| brocashelm | bookworm releases/released today (june 10). has there been a planned release date for daedalus yet? | 06:46 |
|---|---|---|
| hp | hello | 11:15 |
| Darahaas | hello | 11:17 |
| Darahaas | Anyone on down here ? | 11:17 |
| brocashelm | ask your question and wait for someone who can help | 11:20 |
| hacksenwerk | Hi. I want to delete my forum account. | 11:21 |
| Darahaas | Is there any ETA on Devuan based on debian 12 ? | 11:21 |
| hacksenwerk | rrq: fsmithred_: I had pm you yesterday about that but had to log out later. | 11:22 |
| brocashelm | i can't seem to find the dev1galaxy forum rules thread (could've sworn it was there at one point) | 11:23 |
| Xenguy | Darahaas, Well Debian needs to release first of course | 11:23 |
| Darahaas | it is releasing today right ? | 11:24 |
| brocashelm | yes for bookworm | 11:25 |
| brocashelm | no for daedalus (no tentative release date yet) | 11:25 |
| brocashelm | but, you can switch to daedalus right now if you wanted to | 11:25 |
| Xenguy | I thought the latest was scheduled for release June 10 yes | 11:25 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: Darahaas: yeah Daedalus runs fine, I use it now for some time. | 11:25 |
| brocashelm | devuan devs prefer to wait awhile so as to not be overshadowed by debian making the release around the same time | 11:25 |
| brocashelm | yeah, i switched to daedalus from ceres two months ago, and it's fine. no problems. i'm glad it's finally stabilizing | 11:26 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: lol imagine first comes devuan 12 and debian 12 follows up x) | 11:26 |
| hacksenwerk | Debian, a fork of Devuan but with sysetmd! Get your copy today. | 11:26 |
| Xenguy | Devuan follows Debian, correctly ; -) | 11:27 |
| hacksenwerk | Xenguy: yes I know ;) | 11:27 |
| brocashelm | i don't even have elogind running ;) | 11:27 |
| brocashelm | i was too lazy to reinstall | 11:28 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: Is there a forum rules thread? I can find only this: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=17 | 11:29 |
| brocashelm | oh, that's the one | 11:29 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: :) | 11:30 |
| brocashelm | most forums disallow account deletion requests (understandable if you've posted around a lot and it would screw up discussions) | 11:30 |
| brocashelm | but it seems like it's not addressed | 11:30 |
| xrogaan | bookworm releases today? | 11:31 |
| brocashelm | june 10, yes | 11:33 |
| brocashelm | live updates here: https://micronews.debian.org | 11:34 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: :) That would be one usecase for the European GDPR then. | 11:35 |
| hacksenwerk | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation | 11:35 |
| hacksenwerk | But I haven't posted anything on the forums anyway ;) | 11:37 |
| brocashelm | and they're not making money off your 0 post account :) | 11:38 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: I just don't need that account. | 11:39 |
| hacksenwerk | I'm a read-only user ;) | 11:39 |
| hacksenwerk | chmod 004 or something... | 11:39 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: But I hope not I have to go that way -> GDPR | 11:53 |
| xrogaan | hacksenwerk: technically, you could just replace your email with some other bogus one (or anonymized) and be done with it. | 12:26 |
| xrogaan | there's nothing tied to your account, no message history, nuthing beside the nickname and the email; | 12:26 |
| xrogaan | given that you didn't post anything. | 12:27 |
| hacksenwerk | xrogaan: I already did that, but that it is not enough. I want my account, and all data related to it, so also backups, to be deleted. | 12:28 |
| xrogaan | there are backups? | 12:29 |
| hacksenwerk | Further: things like changing mail are logged, so providers know that user with the email@new.org had once the email@old.org | 12:29 |
| hacksenwerk | xrogaan: Sure, else what would the project do in case of dataloss? | 12:30 |
| hacksenwerk | "Sorry community, ther server burned down, all threads and posts are gone forever." | 12:30 |
| hacksenwerk | Also coneection information are tied to am account. You can see that userfoobar always logs in with an ip-address of pool xy, with this user agent and so on. | 12:32 |
| hacksenwerk | So even if you haven't posted a single post, you created a bunch of data about you, that is stored on someone elses computer. | 12:33 |
| xrogaan | old emails aren't logged | 12:34 |
| xrogaan | it's a direct update of the database as soon as you confirm the new email. There's no copy done for admin purpose. | 12:35 |
| brocashelm | this sounds awfully paranoid | 12:35 |
| xrogaan | The line that does the job: $db->query('UPDATE '.$db->prefix.'users SET email=activate_string, activate_string=NULL, activate_key=NULL WHERE id='.$id) or error('Unable to update email address', __FILE__, __LINE__, $db->error()); | 12:36 |
| xrogaan | effectively, the new email never actually leaves the db. | 12:36 |
| xrogaan | You create a trace of yourself as soon as you connect to the internet. Can't ask to remove your ip from logs, which are ephemeral by the way. Though the ip is being tied to your account (need to verify that). | 12:38 |
| brocashelm | you are on a publicly logged irc channel and are more concerned about your forum account's e-mail address or ip address (libera can see this information every time you connect, btw) when you've never even posted on there | 12:38 |
| brocashelm | you can use a throwaway e-mail address and vpn/proxy/tor for your ip | 12:39 |
| xrogaan | IPs are logged per posts, they're not tied to an account. | 12:40 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: Oh wow how social to insult me! | 12:40 |
| xrogaan | so you never posted, IP isn't stored. | 12:40 |
| brocashelm | xrogaan: depends on the forum software | 12:40 |
| hacksenwerk | This isn't a discussion thing, my account will be deleted completely. | 12:40 |
| xrogaan | i'm looking at fluxbb, the software of note. | 12:41 |
| hacksenwerk | I decide where I put my data and where not. | 12:41 |
| brocashelm | hacksenwerk: how is pointing out a simple fact being "insulting"? | 12:41 |
| xrogaan | there is effectively no other data than your nickname. | 12:41 |
| hacksenwerk | I decide to share my data here pon irc. | 12:41 |
| xrogaan | aaah | 12:42 |
| xrogaan | I was on the old branch of fluxbb. | 12:43 |
| xrogaan | dammit | 12:43 |
| xrogaan | wait, no, it's the correct one. | 12:43 |
| xrogaan | fluxbb is just very old | 12:43 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: and by the way: I have no other choice when I want to talk to people on the internet. It is a design issue. A chat coul run on an onion service and force you to use tor and disallow registrations, don't use any javascript and add a simple refresh button next to the post form and thats it. | 12:43 |
| brocashelm | i run a forum of my own and have had requests to delete accounts, even though its rules say we won't honor that because we don't make any money off your data (i.e. no ads/trackers), and it would have the potential to ruin threads (because it's not like facebook/twitter/social media where discussions don't matter) | 12:43 |
| brocashelm | we're also not hosted in the eu, so we give the gdpr the middle finger anyway | 12:44 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: You have to be aware of the possibility, that the threads of you forum could be ruined. That's just the reality of hoe the laws are today. | 12:45 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: I think you don't understand how powerful the eu laws are. We live in a globalised world. | 12:46 |
| brocashelm | hacksenwerk: us deleting someone's account after like 500 posts around the forums WOULD be ruining the threads. again, gdpr can't do anything to us legally | 12:46 |
| hacksenwerk | Also it speaks for itself when you stick your middle finger to such great laws we have to fight for so amny years. | 12:46 |
| hacksenwerk | *many | 12:47 |
| * onefang wonders if there's a #devuan-bettergetalawyerson? | 12:47 | |
| xrogaan | So, what's so personal about the data stored on the forum db? | 12:48 |
| brocashelm | participation is voluntary. we don't make a dime off your "data". we're not hosted in the eu. YOU (the user) are the one who chooses to reveal that information | 12:48 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: Not everyone who wnat to have her or his account to be deleted would like to ruin "your" threads. There's also the possibility of anonymisation. gitlab does this for exmaple and guthub too I think. All posts that where done by users that delete their accounts are changing to be a post of their internal placeholder user called ghostuser. | 12:49 |
| hacksenwerk | *github | 12:49 |
| brocashelm | all we'd know about you is your username, e-mail, and ip addresses/user agents (which you can fake anyway); everything else is on the user's end | 12:49 |
| brocashelm | but we are not obligated to follow any gdpr "laws" when we are not hosted in the eu | 12:50 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: again: this is nothing I need to discuss about with you. | 12:50 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: The GDPR is not the only data protection law in the world... | 12:50 |
| xrogaan | brocashelm: you actually have to | 12:50 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: Also you felt probably under the GDPR even if you are not hosting in the eu, but allow ips from the eu connecting to your service. :) | 12:51 |
| brocashelm | if it came to that, we'd block those ips | 12:51 |
| hacksenwerk | That's one of the great advantages of the GDPR in comparison to all the laws before. | 12:52 |
| xrogaan | hacksenwerk: personal data is data that can identify a natural person. I don't believe whatever's stored on the forum can be construed as personal data in that regard. | 12:52 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: Correct and restrict your service with taht. | 12:52 |
| brocashelm | and i'm waiting for a lawyer to contact me after some very frustrated users wanting to "take that info off the damn internet" | 12:52 |
| brocashelm | it's fine, we have way more north american users :D | 12:52 |
| hacksenwerk | xrogaan: IP is personal data. | 12:52 |
| xrogaan | It's not stored unless you posted. | 12:53 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: Why are you so upset about data protection? | 12:53 |
| hacksenwerk | xrogaan: It's stored each time you do a connection. | 12:53 |
| xrogaan | it's practically pointless to log the IP of people that don't participate. | 12:53 |
| brocashelm | huh, upset? i am not the one speaking in absolutes about "personal data" over a forum account with 0 posts | 12:53 |
| brocashelm | that's hilarious | 12:53 |
| hacksenwerk | xrogaan: The server needs to know where to send packages to. | 12:53 |
| xrogaan | no, you're wrong. | 12:53 |
| brocashelm | you are the one who is being dramatic, "REEEEEE DELETE MY ACCOUNT NOW" | 12:54 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: You just don't understand personal data. :) | 12:54 |
| brocashelm | LOL | 12:54 |
| brocashelm | you can use a vpn and disposable e-mail | 12:54 |
| brocashelm | your point is invalid | 12:54 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: I'm not dramatic and not even emotional, I just kindly asked for account deletion, then you came in and called me paranoid, explained how you stick the middle finger and so on. I think you lack of self reflection. | 12:55 |
| brocashelm | "kindly", then you got fussy when someone stepped in to point out a few facts that you were overlooking | 12:55 |
| brocashelm | getting so fixated does sound paranoid to me | 12:56 |
| brocashelm | yup, i'll always stick the middle finger to their faces. fuck the eu | 12:56 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: I use dsiposable mails only and vpn is snakeoil. You still don't undertsand, that _everything_ you do online _is_ actually logged, no matter if any service terms tells you that they do not. Data is a currency, it is a multi billion dollar market. | 12:56 |
| brocashelm | yawn | 12:57 |
| onefang | Definitely wandered into #devuan-offtopic now. | 12:57 |
| xrogaan | hacksenwerk: i'm telling you, there's nothing being stored in the db beyond the data necessary for moderation. As you never interacted, no data has been collected. | 12:57 |
| brocashelm | everything is snakeoil. might as well just unplug everything and go live in the woods | 12:57 |
| hacksenwerk | brocashelm: Yeah the es is really bad, all that enviroment stuff, data protection, yug... it seems they are on a mission against everything that is good, like petrol and guns for exmaple. How dare they!11! | 12:58 |
| brocashelm | hahahaha | 12:58 |
| hacksenwerk | xrogaan: It doesn't matter, even if that is the case. :) | 12:58 |
| onefang | Coz never let the facts get in the way of a good rant? | 12:59 |
| brocashelm | so which booster are you on? | 12:59 |
| brocashelm | ;) | 12:59 |
| xrogaan | nevermind gdpr, fluxbb isn't even maintained anymore. | 13:01 |
| xrogaan | that's a hazard in itself. | 13:01 |
| hacksenwerk | xrogaan: That is really concerning... | 13:06 |
| hacksenwerk | xrogaan: „In 2015, FluxBB's lead developer Franz announced they would merge the project with another forum software named Flarum alongside esoTalk lead developer Toby Zerner.“ | 13:09 |
| hacksenwerk | That's from Wikipedia | 13:09 |
| xrogaan | https://discuss.flarum.org/ | 13:09 |
| xrogaan | disgusting! | 13:09 |
| onefang | Discussing! | 13:10 |
| hacksenwerk | Their website https://flarum.org/ is full of cloudflare, google and you know what they have discord! | 13:10 |
| hacksenwerk | But they have colourful buttons everywhere, I think I will use it. | 13:11 |
| xrogaan | admin list for devuan's forums: https://dev1galaxy.org/userlist.php?username=&show_group=1&sort_by=username&sort_dir=ASC&search=Submit | 13:11 |
| hacksenwerk | xrogaan: Yes I know that list. | 13:11 |
| xrogaan | then you know who to email. | 13:12 |
| hacksenwerk | Also "someone" has already blocked my access to the forum and the password rest function isn't working for me. Well... thank you mr anonymous... It hink? But please do not forget to remove my user account from the database: https://dev1galaxy.org/profile.php?id=6435 | 13:13 |
| hacksenwerk | *password reset | 13:13 |
| golinux | Sheesh . . . hacksenwerk sure went into meltdown . . . for future reference . . . forum accounts are not deleted. Just scramble you info and disappear . . . | 18:05 |
| buZz | 12:55:26 < hacksenwerk> brocashelm: I'm not dramatic and not even emotional | 18:47 |
| buZz | :D | 18:47 |
| buZz | thats like people calling themselves 'expert' | 18:47 |
| golinux | buZz: Thanks for the chuckle . . . | 19:15 |
| buZz | ;) | 19:15 |
| * Xenguy declares himself an expert | 19:56 | |
| buZz | sooo bookworm launch parties around the globe | 20:34 |
| buZz | when will daedalus come out? :D | 20:34 |
| golinux | When it comes out . . . | 20:50 |
| grayrock | <-- powered by daedalus... working great. | 20:55 |
| Xenguy | grayrock, nice to hear | 20:56 |
| Xenguy | What do you use for wifi? | 20:56 |
| grayrock | i don't have wifi or bluetooth on this build, but i could install a card for them in an m.2 slot. | 20:59 |
| grayrock | preliminary research seems to indicate that intel ax210 based wifi would work with this kernel. not sure about the bluetooth. | 21:01 |
| grayrock | the daedalus installer isn't ready for prime time yet but that's to be expected. upgrading from chimaera works well, though. | 21:07 |
| fsmithred | exit | 21:44 |
| Xenguy | fsmithred, stage left | 21:51 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!