| fsmithred | gordonDrogon, Application Menu, Settings, Desktop, Menus, check "Include applications menu on desktop right-click." | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| fsmithred | Maybe, maybe not. When I un-check that box, then desktop-menu/show goes to false. | 00:04 |
| al1r4d | why devuan excalibur doesnt have simplescreenrecorder in the repo? | 02:57 |
| gnarface | probably because debian doesn't have it? | 03:05 |
| n4dir | it is in sid, so you could go for mixed testing/unstable | 03:07 |
| gnarface | i would just try to backport it myself cleanly, and probably discover in the process why it's not there | 03:08 |
| n4dir | if it is in unstable i wouldn't bother backporting it | 03:09 |
| gnarface | technically that's against the rules, though between testing and unstable you'll usually get away with it | 03:10 |
| n4dir | not usually, it even is the recommended way | 03:12 |
| gordonDrogon | fsmithred, thanks - if only I could get to the menu in the first place.. | 09:05 |
| gordonDrogon | I managed to 'fix' it - by launching xfce4-settings-manager from an xterm and ticking the option to enable the desktop menu. This it 'unticked' on an upgrade is beyond my ken but this is the sort of thing that puts people off "Linux" for life... | 09:27 |
| gordonDrogon | and the one thing I still can't fix is Ctrl-UpArrow to make a window full height. that stopped working but I'm sure it's an xfce issue not devuan. | 09:28 |
| gordonDrogon | and now video playback in both vlc and youtube is horribly choppy and sound is laggy and horrible too. wish I've never bothered to upgrade now. | 11:35 |
| gnarface | driver issue again? | 11:40 |
| gnarface | was this nvidia or...? | 11:40 |
| gnarface | upi | 11:40 |
| gnarface | *you're | 11:40 |
| gnarface | probably missing a driver or a library | 11:40 |
| gnarface | or both | 11:40 |
| gordonDrogon | not used nvidia for well over a year. I removed the card. | 11:42 |
| gordonDrogon | hardware hasn't changed since the upgrade last night. | 11:42 |
| gordonDrogon | it's a bog-standard Dell desktop PC thing. | 11:42 |
| gordonDrogon | minecraft sound output is laggy too. | 11:43 |
| gnarface | remove the nvidia packages and then make sure you have all the mesa packages | 11:45 |
| gordonDrogon | dpkg -l | fgrep nvidia | 11:45 |
| gordonDrogon | --- nothing | 11:45 |
| gnarface | hmm | 11:45 |
| gnarface | how about for mesa? | 11:45 |
| gordonDrogon | 11 packages. | 11:45 |
| gnarface | is libgl1-mesa-glx among them? | 11:46 |
| gordonDrogon | no. | 11:47 |
| gnarface | definitely missing at least 1 package then | 11:48 |
| gordonDrogon | libgl1-mesa-glx - transitional dummy package | 11:48 |
| gnarface | i have 18 here, 27 if you count the duplicates for multi-arch | 11:48 |
| gnarface | if it's intel you might also need i965-va-driver, intel-media-va-driver, and libvdpau-va-gl1 | 11:50 |
| gnarface | check for mesa-va-drivers too | 11:50 |
| gnarface | and mesa-vdpau-drivers | 11:50 |
| gordonDrogon | yes, intel. | 11:50 |
| gnarface | libgl1-mesa-dri, libglx-mesa0, libglu1-mesa, libglapi-mesa... | 11:51 |
| gnarface | there's a bunch, i dunno if you need all of them | 11:52 |
| gordonDrogon | seem to have them. | 11:52 |
| gnarface | libosmesa6? | 11:53 |
| gnarface | mesa-vulkan-drivers? | 11:53 |
| gnarface | libopenvg1-mesa? | 11:54 |
| gnarface | libegl-mesa0? | 11:54 |
| gnarface | libd3dadapter9-mesa? | 11:54 |
| gnarface | mesa-utils | 11:54 |
| gnarface | ? | 11:54 |
| gordonDrogon | seem to have them. maybe needs a reboot? | 11:55 |
| gnarface | yes | 11:55 |
| gordonDrogon | video is still janky in vlc with no audio. | 11:55 |
| gnarface | there's some possibility you might have to switch xorg drivers too | 11:55 |
| gnarface | audio probably a separate problem | 11:55 |
| gordonDrogon | *sigh* no real change. | 11:59 |
| gordonDrogon | looks like vlc is doing software decoding - pegs a cpu at 100% | 11:59 |
| gordonDrogon | and people ask me why I never upgrade... | 11:59 |
| test-amarsh04 | I try to compare logs (dmesg, what packages were changed...) to identify likely causes of issues when upgrading packages | 12:05 |
| test-amarsh04 | had more than enough pain with usrmerge and t64 | 12:05 |
| gordonDrogon | I tend to think that if people want me to use their distro then they'll make it work. | 12:06 |
| gordonDrogon | I should know better after ~30 years of using Linux though. | 12:06 |
| test-amarsh04 | only been using Linux for just under 20 years myself | 12:07 |
| gordonDrogon | don't get old and bitterly twisted is my suggestion.. | 12:07 |
| gordonDrogon | I upgraded my laptop a few weeks back which went well enough for my to risk my desktop. | 12:08 |
| gordonDrogon | laptop plays video, etc. ok and all my exiting tools continue to work (well, mostly) | 12:08 |
| gordonDrogon | I'm going to have to recompile a few compilers here but I sort of expected that - I just naively assumed it might just work. | 12:09 |
| gordonDrogon | once upon a tim I used to even compile my own kernels. not done that for a decade or so.. | 12:09 |
| test-amarsh04 | I've generally run unstable, but have had to hold back mesa* packages due to problems that seem to be peculiar to a few Radeon r600 variants | 12:09 |
| test-amarsh04 | I compile my own kernels all the time | 12:10 |
| gordonDrogon | I got lazy. | 12:10 |
| gordonDrogon | desktop is a fairly boring Dell. it's worked well for a good few years now,. | 12:10 |
| test-amarsh04 | after the motherboard died I'm running an old replacement motherboard with an AMD APU | 12:11 |
| gordonDrogon | I used to prefer AMD and until now have almost always built my own with ASUS mobos too. | 12:12 |
| test-amarsh04 | clocks faster than the old arrangement and uses less power | 12:12 |
| gordonDrogon | maybe I'm just getting older.. | 12:12 |
| gordonDrogon | I wonder if a reinstall from scratch might help. | 12:14 |
| gordonDrogon | 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 06) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller]) | 12:15 |
| test-amarsh04 | I like to try a lot harder, my older pc has never had a re-install of Linux, been upgraded and transfered to new hardware from a Debian install in June 2004 | 12:15 |
| gordonDrogon | I'd been debian since day 1. | 12:15 |
| gordonDrogon | I did a fresh install on this one wen I got it and copied $HOME over to it. | 12:16 |
| test-amarsh04 | "newer" pc had a re-insall very early due to a loose SATA cable corrupting things | 12:16 |
| test-amarsh04 | re-install | 12:16 |
| gordonDrogon | I started with Devuan Jessie. | 12:17 |
| test-amarsh04 | back in around 2002 work paid for us to have an in-house Linux course and I liked how Debian could upgrade libc6 without a reboot | 12:18 |
| gordonDrogon | I've been self employed for 20+ years now. | 12:20 |
| gordonDrogon | I can't work this out. I think I need to re-install. I jsut don't have time now. | 12:38 |
| gordonDrogon | but here's the thing - If I have to reinstall then why should I stick to a distro that's now let me down and caused me a lot of pain and wasted time. | 12:38 |
| gordonDrogon | but then - maybe this is normal now, I just don't know. | 12:38 |
| CueXXIII | gordonDrogon: what does glxinfo | grep -C4 "renderer string" say? | 12:42 |
| gordonDrogon | many lines. which one do yo want? | 12:42 |
| CueXXIII | the first four-ish starting with OpenGL | 12:43 |
| gordonDrogon | https://unicorn.drogon.net/x1.txt | 12:43 |
| CueXXIII | ok, looks like opengl should work | 12:44 |
| gordonDrogon | so I need to tell firefox and vlc to use opengl or somehow make that the default. | 12:44 |
| gnarface | that's what libvdpau-va-gl1 was for, i thought | 12:46 |
| CueXXIII | xvinfo | grep -A3 Adaptor also adaptors with PutImage support? | 12:46 |
| gnarface | make sure you don't have that cisco h264 plugin enabled in firefox | 12:46 |
| gordonDrogon | Adaptor #0: "GLAMOR Textured Video" | 12:46 |
| CueXXIII | oh, in firefox you can look at about:support, what if found for Graphics | 12:46 |
| gordonDrogon | libvdpau-va-gl1 is installed. | 12:47 |
| gnarface | at least with mplayer, you also have to use specific command-line options so get gets used | 12:47 |
| CueXXIII | i think mpv should pick up the best output - mplayer isn't really developed anymore… | 12:48 |
| gordonDrogon | I use vlc. | 12:48 |
| gnarface | mplayer still might be a useful test | 12:48 |
| gnarface | mpv might be too | 12:49 |
| CueXXIII | do you have output set to automatic? | 12:49 |
| Xenguy | mpv FTW | 12:49 |
| CueXXIII | in vlc | 12:49 |
| Xenguy | learn the hotkeys | 12:50 |
| gordonDrogon | mplayer playd about 3-4 sconds then stopped. static frame. sound from usb was ok but when I switched to hdmi no sound. | 12:50 |
| CueXXIII | Xenguy: or make your own hotkeys :D | 12:50 |
| Xenguy | CueXXIII, Doable but why? | 12:50 |
| CueXXIII | gordonDrogon: the output from mplayer would be interesting | 12:51 |
| Xenguy | But a great program, I never looked back (used to use VLC) | 12:51 |
| gordonDrogon | **** Your system is too SLOW to play this! **** | 12:51 |
| gnarface | gordonDrogon: try mplayer with mplayer -cache 8192 -noconsolecontrols -ao alsa -vo vdpau:sharpen=0,denoise=1,deint=3,hqscaling:1 -vc ffmpeg12vdpau,ffwmv3vdpau,ffvc1vdpau,ffhevcvdpau,ffh264vdpau,ffodivxvdpau -framedrop [filename] | 12:51 |
| CueXXIII | that's the ONLY line? | 12:51 |
| gordonDrogon | gret. it's an 8-core i7 thing. | 12:51 |
| Xenguy | yikes | 12:51 |
| gordonDrogon | lots of lines but that seemed relevant. | 12:51 |
| CueXXIII | that line is not relevant | 12:51 |
| gnarface | *sigh* red herring, mplayer says that for audio configuration problems | 12:51 |
| CueXXIII | it is an assumption of mplayer, that might be false | 12:52 |
| gordonDrogon | that command gives me a black screen with audio out the headphones (usb) no audio from hdmi. | 12:52 |
| gordonDrogon | https://unicorn.drogon.net/x2.txt | 12:53 |
| gnarface | gordonDrogon: try the same thing without ":sharpen=0,denoise=1,deint=3,hqscaling:1" | 12:53 |
| gordonDrogon | this is not end-user friendly at all. Really - I expected this 25 years ago in the early days of Linux. Not today. | 12:54 |
| gordonDrogon | no. sorry. I'm giving up at this point. 25 years ago I was a developer. Today I'm a user. this is hostile and just not working. | 12:54 |
| gnarface | *sigh* | 12:54 |
| gordonDrogon | I'm going to go for a ride on my horse and if I have time when I get home I'll try a re-instal. | 12:55 |
| CueXXIII | gordonDrogon: try -vo gpu, that should work better with newer drivers - at least in mpv it does | 12:55 |
| gnarface | i still want to know what's wrong with it and i still suspect missing package | 12:55 |
| gordonDrogon | maybe. | 12:55 |
| gnarface | the output of vdpauinfo and vainfo might be informative | 12:55 |
| gnarface | that mplayer command might have only black screened because i guessed the wrong settings, and the audio coming out the wrong thing is expected default behavior and easy to fix.. | 12:56 |
| gnarface | you never said whether you had the cisco h264 plugin enabled in firefox or not | 12:57 |
| gordonDrogon | https://unicorn.drogon.net/vdpauinfo.txt | 12:57 |
| gordonDrogon | I've no idea if it's enabled or not - why should I? It worked before.. | 12:57 |
| gordonDrogon | https://unicorn.drogon.net/vainfo.txt | 12:58 |
| gordonDrogon | it's not just firefox - it's minecraft, vlc, mplayer, etc. | 12:58 |
| gnarface | can you please just check instead of being snarky? that doesn't help | 12:58 |
| gordonDrogon | sorry. I'm frustrated - not deliberately snarky. | 12:59 |
| gnarface | vdpauinfo confirms your driver supports no vdpau features, so removing just the substring ":sharpen=0,denoise=1,deint=3,hqscaling:1" from the command i gave you would be useful... i also note it supports only a few h264 variants and nothing else in vdpau mode | 13:00 |
| gordonDrogon | yes, it's installed in firefox. | 13:00 |
| gnarface | it's installed by default | 13:00 |
| gnarface | make sure it's disabled though | 13:01 |
| gnarface | vainfo looks okay i think but i'm less sure with that one... changing to the "intel" xorg driver from the new default "modesetting" sometimes helps with that | 13:01 |
| gordonDrogon | removing that substring gives me a black screen. | 13:02 |
| gnarface | run this: "mplayer -vo help" | 13:02 |
| gnarface | try some other stuff on the list besides vdpau | 13:02 |
| gordonDrogon | https://unicorn.drogon.net/mplayer.txt | 13:03 |
| gnarface | not because i'm trying to convert you to mplayer, but because what works and what doesn't will tell you something about what's broken | 13:03 |
| gordonDrogon | https://unicorn.drogon.net/mplayer-help.txt | 13:03 |
| gnarface | no, don't show it to me | 13:03 |
| gnarface | try those | 13:04 |
| gnarface | particularly try, sdl, x11, gl, xv, ..... | 13:04 |
| gnarface | maybe gl_nosw | 13:04 |
| gnarface | and sorry, ditch "-vc ffmpeg12vdpau,ffwmv3vdpau,ffvc1vdpau,ffhevcvdpau,ffh264vdpau,ffodivxvdpau" now for those tests | 13:04 |
| gnarface | that was just something i was using on my AMD card and may have been useless to you to begin with | 13:05 |
| gnarface | in fact, try vdpau even again without those | 13:05 |
| gordonDrogon | none work. | 13:06 |
| gordonDrogon | some open a little window (e.g. aa) then it gives up. | 13:06 |
| gnarface | damn, usually sdl at least works | 13:07 |
| gnarface | do you not have SDL installed? | 13:07 |
| gordonDrogon | usually. I have an application that uses SDL (1.2) | 13:07 |
| gnarface | i would try switching the xorg driver to the intel one to see if it's any different | 13:08 |
| gordonDrogon | The selected video_out device is incompatible with this codec. | 13:08 |
| gordonDrogon | (with SDL) | 13:08 |
| gnarface | i wonder what could have changed | 13:08 |
| gnarface | can you check your apt log and see what was removed in the update? | 13:08 |
| gordonDrogon | ok, sdl worked for 3-4 seconds withou the -vc flags, then it stopped. | 13:09 |
| gnarface | hmm | 13:09 |
| gnarface | very odd | 13:09 |
| gordonDrogon | sadly no more time right now. I must go & see my horse, then I'm away tomorow morning until tues evening. | 13:10 |
| gordonDrogon | thanks for all your help so far. | 13:11 |
| fsmithred | refracta | 13:13 |
| fsmithred | oops, wrong window | 13:13 |
| gordonDrogon | my horse said neigh chance as the weather is shite, and I've decided to do a re-install from scratch, so here goes ... | 14:37 |
| gnarface | dpm | 14:38 |
| gnarface | don't use the live installer | 14:38 |
| gnarface | iirc, last person who had this problem a couple days ago it was caused by an upgrade from the chimaera live installer | 14:39 |
| gnarface | i think there was someone else who had the same problem a day or two before that with a different fix, but i forget what it was | 14:39 |
| gnarface | kernel update maybe | 14:40 |
| gnarface | not sure | 14:40 |
| gnarface | (the live installer had installed a bunch of nouveau stuff for a intel video card but missed libgl1-mesa-glx) | 14:41 |
| gordonDrogon | I've always used netinst - since debian first introduced it. | 14:42 |
| gordonDrogon | trying to find a usb stick to copy it to now .. hmm. I used to have many.. | 14:43 |
| gnarface | do you usually use pulseaudio? | 14:44 |
| gordonDrogon | yes | 14:44 |
| gnarface | if you use pulseaudio and it's working right, you should be able to fix that alsa output device issue just by running pavucontrol and setting the right outputs | 14:44 |
| gnarface | separate to the video problem, during your upgrade pulseaudio probably got hosed somehow | 14:45 |
| gordonDrogon | audio worked ok over usb (headphones). | 14:45 |
| gnarface | maybe pulseaudio got removed, or maybe the cached config just got hosed | 14:45 |
| gnarface | maybe running pavucontrol again would have let you fix it | 14:45 |
| gnarface | maybe pavucontrol was missing entirely | 14:46 |
| gnarface | at this point i could only speculate, but normal behavior without pulseaudio would be for alsa to just default to whichever device it finds first unless you've customized your ~/.asoundrc | 14:46 |
| gnarface | (and if you have more than one device it's possible for them to change order on boot) | 14:46 |
| gordonDrogon | pavucontrol is there and I was using to to switch between hdmi & usb. | 14:47 |
| gnarface | ah, so it's fine then? | 14:47 |
| gordonDrogon | don't think I've used alsa for many years now. not intentionally that is. | 14:48 |
| gordonDrogon | usb audio with minecraft is perfect - everything is in sync, but switching to hdmi audio is laggy - blocks break then half a second later you get the noise. | 14:48 |
| gordonDrogon | minecraft seems no worse than before but I have a very vanilla install. | 14:49 |
| gordonDrogon | found a 1Gb lego brich USB drive.. | 14:50 |
| gordonDrogon | meanwhile, appropos of another world, Liam at pcbway wants to sponsor me... | 14:51 |
| gordonDrogon | I'll try booting the usb on my laptop first, but I have a lot of extra backing up to do before I tackle the desktop. | 14:54 |
| gordonDrogon | worked fine. | 14:56 |
| gordonDrogon | gone through the logs again - only thing I can find is errors about a missing glx group when I un-installed the nvidia stuff | 15:04 |
| gordonDrogon | however there is no glx group on laptop either. | 15:04 |
| gordonDrogon | waiting for backups to work, so decided to go through laptops packages and desktops and see what the differences are. they are different (to be expcted) but this is odd: | 15:56 |
| gordonDrogon | on laptop: apt-cache search libx265 finds -199 -192 -95 but the same command on desktop doesn't list -95. | 15:57 |
| gordonDrogon | laptop has -95 installed. | 15:57 |
| CueXXIII | probably an old version | 16:04 |
| CueXXIII | apt-cache also indexes installed packages, even when they are no longer in any remote repository - try apt-cache policy libx265-95 | 16:05 |
| CueXXIII | you should only see a 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status as available in the version table | 16:06 |
| gordonDrogon | *** 2.1-2+b2 100 | 16:06 |
| gordonDrogon | 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status | 16:06 |
| gordonDrogon | so that explains that one. | 16:07 |
| gordonDrogon | well there's nothing leaping out at me comparing the 2 package lists side by side. | 16:10 |
| gordonDrogon | and at least its given me a list of all the extra stuff I'll need to re-install when I do a complete wipe & restart. | 16:13 |
| gordonDrogon | my fear is that it's actually going to be some legacy thing lurking in a dot-file or in .config rather than a system wide thing. | 16:28 |
| CueXXIII | gordonDrogon: that is easy to test - just create a new user and see what works and what not | 16:32 |
| gordonDrogon | oh, intersting idead. | 16:48 |
| gordonDrogon | well that was interesting. | 16:56 |
| gordonDrogon | first to see what a default xfce4 looks like (eww, my eyes - the googles do noghing!) but also it's doing the same thing. | 16:56 |
| gordonDrogon | I played a video with vlc - works fine with usb headphones, but stutters badly with trying to use hdmi audio. Same for youtube (the adverts - ugh!) | 16:57 |
| gordonDrogon | youtube actually gives up and goes into stalled mode too with the spinning circle thing like its trying to buffer... | 16:58 |
| gordonDrogon | hm. brb. | 17:10 |
| gordonDrogon | that didn't work. | 17:18 |
| gordonDrogon | changed to the 2nd display port output - no change. checked the bios settings for audio - there aren't any (on/off) | 17:19 |
| gordonDrogon | narrowed it down - a little. audio to USB is fine. audio to hDMI causes the video to play back at about double speed then it often gives up (youtube). vlc tries harder but eventually gives up. | 17:26 |
| gordonDrogon | searching for this gives many replies from dump pulse and go with pipewire to switch output port (which I tried) | 17:27 |
| rustyaxe | Dumping pulse for pipewire indeed often solves many issues or at least makes them more managable. I'm kinda hopeful pulse will die out sooner rather than later. | 17:30 |
| gordonDrogon | reading another thread suggests the issue remains but less-so. | 17:31 |
| gordonDrogon | (with pipewire) | 17:31 |
| gordonDrogon | I wonder if trying a "live" devuan might help narrow it down. | 17:32 |
| gordonDrogon | audio through the on-board speaker works too - which somewhat surprised me! | 17:39 |
| buZz | pipewire <3 <3 <3 | 17:49 |
| buZz | i kinda wonder if the 'hmdi audio is 2x faster' is a effect of a 120hz hdmi monitor or something | 17:49 |
| gordonDrogon | Fixed it. | 17:50 |
| gordonDrogon | or SOLVED! as they might say. | 17:51 |
| buZz | \o what was it? | 17:51 |
| gordonDrogon | I added this in my lilo.conf: append="intel_iommu=on,igfx_off" | 17:51 |
| buZz | :O | 17:51 |
| gordonDrogon | (other bootloaders are available, so I understand) | 17:51 |
| buZz | internal gfx was causing it? | 17:51 |
| gordonDrogon | I guess. | 17:51 |
| buZz | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 17:52 |
| buZz | :) | 17:52 |
| gordonDrogon | found this at the end of this forum post: | 17:52 |
| gordonDrogon | https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=742931#p742931 | 17:52 |
| CueXXIII | ah, pipewire can act as a jack sink, in pulseaudio you'd have to configure that the other way around… | 17:52 |
| buZz | CueXXIII: yeah, pipewire is -amazing- | 17:53 |
| gordonDrogon | it wouldn't have fixed this. | 17:53 |
| buZz | pipewire can do 'full jack' anyway | 17:53 |
| gordonDrogon | and I suspect a complete re-install wouldn't have fixed it either. | 17:53 |
| buZz | gordonDrogon: xeon E3 v4? :D | 17:53 |
| CueXXIII | since some music programs seem only to support jack… | 17:53 |
| buZz | CueXXIII: indeed, most that require accurate timing | 17:54 |
| buZz | pipewire handles it better, at lower cpu usage :D | 17:54 |
| gordonDrogon | yes, that's what I get: | 17:54 |
| gordonDrogon | 00:03.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor HD Audio Controller (rev 06) | 17:54 |
| gordonDrogon | 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 8 Series/C220 Series Chipset High Definition Audio Controller (rev 04) | 17:54 |
| buZz | 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 8 Series/C220 Series Chipset High Definition Audio Controller (rev 05) | 17:55 |
| buZz | :) | 17:55 |
| buZz | i disabled onboard gpu though | 17:55 |
| buZz | in bios | 17:55 |
| gordonDrogon | it's a little cheap Dell desktop thing. | 17:55 |
| buZz | 01:00.1 Audio device: NVIDIA Corporation GP106 High Definition Audio Controller (rev a1) | 17:55 |
| gordonDrogon | it came with an nvidia GPU but I didn't like it so removed it way back. | 17:55 |
| CueXXIII | i wanted to look at supercollider (audio "programming" ide), but that only does jack; and i don't need realtime in programming audio | 17:56 |
| buZz | CueXXIII: i use PureData | 17:56 |
| gordonDrogon | yotube, vlc and openshot are just about all I use. | 17:56 |
| gordonDrogon | I don't really have a library of music | 17:56 |
| CueXXIII | buZz: is it turing-complete? | 17:56 |
| buZz | CueXXIII: i dont know nor how it would matter | 17:57 |
| gordonDrogon | now what on earth was I doing last night before I decided to put myself through upgrade hell... | 17:57 |
| buZz | ah, internet suggests 'yes' | 17:57 |
| buZz | but, so is 'pen and paper' | 17:57 |
| buZz | so really no clue why it matters | 17:57 |
| CueXXIII | just to do anything unrelated to audio in it and then translate it into audio | 17:58 |
| gordonDrogon | wish I could turn the fan off in my laptop - every upgrade seems to make the baterys last less and less.. | 17:58 |
| buZz | CueXXIII: yes, thats what gay matheticians do? | 17:58 |
| buZz | CueXXIII: i dont think you know what it means :P | 17:58 |
| CueXXIII | probably xD | 17:58 |
| buZz | gordonDrogon: stick a pencil into it | 17:59 |
| buZz | :D | 17:59 |
| gordonDrogon | it's not reachable from the outside (I've had it in bits to make sure it was clean, etc.) | 17:59 |
| gordonDrogon | it goes into rocket mode when I do anything remotely active... | 17:59 |
| CueXXIII | nah, i know what turing complete meansm and that you only need a few control structures to have a turing complete language | 17:59 |
| buZz | CueXXIII: basically 'a if statement' | 18:00 |
| buZz | its pretty nonsense to focus on for a tool | 18:00 |
| buZz | unless you're doing compscience studies | 18:00 |
| buZz | outside of education, nobody really cares | 18:00 |
| buZz | its not about 'the featurelist' , its about what you can do with it | 18:00 |
| CueXXIII | what if i want to sonificate the aclkemann function, or a mandelbrot set? | 18:01 |
| CueXXIII | -l | 18:01 |
| buZz | go ahead | 18:01 |
| CueXXIII | ackermann | 18:01 |
| gordonDrogon | I wrote one a while back... Called it Apricot ... A PRogramable Interactive Calculate O Tron... | 18:01 |
| CueXXIII | buZz: but thanks, now i have 2 programs to look into :) | 18:02 |
| gordonDrogon | it's somewhat OT for here though, but https://projects.drogon.net/apricot/ | 18:03 |
| buZz | puredata is basically 'free MaxMSP' by the same dev | 18:03 |
| gordonDrogon | probably OT everywhere, but that's personal little projects for you. | 18:03 |
| buZz | also, puredata is in debian's repo ;) | 18:05 |
| buZz | neither supercollider nor maxmsp are | 18:05 |
| CueXXIII | supercollider is in debian, too | 18:06 |
| buZz | ah, til | 18:10 |
| buZz | ah yeah, no, this isnt something for me :) *deinstalls* | 18:13 |
| miojo | https://mirror.belltower.us/devuan/devuan_daedalus/installer-iso/devuan_daedalus_5.0.1_amd64_desktop.iso | 19:44 |
| miojo | best mirror for me so far | 19:44 |
| miojo | at least for getting it from brazil (Alagoas state) | 19:45 |
| miojo | :) | 19:45 |
| gnarface | gordonDrogon: looks familiar now that i'm seeing it again, but i never would have guessed that. good thing you didn't reinstall... | 22:00 |
| gnarface | i had the vague idea it could be a kernel regression but i wouldn't have connected that to the memory of seeing these command-line options before | 22:02 |
| gnarface | not important now i suppose, but the "glx" group the nvidia drivers were talking about might have actually been called "video" | 22:03 |
| gnarface | (usually i the past it did not need that because Xorg ran suid root but maybe that's changed now even for the last hold-out) | 22:03 |
| gordonDrogon | gnarface, thanks. | 22:54 |
| gnarface | gordonDrogon: incidentally, if the bug those command-line options are suppressing was ever actually fixed in a later kernel, there's a chance of the fix being in the kernel version in daedalus-backports | 22:56 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure if it's worth actually seeking | 22:57 |
| gnarface | it's not clear what you're actually giving up by setting those options | 22:57 |
| gordonDrogon | I've always valued the stability of debian/devuan and try hard to not use backports, etc. | 22:57 |
| gnarface | ah, well i don't blame you | 22:58 |
| gordonDrogon | even though I took a lot of flak for it when building servers with debian... | 22:58 |
| gordonDrogon | but they "just worked" when the engineers were always chasing the latest Win or Ubuntu on their desktops. | 22:58 |
| gordonDrogon | but I'ev no idea what that's fixing either, other than to make audio work correctly, so I'm happy. There are several other things that still don't work, but they are off my own making - just some development tools I need to re-compile now. | 23:00 |
| gordonDrogon | but that can wait. | 23:00 |
| gordonDrogon | and all because I wanted a newer libc.. | 23:00 |
| gnarface | heh, well it happens to the best ofus | 23:01 |
| gordonDrogon | now actually thinking of making the jump to another tool rather than use the upgraded version of the current one which demanded a libc > than Devuan Beowulf... | 23:02 |
| gordonDrogon | hard to change when you have 12+ years of 'muscle memory' though. | 23:03 |
| gnarface | the daedalus upgrade has been mostly painless here on this machine because i got smart finally and went with AMD graphics, but the machine that still has a nvidia card of course fell flat on its face due to a utterly unforgivable (and recurring!) kernel module dkms auto-build failure that had been introduced into the main stable repo not 12 hours earlier and had to be hand-held back to the previous kernel version | 23:04 |
| gordonDrogon | not sure why I upgraded the hardware when I did - some 5 years ago now I think. Hm. wonder how to tell - it's all a bit vague. | 23:05 |
| gnarface | find the datestamps in your oldest log files maybe? | 23:06 |
| gordonDrogon | I don't keep then that long, but I checked the power on time for the drive 30646 hours - about 3.6 years. | 23:07 |
| gnarface | hmm, maybe you're not really giving anything up with those new kernel command-line parameters | 23:08 |
| gordonDrogon | ah: there is a file in ~root Aug 8 2020 | 23:08 |
| gordonDrogon | it's the script I used to copy data from it's predecessor. | 23:08 |
| gnarface | keep in mind some files from packages may have datestamps from before the actaul install | 23:08 |
| rwp | Look at the dates on the /var/log/installer/* files? | 23:08 |
| gordonDrogon | same date: Aug 8 2020 | 23:09 |
| gnarface | well there you are | 23:09 |
| gordonDrogon | it was a refurbished system too. | 23:09 |
| gordonDrogon | from a nice place in the UK: https://www.bargainhardware.co.uk/ | 23:10 |
| gnarface | i found a reference to that intel_iommu flag: https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.html | 23:10 |
| gnarface | seems like it's not really disabling anything so much as setting a more appropriate default config for the hardware | 23:11 |
| gnarface | so that's probably fine | 23:11 |
| gnarface | "By default, gfx is mapped as normal device. If a gfx device has a dedicated DMAR unit, the DMAR unit is bypassed by not enabling DMAR with this option." | 23:12 |
| gnarface | (IOMMU is your hardware virtual machine acceleration, FYI) | 23:12 |
| gordonDrogon | and the only virtual machine I have here is my own bytecode thing - it's hardly part of the hardware.. | 23:13 |
| gnarface | yea, this would be something you'd use with qemu -enable-kvm [...] | 23:14 |
| gnarface | worth figuring out how to do if you want to test other distros and operating systems | 23:15 |
| gordonDrogon | which I don't/won't do. | 23:15 |
| gordonDrogon | not now, anyway. | 23:15 |
| gordonDrogon | right bed time here, then up early, away sun/mon/tue then back to the fun... | 23:16 |
| gordonDrogon | thanks again | 23:16 |
| gnarface | no problem | 23:17 |
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