| ThadG | Hello, I am seeing some gui sluggishness and sometimes locking up and would like to have some pointers of where to look in logs or other places. My suspicion is device drivers but not 100% sure. | 00:16 |
|---|---|---|
| rwp | That's a very open ended question and suggestions can only be equally vague. | 00:17 |
| rwp | I most often see sluggish behavior when Firefox/Chromium are hogging all memory and tabs need to be closed to free up resources. | 00:17 |
| rwp | I also see sluggish behavior when DNS lookups are taking a moment to resolve and the application needs to wait for the answer. | 00:18 |
| rwp | I also see sluggish behavior when the I/O backplane has become saturated and reading data from storage is delayed in the pipeline. | 00:18 |
| rwp | For a specific program one can sometimes figure out what is happening by running strace against it and seeing if it is pausing on a specific thing. | 00:19 |
| ThadG | I see this yes, when I start Firefox it seems... it affects the whole system. And a likely culprit is indeed DNS lookups since I am in China, but happy to switch or verify DNS. | 00:20 |
| debdog | I had the case where the HDD (WD green) was going into power save mode and spinning it up sometimes caused micro-stutters. but that'd involve some programme requiring HDD access quite often. | 00:21 |
| debdog | back then WD provided a tool to modify the HDD's settings and I was able to set a different much hight time till spin down | 00:23 |
| debdog | s/hight/higher/ | 00:25 |
| rwp | Some of those green drives can have hdparm -B 254 to reduce the standby to increase latency to acceptable levels. | 00:29 |
| rwp | I have also seen cheaper SSDs degrade in performance over time. They will have sections which just read extremely slow. Doing a disk exercise on them (read passes, read-write passes) can sometimes restore the even good performance of when they were new. I blame bad cheap SSD firmware. | 00:31 |
| debdog | that's interesting. I haven't had much experience with SDDs, these read-write passes will erase the data, right? | 00:40 |
| rwp | If you write different data than what was there before then yes. But if you write the same data then it will be the same data. | 00:43 |
| rwp | I do not know of a good free software program which can read storage and keep track of the speed of each block to diagnose which blocks need to be "kicked" in order to perform better. | 00:44 |
| debdog | ok, I'll keep that in mind | 00:45 |
| rwp | Also if TRIM is being used then it will notify the SSD storage that unused blocks are unused. So one does not really want to mark those as used again by reading and writing everything. But... Given the presence of existing slowdown problems I will read and write every block on the SSD regardless. | 00:45 |
| rwp | I actually ran into a laptop just this last week that was exhibiting exactly this type of sluggish behavior. An old T42 with an IDE SSD. I did that to it and afterward it was suddenly able to boot fast again and run this dedicated application that it is used for. | 00:46 |
| debdog | which tool did you use to "read and write every block"? | 00:48 |
| rwp | I hesitate to mention "dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sda bs=1M" because it's just too scary. Safer to read the disk to backup and then write it back. | 00:51 |
| debdog | ok | 00:52 |
| ThadG | so suggestions to try to eliminate the locking up when Firefox is running? change DNS to see what happens? some logs to monitor? | 01:00 |
| rwp | If you suspect Firefox's use of DNS then check to see if DNS over HTTPS is set in the network settings. Try toggling it to the opposite setting and testing. | 01:10 |
| rwp | Given your location it might be the https used in DoH which is causing you problems. | 01:11 |
| gnarface | ThadG: after you've disabled dns over https in firefox you could try running a local caching name resolver to further reduce latency from dns queries | 01:39 |
| rwp | +1 for a local caching nameserver. I always run one. I traditionally "apt-get install bind9" but "apt-get install unbound" is the new rising star. | 01:51 |
| rwp | If we were not in #devuan I would need to caution that systemd-resolvd is buggy with regards to DNSSEC and should be avoided. | 01:52 |
| gnarface | dnsmasq does a good job too | 01:53 |
| gnarface | and can serve records from your /etc/hosts file | 01:53 |
| gnarface | (not that that's useful if you only have one computer, but there are situations where it can be useful, especially if you don't know how to setup bind9) | 01:54 |
| gnarface | personally though i'm a fan of bind9 | 01:55 |
| gnarface | ThadG: of course, if there is some sort of video driver problem it'd show up in your Xorg log | 02:39 |
| gnarface | it might not actually show up as an error necessarily, but we just need to know the model of your video device to know if it's picking the right driver | 02:40 |
| ThadG | all great suggestions. Thanks folks. I'll start with optimizing DNS first and running a caching nameserver. Then I'll move on checking Xorg logs. | 03:11 |
| ThadG | I need another suggestion on where I can read good authoritative information on setting up and running a VPN server stateside, as I have difficulty with a few paid VPN providers and figure I'd just run my own. Azure seems really good for me so far (I can access all management tools without worrying about network connectivity), and likely would | 03:39 |
| ThadG | just spinup and run the VPN server and a DoH resolver on that server. But I need some good guides and not finding suitable ones with an eye towards Devuan. Should I just flip the terms to "freebsd"? I'm still not familiar with the various networking commands and tooling in Devuan just yet other than systemd isn't there (and why I choose | 03:39 |
| ThadG | Devuan). | 03:39 |
| gnarface | ThadG: i was always a big fan of openvpn though it doesn't have as great of a rep as it used to... however it has a pretty thorough howto, not devuan specific but doesn't really need to be past just installing the devuan packages and skipping the build instructions | 04:30 |
| gnarface | i think these days it's recommended to use wireguard instead but i don't know where the documentation for that is | 04:30 |
| gnarface | (they have both an open source website and a commercial service portal; you find the howto on the open source website) | 04:31 |
| gnarface | some people get confused about this but you do not need to use their commercial service to use their software | 04:32 |
| gnarface | the thing about wireguard is that it's supposed to be a lot easier to setup | 04:35 |
| ThadG | reading wireguard...yes! loving it... simple like SSH, both sides assumed to have each others public keys. exactly what I need. | 04:36 |
| gnarface | openvpn configs can be hard to understand if you don't understand the underlying networking concepts | 04:36 |
| gnarface | i liked that it had lots of flexibility though, but the last time i had to use it was before wireguard existed | 04:36 |
| snork | WG lacks a lot of stuff that one might expect from a VPN solution. For example, there is no IP address allocation built in to WG. You are essentially building a static list of IPs as you build your WG network and there is not DHCP to help facilitate that. | 04:46 |
| snork | It also [as far as I know] does not have a way to add nodes without having the "hub" set its WG interface down and then back up again. It is UDP and shouldn't matter much, but there is a gap. | 04:47 |
| snork | WG also doesn't have any key distribution. There is a shared key setup that can be used but there is still no easy way to manage keys (not that OpenVPN excels at this either). | 04:48 |
| snork | The AllowedIPs setting is also very important on clients and the documentation really isn't terribly clear about how to design those kinds of statements for different desired outcomes. | 04:49 |
| onefang | For just a one to one VPN, some of that might not matter. | 04:49 |
| snork | Having said all that, WG is quick, requires little effort to config, and recovers well in "crappy or dynamic" network conditions. | 04:50 |
| snork | Definitely! A very small WG network can be really easy to smash together in no-time. CA? What's a CA? :-) | 04:50 |
| gnarface | yea, the two hardest parts of openvpn are probably understanding bridging vs routing setups and how to make config files for them, and having to maintain a CA just for the VPN | 05:04 |
| gnarface | i'd already had to deal with CAs for other purposes by that time so that helped me | 05:04 |
| snork | Using your favourite search engine to look for "openvpn in 5 minutes" should lead to a script that essentially sets up OpenVPN for you and deals with a lot of the CA side of things. If you don't mind a little "black magic" in your VPN then that is also an option. | 05:06 |
| * rrq uses rrqnet (for reasons :) | 05:13 | |
| Guest3560 | Hello there. I am looking for the pool2 and pool3 dvds and so on for offline install. For debian there is jigdo to create them. Sadly for devuan I could not find them. Where to find them? | 17:48 |
| gnarface | for ceres you mean? | 17:49 |
| Guest3560 | For daedalus or in general | 17:49 |
| gnarface | ah, i see, they are indeed not there | 17:50 |
| Guest3560 | Pool1 you can download simply but not other ones. Is there no way to get them? | 17:51 |
| gnarface | fsmithred, do you know? ^ | 17:51 |
| gnarface | my first instinct would be to check git.devuan.org but i couldn't tell you any specifics | 17:51 |
| gnarface | some build script stuff is on there | 17:52 |
| gnarface | the stuff that's not made with refracta tools | 17:52 |
| Guest3560 | https://www.devuan.org/gitlab-issues/devuan.devuan-project.23.html | 17:52 |
| Guest3560 | But it is old and nothing since then so topic was there it seems | 17:53 |
| gnarface | maybe it's a space or build time constraint | 17:54 |
| gnarface | or bandwidth? they do have to sync whatever is up there to all the other servers | 17:54 |
| gnarface | fsmithred would know | 17:55 |
| gnarface | hang around | 17:55 |
| Guest3560 | I will wait then. Thanks | 17:55 |
| fsmithred | There may not be any pool isos for daedalus until it's stable | 17:56 |
| fsmithred | i.e. released | 17:56 |
| fsmithred | Actually, there are pool isos for daedalus. | 17:58 |
| Guest3560 | But there aren't some for chimera either. | 17:59 |
| fsmithred | you want them for chimaera? | 17:59 |
| Guest3560 | Just the pool1 which is existing for deadalus too | 17:59 |
| Guest3560 | No for daedalus but where to find them for chimaera then? | 18:00 |
| fsmithred | https://mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/devuan_chimaera/installer-iso/ | 18:01 |
| fsmithred | https://mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/devuan_daedalus/installer-iso/ | 18:01 |
| Guest3560 | Yes, but only pool1, which exists for daedalus already. But there are over 20 dvds normaly and in debian you have to create them and download them over jido | 18:02 |
| fsmithred | Today is Monday. Check again later and there will probably be new installer isos and pool isos. | 18:02 |
| Guest3560 | https://www.debian.org/CD/jigdo-cd/ | 18:03 |
| Guest3560 | https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-dvd/ | 18:03 |
| fsmithred | what about it? | 18:03 |
| fsmithred | That's debian. | 18:03 |
| Guest3560 | Here you see DVD2 till DVD19. That should be there for Devuan too. | 18:04 |
| fsmithred | it's not and there aren't plans for that. | 18:04 |
| fsmithred | if you want all the software in the repo, download the debian set and pick carefully. | 18:04 |
| fsmithred | the pool isos contain stuff that ranks high on popularity contest but isn't in the installer dvd. | 18:05 |
| Guest3560 | Okay thanks. Maybe would be nice to habe them for devuan too. They are only templates as I know. | 18:05 |
| Guest3560 | Yes I know but for devuan they are missing maybe that could be changed | 18:07 |
| gnarface | well i suppose you could use the debian ones and just pin out systemd* | 18:08 |
| gnarface | then anything that's not gonna work will just refuse to install | 18:09 |
| fsmithred | pretty sure that would work fine | 18:09 |
| gnarface | but you might miss out on stuff that could be trivially rebuilt, which means you might want to get the sources as well... | 18:09 |
| fsmithred | Guest3560, do you know for sure that the software you want isn't on the devuan dvd? | 18:10 |
| fsmithred | time for lunch. bbl. | 18:11 |
| Guest3560 | Yes I want to have the full collection for offline backup. Some software is on DVD5 or DVD6. For Debian you also can buy the whole DVD collection for devuan it isn't possible. | 18:11 |
| Guest3560 | Will idle here if someone knows or can be added for devuan too in next time | 18:13 |
| behemot | hello guys, my job get necessary install mysql-workbench and i not get compile that, please help me .. | 18:34 |
| gnarface | should be in the repos | 18:36 |
| gnarface | "apt-get install mysql-workbench" | 18:36 |
| behemot | not working, package not found. | 18:38 |
| djph | isn't it a *deb package from the mysql / mariadb site? | 18:50 |
| behemot | no, the dependencies are broken, try to install it, but I couldn't, the system removes the package and it's like this in eternal lupe lol. | 19:00 |
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