| sfox | Hello | 03:07 |
|---|---|---|
| sfox | Where is the Xhosts file in Devuan? | 03:07 |
| gnarface | xhosts? | 03:08 |
| sfox | https://tldp.org/HOWTO/XDM-Xterm/config.html | 03:08 |
| gnarface | i didn't know there was a file, you just manage it with the "xhost" binary | 03:08 |
| gnarface | i mean, i'm sure there's a file somewhere for it but i've never had to touch it directly | 03:08 |
| gnarface | unless we're talking about a different xhost here... | 03:08 |
| sfox | oh | 03:09 |
| gnarface | uh... i'm confused, this link isn't about xhost | 03:09 |
| sfox | yes there's an Xserver running on a different computer | 03:09 |
| sfox | I want to allow my friend to run programs on my computer under their own user account as it is more powerful, but still be able to user their less powerful computer for a keyboard and screen and speakers | 03:10 |
| gnarface | alright, easy, though i don't know what that has to do with this link | 03:10 |
| sfox | they need to do some stuff which requires a beefy gpu but their on a laptop and their workstation was killed in a power surge | 03:10 |
| gnarface | sure | 03:10 |
| sfox | were trying to setup XDM because that's what we think will do this | 03:10 |
| gnarface | afaik XDM is some freedesktop.org user environment crap, i'm not sure if they're making a move on remote access or not, if they were that would be news to me but i'd recommend just using openssh's built-in X11 Forwarding feature | 03:12 |
| gnarface | you have openssh-server installed on your machine and openssh-client installed on your friend's, righT? | 03:12 |
| gnarface | i don't think you will even need to change xhost permissions, i think that would just be for if you want him to be able to run the programs remotely on your desktop | 03:14 |
| gnarface | if you just want him to be able to run it on his own screen, on his own desktop, but using your computer's resources... there's very little to change in fact i think X11 Forwarding is on by default in current openssh-server builds | 03:15 |
| gnarface | hang on | 03:16 |
| gnarface | pasting from stackexchange: | 03:16 |
| gnarface | On the client side, the -X (capital X) option to ssh enables X11 forwarding, and you can make this the default (for all connections or for a specific connection) with ForwardX11 yes in ~/.ssh/config. | 03:16 |
| gnarface | On the server side, X11Forwarding yes must be specified in /etc/ssh/sshd_config. Note that the default is no forwarding (some distributions turn it on in their default /etc/ssh/sshd_config), and that the user cannot override this setting. If you change the configuration, remember to tell the server to reload its configuration, e.g. service ssh reload if your system uses systemd. | 03:16 |
| gnarface | (https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/12755/how-to-forward-x-over-ssh-to-run-graphics-applications-remotely) | 03:17 |
| gnarface | alternately you could use VNC if you want to give him a whole desktop of his own instead of just having him forward programs on a per-program basis | 03:17 |
| gnarface | either way though, if you're not on a LAN together the latency will be punishing | 03:18 |
| gnarface | and i think current VNC builds in the repo don't support hardware acceleration but it did exist at one point... | 03:18 |
| gnarface | sfox: try the ssh thing and see how that works then we'll go from there | 03:19 |
| sfox | ssh would be too much overhead and latency | 03:20 |
| sfox | plus, we want to forward the entire screen to an Xserver, not just a few clients | 03:20 |
| gnarface | alright, that's a job for VNC then | 03:21 |
| sfox | why not plain X? | 03:21 |
| gnarface | the direction | 03:21 |
| gnarface | and the fact you want the whole desktop not just 1 window at a time | 03:22 |
| sfox | we are on a LAN | 03:22 |
| sfox | and we have IPv6 | 03:22 |
| gnarface | ipv6 probably won't make a difference, being on the LAN will be critical though, i hope it's not wireless... | 03:22 |
| sfox | no | 03:22 |
| sfox | wired | 03:22 |
| sfox | a linux laptop on gigabit ethernet, through 2 switches | 03:23 |
| sfox | and a netbsd i386 machine capable of X | 03:23 |
| sfox | it has a 3com networking card at 100megabits | 03:23 |
| gnarface | ok, good. so what you want to do as i understand it, is you want your computer to host a whole desktop but it shows up on his client machine. that's a job for VNC. if you wanted programs he runs to show up on your desktop, that would be just bare X | 03:24 |
| gnarface | (or alternately you could launch programs on his... that would also be bare X) | 03:24 |
| gnarface | so you want the whole desktop and you want it to go the other direction, those two things mean it has to be a remote desktop client/server setup such as VNC but there are other options frankly that's just my favorite (even microsoft rdesktop is actaully supported) | 03:25 |
| gnarface | maybe XDM has something for this too even but it looks like a mess if so... | 03:26 |
| sfox | do you think that'd be suitable for running virtual reality software? | 03:26 |
| sfox | I really don't like VNC for work because of all the jpeg artifacting and latency | 03:27 |
| gnarface | only if you got the VNC hardware acceleration for jpeg working really | 03:27 |
| gnarface | jpeg quality can be adjusted but you'll need the hardware accel for it not to be laggy | 03:27 |
| sfox | basiclly, the OpenXR implementation needs to run on the beefy computer with a gpu. The vr game does too. then the OpenXR implementation talks to ALVR which encodes a framebuffer and sends to to a vr headset over the wifi | 03:28 |
| gnarface | does the whole desktop have to be forwarded? to be honest i still think the best solution is to use ssh forwarding on just the VR game itself. you know you can disable encryption for a ssh connection, right? | 03:29 |
| gnarface | somewhat ironically the best performing solution is gonna be Steam | 03:29 |
| gnarface | well, the best i've seen personally anyway. i've heard of a close contender called Sunshine (i think) but it's not in the repos | 03:30 |
| gnarface | or you could just spin up a ffmpeg script and pipe it over netcat to him | 03:30 |
| gnarface | the key factor is just getting something that's hardware accelerated, is what i'm getting at | 03:30 |
| gnarface | it's not enough that your computer is hardware accelerating the local rendering of the game itself, it also has to hardware accelerate the encoding of the video feed, and preferrably to a format that your friend's client machine can hardware decode too | 03:31 |
| gnarface | if this is a VR game you're developing yourself, it bears mentioning that there's some built-in features of OpenGL itself that can obviate this whole thing for you | 03:32 |
| gnarface | OpenGL itself can be run in a network-transparent client-server type setup just as you want, it's just that almost nobody ever uses that anymore | 03:33 |
| gnarface | (except maybe some stuff on Steam) | 03:33 |
| gnarface | (I think I caught RocketLeague for example causing compatibility problems with the Steam Link by doing it wrong, before they discontinued the Linux version.) | 03:34 |
| gnarface | sfox: the netbsd machine... what's the video card in there? | 03:35 |
| gnarface | what sort of hardware decoding features does its driver support? | 03:35 |
| gnarface | it would be helpful to know what you're working with | 03:36 |
| gnarface | hardware jpeg decoding is not ubiquitous anymore but common on NVidia hardware as well as old stuff | 03:36 |
| gnarface | and that would be a huge boon to getting VNC useable | 03:37 |
| sfox | NeoMagic 256ZX | 03:37 |
| rustyaxe | nomachine is quite good useful for video heavy remote display stuff | 03:37 |
| rustyaxe | i use it for waterfall displays on radios often over LTE | 03:38 |
| rustyaxe | needs h.264 accel | 03:38 |
| rustyaxe | but might be more common | 03:38 |
| gnarface | sfox: hmm, 4MB SGRAM, AGP 2X... no matter what you do this thing ain't gonna handle 1080p, you know that right? | 03:40 |
| gnarface | even if you're doing all the hardware acceleration on the host side, you're gonna have to constrain the feed to a pretty low resolution somehow just so this thing can actually draw the frames at full speed | 03:41 |
| gnarface | i used to have the numbers in my head.... | 03:42 |
| gnarface | i forget now but 4MB is 800x600? | 03:42 |
| gnarface | or somewhere around there? | 03:42 |
| gnarface | well, you can lower color depth too to help, but i'm not sure how much that will impact your development process | 03:43 |
| gnarface | sorry, i'm not trying to discourage you from trying this, i'm just trying to help you set realistic expectations | 03:44 |
| sfox | 1-24x768@60fps | 03:44 |
| sfox | 1024x768@60 | 03:44 |
| gnarface | that's at 24 bit color depth? | 03:45 |
| gnarface | or 8? | 03:45 |
| sfox | it looks full range to me | 03:45 |
| sfox | All it needs to do is run a Xserver and a window manager | 03:46 |
| sfox | the big computer with the modern gpu will do all the work. | 03:46 |
| gnarface | ah yea, i found a wiki https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Neomagic_MagicGraph256ZX | 03:46 |
| sfox | it's just that we both need to use the big computer but there's only one seat. | 03:46 |
| gnarface | says it can do 1024x768 @ 24-bit, 1280x1024 @ 8-bit | 03:46 |
| gnarface | "This is despite the 4Mb video ram which should allow 1280x1024 @ 16-bit but low memory bandwidth limits this to 8-bit." | 03:47 |
| sfox | it doesn't need to do 1080, 768 is fine | 03:47 |
| gnarface | so... good news! it supports hardware XV decoding apparently | 03:47 |
| sfox | oh? | 03:47 |
| sfox | XV? | 03:47 |
| gnarface | old 90's era linux specific video codec | 03:47 |
| gnarface | but linux stuff like ffmpeg/mplayer still supports it well | 03:48 |
| gnarface | and it's old enough probably bsd too, though you'll have to check | 03:48 |
| sfox | it's running the latest stable netbsd | 03:48 |
| sfox | 9.3 | 03:48 |
| gnarface | my only BSD systems are headless, so i'm not very valuable to figuring that half out | 03:49 |
| sfox | it's already got a working X server | 03:49 |
| gnarface | yea, like i said, i think it should work i just don't know for sure | 03:49 |
| sfox | were just trying to figure out how to have the Xserver open a port on the network so we can send Xclients to it from the big computer | 03:49 |
| gnarface | definitely possible, and unless you're running a firewall the ports are already open | 03:50 |
| gnarface | mentally, i've just already leaped ahead to trying to solve the performance issue you're going to run into next | 03:50 |
| gnarface | i only see the mention of hardware XV decoding on the thing, but you might want to check the driver docs on netbsd to see if there's any other options | 03:52 |
| gnarface | (like i said if you're lucky and it can do hardware jpeg decoding that'll make VNC a lot more viable of a solution) | 03:53 |
| onefang | In VR keeping lag down is very important, so might be better having the VR hooked directly to the beefy machine, and move the other person to the remote X. | 03:54 |
| onefang | Unless you have iron guts like me and don't do nausea. | 03:55 |
| sfox | i typed xhost +bigcomputer.lan and it looked like it worked | 03:55 |
| sfox | but when i type DISPLAY=smallcomputer.lan:0 glxgears on the big computer it says | 03:55 |
| sfox | Error: couldn't open display | 03:55 |
| sfox | I don't think X is binding to a network address | 03:56 |
| gnarface | hmm, bigcomputer.lan and smallcomputer.lan are both registered in both systems' dns or hosts files? | 03:57 |
| sfox | how can I get X to listen on it's network port? | 03:57 |
| sfox | dns | 03:57 |
| gnarface | you typed "DISPLAY=smallcomputer.lan:0 glxgears" from the bigcomputer side, right? | 03:58 |
| sfox | yes | 03:58 |
| gnarface | and glxgears is installed on the smallcomputer side already? | 03:58 |
| sfox | i also commented out DisplayManager.requestPort: 0 on the small computer | 03:58 |
| gnarface | or, wait no, i guess it'd need to be on the bigcomputer side | 03:58 |
| sfox | yes the big computer running devuan has glxgears | 03:58 |
| gnarface | you sure you don't have a firewall in place on the netbsd side? | 03:58 |
| sfox | yes | 03:59 |
| gnarface | i think port 6000 is the default | 03:59 |
| sfox | TCP? | 03:59 |
| gnarface | both actually? not sure | 03:59 |
| gnarface | checking... | 03:59 |
| gnarface | hmm, i've been doing this over ssh for so long i'm having trouble remembering what the details were for doing without it | 04:01 |
| gnarface | well i'm seeing google searches suggest that it might be 6000 or 6001 but not specifying whether tcp or udp | 04:02 |
| gnarface | i would open both just for testing until sure | 04:02 |
| gnarface | sfox: anything on here that looks like you forgot? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/20548509/forwarding-x11-without-ssh-how-do-i-run-local-apps-on-another-pc-running-x-serv | 04:03 |
| sfox | i'm not trying to do that, i'm trying to get X to listen on the network | 04:04 |
| sfox | without ssh | 04:04 |
| gnarface | that's exactly what he's trying to do too, no? | 04:04 |
| gnarface | just talking about this glxgears test for starters | 04:05 |
| gnarface | sfox: oh, here's an idea, see if you can telnet to tcp port 6000 on the netbsd machine from the bigcomputer | 04:07 |
| gnarface | that's just a quick sanity check | 04:07 |
| gnarface | maybe netbsd needs some secondary xorg config changed to allow forwarding, it does seem like the type of thing that might be disabled by default for security | 04:08 |
| sfox | hey i got it to listen on the small computer with X -listen inet6 | 04:09 |
| sfox | but now when i try to run glxgears on the big computer i get | 04:09 |
| sfox | uthorization required, but no authorization protocol specified | 04:09 |
| sfox | Error: couldn't open display smallcomputer.lan:0 | 04:09 |
| sfox | I host typed on the small computer xhost +bigcomputer.lan | 04:09 |
| gnarface | hmm | 04:09 |
| sfox | that should have worked | 04:10 |
| gnarface | is it possible the netbsd side is wired up to require xauth by default or something like that? | 04:10 |
| sfox | what's xauth? | 04:10 |
| gnarface | i only vaguely understand it as a way to assign encryption keys to clients/hosts | 04:11 |
| gnarface | instead of just allowing by IP only | 04:11 |
| gnarface | but now it does occur to me that ipv6 could be a complication too after you brought up that you had to run "X -listen inet6" specifically | 04:11 |
| sfox | there's a manual page missing in Devuan | 04:13 |
| sfox | referenced in Xserver(1) there should be a Xsecurity(7) | 04:14 |
| onefang | Try netstat to see if X is on IPv4 or IPv6? | 04:14 |
| sfox | is is definitely listening on v6 now | 04:15 |
| gnarface | hmm, we're missing something here | 04:21 |
| gnarface | maybe in the xorg config | 04:22 |
| gnarface | ah ha! | 04:26 |
| gnarface | sfox: look in the file "/etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc" | 04:27 |
| gnarface | (or whatever the netbsd equivalent is) | 04:27 |
| gnarface | or hell, just look at the executed command line for X in the output of "ps aux" | 04:28 |
| gnarface | hmm, no that's not all of the story though here... missing something else too... | 04:30 |
| rrq | sfox: Xsecurity man page comes in xorg-docs-core | 04:30 |
| gnarface | i'm sure this used to work, but they seem to have placed several default stopgaps since then and i have only found one so far | 04:36 |
| sfox | thanks | 04:40 |
| rrq | X authorisation may require the XAUTHORITY envirnment variable to be set for the client | 04:40 |
| sfox | we were able to get it working my manually generating an xcoookie for inet6 and then SCPing the .Xauthority over | 04:40 |
| gnarface | cool | 04:41 |
| sfox | gnarface, thanks for that file! | 04:41 |
| rustyaxe | where should i put some early tasks for mkdiring some /var/log directories? i have a tmpfs on /var/log as / is going ro soon | 04:41 |
| gnarface | sfox: there should be some way to disable the xauth thing too, but i'm struggling to find it, it wasn't on by default last time i did this without ssh... what's important is you got it working though | 04:42 |
| gnarface | rustyaxe: you mean like somewhere in the startup scripts? | 04:43 |
| rustyaxe | looking like either mountall or checkroot-bootclean would be good spots | 04:45 |
| rustyaxe | not really seeing anywhere unlikely to get clobbered by dpkg unintentionally later | 04:46 |
| onefang | /etc/rc.local or depending on which version you have installed /etc/boot.d/ which rc.local should run through all scripts in there. | 04:49 |
| gnarface | /etc/rc.local wouldn't get clobbered, but that's very last in the boot order, would that be soon enough? | 04:49 |
| onefang | Hmmm, maybe not soon enough if it's being used to setup /var/log | 04:50 |
| gnarface | you could always add your own init script, that shouldn't get clobbered, though the symlinks might not be so lucky | 04:51 |
| onefang | I keep my writable directories in a separate /media/DATA disk, with things symlinked there. Including things like /var and /home | 04:52 |
| sfox | yeah, now trying to lookup exactly what XDMCP does and how to set it up | 04:54 |
| sfox | thanks for the help gnarface, onefang | 04:54 |
| onefang | You are welcome. | 04:54 |
| gnarface | no problem, though i don't think i actually helped much | 04:56 |
| rustyaxe | gnarface: rc.local would be a good bit too late as daemons will all be started by then. probably just need to make another initscript and stuff it in between in the right spot | 04:56 |
| sfox | https://tldp.org/HOWTO/Remote-X-Apps-6.html | 04:58 |
| gnarface | thanks sfox, this has been a very educational exercise in realizing just how old i'm getting | 05:03 |
| onefang | Are you a greybeard yet gnarface? B-) | 05:05 |
| gnarface | heh, oh yes. not all of it, but it's getting to be most of it | 05:05 |
| n4dir | anyone uses lightdm with autologin? | 08:32 |
| n4dir | i edited the file, no autologin, i edited 3 lines. | 08:32 |
| n4dir | autologin{guest,user,timeout}. There were spaces, the web had the entry witout spaces | 08:33 |
| n4dir | autologin-guest = false; | 08:33 |
| n4dir | after removing the spaces around =; still no autologin | 08:37 |
| CueXXIII | where did the dash come from? | 08:40 |
| n4dir | which dash? | 08:42 |
| CueXXIII | also lightdm probably has a logfile in /var/log, or logs there to another file | 08:44 |
| n4dir | which dash? | 08:45 |
| CueXXIII | the one you pasted | 08:45 |
| n4dir | i got no idea what you mean "where does it come from" | 08:45 |
| CueXXIII | "autologin{guest,user,timeout}" and "autologin-guest" | 08:46 |
| n4dir | i tried to say that for all three lines per default there is a space around the = | 08:48 |
| n4dir | the autologin-guest was the example how it looks like | 08:48 |
| n4dir | the dash comes from the file | 08:48 |
| CueXXIII | the space probably was not the problem, did lightdm put somethin in a logfile? | 08:49 |
| n4dir | the logfile says unknown option | 08:50 |
| CueXXIII | hm, maybe the option was removed? | 08:52 |
| CueXXIII | but it still seems to be present in the source of lightdm 1.32.0-4devuan1 | 08:54 |
| n4dir | the weird thing is that quite a few web-results got no space around =; the lightdm.conf file has them | 08:57 |
| n4dir | didn't work either though. lol | 08:58 |
| n4dir | i mean i assume if the config file has the spaces, then it wants them. | 09:01 |
| CueXXIII | i think i had autologin running sometime ago, not sure which dm, though. but decided against it | 09:01 |
| n4dir | yup. good choice | 09:02 |
| n4dir | back more than a decade, always something was broken for lightdm. I then gave up on it altogether | 09:03 |
| onefang | Why not just run startx from a boot script? | 09:07 |
| onefang | And skip lxdm altogether. | 09:07 |
| onefang | Er lightdm. | 09:07 |
| n4dir | onefang: i had the idea, but was not sure if cadence would automatically start jack audioserver if i autologin by other means | 09:07 |
| n4dir | could have tested it, but i am not really willing to spend too much time on this. Having in mind that probably no one will use the laptop anyway | 09:08 |
| onefang | I start qjackctl (and other things) from a login script, you could do something similar. | 09:08 |
| n4dir | oh, and i didn't quicky find the autologin procedure for sysv | 09:08 |
| onefang | I have cadence installed, but haven't played with it much. | 09:09 |
| n4dir | yes, i could do similar things. I assumed, wrongly, with lightdm this would just be a few seconds | 09:09 |
| n4dir | i guess they will get over it having to enter username/passwd to log in | 09:10 |
| onefang | I use lightdm, but never tried autologin. | 09:10 |
| n4dir | i already gave up on the idea. shutdown the laptop and put it in the bag, to carry it to them later | 09:11 |
| n4dir | and dang, it sure is heavy | 09:13 |
| onefang | You are speaking to a man that spent a week last month carrying 30 kg packs around the city. Define "heavy". B-) | 09:14 |
| n4dir | heavy for a laptop | 09:14 |
| CueXXIII | n4dir: hm, had a daedalus vm lying around; autologin-user works, with and without spaces around the = | 09:28 |
| n4dir | CueXXIII: that even makes it worse. Thanks for looking. No clue why it didn't work | 09:28 |
| CueXXIII | did you put the option in the right section of the config file? | 09:29 |
| n4dir | i did a search for "auto" with vim in lightdm.conf. I only found the ones i mentioned and some pam stuff | 09:29 |
| n4dir | perhaps i didn't look close enough | 09:30 |
| n4dir | the entry seems short enough to have been the right one | 09:30 |
| CueXXIII | it should be in a seat section, since autologin is a seat option | 09:30 |
| n4dir | oh. I did get some seatd messages during boot. I ignored them | 09:32 |
| n4dir | as i don't even know what seat is | 09:32 |
| CueXXIII | seatd is something different; seat in lightdm means one xsession instance. maybe with a local xserver, maybe with a remote one, or a virtual one (vnc, …) | 09:34 |
| CueXXIII | not sure about seatd, it's one of these new inventions like logind | 09:34 |
| n4dir | CueXXIII: you have the session to be run set in lightdm.conf? | 09:34 |
| n4dir | or just the lines with username and timeout? | 09:35 |
| CueXXIII | i just uncommented autologin-user | 09:35 |
| n4dir | yup, same for me. | 09:35 |
| n4dir | weird | 09:35 |
| n4dir | i will just leave it as one of those reasons i don't use display-mangers | 09:36 |
| CueXXIII | n4dir: my conofig: https://www.oetec.com/pastebin/plain/bvKCf6XP | 09:37 |
| CueXXIII | -o | 09:38 |
| * n4dir looks | 09:38 | |
| n4dir | CueXXIII: you seem to be the man. I didn't look closely, and you got it in Seat, as you said. Thanks | 09:38 |
| n4dir | now i got to unpack the dang thing again. Then will tell you: yup, that worked (i hope | 09:39 |
| CueXXIII | hm, is there a lightwight browser in devuan in which 90% of the web works? | 09:39 |
| n4dir | falkon might be worth a try. It adds a lot of dependecies though | 09:40 |
| n4dir | for me it works on most of the web. It starts with rather low ressource-usage, but it gets up later. | 09:41 |
| n4dir | as i gave up on it, i assume it isn't too low in the long run | 09:41 |
| n4dir | but i always liked it | 09:41 |
| CueXXIII | uh, it pulls in a fishbowl of kde libs xD | 09:42 |
| n4dir | i wouldn't care about them, but you also get a lot of entries in apps-menu (i don't use it anyway, but for the ones using the laptp: might confuse them) | 09:43 |
| n4dir | --no-install-recommends; didn't really help, iirc | 09:43 |
| n4dir | CueXXIII: as i have assumed, you are the man. It worked. Thanks a ton for looking into it and helping | 09:44 |
| CueXXIII | yeah, i was wondering weather the documentation was outdated… | 09:46 |
| n4dir | i would have never expected there is a second entry (a third if you add pam). My fault, assuming i would know more than i did | 09:47 |
| n4dir | the warning should be in the docs though, i am probably not the first running in it | 09:47 |
| CueXXIII | whether | 09:47 |
| n4dir | nah, weather is great. I love it, and do it all the time | 09:48 |
| n4dir | of curse ! | 09:48 |
| CueXXIII | there are sections in the config file, marked with [foo] | 09:48 |
| CueXXIII | and with any config file, the section has to match | 09:49 |
| n4dir | still i wonder what the other entry might be good for. But not enough to look closely | 09:51 |
| CueXXIII | the one above that? a description of the seat options, it even has a commented [Seat] at the top | 10:00 |
| attem | Good day! | 14:25 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!