| brocashelm | so, thunderbird 115 now forces CSD? | 07:46 |
|---|---|---|
| brocashelm | the window bar looks totally fubared with all sorts of shit in the same row as close/minimize/maximize | 07:47 |
| brocashelm | thunderbird 115.3.1 | 07:48 |
| onefang | brocashelm: does the gtk3-nocsd package help? | 08:51 |
| brocashelm | onefang: i have it installed and it's in my environment, but it ignores it | 09:13 |
| brocashelm | i found a reddit thread complaining about this build, with some workarounds (that didn't work for me) | 09:13 |
| brocashelm | https://old.reddit.com/r/Thunderbird/comments/16yri4r/thunderbird_115_sucks_im_out/ | 09:13 |
| brocashelm | link to tutorial from one of the commenters: https://old.reddit.com/r/Thunderbird/comments/16jayrv/how_can_i_make_tb_11522_look_like_it_was_in_11521/k0pxbfa/?context=3 | 09:14 |
| brocashelm | as soon as i saw the search bar and other bloat shoved up right beside the window panel and icons, i almost wanted to go back to claws mail | 09:15 |
| onefang | I use neomutt, in tmux, in a borderless termit window. So I don't have those problems. Claws mail is what I used before that. | 09:16 |
| brocashelm | see, it's fine otherwise if you don't want a gui; i prefer them, but it's a shame what is being done in the name of "simplicity" (as o/t as i get) | 09:17 |
| brocashelm | ironically, no CSD on firefox-esr (using all five daedalus repos) | 09:17 |
| onefang | Though I am using the ASCII neomutt, coz the chimaera one has a habit of marking random emails as "to be deleted". Got tired of "No I don't want to purge these half dozen random emails, just the one I actually marked to be deleted." | 09:17 |
| brocashelm | there's only one package from ascii i didn't allow to get removed: leafpad | 09:18 |
| onefang | Firefox-ESR is also in a borderless window. I prefer that to fullscreen. | 09:18 |
| brocashelm | should be opt-in, IMO | 09:19 |
| brocashelm | that's one of the reasons why xfce 4.16 was controversial | 09:19 |
| onefang | In my experience "fullscreen" means "grabs control, can't move mouse to next monitor, can't change to other virtual desktops, sometimes even tries to spread itself across monitors, which ends in tears coz they are different sizes and resolutions." | 09:20 |
| FatPhil | onefang: IME, neomutt only marks mails that you've saved to another folder as deleted. duplicates are typically undesirable, so that's sane default behaviour. | 11:38 |
| roo^y | ..might see more action in here, than the ghost town of OFTC server :P | 12:09 |
| joerg | roo^y: hmm? welcome! | 13:27 |
| onefang | FatPhil: Except it's random emails it's marking for deletion, not duplicates. At least in the Chimaera version. The Beowulf version had some other bug that I can't recall, but was enough for me to go back to the ASCII version. I hope the Daedalus version is good enough to use. | 15:30 |
| AEonFyr | I have some scripts from some time back that make use of /run/user/`id -u` | 16:26 |
| AEonFyr | as a temporary dir. They stopped working on a daedalus server configuration | 16:26 |
| AEonFyr | with permission denied errors when trying to create that dir. I have tracked | 16:26 |
| AEonFyr | it down to a system that ended up with libsystemd0 installed and no | 16:26 |
| AEonFyr | elogind/libpam-elogind which appears to provide the /run/user/NNNN | 16:26 |
| AEonFyr | functionality. | 16:26 |
| AEonFyr | I'm not very familiar with libsystemd0 vs elogind except in that installing | 16:26 |
| AEonFyr | one removes the other. A quick browse of the devuan forum would indicate | 16:26 |
| AEonFyr | that devuan is happy removing dependencies on elogind | 16:26 |
| AEonFyr | (https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=5909). | 16:26 |
| AEonFyr | Q1: Is the /run/user/NNNN functionality available elsewhere than libpam-elogind? | 16:26 |
| AEonFyr | Q2: Is usage of /run/user/NNNN now deprecated? | 16:26 |
| gnarface | AEonFyr: not sure why that happened, but i'm pretty sure you want to put elogind back | 16:33 |
| gnarface | and you'd also likely want libelogind0 instead of libsystemd0 | 16:35 |
| AEonFyr | Yup, elogind is back because otherwise root owns /run/user and non-root users can't create anything there | 16:35 |
| gnarface | well, they could always use /tmp instead, it seems like a small reason to install a big thing | 16:36 |
| gnarface | but i guess if you need it for a lot of other desktop software you probably need elogind anyway for other things | 16:37 |
| AEonFyr | Yup, libelogind0 is installed | 16:39 |
| AEonFyr | For years I would write scripts that used /tmp and at one time tripped over files that were left there after a reboot. At that point I switched to /run/user because it is ram and is cleared after a reboot. | 16:41 |
| onefang | You can have /tmp on RAM to. | 16:42 |
| gnarface | yes, you can have /tmp in ram easily, but /tmp is supposed to be cleared on reboot regardless | 16:43 |
| AEonFyr | probably, with some work. /run/user has been (currently) effortless ;-) | 16:43 |
| gnarface | you just put it in your /etc/fstab | 16:44 |
| gnarface | tmpfs/tmptmpfsdefaults,nosuid,nodev,mode=1777,size=16M00 | 16:44 |
| gnarface | something like that | 16:44 |
| gnarface | set size to whatever you want | 16:44 |
| AEonFyr | /run/user/NNNN is also protected from other users and hence no need to permission the crap out of temporary files created in scripts | 16:45 |
| gnarface | calling "chmod 0700" once is hardly what i'd characterize as permissioning the crap out of something | 16:47 |
| gnarface | you'll need elogind anyway for a graphical login though | 16:48 |
| AEonFyr | These scripts run on headless servers, so no gui stuff required. | 16:50 |
| AEonFyr | So am I right in expecting elogind to be around for a while? And I just somehow ended up with a couple of upgraded servers (beowulf->chimaera->deadalus) that lost elogind somehow? | 16:52 |
| gnarface | yea, it's not clear why that's happening | 16:53 |
| gnarface | someone else had a similar issue | 16:53 |
| gnarface | maybe try disabling recommends, i dunno | 16:53 |
| AEonFyr | Yup, couldn't be sure but possibly from using apt/aptitude interchangably. | 16:54 |
| AEonFyr | fwiw, I did notice that openssh-server depends on libsystemd0, but seems to run ok with it removed. It's one possibility of where libsystemd0 got in and libpam-elogind was removed. Of course it could also just be a red herring. This trimming out of systemd related stuff must be a package maintainers nightmare. | 17:10 |
| stevelitt | Any idea when the 'Looney Tunables' Linux bug will be fixed in Devuan? See https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/new-looney-tunables-linux-bug-gives-root-on-major-distros/ | 17:24 |
| onefang | Think that's already been fixed. | 17:28 |
| rwp | https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2023-4911 | 17:37 |
| rwp | stevelitt ^^ | 17:39 |
| onefang | So already fixed in Debian, and I saw it available as an update in Devuan. | 17:40 |
| AEonFyr | Ok, so for anyone following along, digging through my apt histories it looks like the dist-upgrade from ascii to beowulf upgraded libsystemd0 and removed libpam-elogind and elogind. This is probably an unusual edge case not often to be encountered. | 17:56 |
| AEonFyr | Installing elogind removes libsystemd0 and generates complaints from several packages that depend on libsystemd0 (openssh-server, lvm2 etc). Just how much of a problem that will be... time will tell. :) | 18:05 |
| rwp | AEonFyr, Uhm... None of those complain for me on my system with elogind installed along with all of those, openssh-server, lvm2, others. Are you sure you have the Devuan version and not the Debian version? | 18:36 |
| rwp | Using "apt-cache policy openssh-server" should say daedalus/main and not debian for example. | 18:37 |
| [-_-] | hi | 20:08 |
| [-_-] | what is the equivalent of devuan to https://snapshot.debian.org | 20:08 |
| AEonFyr | rwp: They only complained on removal of libsystemd0, they're still installed. Definitely on Devuan http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus/main amd64 Packages. apt-cache show lvm2 definitely shows that it depends on libsystemd0 (>= 233) | 20:09 |
| golinux | AEonFyr: Have a look at this: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1925 "Why are systemd files present in Devuan? | 20:27 |
| fsmithred | [-_-], archive.devuan.org | 20:40 |
| [-_-] | :o | 20:41 |
| [-_-] | thanks | 20:41 |
| fsmithred | but that only holds the forked packages. For the rest... | 20:41 |
| fsmithred | archive.debian.org | 20:41 |
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