-qt5-1-1=0.113.0-1' | 19:51 |
| Xenguy | I didn't intend to upgrade from Beowulf, no; I just wanted to update the current Beowulf install | 19:52 |
| fsmithred | oh | 19:52 |
| fsmithred | I haven't tried that in a long time. | 19:52 |
| Xenguy | Beowulf is updated here now, except I have those 2 dangling threads... | 19:52 |
| Xenguy | I wish I knew more about how to resolve them myself... | 19:53 |
| fsmithred | are they stopping you from upgrading? | 19:53 |
| Xenguy | I think you helped me before in one of these situations fsmithred when I upgraded online from ASCII to Beowulf... | 19:53 |
| n4dir | i never was good with it, but aptitude makes proposals how to solve a situation | 19:54 |
| fsmithred | yeah ^^^ | 19:54 |
| Xenguy | Since I don't want to upgrade right now, I suppose they aren't doing any real harm, I just thought maybe there was a way to get it resolved | 19:54 |
| n4dir | most of the times it told me "remove loads of packages" ... lol | 19:54 |
| Xenguy | n4dir: Is this the 'aptitude why' approach, or something else? | 19:55 |
| fsmithred | yeah, force upgrade to chimaera where libpolkit-qt-1-1 doesn't exist. | 19:55 |
| n4dir | no, you just use aptitude instead of apt-get (or apt) | 19:55 |
| n4dir | it will then find a problem, and make proposals. | 19:55 |
| fsmithred | aptitude -s full-upgrade | 19:55 |
| Xenguy | Again though, I don't want to upgrade to Chimaera, at least right now | 19:56 |
| Xenguy | I think it is safe nowadays to mix and match apt, apt-get, and aptitude ? | 19:56 |
| fsmithred | also consider this - if you apt install and it wants to remove a bunch, note whether they will actually be removed or just be added to the autoremove list. | 19:56 |
| n4dir | should work, as long you don't edit the sources.list, which you won't. | 19:57 |
| fsmithred | if it's autoremove, they might not go away after you install some things. | 19:57 |
| n4dir | Xenguy: in case of problems aptitude would ask you, like "accept solution?", if you say no, it will make a different proposal | 19:57 |
| n4dir | (lets hope i remember that right, but i am quite sure)) | 19:58 |
| fsmithred | full-upgrade will install new packages if they are needed. | 19:58 |
| fsmithred | same as dist-upgrade | 19:58 |
| fsmithred | safe-upgrade or just plain upgrade will only upgrade packages that are already installed. | 19:58 |
| Xenguy | I'll perhaps look at playing around with aptitude a bit then, and see if I can gain further insight... | 19:59 |
| Xenguy | In the end it's just a nice-to-have, certainly not a showstopper | 20:00 |
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