| Guest17 | how to make ssh auto-start on system boot | 13:04 |
|---|---|---|
| n4dir | Guest17: which init system do you use? | 13:06 |
| n4dir | usually ssh autostarts as soon it is installed, automatically, i think | 13:07 |
| Guest17 | Devuan, current stable | 13:07 |
| Guest17 | ah I missread . the default init I think | 13:07 |
| n4dir | Guest17: you still can choose among init systems, probably you use sysv | 13:07 |
| Guest17 | probably systemv .... how to verify which I use | 13:07 |
| n4dir | sysv-rc-conf is a ncurses too. | 13:07 |
| n4dir | tool, to autostart or disable autostart of services | 13:08 |
| n4dir | do something like "apt-get install -s sysv-rc-conf", and if it doesn't try to remove openrc or runit or such, then install it | 13:08 |
| n4dir | open it, search for ssh and make sure it is enabled. | 13:08 |
| n4dir | -s for apt-get means simulate, so do that to get an idea if it will remove another init system | 13:09 |
| n4dir | if it won't; do "apt-get install sysv-rc-conf" (or apt, if you prefer, or aptitude, or whatever else is out there) | 13:09 |
| n4dir | or first do "/etc/init.d/ssh status" | 13:10 |
| n4dir | did that at least make sense? The general approach? | 13:11 |
| Guest17 | I think sys-rc-conf worked fine here | 13:13 |
| Guest17 | could add more help on this somewhere like a wiki. search engines insist on finding doc for Debian often | 13:13 |
| n4dir | really most you need to know is /etc/init.d/<service-name> ; then start, stop, status, and for a comfortable solution sysv-rc-conf | 13:14 |
| n4dir | as long you don't plan to edit init scripts, or create them | 13:14 |
| n4dir | perhaps try the forum. | 13:15 |
| cousin_luigi | n4dir: rcconf messed up things for me more than once | 13:19 |
| cousin_luigi | Oh, you mean a different command. | 13:20 |
| n4dir | i got to go. And others probably know more about init systems than i do. Later. :-) | 13:22 |
| ham5urg | I'm installing devuan as described in https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=4919 but intel-microcode as well as linux-firmware is not in the repo. I did enable contrib and non-free. What am I missing? | 18:06 |
| gnu_srs1 | ham5urg: Which release did you install? | 18:10 |
| ham5urg | daedalus | 18:11 |
| debdog | mayhap non-free-firmware is missing (which is new since daedalus) | 18:13 |
| ham5urg | Will this affect the performance? power consumption, etc. | 18:17 |
| ham5urg | Package firmware-linux missed too | 18:18 |
| gnu_srs1 | firmware-linux is at: pool/DEBIAN/non-free-firmware/f/firmware-nonfree/firmware-linux_20230625-2_all.deb | 18:28 |
| gnu_srs1 | And intel-microcode is there too :) | 18:29 |
| ham5urg | I don't get it. I have three lines in my sources.list. daedalus, daedalus-security, daedalus-updates and each with main, contrib, non-free. | 18:49 |
| ham5urg | apt update does its job | 18:50 |
| ham5urg | But when I do a apt search intel-microcode I get an empty result. | 18:50 |
| debdog | ham5urg: main contrib non-free non-free-firmware | 18:57 |
| debdog | the last one is new | 18:58 |
| ham5urg | Aha | 19:02 |
| ham5urg | firmware-linux is the old linux-firmware? | 19:07 |
| ham5urg | Seems to me that firmware-linux is not needed for a laptop. Just intel-microcode and firmware-iwlwifi | 19:10 |
| ham5urg | I installed 'gnome' but I miss sound. Do I need any extra packages? | 19:43 |
| ham5urg | rc-update show does not list any pulseaudio oder pipewire daemon. | 19:45 |
| gnarface | ham5urg: can't help you with gnome, but try this to test sound: speaker-test -c 2 -t wav | 19:59 |
| gnarface | i don't know if gnome requires pulseaudio but in general it's not a given that you need it | 20:07 |
| ham5urg | gnarface, pulseaudio replaces pipewire-audio what removes gnone as a whole. | 20:10 |
| gnarface | ham5urg: to be clear, i meant for you to try speaker-test without either of them | 20:11 |
| ham5urg | hmm, I get an playback error -112, Host is down | 20:15 |
| ham5urg | maybe a kernel module is missed | 20:15 |
| gnarface | ham5urg: no, "host is down" isn't a kernel error, that's suggesting you still have part of the pulseaudio/pipewire monstrosity installed, but not the part it needs to work | 20:16 |
| gnarface | it's all or nothing on this shit, you do without or you adopt it all | 20:17 |
| gnarface | when this had come up for someone else last time, they had removed pulseaudio but had forgotten to remove some parts of pipewire, i think, but there might be other combinations that cause it | 20:18 |
| ham5urg | the main-distros broke it beyond repair | 20:18 |
| gnarface | uh, maybe, but probably not. probably you've misinterpereted some minor config glitch and panicked and made it worse, but probably it's not "broke beyond repair" | 20:19 |
| gnarface | start by removing ALL the pipewire+pulseaudio+jack+esd+sndio+arts+whatever else you might have, and test just bare alsa with speaker-test | 20:20 |
| gnarface | they all still need alsa, at a fundamental low level. once we get that working, the rest will work. | 20:20 |
| gnarface | and make sure your user is in the audio group | 20:21 |
| gnarface | 99% of the time it's just a permissions issue or your audio devices changed order and it's trying to play sound out your fucking webcam or some stupid shit | 20:26 |
| gnarface | (and this is a problem you could still run into with a full working pipewire+pulseaudio stack installed if you don't know to run pavucontrol to change the default output device) | 20:27 |
| gnarface | ham5urg: i'm trying to help but i can't unless you actively carry out these tests for me and feed back the responses | 20:34 |
| ham5urg | gnarface, I tried to run pipewire as root but it tells me that libpipewire-module-protocol-native is not existent. | 20:36 |
| ham5urg | I will deinstall gnome and will try to play via alsa some sound on the command line. | 20:37 |
| gnarface | ham5urg: all you should have to do is uninstall pipewire or install pulseaudio with it, afaik, but i don't know about gnome issues other than that most people who used to use gnome switched to mate or cinnamon to avoid gnome's broken power management and sensors implementation | 20:37 |
| gnarface | ham5urg: as far as i know, with your current setup, sound won't work without gnome either. it's pipewire that's causing the problem. | 20:38 |
| ham5urg | Yes | 20:39 |
| ham5urg | Give me some minutes, I will respond if I can play via alsa | 20:39 |
| gnarface | ham5urg: don't forget you need to either be root or be in the audio group | 20:40 |
| ham5urg | espeaker-test works | 20:43 |
| ham5urg | gnome is removed | 20:43 |
| ham5urg | Pipewire and Pulseaudio too | 20:44 |
| ham5urg | Plain cli | 20:44 |
| gnarface | ok, good that it works with no tweaking to alsa | 20:44 |
| gnarface | if you install gnome again, does it insist on carrying in pipewire and/or pulseaudio even if you use "--no-install-recommends" ? | 20:45 |
| ham5urg | Yes, pipewire is getting pulled in. Even if no recommends are installed. | 20:46 |
| gnarface | damn, so a gnome problem. it might work if you also add pulseaudio, but i'm not sure | 20:47 |
| ham5urg | It will collide | 20:47 |
| gnarface | that's weird to me, because i know they work together in many setups | 20:47 |
| gnarface | have you considered mate or cinnamon instead? | 20:48 |
| gnarface | they may be very similar but lack this problem | 20:48 |
| ham5urg | pipewire-alsa and pipewire-audio collide with pulseaudio | 20:48 |
| gnarface | is there a pipewire package that doesn't? | 20:49 |
| gnarface | maybe there are alternatives | 20:49 |
| gnarface | only other idea i have is to stick around long enough to talk to someone who knows pulseaudio and pipewire better. mostly i've only practiced doing without them. | 20:50 |
| ham5urg | Gnome is a waste of time | 20:51 |
| gnarface | well, i can make alternate recommendations | 20:53 |
| gnarface | the pulseaudio/pipewire mess is common though | 20:53 |
| gnarface | mate and cinnamon seem to be popular with gnome refugees | 20:54 |
| gnarface | i can't say i've used either myself though | 20:54 |
| gnarface | kde is very professionally done but will probably force you to use pulseaudio, but at least will probably actually work | 20:55 |
| gnarface | blackbox won't but almost has no features | 20:55 |
| gnarface | enlightenment is very versatile and won't force it strictly, but i can't claim it hasn't still caused trouble by trying | 20:56 |
| gnarface | xfce is the most popular around here, and will probably be the one you can get the most support for | 20:56 |
| Wonka | https://social.bitfolk.com/@grifferz/111785869492581529 | 22:17 |
| Wonka | »The latest release of Linux PAM depends upon systemd-logind because utmp is not y2038-safe. | 22:18 |
| Wonka | So if anyone in the Linux world has a problem with that, they have about 14 years to come up with a fix for utmp or else they will be using systemd and loving every minute of it.« | 22:18 |
| nemo | Wonka: huh... wouldn't that impact devuan much sooner? if latest release requires it, presumably once debian marks that as stable? | 22:24 |
| Wonka | I guess so... | 22:32 |
| fsmithred | or maybe the changes can be ported to elogind | 22:38 |
| rwp | I used to think PAM was a pretty reasonable thing. I still think PAM is a pretty reasonable thing. But the people who have weaponized PAM have made me consider them truly sociopathic people. | 22:55 |
| nemo | hm " | 22:55 |
| nemo | Thorsten suggestion would to replace wtmp with journald, which would require | 22:55 |
| nemo | some code rewrite since is has a different ABI. But I think this is the best | 22:55 |
| nemo | way to fix it. | 22:55 |
| nemo | oops. sorry | 22:55 |
| nemo | I didn't realise that had line breaks. should have checked. | 22:55 |
| nemo | that was reading the response to Wonka's post which *seemed* optimistic at first | 22:55 |
| rwp | This utmp issue reads to me to be a "tempest in a teacup" issue at the very worst. | 22:59 |
| rwp | And though I run who quite often on multi-user systems with other users logged in I just can't see how I would be mortally wounded by seeing an incorrect date listed, in the worst case that it is now 15 years from now and I am still running an unpatched OS from now in that time then. | 23:01 |
| rwp | https://github.com/linux-pam/linux-pam/releases/tag/v1.5.3 says "configure: added --enable-logind option to use logind instead of utmp in pam_issue and pam_timestamp/ | 23:04 |
| nemo | https://inbox.sourceware.org/libc-alpha/20230801204618.GA415@suse.com/ "this is what we did already with openSUSE Tumbleweed and MicroOS and nobody noticed so far" | 23:04 |
| nemo | that sounds promising | 23:04 |
| nemo | (for "replace wtmp with (pam_)wtmpdb") | 23:05 |
| rwp | It sounds like upstream is not quite so hard lined as the social posting suggests. | 23:06 |
| nemo | oh. even better.. "> It could just re-interpret the timestamp field as an unsigned number. >> Thanks for suggesting that. Although it a hack, it's likely better than the hack that was already in Gnulib, so I installed the attached patch into Gnulib." | 23:06 |
| nemo | that doesn't sound too bad.. | 23:06 |
| nemo | I wonder if it is abusable | 23:06 |
| nemo | heh. "This hack stops working at 2106-02-07 06:28:16 UTC." | 23:07 |
| rwp | The hard-liners will insist that if it doesn't handle perfectly time in a relativist reference frame referenced from countries prior to the adoption of the Gregorian in regions opposing the pope and considering the changing rotational rate of the plent then anyone suggesting it should be vilified. | 23:12 |
| nemo | rwp: so... worst case, debian packages with --enable-logind and devuan has yet another package to maintain with that flag turned off... | 23:13 |
| rwp | I think so. But in the meantime it seems that elogind would handle it. And that is always the solution for other things. So... Probably elogind for the moment. | 23:15 |
| rwp | *And that is **already** the solution for other things. (my bad typing) | 23:15 |
| rwp | It's definitely not always the solution. | 23:15 |
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