aradesh | what is the definition of median? | 00:00 |
---|---|---|
Nokaji | mid, median, mode - three types of average | 00:00 |
Nokaji | modal | 00:00 |
aradesh | ah ok, i've found it | 00:01 |
aradesh | what's it called when you take the max and min of a range, and half it? | 00:01 |
Nokaji | median = the value below which 50% of cases fall | 00:01 |
Nokaji | midDLE ... iirc | 00:02 |
aradesh | yeah, median is what i thought it was then | 00:02 |
Nokaji | modal = most frequent value in a distribution | 00:02 |
IronY | I realized something today, I have had two fears all my life | 00:03 |
IronY | mostly inspired by hollywood movies | 00:03 |
IronY | asteroids and pandemics | 00:03 |
IronY | so of the two | 00:03 |
IronY | at least we got the more mild | 00:03 |
IronY | #positiveThoughts | 00:03 |
LjL | <aradesh> what's it called when you take the max and min of a range, and half it? ← that doesn't sound like median, but i'm not sure what you mean | 00:04 |
LjL | aradesh, aren't you supposed to be some sort of mathematician? :P | 00:04 |
ssweeny[m] | cough https://www.ibtimes.com/biggest-asteroid-approach-april-arriving-next-week-nasa-reveals-2950426 cough | 00:05 |
aradesh | LjL: yeah but i forget the terms :P | 00:05 |
aradesh | ow! | 00:05 |
aradesh | ssweeny[m]: careful with all that coughing around here | 00:05 |
LjL | aradesh, anyway it's what he said, median means that half of the cases are below that number, and the other half above (with provisions being made for odd vs even :P) | 00:05 |
aradesh | yeah i thought so, i just wanted to check it wasn't that 'middle' thing | 00:06 |
ssweeny[m] | <aradesh "Scott Sweeny: careful with all t"> Good point! | 00:06 |
LjL | ssweeny[m], bit cheap, the article doesn't seem to mention the estimated odds of it, you know, actually colliding! | 00:06 |
aradesh | good night o/ | 00:07 |
LjL | aradesh, night | 00:07 |
LjL | don't let the mathematics bite | 00:07 |
ssweeny[m] | <LjL "Scott Sweeny, bit cheap, the art"> I just saw IronY 's message about asteroids and remembered seeing something in the news about one approaching | 00:08 |
ThomCat[m] | > During its near-Earth intersection, the asteroid will be about 0.04920 astronomical units from the planet’s center, which is equivalent to around 4.6 million miles away. | 00:08 |
ThomCat[m] | Please note the Moon is like 200,000 miles away from Earth | 00:08 |
LjL | ssweeny[m], yeah, i mean, i must have said things like "what are we missing now, an asteroid?!" a few times... and the authors of that article probably thought that a few times as well, and checked ;) | 00:08 |
LjL | if there has to be an asteroid impact please just make it hit me, i don't want deal with the (literal) fallout | 00:09 |
ThomCat[m] | So almost 20x further than the moon | 00:09 |
ThomCat[m] | WHy, haven't you been saving up your bottle caps? | 00:10 |
LjL | kinda | 00:11 |
IronY | LjL: My intention was not to stress you out more | 00:16 |
IronY | lol | 00:16 |
LjL | IronY, no really i'd almost welcome an asteroid | 00:16 |
python476 | https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/news/economic-life-after-covid-19-lessons-from-the-black-death/articleshow/74870296.cms | 00:17 |
python476 | black death was a boon for the centuries after | 00:17 |
python476 | better wages and higher morale (carpe diem PTSD) | 00:17 |
python476 | I love bloomberg's philosophy :D | 00:17 |
LjL | python476, how long did recovery took before it boomed? because it may look like a boom to us from a far-away perspective, but how many years were people still starving and so *after* the epidemic itself ended? | 00:18 |
LjL | eventually it'll have been a boom because there were more resources and fewer people, but i'm not sure someone who experienced it in their lifetime would have perceived it that way | 00:18 |
Nokaji | it'll be a new wild west | 00:19 |
python476 | LjL: "not important, better wages overall!" | 00:20 |
Nokaji | more social climbing | 00:20 |
LjL | python476, did you see my link to instant excuse generator for frenchie police? | 00:20 |
python476 | nope | 00:20 |
python476 | are you trying to break our nation ? :D | 00:21 |
LjL | %fdroid Attestation Coronavirus | 00:21 |
Brainstorm | LjL, Attestation Coronavirus 0.0.3 (com.adrienpoupa.attestationcoronavirus) in https://f-droid.org/repo: Generates the PDF attestation file required by the French government to go out. - updated 2020-04-01, see https://github.com/AdrienPoupa/AttestationCoronavirus | 00:21 |
Brainstorm | LjL, Last time I checked, not all indexes could be downloaded! | 00:21 |
LjL | python476, no need, you do that fine on your own | 00:21 |
python476 | that's true | 00:22 |
python476 | "we need no one's help to suck!" | 00:22 |
LjL | Products that hadn’t been for mass consumption earlier — such as linen underwear and glass panes in windows — became more widely available as cheap capital rushed to satiate the growing desire to consume | 00:23 |
CoronaBot | /r/worldnews: As COVID-19 rages, evangelical pastor organization is planning to contact and convert isolated indigenous groups in remote Amazon tribes (5161 votes) | 00:23 |
CoronaBot | https://news.mongabay.com/2020/03/as-covid-19-rages-evangelical-pastor-may-contact-remote-amazon-tribes/ | https://redd.it/ft37lz | 00:23 |
CoronaBot | /r/worldnews: Brazil’s president Jair Bolsonaro is facing a growing backlash over his handling of the coronavirus crisis, with the state governors responsible for more than 200 million of the country’s 210 million people refusing to follow his commands over the pandemic. (5012 votes) | 00:23 |
CoronaBot | https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/01/brazil-bolsonaro-ignored-by-state-governors-amid-anger-at-handling-of-covid-19-crisis | https://redd.it/fsxm3v | 00:23 |
LjL | does that mean i may have glass window panes after this?! | 00:23 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:09 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Trump uses coronavirus briefing to issue warnings over drug cartels and Iran – live — from r/WorldNews at 22:09: Israeli forces 'steal coronavirus food aid for needy Palestinians, beat aid workers' → https://is.gd/9kw2cV | 00:25 |
dunnp | so many bots | 00:29 |
dunnp | getting pretty spammy | 00:29 |
LjL | dunnp, yeah... i am aware there is a problem with this | 00:30 |
LjL | dunnp, yuriwho: this is the drug that's being talked about the most in italy right now, at least media-wise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocilizumab#COVID-19 | 00:30 |
ubLIX | it is on the TODO: list to ask CoronaBot to consolidate posts into single line, and to not double post | 00:31 |
ubLIX | ^ sYN4P515 | 00:31 |
LjL | ubLIX, worst case, i was thinking that i could do some kind of hack where coronabot is muted but +z is set and Brainstorm is opped and it eats up CoronaBot's posts and posts them in a more concise fashion | 00:32 |
ubLIX | more work for you, LjL | 00:33 |
sYN4P515 | you can change the threshold for reddit posts if you think its too spammy | 00:33 |
IronY | you need a link shortner | 00:33 |
LjL | well ideally CoronaBot would do it, but since i write bots too, i can understand customizing too much gets complicated | 00:33 |
LjL | sYN4P515, it's really more about having the same piece of news on multiple lines for me | 00:34 |
IronY | or better yet | 00:34 |
IronY | you have 4 people who do bots here | 00:34 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:24 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: US coronavirus live: Trump says federal stockpile of protective equipment nearly empty — from r/WorldNews at 22:24: Israeli forces 'steal coronavirus food aid for needy Palestinians, beat aid workers' → https://is.gd/9kw2cV | 00:34 |
IronY | someone open up the source to their bot | 00:34 |
IronY | and we can consolidate | 00:34 |
LjL | i think i'd be fine with just the redd.it link, and without the full link, on the same line as the headline | 00:34 |
sYN4P515 | ok i'll consolidate in a single line | 00:35 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +1709 cases (now 932766), +52 deaths (now 46838), +142 recoveries (now 193891) — US: +1383 cases (now 212791), +41 deaths (now 4759) — California, US: +847 cases (now 9551), +22 deaths (now 206) | 00:37 |
CoronaBot | /r/worldnews: France has converted its high-speed TGV trains into ambulances to transport critically ill coronavirus patients across the country (5041 votes) | 00:41 |
CoronaBot | https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-france-high-speed-tgv-trains-moving-hospitals-2020-3?r=US&IR=T | https://redd.it/fsytj3 | 00:41 |
LjL | sigh | 00:51 |
LjL | they can transfer patients "across the country" and we can barely move a couple to the region next door (IF they want them) | 00:51 |
LjL | python476, centralization: 1, balkanization: 0 | 00:51 |
LjL | also, our high speed trains have windows that blow up if the enter tunnels faster than 160km/h, last i checked | 00:51 |
LjL | i suspect that might be in breach of isolation protocols | 00:52 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +546 cases (now 933312), +14 deaths (now 46852) — Alabama, US: +7 cases (now 1084), +2 deaths (now 28) — Argentina: +3 deaths (now 31) | 00:52 |
Jigsy | I've noticed that cars aren't respecting social distancing rules. | 00:53 |
IronY | LOL Jigsy I thought about that today | 00:53 |
AimHere | They don't have to | 00:53 |
IronY | someone was on my ass | 00:53 |
IronY | in my mind im like f*** man , a meter or more please | 00:54 |
Jigsy | AimHere: I disagree. People should be driving 2m apart. | 00:54 |
Jigsy | Just to be extra pedantic. :3 | 00:54 |
AimHere | Jigsy, you can disagree all you want, but automobile to automobile transmission hasn't been detected yet, so it's okay | 00:54 |
LjL | based on https://www.infodata.ilsole24ore.com/2020/03/18/43371/ although the article itself is outdated (and optimistic), there is an updated graph that would place COVID-19 as the 4th leading cause of death in Italy | 00:55 |
LjL | although that's based on total deaths, and not deaths "as certified by the ISS", which are a small minority compared to what's normally reported, but that is also a bit of a joke, since by their own wording, whenever someone has a comorbidity that may be enough to stop it from being considered a COVID-19 death | 00:56 |
IronY | LjL: How do we calculate AIDS deaths | 00:57 |
LjL | a decent question. i'd say you'd have to do something involve subtracting, for each "apparent" cause of death, the baseline of that particular cause of death in the general population | 00:58 |
LjL | so the death rate "due to AIDS" that shows up as cancer is the death rate from cancer in people with AIDS minus the death rate of cancer in the general population | 00:58 |
LjL | then, do that for every apparent cause of death, and average in a mathematically sound way | 00:59 |
IronY | so basically the detla on the healthy average | 00:59 |
IronY | makes sense | 00:59 |
LjL | it is similar to one way of estimating effective COVID-19 deaths, although it's difficult | 00:59 |
LjL | you can look at average mortality, and see how much more we have at this time | 01:00 |
LjL | that'll let you see if we have a spike in mortality that's even higher than the officially registered COVID-19 deaths (because there are some that weren't identified and/or because there are other causes of death related to the COVID-19 emergency, such as inability to call an ambulance in time) | 01:00 |
LjL | but at the same time, we have lockdowns in most places now, and that means you might have fewer deaths from things like car accident | 01:01 |
LjL | so it gets tricky | 01:01 |
IronY | something like 3000 deaths a day | 01:01 |
IronY | due to car accidents | 01:01 |
IronY | I went on that tangent a little awhile ago | 01:01 |
LjL | yeah i assume some of those still happen, like for instance some days ago two police cars had an accident in Milan | 01:01 |
LjL | and i almost didn't gloat at all | 01:01 |
IronY | I still feel fairly positive, if you subtract all deaths that are 100% avoided by not leaving your house, and add all pregnancies that will occur from people not leaving their house | 01:02 |
IronY | we may come out of this at a population net gain | 01:02 |
tinwhiskers | damn coronials | 01:02 |
IronY | ^ I hope I get to say that in 15 years | 01:02 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +928 cases (now 934240), +29 deaths (now 46881) — US: +1117 cases (now 213908), +29 deaths (now 4788) — Florida, US: +818 cases (now 7773), +14 deaths (now 101) | 01:07 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:00 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Italy records lowest daily increase in deaths in a week as known global cases pass 900,000 — from r/WorldNews at 23:00: Spain eclipses 100,000 confirmed coronavirus cases today → https://is.gd/HcP57U | 01:07 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +557 cases (now 934797), +55 deaths (now 46936) — US: +557 cases (now 214465), +55 deaths (now 4843) — Alabama, US: +7 cases (now 1084), +2 deaths (now 28) | 01:22 |
nb | %cases indiana | 01:23 |
Brainstorm | NameError: global name 'cases' is not defined (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/covid.py", line 190, in covid) | 01:23 |
nb | I thought that was the command? | 01:23 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:14 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live update: NSW police say lockdown orders will last 90 days as national cases near 5,000 – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 23:14: Spain eclipses 100,000 confirmed coronavirus cases today → https://is.gd/YVYphh | 01:23 |
ubLIX | it is | 01:24 |
ubLIX | ^ LjL | 01:24 |
ryouma | LjL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-range | 01:26 |
ryouma | ara | 01:26 |
tinwhiskers | The mid-range is rarely used in practical statistical analysis, as it lacks efficiency as an estimator for most distributions of interest, because it ignores all intermediate points, and lacks robustness, as outliers change it significantly. Indeed, it is one of the least efficient and least robust statistics | 01:31 |
LjL | lol, looks promising | 01:31 |
LjL | ubLIX, turns out the variable is called "confirmed", and not "cases" | 01:33 |
LjL | %cases indiana | 01:33 |
Brainstorm | LjL: In Indiana, US, there are 2565 cases, 65 deaths (2.5% of cases), 0 recoveries as of April 01, 00:05Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 01:33 |
LjL | nb, ↑ | 01:33 |
ubLIX | var1, var2 .. var9307 along with a booklet listing their uses is so much simpler :p | 01:37 |
LjL | ubLIX, don't be silly | 01:38 |
LjL | that needs to be var0, var1 .. var9306 | 01:38 |
ubLIX | oops | 01:39 |
nb | LjL, thanks | 01:41 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:38 UTC: (news): White House advisor Fauci says coronavirus vaccine trial is on target and will be 'ultimate game changer' — from r/WorldNews at 23:38: Covid-19 effect dips: China reopens markets selling bats, cats and dogs → https://is.gd/ywb5ny | 01:45 |
LjL | https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52126735 ← WHO discovers cough and sneezes travel longer than one meter, and face masks may stop them | 01:45 |
LjL | if only we had made these tremendous medical advances *before* the pandemic... | 01:45 |
PlanckWalk | Heh | 01:46 |
tinwhiskers | ubLIX, LjL; back when I worked in support one person named all their files 001.doc, 002.ppt etc, and have a little notebook in which they said what each file was. I cursed them out about it so badly they cried :-/ | 01:49 |
LjL | aw | 01:49 |
tinwhiskers | yeah. oops | 01:49 |
ubLIX | oh. i thought i was joking | 01:49 |
tinwhiskers | I so wanted to steal the notebook just to make a point | 01:49 |
LjL | i do the same | 01:51 |
LjL | except i keep the notebook itself on my computer | 01:51 |
LjL | and i call it a file allocation table | 01:51 |
tinwhiskers | lol | 01:51 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:44 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: US coronavirus live: Trump says federal stockpile of protective equipment nearly empty — from r/WorldNews at 23:44: Covid-19 effect dips: China reopens markets selling bats, cats and dogs → https://is.gd/9kw2cV | 01:51 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +580 cases (now 935377), +263 deaths (now 47199), +98 recoveries (now 193989) — Alabama, US: +24 cases (now 1108) — Argentina: +79 cases (now 1133), +1 deaths (now 32) | 01:53 |
AimHere | USA is the first country to break the 1000 deaths/day barrier | 01:56 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 23:51 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: Should the UK use drones to disinfect public spaces? — from r/WorldNews at 23:51: Covid-19 effect dips: China reopens markets selling bats, cats and dogs → https://is.gd/0Fw9HR | 01:57 |
yn | https://blog.ircpuzzles.org/2020/04/2020-april-fools-live/ | 02:00 |
sYN4P515 | LjL changed reddit announcement to single line and short link only | 02:02 |
jbjllk | https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51235105 | 02:06 |
bin_bash | do you think when we can gather again we'll get protestors shouting "CHINA LIED AND PEOPLE DIED" | 02:07 |
pokiehl | The virus hasn't even been proven to have originated in china, so that happening would be worrisome. | 02:08 |
bin_bash | everyonw knows it started in China | 02:09 |
bin_bash | AND China has been lying about numbers from the start | 02:09 |
bin_bash | Not to mention trying to cover it up in the beginning | 02:09 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:00 UTC: Music: Singer Adam Schlesinger, of Fountains of Wayne, dead at 52 of coronavirus — from r/WorldNews at 00:00: Covid-19 effect dips: China reopens markets selling bats, cats and dogs → https://is.gd/hzk5Xv | 02:10 |
jbjllk | https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51706225 | 02:10 |
ubLIX | bin_bash: in reverse order, that wasn't China, that was local government; it is too early to say that, or just disingenuous to use the word 'lying'; everyone knows it was first conspicuous in China | 02:12 |
pokiehl | If anything they're lying about new cases | 02:14 |
bin_bash | ubLIX: local government covered it up AND the CCP did too. They encouraged the lunar new year celebrations knowing full well what was going on. Friends of mine FROM CHINA have been horrified at the situation and handling | 02:14 |
ubLIX | as much as anyone, I too want to know comprehensive and well validated details for these questions | 02:15 |
bin_bash | they've been lying about everything from the start, which is unfortunately par for the course with them | 02:16 |
ubLIX | i will wait for the historians | 02:17 |
bin_bash | what is that supposed to mean | 02:17 |
ubLIX | just that their view will be clearer than ours | 02:17 |
bin_bash | so you just want to wait 100 years? | 02:18 |
ubLIX | i'm sure the view will become clearer with each passing year | 02:18 |
bin_bash | Are you really expecting anything other than what I've just said? | 02:19 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:14 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live update: two deaths take toll to 23 as NSW police say lockdown powers to last at least 90 days – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 00:14: Russian plane with coronavirus medical gear lands in U.S. after Trump-Putin call → https://is.gd/YVYphh | 02:22 |
ubLIX | i have not been focused on questions of balance in geopolitics, and i have no expectations as of yet | 02:23 |
oriba | Adjoint-based Data Assimilation of an Epidemiology Model for the Covid-19 Pandemic in 2020 -> https://zenodo.org/record/3735317 | 02:27 |
oriba | LjL: the above link might interest you | 02:28 |
oriba | mefistofeles: the above link might interest you | 02:28 |
CoronaBot | /r/worldnews: Be prepared to stay inside for up to three months, Toronto's top doctor warns (5048 votes) | https://redd.it/ft1to9 | 02:31 |
synaps3 | %data Serbia | 02:35 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for US: +538 cases (now 215003), +259 deaths (now 5102), +73 recoveries (now 8878) — Alabama, US: +24 cases (now 1108) — Argentina: +79 cases (now 1133), +1 deaths (now 32) | 02:35 |
Brainstorm | synaps3: In all areas, Serbia, there are 1060 cases, 28 deaths (2.6% of cases), 42 recoveries as of April 02, 00:29Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Serbia for time series data. | 02:35 |
ubLIX | subject matter aside, that looks rather nice, sYN4P515 | 02:38 |
sYN4P515 | the short style reddit post ubLIX ? | 02:38 |
ubLIX | mhm | 02:38 |
sYN4P515 | cool, glad you like it | 02:38 |
sYN4P515 | i can always add enhancements and fixes - just let me know | 02:38 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:33 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 930,000 as Singapore reports its 1,000th case: Singapore been praised for its handling of the crisis early by implementing strict quarantine measures and rigorous contact tracing efforts. → https://is.gd/TewjEi | 02:41 |
ubLIX | fussy enough as it is, don't encourage me :p | 02:41 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:45 UTC: (news): White House advisor Fauci says coronavirus vaccine trial is on target and will be 'ultimate game changer' → https://is.gd/ywb5ny | 02:47 |
IronY | well on the plus side I do not owe the gov any money for taxes this year | 02:47 |
IronY | on the down side I do not get much money back | 02:47 |
v0idkr4ft | %data world | 02:48 |
Brainstorm | v0idkr4ft: In all areas, World, there are 935741 cases, 47204 deaths (5.0% of cases), 193989 recoveries as of April 02, 00:29Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.7% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 19.6% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 02:48 |
bin_bash | IronY: that sounds like a mostyl good thing | 02:50 |
penny_ | wuts ur net | 02:50 |
IronY | in the low 100s | 02:51 |
IronY | i took 3 months off | 02:51 |
penny_ | $ | 02:51 |
IronY | I worked 2 full time jobs in 2018 as a consultant so I took 3 months off at the start of 2019 | 02:51 |
IronY | around this time last year, I was doing the same thing, except it was by choice not because the world was fucked | 02:52 |
penny_ | how long do u figure this chaos bc people cant make money | 02:52 |
penny_ | derp. how long do you think the shutdown can last before chaos bc people cant make money | 02:53 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:47 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 930,000 as Singapore reports its 1,000th case: Singapore has been praised for its handling of the crisis early by implementing strict quarantine measures and rigorous contact tracing efforts. — from r/WorldNews at 00:47: The USA just crossed 1000 deaths in one day from Coronavirus → https://is.gd/TewjEi | 02:53 |
IronY | penny_: I somehow have a household with 2 people and 3 incomes still | 02:54 |
IronY | not everyone is not making money | 02:54 |
IronY | most people | 02:54 |
penny_ | true | 02:54 |
IronY | not everyone | 02:54 |
IronY | (I am going to be 100% honest, i wish i was laid off) | 02:54 |
penny_ | so many people that it cant last all mthat long i would think | 02:54 |
penny_ | sure i understand | 02:54 |
penny_ | maybe the government can send people supplies directly like in a war | 02:55 |
IronY | I could go about 8 months on savings even if the gov gave me 0 dollars | 02:55 |
IronY | how ever the gov would give us 2k each a month if we were laid off | 02:55 |
penny_ | nice | 02:55 |
IronY | so honestly, with no entertainment / take out budget, I could come out of this with out taking to much of a hit if it does not last longer than a year | 02:56 |
penny_ | yeah but wouldnt society collapse if a majority of people cant make a living? | 02:56 |
penny_ | maybe we could just cut them checks | 02:56 |
IronY | In canada we are | 02:56 |
penny_ | people arent just going to sit in their house and starve | 02:56 |
IronY | everyone who is not making money is getting basically a univeral income of 2k a month | 02:57 |
penny_ | wow nice | 02:57 |
IronY | they also stopped all student loan payments | 02:57 |
IronY | and the hydro company got rid of off peak hours | 02:57 |
IronY | technically I am going to save money on bills | 02:57 |
penny_ | is this what ur talking about? https://brobible.com/culture/article/canada-stimulus-checks-more-americans/ | 02:58 |
IronY | https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/economic-response-plan.html | 02:58 |
IronY | there are two classes | 02:58 |
IronY | people who already would be eligible for EI (Employment Insurance), which would include me and my wifey | 02:59 |
IronY | and people who are not eligible (self employed, unemployed, under employed, part time with not enough hours etc) | 02:59 |
IronY | everyone gets something | 02:59 |
IronY | the top one gets more | 02:59 |
penny_ | so do you think it could be indefinite then? | 03:00 |
IronY | yep, the advantage of already living in a socialist country | 03:00 |
IronY | the states is trying to do an entire paradigm shift | 03:00 |
IronY | we are just adjusting already existing structures | 03:00 |
penny_ | well this is making me more optimistic | 03:01 |
IronY | Super convenient we legalized pot and tax it | 03:02 |
IronY | sure that helped quite a bit | 03:02 |
penny_ | so by just giving people cash it seems like we could in theory be shutdown for a long time | 03:03 |
IronY | it is going to hurt the people who have saved buckets of money though | 03:04 |
IronY | since inflation will cause those people to technically lose buying power | 03:04 |
penny_ | theyll survive lol | 03:04 |
penny_ | but would it even cause inflation? bc its not even going to replace the wages they were earning before | 03:05 |
IronY | gov has to get money from somewhere | 03:06 |
IronY | so central banks print more money | 03:06 |
IronY | thus devaluing existing money | 03:06 |
penny_ | they could raise taxes | 03:06 |
IronY | lowering taxes is the other part of the stimulus | 03:06 |
IronY | cannot bail people out while taxing them more :P | 03:06 |
penny_ | or cut some non essential spending | 03:06 |
IronY | Oh I am sure that is all part of it | 03:06 |
penny_ | tax them later oc | 03:06 |
IronY | but no matter what, inflation will occur | 03:07 |
penny_ | why do u say that? | 03:07 |
tinwhiskers | if the govt prints money then it will lead to inflation but I don't think that's the only option | 03:07 |
penny_ | ya | 03:07 |
penny_ | raise taxes 1% on the top bracket to pay for it over 10 years or something | 03:07 |
penny_ | its like a war | 03:07 |
tinwhiskers | unfortunately that probably wouldn't help a lot, but it's a good start anyway | 03:08 |
penny_ | spend now for the emergency pay it off later | 03:08 |
IronY | the issue there is: | 03:09 |
IronY | During a war you do this to put money into your war effort / defense budget | 03:09 |
IronY | We are now putting that kinda cash into a covid effort, but our spending on defense should also increase | 03:09 |
penny_ | this is part of the war effort on this virus | 03:10 |
penny_ | supplying our citizens so they can stay home | 03:10 |
IronY | how many wars is the states currently fighting for example | 03:10 |
IronY | this is a global crisis, now is kinda the time u want your borders defended the most | 03:10 |
LjL | the states... increasing... military budget... now? | 03:10 |
IronY | so yeah they can cut back on foreign expenses but they still need to defend foreign investments | 03:10 |
IronY | LjL: Not claiming that, but they are certainly not decreasing I would imagine | 03:11 |
IronY | canada is calling most of its people home | 03:11 |
penny_ | let me do some numbers | 03:11 |
penny_ | i mean wouldnt yang's 1000/mo be enough? | 03:11 |
IronY | lol if the united states said hey, lets just cancle all military defense spending | 03:11 |
penny_ | if we could pay for that with the VAT tax then we could do it now | 03:12 |
IronY | 649 billion dollars | 03:12 |
IronY | becomes instantly available | 03:12 |
IronY | versus italy, at 27.8 | 03:12 |
IronY | and canada at 27.6 | 03:12 |
penny_ | well u could certainly cut some of that nonsene but not the whole budget | 03:12 |
IronY | 21.6* | 03:12 |
IronY | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures | 03:12 |
penny_ | so yeah exactly we have the money right there | 03:13 |
IronY | italy and canadas budgets are nothing compared to the already existing stimulus injections | 03:13 |
penny_ | between a mill budget cut and a modest tax increase we should be able to pay for it | 03:13 |
IronY | the united states could make some money back cutting back | 03:13 |
penny_ | if yang's permanent 1000/mo was affordable than a temporary one should be even more affordable | 03:15 |
penny_ | this way we could shutdown until there's a vaccine or cure | 03:16 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:20 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live update: two deaths take toll to 23 as NSW police say lockdown powers to last at least 90 days – latest news [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/YVYphh | 03:24 |
swift110 | WPW | 03:25 |
swift110 | wow | 03:25 |
swift110 | 90 days really sucls | 03:25 |
tinwhiskers | yeah. 90 days... bummer. | 03:26 |
penny_ | 90 days will almost certainly just be the beginning | 03:29 |
tinwhiskers | yeah | 03:30 |
swift110 | wow | 03:30 |
penny_ | unless govs decide to reopen their economy before a cure or vaccine is found, but that would just mean the curve would steepen again | 03:30 |
tinwhiskers | but there may be a brief easing of restrictions from time-to-time depending on strategy | 03:30 |
penny_ | yeah def | 03:30 |
swift110 | I recently lost my job due to Covid-19a and eagerly look forward to all this being over. | 03:31 |
swift110 | But we can't get to that point if people refuse to apply common sense principles to their life without being told by the government to do so. | 03:32 |
penny_ | https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/will-coronavirus-force-australia-to-have-permanent-ubi-202657769.html | 03:32 |
tinwhiskers | well, the governments are largely just playing delaying tactics at this point | 03:32 |
swift110 | So we don't need people bringing their entire families to the supermarket. | 03:33 |
tinwhiskers | This is a breath of fresh air: https://medium.com/@wpegden/a-call-to-honesty-in-pandemic-modeling-5c156686a64b | 03:33 |
swift110 | Certainly don't bring babies and small children in there | 03:33 |
swift110 | I would say go for a nice nature walk with the kids but then you have the problem of them needing to use the bathroom | 03:34 |
penny_ | >A keen figure-reader will notice something peculiar in Kristof’s figure. At the tail end of his “Social distancing for 2 months” scenario, there is an intriguing rise in the number of infections (could it be exponential?), right before the figure ends. | 03:34 |
penny_ | dood i literally had this exact thought when i saw that graph | 03:34 |
swift110 | I'm upset about this also because I normally have family over and I can't do that for now | 03:35 |
penny_ | tinwhiskers so what do u think we will stay shutdown until a vaccine or cure is found which would likely be a year at least i understand, or would they just accept more deaths at a certain point and reopen with hopefully a lot more hospital capacity | 03:37 |
LjL | don't think any country can stay shut down a year | 03:38 |
LjL | my hope is we can stay shut down until a decent treatment is found | 03:38 |
penny_ | and why exactly is a year too long? | 03:38 |
LjL | because it's exactly 365 days | 03:39 |
Chromanin | income? | 03:39 |
LjL | i mean what should i even say | 03:39 |
penny_ | thats what i thought too but what about just giving out checks? | 03:40 |
LjL | sure let's print nonexistant money | 03:40 |
LjL | why didn't we think of that sooner | 03:40 |
LjL | why work? let's just print money! | 03:40 |
penny_ | well we could sell bonds | 03:40 |
penny_ | and then raise taxes | 03:40 |
LjL | on the virtual money we got from the virtual checks? | 03:41 |
tinwhiskers | penny_: I think we'll have some treatments well before the vaccine is ready | 03:41 |
penny_ | also cut the mill budget some | 03:41 |
penny_ | tinwhiskers wow why do you think that? | 03:41 |
tinwhiskers | or we'll take a risk and fast-track the vaccine testing | 03:41 |
penny_ | if we can print money to fight the iraq war why cant we print money to send out checks? | 03:41 |
penny_ | if we can print money to bail out banks why cant we send out checks? | 03:42 |
penny_ | the money kept working just fine | 03:42 |
penny_ | there wasnt crazy inflation | 03:42 |
ryouma | then you violate stay at home order to deposit it? | 03:42 |
penny_ | ryouma is direct deposit possible? | 03:42 |
twomoon | lol ljl | 03:43 |
penny_ | cant you cash a check with your phone these days? | 03:43 |
LjL | i'll ask again: if we can just survive an indeterminate amount of time without working, by just printing money instead, then why were people even working before? | 03:43 |
tinwhiskers | between *chloroquine, and nafamostat-like drugs with the various mixes of other drugs they have been using I think the death rate will drop quite a bit | 03:43 |
penny_ | well essential workers would be working | 03:43 |
LjL | the problem with THIS is "cashing the check", seriously? | 03:43 |
penny_ | and thats all u could buy | 03:43 |
twomoon | what is nafamostat | 03:43 |
penny_ | tinwhiskers that would help a lot | 03:43 |
tinwhiskers | Nafamostat mesylate (brand name: Fusan), which is the drug used to treat acute pancreatitis, may effectively block the requisite viral entry process the new coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) uses to spread and cause disease (COVID-19). The University of Tokyo announced these new findings on March 18, 2020. | 03:43 |
tinwhiskers | https://www.u-tokyo.ac.jp/focus/en/articles/z0508_00083.html | 03:43 |
ryouma | i don't even know what the usa is doing in iraq and afghanistan exactly. like, what the precise goal is (with no conspiracy theories, just geopolitical expertise). i'd like to. i just don't know the rationale. | 03:44 |
CoronaBot | /r/worldnews: Oceans can be restored to former glory in one generation, finds major study (5053 votes) | https://redd.it/ft1kdg | 03:44 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, *chroloquine isn't proving too great from the little i've followed of the actual trials of it... not sure about the other one you said | 03:44 |
penny_ | ryaneo its complicated do some research | 03:44 |
Chromanin | %data lebanon | 03:44 |
Brainstorm | Chromanin: In all areas, Lebanon, there are 479 cases, 14 deaths (2.9% of cases), 43 recoveries as of April 02, 01:30Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lebanon for time series data. | 03:44 |
penny_ | why all the hate on the checks? | 03:44 |
ryouma | lol is this a real question? --- 18:43 <LjL> i'll ask again: if we can just survive an indeterminate amount of time without working, by just printing money instead, then why were people even working before? | 03:44 |
penny_ | this seems like the most viable way of indefinite shutdown to me | 03:45 |
ryouma | where are you going to get your tp from if nobody works? | 03:45 |
LjL | !r setvotes worldnews 10000 | 03:45 |
CoronaBot | ,01[OK] Successfully changed /r/worldnews min votes to 10000 | 03:45 |
penny_ | tp production must be essential | 03:46 |
LjL | "all the hate on the checks"? | 03:46 |
LjL | this is getting too close to trolling for my taste | 03:46 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: there have been two controlled studies of chloroquine. The first showed no difference but was criticised. The second did show a benefit, but also the treatment they have been using in practice is not just chloroquine, and apparently works even better. It's not looking like just rumours but it's too early to be entirely sure. | 03:46 |
tinwhiskers | I've lost the useful link I had about it. | 03:47 |
twomoon | hmm pancreatitis drugs....seems like a rare class of drug | 03:47 |
penny_ | you seem to just be hoping for miracle ljl | 03:47 |
ryouma | the hydroxy? | 03:47 |
tinwhiskers | LjL is being a realist | 03:47 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, okay... yuriwho linked some kind of preliminary meta-review on hydrochlorequine and it didn't look too encouraging but tbh i have only read the summary | 03:47 |
penny_ | "no country can stay shutdown for a year" ok so then what if it takes that long or longer to develop a vaccine or cure? | 03:47 |
penny_ | no i am tinwhiskers | 03:47 |
LjL | penny_, uhm, YOU seem to be hoping for miracles by thinking that the world can continue working by magic by just "printing checks" | 03:48 |
tinwhiskers | Him being a realist doesn't preclude you also being a realist | 03:48 |
penny_ | its worked that way for close to 100 years | 03:48 |
LjL | no it hasn't | 03:48 |
tinwhiskers | that drive inflation. We do not want hyperinflation | 03:48 |
penny_ | what do you mean? | 03:48 |
LjL | what bollocks are you spouting | 03:48 |
LjL | we haven't been shut down for 100 years | 03:48 |
penny_ | it's not that much money! | 03:48 |
ryouma | are armies doing ok? i would imagine if everybody is quarantined before entering, and never leaves base (big if), and the... whatever they call the stores in armies... decontaminate, then they don't get sick. | 03:48 |
penny_ | no im saying weve had fiat currency for that long | 03:48 |
ryouma | commissary or wahtever | 03:49 |
LjL | fiat currency doesn't mean "keep printing money and don't care about actual lack of any resources backing that money" | 03:49 |
penny_ | yes they print the money and it still works as money | 03:49 |
tinwhiskers | ryouma: there's a navy ship with 100 cases and it's spreading but they are not allowed to dock anywhere | 03:49 |
LjL | oh good lord | 03:49 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:41 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 930,000 as Singapore reports fourth death: Singapore has been praised for its handling of the crisis early by implementing strict quarantine measures and rigorous contact tracing efforts. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/TewjEi | 03:49 |
LjL | move this to some economics channel | 03:49 |
penny_ | i never said that at all | 03:49 |
penny_ | well it's really quite intertwined with the medical side of this | 03:49 |
penny_ | the economics | 03:49 |
twomoon | ljl this was just getting interesting | 03:49 |
LjL | okay then continue listening to nonsense, i'll check back later | 03:50 |
penny_ | if we can print money for a war or a bailout why not basic income? | 03:50 |
twomoon | yeah btw it does seem like chloroquine is always used in conjunction with some other drug. why is that? | 03:50 |
twomoon | i don't get that when that chinese paper suggests that chloroquine allow is quite effective | 03:51 |
ryouma | i'd vote for moving economics talk to economics channels, if i were asked, wihch i wasn't. but, if a high enough income is given to everybody, then i die. just so you know. i have to hire helpers to survive. | 03:51 |
tinwhiskers | without directly printing money you can increase the velocity of money to make it "go further". This does also have an inflationary pressure but given the timeframe we're talking about it may not be so bad. | 03:51 |
twomoon | chloroquine alone* | 03:51 |
twomoon | money velocity doesn't make money go further it just increases the pace of inflation or deflation | 03:52 |
penny_ | its not that much money inflation isnt a big issue | 03:52 |
ryouma | tinwhiskers: what do you do to do that? | 03:52 |
tinwhiskers | you give people money to spend rather than to save | 03:52 |
twomoon | and if people are planning to hoard money increasing velocity just makes ppl hoard faster | 03:52 |
penny_ | higher money velocity with static money supply does indeed increase gdp | 03:53 |
tinwhiskers | you only give them enough that they have to spend it | 03:53 |
penny_ | most of the economy would be shutdown too which is a weird variable | 03:53 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, do you believe any of these things can be sustainable for *a year*? | 03:54 |
ryouma | one thing that disturbs me, not too surprising but still disturbing, is the degree to which this is NOT a blitz spirit type of response to a pandemic, but one in which everybody who has an axe to grind (politicians seeking or keeping power, ideologues pushing for pet theories, dogmatists imposing pet dogmas, etc.) uses the pandemic for the purpose of grinding that axe. discussions of the pandemic then become proxy | 03:54 |
ryouma | discussions for some political thing that isn't really at root about the pandemic. | 03:54 |
tinwhiskers | well, that's pretty much what we're doing now anyway. we shall see. | 03:54 |
twomoon | tinwhiskers: do you think the US makes sense in basing their stimulus amount that each person gets off their 2019 tax return? | 03:55 |
twomoon | that to me makes no sense | 03:55 |
penny_ | LjL just an hour ago i didnt think a year long shutdown was possible either | 03:55 |
tinwhiskers | I think the right thing to do is to keep the economy moving by protecting the most vulnerable and letting the less vulnerable participate at a higher rate than they could otherwise. | 03:55 |
penny_ | now i think it MIGHT be possible ;^) | 03:55 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 01:52 UTC: ljl-covid: Create therapeutics section, for now randomly adding Nafamostat — from r/WorldNews at 01:52: Calgary police charge man over threat to spread COVID-19 to Indigenous people → https://is.gd/PZbCSa | 03:55 |
twomoon | tinwhiskers: that's basically saying give an equal amount of money to everyone. in which case, i think you'd agree that basing the stimulus amount off the 2019 tax return is silly | 03:56 |
twomoon | is nafamostat in the class of statin drugs? | 03:56 |
tinwhiskers | err, I don't know about the US situation. | 03:57 |
twomoon | ok nevermind i can't expect you to know everything | 03:57 |
penny_ | LjL what about the government shipping supplies directly to people | 03:59 |
LjL | penny_, i would be in favor of that because i think supermarkets are a major point of contagion | 04:00 |
ryouma | does not look like it is a statin | 04:01 |
ryouma | quick search | 04:01 |
LjL | but i don't think that solves the economical problem of staying locked down for a year | 04:01 |
penny_ | well what would go wrong? | 04:01 |
LjL | there is also likely a major psychological problem with that, just to mention it | 04:01 |
penny_ | explain | 04:01 |
ryouma | was concerned about this type of thing "Calgary police charge man over threat to spread COVID-19 to Indigenous people" | 04:02 |
marchelzo | based | 04:02 |
LjL | depression. suicides. widespread loss of jobs. hyperinflaction with your money printing. lack of exercise causing deaths from the main standard ailments. lack of sun exposure causing all sorts of mood disorders. | 04:02 |
LjL | i can probably think of other things | 04:02 |
penny_ | hypeinflation makes no sense | 04:02 |
penny_ | demand is in the toilet | 04:02 |
penny_ | everyone wants cash | 04:02 |
LjL | demand is in the toilet? is that why i cannot access supermarket websites, and when i can't, there are no free ordering slots? is that why Amazon is hiring 100k people? | 04:03 |
penny_ | ok so u think we should reopen in no more than a few months regardless of whether there is a vaccine or cure? | 04:03 |
penny_ | the amazon demand is just shifted from other retailers | 04:03 |
penny_ | same with the super market websites | 04:04 |
LjL | yes, i think we should reopen slowly and carefully and/or use an on-off method like the one proposed in the Imperial College paper to keep ICU demand under control | 04:04 |
LjL | while also working to substantially increase ICU and oxygen availability | 04:04 |
penny_ | but that def means more deaths from corona | 04:04 |
LjL | because, from the figure we have, 5% of patients are critical, and if those can be cared for, 2.5% will die. there is also another 5% of patients that don't need ICU, but who will also die without a hospital bed with oxygen. if we cannot give them that, then 10% die instead of 2.5% (these figures may be wrong depending on the actual hidden prevalence, but the proportions should stay) | 04:05 |
LjL | yes, it may also mean fewer deaths from a number of other things | 04:05 |
ryouma | there is an alternate theory, rahter than locking down everybody or not, called heterogenous lockdown, put forth by acouple of academics at cmu | 04:05 |
marchelzo | it's not just put forth by academics at cmu, it's put forth by anyone without brain damage | 04:06 |
ryouma | it at least covers major objections, goes into its assumptions, etc. | 04:06 |
penny_ | "heterogeneous lockdown" on google gives me nothing | 04:07 |
marchelzo | isolate the vulnerable and let the healthy go on living and working normally | 04:07 |
ryouma | i think it might be this paper: http://www.math.cmu.edu/~wes/covid.html | 04:07 |
ryouma | for some definition of paper | 04:07 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 02:00 UTC: ljl-covid: Add Medium article that makes a simple but important point — from r/WorldNews at 02:00: Calgary police charge man over threat to spread COVID-19 to Indigenous people → https://is.gd/m3W7Fw | 04:08 |
twomoon | ljl do you have a backyard where you can sun yourself? | 04:08 |
ryouma | the vulnerable will need to be taken care of properly or they just starve or die from allergies to the food they are given or die from lack of medicine etc. | 04:08 |
penny_ | that also does mean more corona deaths | 04:08 |
ryouma | but it does look like an interesting thesis | 04:08 |
penny_ | https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/19/health/coronavirus-age-victims/index.html | 04:11 |
ryouma | marchelzo: yeas that is about what it is, but it goes into freat detail | 04:11 |
marchelzo | yes i've read it | 04:11 |
ryouma | s/freat/great/ | 04:11 |
marchelzo | it's common sense | 04:11 |
LjL | twomoon, i live in an apartment, i cannot possibly have a backyard... | 04:11 |
penny_ | >And of the 121 patients known to have been admitted to an ICU, 36% were adults ages 45 to 64, while 12% were ages 20 to 44. | 04:11 |
penny_ | its an interesting option but not without major costs marchelzo | 04:12 |
penny_ | more corona deaths | 04:12 |
ryouma | ah upitt and cmu | 04:12 |
marchelzo | penny_: more corona deaths compared to? | 04:12 |
penny_ | shutdown until vaccine or cure | 04:12 |
marchelzo | also, 20-44 makes up the vast majority of positive cases, saying 12% of ICU patients are 20-44 is extremely misleading | 04:13 |
LjL | but true? | 04:13 |
marchelzo | the fatality rate for people under 40 who are not obese and do not have cardiovascular disease is virtually zero | 04:13 |
penny_ | with hospitalization | 04:14 |
tinwhiskers | "<marchelzo> isolate the vulnerable and let the healthy go on living and working normally" - you say this is put forth by anyone without brain damage, but this is not being done anywhere. | 04:14 |
marchelzo | yes it is | 04:14 |
tinwhiskers | where? | 04:14 |
penny_ | what if hospital capacity is exceeded | 04:14 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:06 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live update: two deaths take toll to 23 as NSW police say lockdown powers to last at least 90 days – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 02:06: Calgary police charge man over threat to spread COVID-19 to Indigenous people → https://is.gd/YVYphh | 04:14 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, i also wouldn't begin an argument by stating that anyone disagreeing must be brain damaged, but that might just be me | 04:14 |
marchelzo | Sweden, it's voluntary but that's what they're encouraging. Everything there is still open including ski resorts, restaurants, etc. | 04:14 |
tinwhiskers | the vulnerable are not more isolated than the rest of the people. Everyone is in lockdown, not based on vulnerability | 04:14 |
penny_ | i hadnt even heard of the term before lol | 04:15 |
ryouma | perhaps he is saying that most people are brain damaged | 04:15 |
tinwhiskers | marchelzo: so it's not policy anywher? | 04:16 |
tinwhiskers | so the entire world has brain damage... | 04:16 |
tinwhiskers | I actually totally agree, but it's just not being done. | 04:16 |
marchelzo | Whether or not it's policy means nothing. Look at the current policy in some of the US states. Or Brazil. | 04:16 |
penny_ | i think hes saying a reasonable person would eventually get to that policy | 04:17 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, to be fair, it *seemed* to be policy in the UK, until they confused things up a bit. i couldn't possibly rule out that certain policies are in governments' heads without them stating them because they believe stating them could be counterproductive | 04:17 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: yeah | 04:17 |
LjL | i bet Brazil is doing the right thing here </s> | 04:17 |
penny_ | hes saying that will be the policy sooner or later if leadership is smart | 04:18 |
tinwhiskers | I hope so, but it ain't happening yet | 04:18 |
marchelzo | One of the really smart things that Sweden did IMO is close secondary schools / universities but keep primary schools open | 04:18 |
marchelzo | Also Singapore never closed their schools | 04:19 |
tinwhiskers | I also agree with that. We are on the same page, but for your comment about brain damage. | 04:19 |
tinwhiskers | Clearly most of the world is not doing this | 04:20 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:13 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 930,000 as Singapore reports fourth death: Singapore has been praised for its handling of the crisis early by implementing strict quarantine measures and rigorous contact tracing efforts. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/TewjEi | 04:20 |
LjL | i don't think i agree. i guess i understand the concept, but, at least in my society, i cannot quite fathom how to effectively "protect the vulnerable" while everyone else is basically going about their daily business. we're already seeing nursing homes decimated, despite bans on visiting, just because it's SO easy to get them all infected by just one worker being infected and escaping checks | 04:21 |
marchelzo | I think that's just because a lot of the governments in the west panicked and didn't want to be seen as the one government who didn't take this seriously enough. I think peer pressure has a lot to do with why we're seeing such ridiculous reactions from a lot of leaders. | 04:21 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: they wouldn't go about their normal business, but they would participate more than in total lockdown. i.e. the restrictions would be less, but not removed. | 04:22 |
tinwhiskers | marchelzo: yes, you may be right | 04:22 |
tinwhiskers | The practicalities of isolating everyone over, say 55 is yet to be discussed of course, but... details. :-) | 04:22 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, but if there is no very, very effective isolation of vulnerable people, trying to get younger people infected sooner will just get the older people also infected at pretty much the same time. keep them at home with you? they'll get infected. keep them in nursing homes or some kind of isolation wards? they'll be all together, so first sick worker, they all get infected. | 04:23 |
tinwhiskers | it needs some discussion rather than being rejected outright though. | 04:23 |
penny_ | tinwhiskers seems easier just to send out some cash huh | 04:23 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +612 cases (now 936353), +50 deaths (now 47254), +297 recoveries (now 194286) — Alabama, US: +24 cases (now 1108) — Alaska, US: +10 cases (now 143) | 04:23 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: right. You need to properly isolate them, such as 3 to a room in hotels. | 04:23 |
penny_ | i am very spoiled tho i have a yard | 04:24 |
marchelzo | In my city, I can't go work out at my gym which is used by university students, but my mother can go into multiple nursing homes to do physiotherapy. One of her coworkers, an occupational therapist, was in contact with a known case of COVID-19 and is still going to work at several nursing homes. | 04:24 |
tinwhiskers | or temporary purpose-built accommodation....details. | 04:24 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, i think it's somewhat *vital* details | 04:24 |
marchelzo | Is physiotherapy really *essential* when one tiny mistake could lead to 30%+ of her patients DYING? | 04:24 |
tinwhiskers | they are vital details. I agree. | 04:24 |
marchelzo | Clearly a lot of these policies were rushed and not thought through at all. | 04:25 |
tinwhiskers | but we have to accept that this is something that needs examining more closely if we are to come out of this with any shred of an economy left :-) | 04:25 |
LjL | physiotherapy for patients who'd have potentially fatal damage from lack of it... yeah, essential. otherwise, no. sometimes lines are hard to draw. | 04:25 |
marchelzo | Nobody is going to die from taking a month break from their physiotheraphy sessions | 04:26 |
LjL | a month... | 04:26 |
tinwhiskers | So far this has just been rejected out of hand as too hard, but the principle makes sense. It needs robust modelling. | 04:26 |
marchelzo | You don't risk tens of lives to improve somebody's ankle mobility | 04:26 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, i think the modelling may be there, i'd say what it needs is precise working out of the details. if nothing else, because it will keep being rejected as too hard if details aren't spelled out and found convincing. | 04:27 |
tinwhiskers | I mean modelling including the details | 04:27 |
ryouma | there are already details in existing "solutions" | 04:27 |
ryouma | i'm not sure if this one has more | 04:28 |
ryouma | but yeah modeling has to include the details | 04:28 |
ryouma | the authors ack taht | 04:28 |
penny_ | strikes me as an interesting middle ground | 04:28 |
ryouma | in italy extended family units living together are probably common? | 04:28 |
ryouma | so it might seem more implausible there? | 04:29 |
penny_ | you know who was actually talking about this now that i think about it? donald trumo | 04:29 |
tinwhiskers | Like, how many hotel rooms can we acquire and how much other small-group housing can we get. How many people will be required to service these old folk in a safe manner, etc. | 04:29 |
penny_ | trump | 04:29 |
ryouma | well lots of unemployed now, some even immune | 04:29 |
penny_ | trump was saying something like this, about vulnerable people being isolated but healthy people going to work but with social distancing | 04:29 |
penny_ | washing hands etc | 04:29 |
tinwhiskers | work those things out as feasibility first then model it. It needs people to think about ways to achieve it rather than dismiss it because it's potentially the best approach (potentially not) | 04:29 |
penny_ | and the press killed him for it | 04:29 |
penny_ | but now here's marchelzo saying ud have to be braindead not to think that's what to do | 04:30 |
tinwhiskers | yeah, that's an extreme view | 04:30 |
penny_ | if this is what ends up happening trump is going to look very smart | 04:31 |
penny_ | unless it doesnt work oc | 04:32 |
tinwhiskers | well, he took it out of the UK handbook that was a confused PR disaster | 04:32 |
penny_ | yeah | 04:32 |
penny_ | so where they right all along tho? | 04:32 |
penny_ | were | 04:33 |
tinwhiskers | well, we don't really know without more detailed studies. I fear the concept has been tainted and nobody wants to touch it. | 04:33 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:22 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live update: Scott Morrison announces free childcare – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 02:22: Calgary police charge man over threat to spread COVID-19 to Indigenous people → https://is.gd/YVYphh | 04:33 |
penny_ | yeah the overwhelming sentiment in the press was that it was dumb | 04:33 |
tinwhiskers | yeah, and not just the press. I usually get a lot of abuse when I mention it :-) | 04:34 |
penny_ | "ur putting dollars before lives" etc | 04:34 |
tinwhiskers | right, but it can potentially have a lower death count or the same, but with less economic cost. | 04:34 |
penny_ | when you consider non-corona deaths caused by the shutdown | 04:35 |
penny_ | i get it | 04:35 |
ryouma | my impression of the uk plan was completely different. that one was NOT isolate and protect vulnerable, but rather more like do nothing | 04:35 |
tinwhiskers | I'm certainly not claiming I know if's the best approach (or that any other approach is braindead) but I think it needs a fresh look. | 04:35 |
ryouma | the initial plan | 04:35 |
tinwhiskers | ryouma: I think that's where the confusing PR disaster came in | 04:36 |
penny_ | tinwhiskers these numbers are going to be next to impossible to predict i would think | 04:36 |
tinwhiskers | it's not a simple job | 04:36 |
penny_ | ryaneo the youngins were supposed to get herd immunity was the idea i thought | 04:36 |
marchelzo | The "ur putting dollars before lives" argument is just people taking advantage of the pandemic to make Trump look bad | 04:36 |
penny_ | its way more complicated than that for sure | 04:37 |
tinwhiskers | no. It wasn't about Trump. It was about the UK | 04:37 |
marchelzo | it was also said about Trump a lot | 04:37 |
penny_ | i think that argument was made against both | 04:37 |
tinwhiskers | so not just to make Trump look bad then | 04:37 |
ryouma | the us had more time so it was more about the uk | 04:38 |
twomoon | marchelzo: are you in italy? | 04:38 |
penny_ | in the simple analysis it absolutely means more corona deaths, but its way more complicated than that | 04:38 |
marchelzo | the governor of NY was like "Your mother's life is not expendable, my mother's life is not expendable. We will do everything possible to save as many lives as possible." -- which is obvious bullshit. If you told Cuomo he could re-open NYC tomorrow and it would only result in 1,000 more deaths than the best case he'd do it in a heartbeat. | 04:38 |
tinwhiskers | it doesn't absolutely mean that at all | 04:39 |
marchelzo | twomoon: Canada | 04:39 |
tinwhiskers | oh, ah, ok | 04:39 |
penny_ | how can opening up even a little not lead to more corona deaths? | 04:39 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 02:34 UTC: /u/slakmehl: ABC News Politics su Twitter: "When Prime Minister Boris Johnson developed a cough and fever, he got a test for the new coronavirus. Most other Britons won’t be offered one. https://t.co/P0HExofkgt" — from r/WorldNews at 02:34: Calgary police charge man over threat to spread COVID-19 to Indigenous people → https://is.gd/nb3lSy | 04:40 |
marchelzo | penny_: because the disease doesn't go away until we have a vaccine or cure | 04:40 |
penny_ | right thats what im saying. the way to have the fewest corona deaths is to shutdown as much as possible until then | 04:41 |
tinwhiskers | when you have the people participating only dying at a rate of ~0.1% instead of including the vulnerable people and having people die at a rate of 2% it can save lives | 04:41 |
tinwhiskers | It depends at what level you make the restrictions apply to get the balance right | 04:41 |
penny_ | and to be clear the balance is between what? | 04:41 |
tinwhiskers | the level of restrictions still imposed on people even in the non-vulnerable group. | 04:42 |
tinwhiskers | they can't just go about life as normal | 04:42 |
tinwhiskers | but they can participate somewhat (more than under a lockdown that applies to everyone equally) | 04:43 |
penny_ | so the economic and psychological costs which could lead to death? | 04:43 |
marchelzo | penny_: it's both too late and too non-constitutional to contain the virus to the extent that some asian countries have; we can't halt the deaths. so consider the case where finding a vaccine/cure takes so long that we've come close to herd immunity by the time we have one. then your strategy actually leads to *more* deaths because of the homogeneity. | 04:43 |
tinwhiskers | marchelzo: right | 04:44 |
penny_ | the curve would be flattest that way | 04:44 |
tinwhiskers | maybe | 04:44 |
tinwhiskers | but that's not the goal | 04:44 |
penny_ | how could opening up not spike the curve? | 04:44 |
marchelzo | the area under the curve is the same regardless of how flat it is (ignoring healthcare capacity) | 04:44 |
penny_ | why would u ignore that | 04:45 |
penny_ | but yes i do agree with that | 04:45 |
tinwhiskers | You would be aiming to shorten the time while not increasing the death count. | 04:45 |
penny_ | how long are we talking? | 04:45 |
marchelzo | because the people who go back to work are extremely unlikely to require ICU beds | 04:45 |
tinwhiskers | right | 04:45 |
penny_ | extremely? | 04:45 |
marchelzo | yes | 04:45 |
penny_ | well they do make up a significant chunk of icu patients | 04:45 |
penny_ | but how long would this take marchelzo? | 04:46 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 02:42 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Eric Umansky su Twitter: "NYC is converting *all its public hospitals* in ICU units for COVID-19. "Patients who do not have the virus will be sent to large-scale temporary hospitals or to hotels that are being converted into temporary medical facilities." https://t.co/JtABltXVyp… https://t.co/UAoQgg4P8w" → https://is.gd/2rTrBf | 04:46 |
penny_ | to achieve herd immunity under lockdown | 04:46 |
tinwhiskers | yeah, most will only get minor symptoms and the restrictions aim to assure those that do get serious symptoms do not overload the hospital systems | 04:46 |
marchelzo | say only healthy people under 40 go back to work. we'd see a negligible amount of deaths in that group | 04:46 |
BruntLIVE | Hospitals have the best wipes | 04:46 |
BruntLIVE | full pull | 04:46 |
penny_ | but could we exceed hospital capacity that way marchelzo? | 04:47 |
BruntLIVE | hotels new hospitals | 04:47 |
BruntLIVE | 70% set | 04:47 |
tinwhiskers | that depends how you set the restrictions, in much the same way as we're doing now, but leveraging the differential death rate of younger people. | 04:47 |
marchelzo | ICU numbers and hospitalization numbers are kind of shaky IMO. | 04:47 |
penny_ | great | 04:48 |
penny_ | so... basically impossible to know | 04:48 |
marchelzo | There's so much fear and panic, even (especially) among healthcare workers that a lot of people end up getting admitted to the hospital / ICU when they likely don't need it. | 04:48 |
penny_ | i see | 04:48 |
penny_ | so how do you feel about being on the same page as trump? | 04:49 |
marchelzo | How can there be so many "severe" cases and virtually no deaths in the under 40 and healthy demographic? | 04:49 |
tinwhiskers | The other option is to continue with the complete or stop-go lockdowns and pray a treatment arrives before the vaccine is ready. That might work out. | 04:49 |
penny_ | well cuz of hospitalization | 04:49 |
penny_ | yes | 04:50 |
marchelzo | The "severe" 50-65 cases are hospitalized too. And yet a much higher percentage of them end up dying. | 04:50 |
marchelzo | So clearly "severe" for 20-40 is different from "severe" for 50-65 | 04:50 |
penny_ | the young respond to the treatment better | 04:51 |
LjL | "severe" (a portion thereof) and in particular "ICU" should be taken to mean "will die without proper assistance (oxygen or IRC)". if they DO receive proper assistance, then they are unlikely to die if young, and increasingly likely if old. | 04:51 |
penny_ | right | 04:52 |
marchelzo | There's barely even any treatment. Oxygen? If you end up on a respirator you're probably dead anyway (one chinese study saw 80% of COVID-19 patients who required ventilation die before being discharged) | 04:52 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:50 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live update: Scott Morrison announces free childcare as wide-ranging industrial reforms announced – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 02:50: Calgary police charge man over threat to spread COVID-19 to Indigenous people → https://is.gd/YVYphh | 04:52 |
LjL | oxygen is not the same as a ventilator. | 04:52 |
marchelzo | I didn't say it was | 04:52 |
LjL | you more or less suggested it by saying "oxygen?" followed by an explanation of the supposed uselessness of ventilators | 04:53 |
tinwhiskers | marchelzo: recent figures I saw indicate 50% of people on ventilators recover | 04:53 |
BruntLIVE | Stabbing Of Asian American Toddler And Family Deemed A Hate Crime: Report The teenage suspect reportedly said he thought the family was Chinese and spreading the coronavirus. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stabbing-of-asian-american-toddler-and-family-deemed-a-hate-crime-report_n_5e84b65fc5b6871702a84c0b | 04:53 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, and older figures i saw, too | 04:53 |
marchelzo | I meant "is there anything other than oxygen? and don't say ventilation because . . ." | 04:54 |
LjL | well, good thing i have a likely explodey oxygen machine incoming then | 04:54 |
tinwhiskers | nice :-) | 04:54 |
marchelzo | Also note that a high percentage of patients who require ventilation will survive until discharge but die within a few months | 04:54 |
penny_ | well what treatments are the young people getting besides ventilators? | 04:54 |
tinwhiskers | marchelzo: for small values of "high percentage", maybe | 04:55 |
LjL | marchelzo, we already have data for a few months after discharge? | 04:55 |
danielp3344 | penny_: probably IV hydration? | 04:55 |
tinwhiskers | marchelzo: what do you consider a high percentage? | 04:55 |
marchelzo | LjL: Applies to being on a ventilator for respiratory depression from any cause | 04:55 |
marchelzo | Not just COVID-19 | 04:56 |
penny_ | ur saying the hospital doesnt do the young people any good? | 04:56 |
LjL | penny_, he's saying a very specific thing | 04:57 |
penny_ | theyd survive without it? | 04:57 |
LjL | no | 04:57 |
marchelzo | tinwhiskers: There was a paper that looked at data from thousands of ventilator patients and found that while 50% survived to discharge, only 30% were alive one year later. | 04:57 |
tinwhiskers | no. they have a better average outcome than older people | 04:57 |
penny_ | ok so then some of them would die without hospitalization | 04:57 |
tinwhiskers | yes | 04:57 |
penny_ | so hospital capacity cant be exceeded or else some of them will die | 04:57 |
tinwhiskers | right | 04:58 |
LjL | some of them will die anyway, but, yeah | 04:58 |
danielp3344 | penny_: young as in not old? | 04:58 |
penny_ | i guess 40 is the number we are using? | 04:58 |
marchelzo | I highly doubt hospital capacity would be exceeded. We're talking about people under 40 with no comorbidities. You wouldn't need many ventilators at all. | 04:58 |
tinwhiskers | well, I don't think 40 is a good number to use | 04:58 |
LjL | me neither | 04:58 |
penny_ | what number do u like? | 04:58 |
danielp3344 | penny_: 42 | 04:58 |
danielp3344 | obviously | 04:58 |
LjL | the number Italy is using as a dividing line is 50, but even that seems low to me if you want "most workers" to go back to doing things | 04:59 |
tinwhiskers | that would imply you're talking about extreme isolation on everyone over 40. 40 was just to demonstrate a point, but really we're talking about 50 or thereabouts | 04:59 |
marchelzo | 40-50 is where it goes from being almost harmless to actually having a non-negligible chance of killing you | 04:59 |
penny_ | :) | 04:59 |
marchelzo | why not play it safe | 04:59 |
LjL | i don't call high chances of ending up in hospital "almost harmless", tbh, even if i end up alive | 04:59 |
tinwhiskers | because it will be more likely to be impractical | 05:00 |
marchelzo | or relax the constraints in waves. let <30 go back, then <40, then <50, etc. | 05:00 |
penny_ | if all these people go back to work a lot of them would catch it pretty quick i think | 05:00 |
tinwhiskers | plus 40-50 years olds can be quite productive! | 05:00 |
tinwhiskers | penny_: it's not life as normal | 05:00 |
penny_ | that's true | 05:00 |
marchelzo | LjL: the hospitalization numbers are silly. I watched a youtube video from a doctor treating COVID-19 patients at the biggest hospital in NYC and he said most of the young people in there literally just have a cough | 05:01 |
marchelzo | People are just scared because of the media IMO | 05:01 |
penny_ | those young people are the braindead ones | 05:01 |
penny_ | that is so dumb | 05:01 |
tinwhiskers | :-/ | 05:01 |
penny_ | theyre likely to catch it in the hospital | 05:01 |
danielp3344 | penny_: hey now | 05:01 |
marchelzo | Maybe, or maybe the media are the braindead ones for making a HUGE ordeal out of literally every death involving anybody even remotely young | 05:02 |
penny_ | stay home unless ur quite sick | 05:02 |
penny_ | dont go out to get tested if you just have a cough | 05:02 |
LjL | marchelzo, we have a reasonably large number of young people in hospitals, and our hospitals are WAY overwhelmed. i believe that to be the case in NYC hospitals, too, but i'm not sure. why are those patients not just being discharged if they're taking up important beds? | 05:03 |
LjL | penny_, and yet, the countries that have done widespread, or even almost blanket, testing (in smart ways) are the ones that are faring better | 05:04 |
LjL | correlation doesn't imply causation, but still | 05:04 |
bigfluff | %data oregon | 05:04 |
Brainstorm | bigfluff: In Oregon, US, there are 736 cases, 19 deaths (2.6% of cases), 0 recoveries as of April 02, 02:20Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 05:04 |
swift110 | oh wow | 05:05 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 03:02 UTC: Adding "heterogeneous transmission" paper: (although I don't really think I believe in this, as I can't see how isolation can happen) — from r/WorldNews at 03:02: Number of COVID-19 deaths confirmed by local public health units is nearly double what Ontario is reporting → https://is.gd/aA1jDY | 05:05 |
swift110 | %data Washington DC | 05:05 |
Brainstorm | swift110: Sorry, Washington DC not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 05:05 |
LjL | %data district of columbia | 05:05 |
Brainstorm | LjL: In District Of Columbia, US, there are 586 cases, 11 deaths (1.9% of cases), 0 recoveries as of April 02, 02:57Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=District%20Of%20Columbia for time series data. | 05:05 |
swift110 | thanks | 05:05 |
swift110 | wow 586 cases | 05:05 |
swift110 | Not that far from the total of the entire state of Oregon | 05:06 |
swift110 | less than 70 sq. miles | 05:06 |
LjL | %wa population of oregon | 05:07 |
LjL | %wa population of washington, dc | 05:07 |
Brainstorm | LjL, Wolfram|Alpha (Oregon | population): Result: 4.143 million people (2017) → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+oregon | 05:07 |
Brainstorm | LjL, Wolfram|Alpha (Washington, District of Columbia, United States | city population): Result: 693972 people (country rank: 20th) (2017 estimate) → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+washington%2C+dc | 05:07 |
swift110 | dc has about 600,000 | 05:07 |
swift110 | well close to 700,000 | 05:07 |
swift110 | I used to live there | 05:07 |
swift110 | %data Maryland | 05:08 |
Brainstorm | swift110: In Maryland, US, there are 1985 cases, 31 deaths (1.6% of cases), 0 recoveries as of April 02, 02:20Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 05:08 |
swift110 | good grief | 05:08 |
swift110 | scared to look at New York | 05:08 |
penny_ | even if hospital capacity isnt exceeded doesnt having more young people with it out and about increase the risk of the vulnerable to some extent? | 05:09 |
swift110 | %data New York City | 05:09 |
swift110 | yes penny_ | 05:09 |
Brainstorm | swift110: Sorry, New York City not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 05:09 |
penny_ | i suppose it depends on how good the isolation is | 05:09 |
swift110 | %data New York | 05:09 |
LjL | cities aren't listed | 05:09 |
Brainstorm | swift110: In New York, US, there are 83901 cases, 2219 deaths (2.6% of cases), 0 recoveries as of April 02, 02:20Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 05:09 |
swift110 | Wow! | 05:09 |
LjL | swift110, this is where i live, look at the deaths and not just the cases... | 05:10 |
LjL | %data Lombardy | 05:10 |
Brainstorm | LjL: In Lombardia, Italy, there are 44773 cases, 7593 deaths (17.0% of cases), 11415 recoveries as of April 01, 16:00Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lombardia for time series data. | 05:10 |
penny_ | isnt that one of the hardest hit places? | 05:10 |
LjL | yeah, so is NYC | 05:10 |
swift110 | yeah | 05:10 |
swift110 | NYC is such a hub for travel no wonder | 05:10 |
swift110 | %data florida | 05:10 |
Brainstorm | swift110: In Florida, US, there are 7773 cases, 101 deaths (1.3% of cases), 0 recoveries as of April 02, 02:20Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 05:10 |
penny_ | and ur currently shelting in place there LjL ? | 05:10 |
penny_ | sheltering | 05:10 |
LjL | penny_, for as long as we still get supermarket deliveries, which appears to be... no later than April 10, since the website isn't opening any new slots after that date | 05:11 |
penny_ | that is somewhat dire | 05:12 |
penny_ | im sorry to hear that | 05:12 |
ryouma | where i live, everybody has guns. it's a bit concerning. | 05:13 |
swift110 | ryouma, yeah that is scary | 05:13 |
LjL | hopefully new slots will appear out of nowhere before we run out of food, and we also manage to grab some | 05:13 |
LjL | otherwise, we have five ffp2 masks | 05:13 |
LjL | they were only €65! | 05:13 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:07 UTC: Tesla could help make lithium ion batteries for ventilators to help fight COVID-19, says ResMed CEO Mick Farrell: Amid a COVID-19 pandemic and ventilator shortage, Tesla purchased 1,000 "non-invasive ventilators" made by ResMed to donate to hospitals, explained CEO Mick Farrell. Typically, higher-end ventilators are [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/OBind5 | 05:14 |
penny_ | the wild fire from a couple years back isturning out to have been lucky bc i have masks leftover from that | 05:14 |
penny_ | lucky for me very sad for others of course | 05:15 |
ryouma | why do you need batteries for ventilators except for backup? | 05:15 |
ryouma | i mean, is that a critical part? | 05:15 |
penny_ | gotta be for backup | 05:16 |
swift110 | This stuff is no joke | 05:16 |
penny_ | the un chief says its the biggest crisis since ww2 | 05:16 |
penny_ | https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52114829 | 05:17 |
swift110 | yes it is | 05:19 |
penny_ | and like a war, it cannot be seperated from economic factors | 05:19 |
swift110 | I hope we get some kind of universal income temporarily to help people stay on their feet | 05:19 |
penny_ | we were just talking about that :) | 05:19 |
penny_ | im for it too | 05:20 |
penny_ | most people here seems quite skeptical of it | 05:21 |
bigfluff | In the US, the general tone is "everyone will be okay, everyone will work together" but very little is being structured in terms of actual plan | 05:25 |
penny_ | there are no good options | 05:26 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:20 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live update: Scott Morrison announces free childcare as wide-ranging industrial reforms announced – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 03:20: Thousands of US sailors on coronavirus-riddled USS Theodore Roosevelt allowed to disembark in Guam → https://is.gd/YVYphh | 05:30 |
IronY | ljl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4no04822NQ&list=WL&index=111 | 05:34 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:29 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 930,000 as Singapore reports fourth death: Singapore has been praised for its handling of the crisis early by implementing strict quarantine measures and rigorous contact tracing efforts. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/TewjEi | 05:37 |
swift110 | only four deaths in a population that high | 05:38 |
IronY | Cannot even make this shit up | 05:42 |
IronY | https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/truck-full-of-toilet-paper-crashes-catches-fire-on-texas-highway-1.4878106?fbclid=IwAR2qSmQVIoq9N7MighckA2DDNV1BGcFRGKwRgk9sYq3QlkZEKG59T6xTT28 | 05:42 |
IronY | %title | 05:42 |
Brainstorm | IronY: From www.ctvnews.ca: Truck full of toilet paper crashes, catches fire on Texas highway | CTV News | 05:42 |
marchelzo | Hong Kong has diagnosed 640 people with COVID-19 since March 10 but they haven't had a single death since March 13 | 05:45 |
marchelzo | Makes you think | 05:47 |
IronY | I have decided I am going to put some positive energy out into the world lol, there WILL BE AT LEAST some good news tomorrow *crosses fingers* | 05:47 |
IronY | Nothing is 100% for sure anymore, except that Carol 100% killed her first husband | 05:52 |
CoronaBot | /r/worldnews: Queen of Malaysia has been cooking for hospital workers (10290 votes) | https://redd.it/ft8zyr | 06:01 |
BobCat | Thunderf00t's video today seemed to be some hopeful news | 06:03 |
IronY | link | 06:04 |
BobCat | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRbSdHQnVNY | 06:04 |
BobCat | %title | 06:07 |
Brainstorm | BobCat: From www.youtube.com: Coronavirus update Apr 1: Actual signs of hope! - YouTube | 06:07 |
IronY | That u sir | 06:10 |
____GOD____ | A scientific paper about a "gain-of-function" bat virus modification project that involved an employee of Wuhan Institute of Virology: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4797993/ :"to examine the emergence potential (that is, the potential to infect humans) of circulating bat CoVs, we built a chimeric virus encoding a novel, zoonotic CoV spike protein—from the RsSHC014-CoV sequence that was isolated from Chinese horseshoe bats" | 06:19 |
____GOD____ | And another paper involving same Wuhan lab employee: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature12711 | 06:20 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:05 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live update: Scott Morrison announces free childcare as wide-ranging industrial reforms announced – latest news [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/YVYphh | 06:20 |
____GOD____ | "Isolation and characterization of a bat SARS-like coronavirus that uses the ACE2 receptor" | 06:20 |
____GOD____ | Yes, a Wuhan lab had isolated a bat coronavirus that had ACE2 receptor capability...years ago | 06:21 |
____GOD____ | Same lab in Wuhan also submitted the most identical genome sequence to sars-cov-2 to the NCBI genome database | 06:22 |
____GOD____ | Link to that sequence: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/MN996532 | 06:23 |
____GOD____ | And the story in scientific American that a beijing writer wrote about that Wuhan lab employee, seemingly to try to gain prestige...while actually showing that she is EXTREMELY suspect: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/ | 06:24 |
____GOD____ | And an opinion article: https://harvardtothebighouse.com/2020/03/23/no-monkey-ever-reheated-a-frozen-burrito-what-the-expanse-tells-us-about-the-covid-19-pandemic/ | 06:25 |
____GOD____ | That does seem to have a lot of confirmed info | 06:26 |
ryouma | i'm an atheist though. so, you know. | 06:32 |
____GOD____ | Then kiss a chinese guy today | 06:35 |
____GOD____ | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCOx-hewCcc&feature=youtu.be | 06:35 |
____GOD____ | An italian video from 2015. | 06:35 |
____GOD____ | Can use youtube translator for subtitles | 06:36 |
____GOD____ | (about chinese labs enhancing bat coronaviruses) | 06:36 |
marchelzo | >Yes, a Wuhan lab had isolated a bat coronavirus that had ACE2 receptor capability...years ago | 06:38 |
marchelzo | lmao SARS was like 17 years ago | 06:38 |
marchelzo | why is that supposed to be shocking | 06:38 |
____GOD____ | Because that means no intermediate host was required | 06:39 |
____GOD____ | Unlike sars | 06:39 |
____GOD____ | Straight from bats to chinese | 06:39 |
____GOD____ | Or possibly through some ferrets in a lab and then to the chinese in wuhan | 06:40 |
____GOD____ | That could explain the slight difference in the most similar sequence published by that lab | 06:41 |
____GOD____ | That and the mutation caused by it jumping to another species | 06:41 |
IronY | ____GOD____: The people in this channel are generally intelligent enough that joining and claiming alarmist links with common knowledge information with a spin is probably not gonna get u the result u were looking for | 06:43 |
IronY | may I suggest dalnet? | 06:43 |
____GOD____ | I recommend NOT attempting such attempts at coercion by attempting to harness egos | 06:44 |
____GOD____ | Yes, go to dalnet instead of here. Thanks in advance | 06:44 |
IronY | You are not using that word properly | 06:45 |
IronY | :/ | 06:45 |
____GOD____ | If irony is too inept to understand those papers, he/she shouldn't try to drag others down | 06:45 |
____GOD____ | Although obviously he/she may be on a bio-research payroll | 06:46 |
IronY | Lol there we go | 06:46 |
____GOD____ | Or has other self-interested reasons for lying | 06:46 |
IronY | LjL: ^ | 06:46 |
____GOD____ | I posted links to peer reviewed papers | 06:47 |
____GOD____ | That is called "science" | 06:47 |
____GOD____ | Richard Ebright (molecular biologist) answered "YES" to this question today: Could passing the batcovratg13 through a series of hosts in a lab, such as ferrets, produce that sort of 3.x percent mutation from batcovratg13 found in sars-cov-2? | 06:56 |
____GOD____ | So that is SOLVED AND PROVEN | 06:56 |
marchelzo | so why aren't any of the more immediate ancestors in a database? | 07:04 |
Albright | Are we actually able to document every generation of a virus? | 07:05 |
Albright | Especially before we know they'd become relevant? | 07:05 |
tinwhiskers | nope. all animals have a multitude of viruses. any expedition into the wild will usually result in the discovery of several new viruses | 07:07 |
marchelzo | yeah but this virus seems relatively stable and 96.x% similarity is many mutations off of SARS-CoV-2 | 07:09 |
marchelzo | and this was happening in a lab where they were allegedly studying viruses? | 07:09 |
tinwhiskers | Here's a great article on one such expedition: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/ | 07:09 |
penny_ | i was thinking marchelzo, by keeping the curve as flat as possible, we keep the rate of mutation lower | 07:09 |
IronY | -from what I understand covid has a very low rate of mutation compared to past pandemics | 07:10 |
penny_ | i read that too. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/low-coronavirus-mutations-mean-hope-for-a-single-vaccine.html | 07:11 |
penny_ | >It is possible that a small mutation in the virus could have outsize effects in the clinical outcome of covid-19, the experts say. That has been known to happen with other viruses. But there’s no sign this is happening with the novel coronavirus. | 07:12 |
tinwhiskers | ____GOD____: because something is possible doesn't prove that's what happened. | 07:13 |
tinwhiskers | (do I smell a troll?) | 07:14 |
IronY | tinwhiskers: dammit I had cut him off of food, u just fed it, its after mightnight man lol | 07:14 |
tinwhiskers | ooops | 07:14 |
IronY | lol | 07:14 |
penny_ | this scientist is saying "Yes. The observed rate of mutation (about 2 mutations per month) is completely normal for a virus. Flu and the common cold have similar mutation rates. Even a bit faster for flu." | 07:16 |
IronY | well finally a covid positive outcome | 07:16 |
IronY | due to everyone being at home, most steam VR games have been cracked | 07:16 |
penny_ | https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1243914388433547264?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1243914388433547264&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.9news.com.au%2Fworld%2Fcoronavirus-research-finds-covid19-mutating-experts-warn-against-panic-about-new-strains%2Fd9dc2d05-0dd3-4b3b-9f2d-00849257e587 | 07:16 |
IronY | guess Ill give it a go tomorrow | 07:16 |
tinwhiskers | \o/ | 07:17 |
Albright | As a developer I politely request that you do not pirate the products of my peers. :( | 07:19 |
IronY | we killed god! | 07:19 |
tinwhiskers | the writing was on the wall for GOD anyway | 07:19 |
IronY | Albright: I am also a developer, I will pirate games as I please to try them for an hour, if there not complete and utter shit, I will buy them | 07:19 |
IronY | Albright: as a developer remind ur peers to stop releasing broken products at full price | 07:20 |
penny_ | its not the devs fault the products are broken | 07:21 |
IronY | sure it is, we are paid money, and it is our choice if that money is worth our credibility | 07:21 |
IronY | I have walked off jobs for shotty products | 07:22 |
IronY | everyone has a choice | 07:22 |
penny_ | i think its mostly about what the devs are being told to do by the higher ups | 07:22 |
penny_ | the time theyre being given, etc | 07:22 |
IronY | Again I am a Sr Software engineer and College Professor in the Computer science department | 07:23 |
penny_ | but you have experience in the private sector too? | 07:23 |
IronY | Private (as employee and consultant) and even a little stint in public | 07:24 |
IronY | I have been in private 90% of my career | 07:24 |
penny_ | so you know that decisions made by corperate people can doom a project im sure | 07:24 |
IronY | yes, and I know it is the choice of the people doing the work if they want to remain there and take the money | 07:24 |
IronY | if ur good at this job, its not hard to find another job | 07:24 |
penny_ | ok but you see what im saying that there was nothing any dev could have done about it | 07:25 |
IronY | he could of quit | 07:25 |
penny_ | whichever devs were on that job the product would be bad | 07:25 |
IronY | so again, I am going to pirate games until I know they are good | 07:25 |
IronY | and reward to companies that are good | 07:25 |
IronY | the devs get paid regardless | 07:25 |
IronY | so this conversation is moot | 07:25 |
penny_ | im just standing up for the poor devs ok lol | 07:26 |
IronY | oh yeah but like, its the poor devs that doing most of the piracy lol | 07:26 |
penny_ | lol | 07:26 |
IronY | I am never going to pay for the Skyrim VR i just pirated | 07:26 |
IronY | wanna know why | 07:26 |
penny_ | buggy? | 07:26 |
IronY | Because I own it on steam, i own it on ps3, i own it on ps4, and I own it on the nintendo switch | 07:27 |
IronY | i bought that game 5 times | 07:27 |
IronY | bethesda does not need another 69 dollars for the same content | 07:27 |
IronY | the devs that made it did not get paid 5 times | 07:27 |
IronY | just the publisher | 07:27 |
penny_ | yeah for real most of the money you spend on a game doesnt go to the devs just like most of the money youd spend on a cd doesnt go to the artist | 07:28 |
penny_ | but it does keep the industry as a whole going | 07:28 |
IronY | yeah, but sometimes companies do need to fail | 07:28 |
IronY | example: Bethesda lol | 07:28 |
IronY | If everyone pirated EA games for a solid year so we can get rid of EA it would be a net gain for that industry as a whole | 07:29 |
penny_ | hehe | 07:29 |
IronY | would result in smaller private studios with fair wages and less grind | 07:29 |
penny_ | what's a fair wage? | 07:29 |
IronY | penny_: depends on the scope of work, in this situation a fair wage is normally you work a actual 40 hour work week and get a full time position | 07:30 |
IronY | not you work an 120 hour work week on a 40 hour salary at a promise of a full time position | 07:30 |
IronY | which is how they play it a lot of the times | 07:30 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:20 UTC: Coronavirus: at a glance: A summary of the biggest developments in the global coronavirus outbreak — from r/WorldNews at 05:20: 44 Texas Students Have Coronavirus After Spring Break Trip → https://is.gd/S3z1gE | 07:30 |
IronY | I just wanna point out, for the first time in history, it is ok to wish death on a bunch of dumb 20 somethings that went on spring break | 07:31 |
IronY | I have never heard so many people say "I hope those kids die" in my life | 07:31 |
oguzkoroglu | !cases World | 07:35 |
CovBot | In World there have been a total of 936,772 cases as of 2020-04-02 04:39:00 UTC. Of these 694,932 (74.2%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 194,578 (20.8%) have definitely recovered and 47,262 (5.0%) have died. | 07:35 |
BobCat | All those #okboomer idiots must really be happy boomers invented the Internet, right? | 07:36 |
penny_ | ok boomer | 07:37 |
BobCat | I condemn thee to 1995 AOL | 07:37 |
BobCat | dial up, cowboy | 07:37 |
penny_ | during the golden age of usenet and irc nice | 07:37 |
BobCat | Vint Cerf has the covid btw | 07:38 |
____GOD____ | Here is a photo of zhengli shi, the employee from wuhan institute of virology: http://www.omso2o.com/ueditor/php/upload/oms1/image/20200207/1581054899740299567.png | 07:41 |
____GOD____ | If she doesn't believe in personal hygiene, then.... | 07:41 |
cfdisk | You guys think this new pandemic is a bioweapon ? | 07:42 |
jbjllk | trump cia china delvery | 07:44 |
____GOD____ | Sadly that woman was allowed to endanger the public | 07:46 |
cfdisk | I saw yesterday on the news a Harvard Teacher was Arrested by FBI has connection with a university of wuhan where this pandemic came from. | 07:46 |
____GOD____ | I wouldn't let that woman near My kids at first glance | 07:46 |
cfdisk | What woman ____GOD____ ? | 07:47 |
IronY | Thats the shittiest bot chain I have ever seen | 07:47 |
____GOD____ | http://www.omso2o.com/ueditor/php/upload/oms1/image/20200207/1581054899740299567.png | 07:47 |
cfdisk | LOL | 07:47 |
IronY | man this guy must be a crap programmer lol | 07:47 |
cfdisk | is a BOT? | 07:47 |
cfdisk | LMAO | 07:48 |
____GOD____ | cfdisk: lieber was supposed paid A LOT of cash by the chinese government | 07:48 |
____GOD____ | (that harvard prof) | 07:48 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:40 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live update: Scott Morrison announces free childcare as death toll rises to 24 – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 05:40: 44 Texas Students Have Coronavirus After Spring Break Trip → https://is.gd/YVYphh | 07:48 |
cfdisk | Hold on.. I thought you was a bot. | 07:48 |
IronY | free childcare at 24, free children at 240 | 07:49 |
____GOD____ | Supposedly the chinese government paid him about 150,000 US DOLLARS per month or something | 07:49 |
cfdisk | ____GOD____, thats true.. he probably rich, but I don't think he will be able to use his money now.. Lol | 07:49 |
tinwhiskers | ____GOD____: take it to ##coronavirus-vox | 07:49 |
____GOD____ | Actually not sure if he was from America, or was an immigrant | 07:49 |
____GOD____ | What? I was simply answering a question cfdisk asked | 07:50 |
cfdisk | I don't know, Not sure if he was involved with this covid19 | 07:50 |
____GOD____ | I am not saying he was. No connection found | 07:51 |
cfdisk | yep | 07:51 |
yuriwho | hello GOD | 07:51 |
tinwhiskers | both of you, please take the conspiracy theories to another channel. | 07:51 |
____GOD____ | I am not interested in "conspiracy theories" | 07:51 |
yuriwho | yes you are | 07:52 |
penny_ | conspiracies happen | 07:52 |
tinwhiskers | I'm not debating this. No more. Last warning. | 07:52 |
____GOD____ | Richard Ebright emailed Me today confirming there is no "conspiracy" about the lab necessary | 07:52 |
____GOD____ | Anybody here that doesn't believe a well known and reputable molecular biologist at Rutgers should NOT be an op in this chan | 07:53 |
cfdisk | LOL | 07:53 |
____GOD____ | I think it seems obvious that freenode may need to remove some ops in these chans | 07:54 |
IronY | I think it is possible your hosting provider will be removing you | 07:54 |
IronY | but we all have thoughts | 07:54 |
cfdisk | Should be free talk. | 07:54 |
tinwhiskers | ##coronavirus-vox is a great place to discuss those sorts of things, but not here. Just go there and discuss it to your heart's content. | 07:55 |
cfdisk | What I should discuss in here ? | 07:55 |
tinwhiskers | if you want to debate this do it in PM. the channel does not need a meta-discussion on this. | 07:57 |
cfdisk | What I should discuss in here ? | 07:57 |
tinwhiskers | Overwhelmingly people here talk about evidence-based information about covid-19, not FUD and conspiracies. | 07:58 |
cfdisk | K | 07:58 |
IronY | There the same ppl btw | 07:59 |
IronY | or at least 'working together' | 07:59 |
tinwhiskers | ah. right | 07:59 |
____GOD____ | Wait a second..."evidence based information"...such as all the scientific papers I posted from NCBI and nature and so on? | 07:59 |
IronY | MrNodeBot: quote add Mode ##covid-19 [+q ____GOD____!*@*] by tinwhiskers | 08:00 |
IronY | ^ This is how religion ended | 08:00 |
tinwhiskers | :-/ | 08:01 |
IronY | I am sorry but that was the best mode line I have ever read in my over 20 year history on this protocol lol | 08:01 |
tinwhiskers | lol | 08:01 |
penny_ | https://thebulletin.org/2020/03/experts-know-the-new-coronavirus-is-not-a-bioweapon-they-disagree-on-whether-it-could-have-leaked-from-a-research-lab/ | 08:03 |
IronY | penny_: we are all aware deep down that anyting is a possibility here, It is more it is less a productive train of thought right now | 08:03 |
IronY | step 1: survive | 08:04 |
IronY | s/productive/unproductive | 08:04 |
IronY | if you go down that rabbit hole, walls of text without substance and just proposition will be generated, thus there is an actual channel dedicated to it where people who do want to participate in those conversations are free to do so | 08:05 |
IronY | tldr, no one is saying don't talk about conspiracy theories because there conspiracy theories, more, just talk about them elsewhere | 08:05 |
penny_ | well this article does a pretty good job of laying out the different positions and arguments about this | 08:06 |
IronY | penny_: there are going to be videos on that topic generated daily for the rest of your life | 08:07 |
IronY | when and if this pandemic ends, it will be all anyone talks about | 08:07 |
penny_ | ok well i hope someone in the channel finds the article interesting | 08:07 |
IronY | it could actually very much be a tipping point of world war | 08:07 |
penny_ | i did | 08:07 |
IronY | lol | 08:07 |
IronY | I just wanna live through A before I worry about B, but thats my opinion | 08:07 |
penny_ | china-us relations will be different after this no doubt | 08:08 |
IronY | everycountry relations will be different after this | 08:08 |
IronY | I was just reading some local news | 08:08 |
IronY | about people calling the cops on people out here | 08:09 |
IronY | re: social distancing | 08:09 |
IronY | Couples coming home from florida on forced isolation for 14 days getting letters in their mail telling them to get the fuck out of the neibiourhood in the hand writing of the ones they thought friends | 08:09 |
IronY | People are basically buckling, and there only 2 weeks in | 08:10 |
penny_ | things are bleak | 08:10 |
xionbox[m] | ^^^ | 08:20 |
Albright | IronY: Are you saying that neighbors of people in forced isolation are writing hate mail to them? | 08:25 |
IronY | Albright: It is basically world war 2 level germany sentiment, yes | 08:25 |
yuriwho | you should see the death threats I get by PM in IRC ;-) | 08:25 |
Albright | Man, screw that. It's not like these people have a choice. | 08:26 |
Albright | Some people really are susceptible to government accusation. Damn. | 08:26 |
IronY | Albright: the government admits its part of the problem | 08:26 |
IronY | with its constantly changing and often conflicting information | 08:26 |
BobCat | wear a face mask for gods sake | 08:28 |
BobCat | how goddamn many people have who and cdc murdered so far... | 08:29 |
IronY | BobCat: It would not be considered murder | 08:30 |
IronY | "Criminally Negligent Homicide" | 08:31 |
BobCat | 2nd manslaughter? | 08:31 |
tinwhiskers | yeah, I think "murder" is getting a bit sensationalist but they have not done a good job, for sure. | 08:31 |
BobCat | tinwhiskers does you nick refer to ROHS solder? | 08:31 |
IronY | I can kind of understand governments not doing a good job | 08:31 |
Albright | Defund WHO until they fire Teddy-bear. | 08:31 |
tinwhiskers | BobCat: partly, yeah | 08:31 |
IronY | I mean, governments at most levels were not really planning for something like this | 08:32 |
IronY | the WHO how ever | 08:32 |
IronY | It is one of their primary charters | 08:32 |
BobCat | I am hoarding n95 and leaded solder | 08:32 |
tinwhiskers | :-) | 08:32 |
IronY | BobCat: I never thought to inventory my solder | 08:32 |
IronY | BobCat: Ill trade you some 99.99 Isprop for some n95 | 08:32 |
IronY | lol | 08:32 |
BobCat | I have leadfree for plumbing only | 08:32 |
tinwhiskers | I always used lead and it never | 08:33 |
Albright | I'll trade you six rolls of TP for one. | 08:33 |
tinwhiskers | Oh, hi BobCat. Do I knwo you? | 08:33 |
IronY | Albright: throw in a few surgical masks and Ill raise you an additional box of kleenex | 08:33 |
Albright | No, I'm trying to get the masks. I'm good on paper products. | 08:33 |
IronY | I have accepted n95 masks are basically like unicorns at this point | 08:34 |
tinwhiskers | There are no masks to buy in my country. A few chinese shop workers have some | 08:34 |
tinwhiskers | I have a fabric mask, which is better than nothing for protecting other people. | 08:34 |
BobCat | I'm the BobCat from https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/picking-the-bridge | 08:34 |
IronY | I have a n95 mask | 08:34 |
IronY | i used it a few times spray painting | 08:35 |
IronY | I have no idea how long these things degrade | 08:35 |
IronY | so I am not 100% trusting it | 08:35 |
IronY | I am using it once every 2 weeks | 08:35 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +662 cases (now 937314), +15 deaths (now 47273), +21 recoveries (now 194599) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239) — Australia: +18 cases (now 5124), +1 deaths (now 24) | 08:35 |
tinwhiskers | ooh, nice BobCat | 08:35 |
tinwhiskers | I did a correspondence locksmith course and got some lock picks, but frankly never got particularly good at it. | 08:36 |
BobCat | My friend started the lockpicking craze at Defcon, and the .eu peeople who had been doing it for a few years joined in at defcon and HOPE | 08:38 |
tinwhiskers | IronY: are you treating it any way after use or just using time as your agent? | 08:39 |
BobCat | oh there's a video on disinfecting let me find it | 08:39 |
IronY | tinwhiskers: I am using time as the agent but at the same time as the agent, it was actually 3 weeks between the last two uses | 08:39 |
twomoon | hi IronY | 08:39 |
IronY | bonjour | 08:40 |
IronY | tinwhiskers: that being said, I have not put myself in any overly exposed positions with it | 08:40 |
tinwhiskers | good plan | 08:40 |
IronY | the one time I had to go into a gas station I just used a cotton bandana at a double layer | 08:40 |
BobCat | ok watch this guy's last few videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLWBG_fbJR0 | 08:40 |
IronY | not 100% | 08:40 |
IronY | but at least I knew it was clean and washable | 08:40 |
BobCat | He's a supre genius who explins every tiny detail | 08:41 |
tinwhiskers | We come out of lockdown on Sunday and I have to go see the doctor then, but I'm not going anywhere near the shops with throngs of people about. | 08:41 |
SycophantFetish[ | I believe heat at 160F or time is a best bet. Otherwise, I would never re-use one :( | 08:41 |
IronY | tinwhiskers: Oh so far it has been a good experience | 08:41 |
IronY | the one time i went to the gas station was 3 am | 08:41 |
IronY | so it was me, and the guy working at the gas station behind a plastic shield | 08:41 |
twomoon | how's your sickness doing tinwhiskers | 08:41 |
BobCat | the crappt rubber bands 3m puts on their masks bfreks after a day | 08:41 |
IronY | the second time it was to pickup groceries I preorderd | 08:41 |
tinwhiskers | twomoon: much the same still | 08:42 |
twomoon | wow that's a long time | 08:42 |
tinwhiskers | yeah. This doctor thinks I merely have gastritis and reflux has gone into my lungs at night and burned them. | 08:42 |
SycophantFetish[ | Yep, that's what concerns me about the heat with the 3M masks | 08:43 |
tinwhiskers | I'm not sure if I'm sceptical or not but I'm giving the idea a fair go. | 08:43 |
twomoon | what a bizarre diagnosis | 08:43 |
tinwhiskers | I'm hoping he's right really :-) | 08:44 |
twomoon | do you feel like it's mild bronchitis? | 08:45 |
BobCat | tinwhiskers I keep water with bicarb next to the bed, instant relief. none of the pepcid or antacid do shit for me | 08:45 |
tinwhiskers | That's what it feels like but he can't find anything to back that up | 08:46 |
twomoon | my mom had bronchitis that just wouldn't go away | 08:46 |
BobCat | nothing worse than waking up with a trachea full of acid | 08:46 |
twomoon | she had to take budesonide and albuterol for 3 weeks before seeing any effect | 08:46 |
tinwhiskers | If it doesn't come right I have to go to the hospital for an x-ray. Dum dum de dum dumm duuuuuum. People die there. | 08:46 |
tinwhiskers | we don't have anything more advance than x-ray here | 08:47 |
tinwhiskers | *advanced | 08:47 |
twomoon | damn | 08:47 |
IronY | tinwhiskers: I was reading a paper about the thought their is a second, less sever gastrointestinal variant going around | 08:47 |
IronY | I cannot find the source though, but had anyone else encountered it? | 08:48 |
IronY | s/their/there | 08:48 |
tinwhiskers | Blood tests too... last time I went to the hospital for a blood test they took a needle out of ethanol, not a sealed packet. I can't be sure, but I think they are saving money. | 08:48 |
twomoon | dear god | 08:48 |
BobCat | the guy advising Merkel said that IronY | 08:48 |
BobCat | he does a pdocast daily now in german, i heard about it on the bbc last night | 08:49 |
IronY | With all the typos in that sentence I managed to get gastrointestinal right | 08:49 |
IronY | that is impressive | 08:49 |
BobCat | if you get the virus in your gi tract you have time to make antibodies, if it goes in your lungs, nope | 08:49 |
IronY | that would explain why there are weird claims of smoking being a detterent | 08:50 |
tinwhiskers | that's contradictory to the mortality outcomes though | 08:50 |
BobCat | smoking has to make it worse... hand to mouth constaly, etc | 08:50 |
IronY | BobCat: Oh I have not had a smoke outside my home since the end of feb | 08:50 |
IronY | thats just crazy talk | 08:51 |
tinwhiskers | it's a weird one, but may have some truth... smokers paradox kinda thing maybe | 08:51 |
CoronaBot | /r/worldnews: Shenzhen becomes first city in China to ban consumption of cats and dogs (10360 votes) | https://redd.it/ftflyf | 08:51 |
IronY | tinwhiskers: well my logic here is | 08:51 |
IronY | My lungs are coated with slimey goo | 08:51 |
IronY | droplet gets caught on said goo | 08:51 |
IronY | I smoker caugh up said goo | 08:51 |
IronY | I swallow said goo | 08:51 |
tinwhiskers | heh. yeah | 08:51 |
IronY | If on the 0.1% chance that ends up being a thing | 08:51 |
IronY | please make sure I get credit | 08:52 |
BobCat | maybe my acid reflux will destroy the pathogen | 08:52 |
tinwhiskers | so, yeah, it may have some sort of prophylactic effect but if you do get the virus it turns out worse for you. | 08:52 |
IronY | tinwhiskers: technically in the order of things | 08:52 |
IronY | Non smokers -> Current smokers - | 08:52 |
IronY | > former smokers | 08:52 |
IronY | according to some chian numbers that is | 08:52 |
tinwhiskers | ah | 08:52 |
IronY | Former smokers have it worse than current smokers due to the lungs having extra ACE2 | 08:53 |
tinwhiskers | o.O | 08:53 |
IronY | healed lung tissue = high in ace2 | 08:53 |
BobCat | I take an ACE2 blocker though | 08:53 |
tinwhiskers | " | 08:53 |
IronY | BobCat: I would still rather be an ex smoker at this point, these are just numbers that comfort me | 08:54 |
tinwhiskers | fair | 08:54 |
BobCat | I quit smoking with vaping then snus | 08:54 |
IronY | I have a vape, it makes me caugh | 08:54 |
IronY | caughing makes me think i am dying | 08:54 |
IronY | thinking I am dying makes me smoke more | 08:54 |
BobCat | you need a gentler vpe | 08:54 |
tinwhiskers | I quit when my lungs burned like hell if I smoked | 08:54 |
BobCat | juul is a good choice but expensive | 08:55 |
SycophantFetish[ | BobCat - did the same thing here quit smoking via vape and then just threw it off a cliff one drunk night. Never went back. | 08:56 |
tinwhiskers | BobCat: from what I've heard having bicarb (or antacids, which are bicarb) gives you too much sodium, which can make your reflux worse in the long run. | 08:57 |
BobCat | i heard pepcid etc make it worse. bicarb is instant relief, i take the ace2 blocker for BP and HCTZ for the sodium | 08:58 |
tinwhiskers | yeah, it does give instant relief | 08:59 |
twomoon | does potassium help? | 08:59 |
BobCat | 110/70 instead of 180/130 now | 08:59 |
BobCat | the hctz manages the potassium levels, you're not supposed to use opotassium salt with the *sartans | 09:00 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 06:42 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: US deaths surpass 5,000 as global infections top 930,000: The U.S. has the most number of reported cases globally at over 216,000, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/TewjEi | 09:00 |
SycophantFetish[ | BobCat: thanks for that vid and it's excellent info | 09:07 |
IronY | %title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FadfT_UCzKY | 09:12 |
Brainstorm | IronY: From www.youtube.com: Coronavirus Hits PC Hardware Manufacturing Hard: Z490, AM4, & Computex - YouTube | 09:12 |
IronY | Gamers Nexus, lol they refer to it has 'The Human Malware Virus" | 09:13 |
BobCat | SycophantFetish[ yw | 09:15 |
genera | SycophantFetish[, which video if i may ask | 09:16 |
BobCat | "tech Ingredients" youtube channel | 09:16 |
BobCat | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLWBG_fbJR0 | 09:17 |
BobCat | he did a series | 09:17 |
genera | tnx | 09:18 |
BobCat | he's done damned video about near everything | 09:18 |
BobCat | making whiskey, solar air conditiong, thermal paste better than arctic silver... | 09:18 |
BobCat | $20 hifi speakers... | 09:19 |
SycophantFetish[ | Anyone making good spirits is an instant sub for me ;) | 09:19 |
SycophantFetish[ | Never heard of him but love his style and approach | 09:20 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +418 cases (now 937732), +7 deaths (now 47280), +544 recoveries (now 195143) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239) — Armenia: +92 cases (now 663), +2 recoveries (now 33) | 09:21 |
IronY | its going down | 09:29 |
IronY | I'm yelling timber | 09:29 |
IronY | They gotta move | 09:29 |
IronY | Killed | 09:29 |
mefistofeles | matrix :/ | 09:30 |
IronY | never seen killed before | 09:30 |
BobCat | 30 years on irc and what is this... | 09:31 |
IronY | I promised not to express my opinions on this topic ;) | 09:32 |
mefistofeles | haha | 09:33 |
mefistofeles | it is what it is, we have more matrix users than others, fwiw | 09:34 |
mefistofeles | though I think they are less active | 09:34 |
Urchin | they got rid of everyone with [m] in the name? | 09:34 |
mefistofeles | Urchin: it's probably matrix dowing some maintenance, or just crashing | 09:35 |
mefistofeles | here they come | 09:35 |
irony[m] | No I just wanted to see what the heck this was | 09:35 |
irony[m] | lol guys | 09:35 |
mefistofeles | oh, but, actually... the quit msg said "killed" | 09:35 |
irony[m] | Why are you using it! | 09:35 |
mefistofeles | maybe just killed idlers? | 09:35 |
IronY | possible | 09:35 |
IronY | irc in discord feels dirty | 09:35 |
mefistofeles | hmm but it cant be all of them :/ no idea | 09:36 |
irony[m] | I was able to join | 09:36 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:28 UTC: Eurozone: Markets brace for surge in US jobless claims as Covid-19 hits economy - business live — from r/WorldNews at 07:28: EU, US thank Taiwan for donations of surgical masks: Taiwan pledged to provide 10 million masks to countries heavily impacted by coronavirus → https://is.gd/NWALGu | 09:36 |
IronY | Yeah I do not like how killing the client does not kill the entity | 09:37 |
IronY | thats probably exactly what happened | 09:37 |
IronY | killed super long idle connections | 09:37 |
tinwhiskers | Oh. this channel is nowhere near as popular as I thought! | 09:39 |
IronY | My Mr robot inspired channel had > 100 active participants a day for the entire first two seasons | 09:39 |
IronY | but to be fair, Mr Robot dropped a bunch of IRC screen shots flooding people with nostalgia | 09:40 |
tinwhiskers | heh | 09:40 |
IronY | I even got a shout on on that vox aftershow | 09:40 |
IronY | "Shouts out to IronY" | 09:40 |
IronY | lol | 09:40 |
IronY | Just waiting to read some news article that reads | 09:41 |
IronY | "According to the scholars of a long forgotten medium called IRC, a epic mile stone has been reached on our fight against Covid19 | 09:41 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +811 cases (now 938543), +6 deaths (now 47286), +45 recoveries (now 195188) — Russia: +771 cases (now 3548), +6 deaths (now 30), +45 recoveries (now 235) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239) | 09:51 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:44 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Asian countries face possible second wave of coronavirus infections — from r/WorldNews at 07:44: While India is on quarantine, thousands of undisturbed sea turtles estimate 60 million eggs. → https://is.gd/2xzOUN | 09:54 |
IronY | lol | 10:05 |
MillerBoss | https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ | 10:06 |
IronY | %data | 10:06 |
MillerBoss | Pretty neat site the way the data is laid out | 10:06 |
Brainstorm | IronY: In all areas, World, there are 938578 cases, 47292 deaths (5.0% of cases), 195359 recoveries as of April 02, 08:02Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.7% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 19.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 10:06 |
MillerBoss | Whats this bot now? | 10:06 |
IronY | Not my room, there is a few | 10:07 |
IronY | %cases canada | 10:07 |
Brainstorm | IronY: In all areas, Canada, there are 9731 cases, 129 deaths (1.3% of cases), 1736 recoveries as of April 02, 08:02Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.4% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 6.9% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 10:07 |
MillerBoss | Ahh gotchya eh | 10:07 |
IronY | he is just collecting links | 10:07 |
X-Scale | https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/01/europe/iceland-testing-coronavirus-intl/index.html | 10:10 |
X-Scale | *** Iceland lab testing suggests 50% of coronavirus cases are asymptomatic - CNN | 10:10 |
PlanckWalk | *were asymptomatic at the time of testing | 10:11 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:57 UTC: Eurozone: Markets brace for surge in US jobless claims as Covid-19 hits economy - business live — from r/WorldNews at 07:57: Daily increase in France from Covid 19 deaths slows from 17% to 9% → https://is.gd/NWALGu | 10:12 |
IronY | ^ yeay | 10:13 |
PlanckWalk | That's consistent with Diamond Princess results, where about that were asymptomatic on first testing. ~20% remained asymptomatic. | 10:13 |
PlanckWalk | ~20% of all positives, not 20% of initially asymptomatic | 10:13 |
IronY | happen to know how many of those 20% had a O blood type | 10:13 |
PlanckWalk | I'm pretty sure they weren't tested for that | 10:15 |
IronY | oh I am sure they were tested for everything | 10:15 |
IronY | they are literally the control set | 10:15 |
mefistofeles | heh | 10:25 |
MrtnDk[m] | <IronY "happen to know how many of those"> 0+ or 0-? Big difference ... | 10:29 |
MrtnDk[m] | %cases Vatican | 10:30 |
Brainstorm | MrtnDk[m]: In all areas, Vatican City, there are 6 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of April 02, 08:15Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Vatican%20City for time series data. | 10:30 |
CoronaBot | /r/worldnews: Taiwan premier says COVID-19 should be called 'Wuhan pneumonia' (10003 votes) | https://redd.it/ft4pqj | 10:45 |
SycophantFetish[ | Oof | 10:47 |
SycophantFetish[ | https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/us/coronavirus-texas-austin-spring-break-cabo.html | 10:47 |
mefistofeles | %title | 10:47 |
SycophantFetish[ | What did they expect would happen? | 10:47 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:23 UTC: /u/The_Fadge: Filippine — from r/WorldNews at 08:23: Cuba outraged as delivery of Covid-19 aid from Alibaba chief aborted ‘at the last minute’ due to US sanctions → https://is.gd/gHLr5Y | 10:49 |
Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From www.nytimes.com: 44 Texas Students Have Coronavirus After Spring Break Trip - The New York Times | 10:49 |
mefistofeles | heh, indeed | 10:50 |
SycophantFetish[ | Perhaps, they considered they'd need to start paying up in 9 months but instead...payment is due sooner. | 10:50 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +624 cases (now 939167), +30 deaths (now 47316), +209 recoveries (now 195397) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239) — Armenia: +92 cases (now 663), +2 recoveries (now 33) | 10:51 |
blackntan | what params do you pass offloop.net/covid19 in order to not include live data and turn on log scale? | 11:02 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:40 UTC: Eurozone: Markets brace for surge in US jobless claims as Covid-19 hits economy - business live — from r/WorldNews at 08:40: Cuba outraged as delivery of Covid-19 aid from Alibaba chief aborted ‘at the last minute’ due to US sanctions → https://is.gd/NWALGu | 11:04 |
Albright | %title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-2XxgHIXk | 11:19 |
Brainstorm | Albright: From www.youtube.com: A COVID-19 Admonition ***EXPLICIT - YouTube | 11:19 |
Albright | Some lovely background music | 11:19 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +2057 cases (now 941224), +213 deaths (now 47529), +817 recoveries (now 196214) — Belgium: +1384 cases (now 15348), +183 deaths (now 1011), +363 recoveries (now 2495) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239) | 11:21 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 09:06 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Corea del Nord — from r/WorldNews at 09:06: Cuba outraged as delivery of Covid-19 aid from Alibaba chief aborted ‘at the last minute’ due to US sanctions → https://is.gd/4ZcSR3 | 11:22 |
Biep[m] | <ThomCat[m] "Motherf- are we **really** going"> I don't want to dwell on the image of a *fucking pandemic* (having a coughing one is bad enough), but in that context mere *dick measuring* would be a step back to normal.. | 11:26 |
joerogan_ | %data united states | 11:31 |
Brainstorm | joerogan_: In all areas, US, there are 215344 cases, 5112 deaths (2.4% of cases), 8878 recoveries as of April 02, 09:16Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 11:32 |
joerogan_ | seems like everyone is getting this | 11:32 |
adventurer | https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australia-needs-2000-extra-ventilators-to-cope-with-catastrophic-outbreak-20200313-p549u7.html | 11:34 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:18 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Hancock to unveil five-point plan to ramp up testing — from r/WorldNews at 09:18: Cuba outraged as delivery of Covid-19 aid from Alibaba chief aborted ‘at the last minute’ due to US sanctions → https://is.gd/iSDEQ5 | 11:39 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +6251 cases (now 947475), +619 deaths (now 48148), +4103 recoveries (now 200317) — Spain: +6120 cases (now 110238), +616 deaths (now 10003), +4096 recoveries (now 26743) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239) | 11:51 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +2877 cases (now 950352), +124 deaths (now 48272) — Iran: +2875 cases (now 50468), +124 deaths (now 3160) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239) | 12:06 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:04 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Spain death toll passes 10,000 with record single-day rise of 950 — from r/WorldNews at 10:04: While India is on quarantine, thousands of undisturbed sea turtles estimate 60 million eggs → https://is.gd/P1HXKA | 12:13 |
kreyren | Anyone familiar with poland law here? My friend has mild symptoms simmilar to covid-19 (but not necessary covid-19 assuming that it can also be a common flu) where she does not have a health insurance nor a doctor and based on available info poland has "Narodowy Fundasz Zdrawia" which based on wiki is `Health care in Poland is free and is delivered through a publicly funded health care system called the Narodowy Fundusz Zdrowia, which is free for | 12:13 |
kreyren | all the citizens of Poland provided they fall into the "insured" category` where unemployed citizens does not fall in insured category ? | 12:13 |
mefistofeles | kreyren: hmm no idea, cant you just call some number and ask? | 12:15 |
mefistofeles | most countries have numbers special for covid related cases, so that may be an option | 12:16 |
kreyren | mefistofeles, none that i can find for poland | 12:16 |
kreyren | found https://www.gov.pl/web/koronawirus | 12:16 |
kreyren | mefistofeles, told her to call it, thanks | 12:18 |
mefistofeles | kreyren: no problem, I didn't do anything tbh xD haha | 12:20 |
kreyren | mefistofeles, she is concerned about the environment that they conduct the covid-19 tests if she reported it assuming that other friend who is a nurse advised agains it due to the method that poland is using to conduct these tests | 12:21 |
kreyren | any way for us to verify this? | 12:21 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +680 cases (now 951032), +17 deaths (now 48289), +2310 recoveries (now 202627) — Switzerland: +336 cases (now 18117), +17 deaths (now 505), +1046 recoveries (now 4013) — Iran: +1238 recoveries (now 16711) | 12:21 |
mefistofeles | kreyren: they should be testing the same way other countries are, which is a qRT-PCR, not sure what concerns does she have about that exactly | 12:22 |
mefistofeles | anyways, if she has mild symptoms she would probably not be tested and told to stay at home | 12:22 |
kreyren | mefistofeles, meaning that they are apparently conducting these tests in-doors in crounded-ish area | 12:22 |
mefistofeles | kreyren: yes, probably, that's why she won'tprobably be tested | 12:23 |
kreyren | so she is concerned that if this is a common flu that she could get the covid-19 from going through this procedure | 12:23 |
mefistofeles | s/won'tprobably/probably won't | 12:23 |
kreyren | so instruct her to stay at home and call the government if she gets worse assuming that she is 22 ? | 12:23 |
mefistofeles | lreyes, that should work, I mean, she doesn't need medical assistance, does she? | 12:26 |
mefistofeles | kreyren: ↑ | 12:26 |
kreyren | mefistofeles, She does not based on informations provided | 12:27 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:21 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Hancock to unveil five-point plan to ramp up testing — from r/WorldNews at 10:21: While India is on quarantine, thousands of undisturbed sea turtles estimate 60 million eggs → https://is.gd/iSDEQ5 | 12:30 |
mefistofeles | kreyren: ok, she should stay at home and assume she has the virus, so strict quarantine | 12:31 |
mefistofeles | but she can still call, they should give here better advice there | 12:32 |
kreyren | mefistofeles, i've instructed her based on the instructions from czech government i.e strict quarantine in separate room, desinfect metal and plastic surfices and wear protection gear | 12:33 |
mefistofeles | kreyren: sounds good | 12:37 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:40 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Spain death toll passes 10,000 with record single-day rise of 950: Iran passes 50,000 cases and 3,136 deaths; Russia and Afghanistan record single-day records; Cambodian government accused of using pandemic to assert absolute power [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/P1HXKA | 12:48 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:54 UTC: Eurozone: UK firms cut staff levels amid covid-19 crisis as cough medicine prices spike - business live [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/NWALGu | 13:06 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 11:26 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Foto — from r/WorldNews at 11:26: WHO ‘parroted Chinese propaganda’ about coronavirus → https://is.gd/fKL34Z | 13:41 |
underscore | %data gr | 13:49 |
Brainstorm | underscore: In all areas, Greece, there are 1415 cases, 51 deaths (3.6% of cases), 52 recoveries as of April 02, 11:34Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Greece for time series data. | 13:49 |
underscore | %data us | 13:50 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +1476 cases (now 952508), +44 deaths (now 48333), +259 recoveries (now 202886) — Germany: +1002 cases (now 78983), +17 deaths (now 948) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239) | 13:50 |
Brainstorm | underscore: In all areas, US, there are 215357 cases, 5113 deaths (2.4% of cases), 8878 recoveries as of April 02, 11:47Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 13:50 |
jacklsw | %data malaysia | 13:51 |
Brainstorm | jacklsw: In all areas, Malaysia, there are 3116 cases, 50 deaths (1.6% of cases), 767 recoveries as of April 02, 11:47Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Malaysia for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.5% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 6.1% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 13:51 |
underscore | The graphs on offloop.net are nice. Well done! | 13:52 |
Strantrickt[m] | %data Turkey | 13:58 |
Brainstorm | Strantrickt[m]: In all areas, Turkey, there are 15679 cases, 277 deaths (1.8% of cases), 333 recoveries as of April 02, 11:47Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data. | 13:58 |
underscore | Hmm, I just noticed that it's stated to try using the bot(s) in private messages on the channel topic. Apologies. | 13:59 |
Brainstorm | New from WHO at 11:43 UTC: WHO/Europe works with European Commission to fight COVID-19 in countries across eastern Europe and the Caucasus: WHO/Europe is working with countries in the European Region, to ensure they have the necessary medical supplies and that the health workforce is trained to respond to COVID-19. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/GGiAyt | 13:59 |
Strantrickt[m] | Use Signal | 14:00 |
mefistofeles | underscore: I mean, it's just so that we don't get flooded by bot messages here | 14:01 |
underscore | Yes, mefistofeles. | 14:01 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +2412 cases (now 954920), +233 deaths (now 48566), +27 recoveries (now 202913) — Sweden: +519 cases (now 5466), +43 deaths (now 282) — Portugal: +783 cases (now 9034), +22 deaths (now 209), +25 recoveries (now 68) | 14:07 |
underscore | mefistofeles: the channel grew a lot since the last time I was here. The op(s) and contributors did a great job | 14:07 |
Scarecr0w | Now that you mentioned it, just realized we have 100-200+ users than couple days ago. That's awesome. | 14:09 |
Brainstorm | New from Scientific American at 12:00 UTC: Map Reveals Hidden U.S. Hotspots of Coronavirus Infection: By adjusting for population, researchers have identified rural areas in several states that could be disproportionally affected by COVID-19 -- Read more on ScientificAmerican.com — from r/WorldNews at 12:00: WHO ‘parroted Chinese propaganda’ about coronavirus → https://is.gd/Z0j6FP | 14:16 |
rajrajraj | What could be the source of patients'location on Activate location and check how far you are from a confirmed Covid19 case | 14:20 |
rajrajraj | coronatracker.in | 14:20 |
rajrajraj | What could be the source of patients'location on coronatracker.in | 14:21 |
hirogen | hi | 14:22 |
hirogen | my gf just got fired form her job worked for a fashion company | 14:22 |
hirogen | online website | 14:22 |
Albright | Re rural hot spots, here in Idaho, the worst-hit county is in the middle of the state with a whopping 22,000 or so people. The more urban (by Idaho standards) areas of Boise, Twin Falls, etc. haven't been hit nearly as hard even in terms of raw numbers. | 14:22 |
hirogen | and they're quite a big chain here in uk | 14:22 |
hirogen | is there any name and shame sites to ruin their rep | 14:22 |
hirogen | the govt here is offering to pay fultime employees 80% of a persons salary | 14:23 |
hirogen | so they could have kept her on for that ffs | 14:23 |
Albright | hirogen: What relation does that have with the disease? | 14:23 |
hirogen | oh ok | 14:23 |
hirogen | fair enough | 14:23 |
Albright | Did they have to cut back workers because of economic troubles? | 14:23 |
pwr22 | I think the government has passed laws that should protect your gf from that technically? | 14:24 |
hirogen | anyone think this guys a twat ? https://www.facebook.com/Godfathercreed/videos/10221775969896843/ | 14:24 |
Albright | I personally haven't had client work for three weeks and even got laid off from my side gig at a restaurant. I'm pretty effed in the ey financially. | 14:24 |
Albright | But I can't blame my clients or the restaurant. | 14:24 |
Albright | (btw, if anyone needs some web dev work done, hmu. I'll cut you a huge deal if you can pay at least partially in advance.) | 14:25 |
pwr22 | hirogen: I would think the route forward is to call an employment tribunal? | 14:25 |
pwr22 | Though worth contacting her work and trying to negotiate getting furloughed by them first | 14:25 |
joe[m]6 | A friend had the same issue Hirogen, she got in touch with local MP who got in touch with the company. Eventually they redacted the redundancy & furloughed her. Might be worth trying contacting local MPs & ACAS | 14:25 |
rajrajraj | Did anyone see it | 14:26 |
rajrajraj | Is it possible to find out the source of patien's location on this site coronatracker.in | 14:26 |
Albright | rajrajraj: You want to find the location of an individual patient? I would hope that wouldn't be possible. | 14:26 |
pwr22 | <Albright "(btw, if anyone needs some web d"> If you're truly bored and want to do some open source stuff I'd welcome a basic webpage for Cov Bot 😛 | 14:27 |
pwr22 | IIRC I registered a domain for it some time ago | 14:27 |
mefistofeles | underscore: yes, I think most users come from matrix, but even so | 14:28 |
pwr22 | I don't have much experience with web stuff or free time atm | 14:28 |
rajrajraj | Albright: the site found out | 14:29 |
mefistofeles | some countries could really benefit from a web app/site that helps triage phase in hospitals, fwiw | 14:29 |
Albright | pwr22: Well, if I can't get paid, I'll have to stick to doing my schoolwork, I'm afraid. | 14:29 |
Albright | No idea how I'll be able to pay for the next semester at this rate… | 14:30 |
underscore | rajrajraj: look at the bottom of the website | 14:30 |
underscore | rajrajraj: there's a spreadsheet and it mentions the source for cases | 14:30 |
kreyren | apparently new symptoms of covid-19 are halucinations and abnormal hearth rate? | 14:31 |
kreyren | aldo the halucination is probably caused by fever | 14:31 |
kreyren | so is the abnormal hearh rate? | 14:31 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:24 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Spain death toll passes 10,000 with record single-day rise of 950: Iran passes 50,000 cases and 3,136 deaths; Russia and Afghanistan record single-day records; Cambodian government accused of using pandemic to assert absolute power [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/P1HXKA | 14:32 |
pwr22 | <kreyren "apparently new symptoms of covid"> Statistically speaking pretty much every disease causes pretty much every symptom in a minority of cases. I wonder how prevalent that is | 14:34 |
kreyren | pwr22, may not be a minority assuming it being a virus which family is known to mutate | 14:35 |
pwr22 | Do we have any reliable data on it to look at? | 14:35 |
dTal | I know someone who's tested positive whose only symptoms are mild fever and roaring headache | 14:36 |
dTal | (and loss of taste/smell) | 14:36 |
kreyren | pwr22, none that i can find.. most of those are from new york times where someone in US government shared seemingly crafted story which seems to base the report on | 14:36 |
kreyren | dTal, roaring headage ? that's new to me | 14:37 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +810 cases (now 955730), +16 deaths (now 48582), +29 recoveries (now 202942) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239) — Albania: +18 cases (now 277), +1 deaths (now 16) | 14:37 |
pwr22 | Hmm, imo let's wait for more data before taking it too seriously | 14:37 |
pwr22 | <dTal "I know someone who's tested posi"> One of my friends also had a terrible headache | 14:37 |
pwr22 | I pretty much always have a headache going on so not sure if I'd notice a difference | 14:37 |
ubLIX | kreyren: is this so shocking? fever can cause delirium (hence hallucinations); heart rate increases to generate fever; hypoxia (low oxygen) can also cause delirium | 14:38 |
kreyren | generally i like to make theories that assuming being backed up by science provides the answer generally sooner with high accuracy, but for this case assuming that this seems to be common symptoms for ill humanoids it's better to pass and wait | 14:39 |
kreyren | ubLIX, it's shocking to me since none from the circles that i know reported these symptoms in czech republic | 14:39 |
kreyren | ubLIX, the provided informations are inconclusive on hypoxia being the cause but i would also assume it being the cause of these symptoms | 14:40 |
mefistofeles | oh ffs, swapping like hell, almost lose my whole work xD | 14:40 |
pwr22 | Oh no | 14:40 |
ubLIX | delirium and hallucinations are not likely to be prodromal symptoms. probably why you don't hear them circulated | 14:41 |
darsie | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgical_mask | 14:41 |
pwr22 | mefistofeles: if an upgrade isn't possible: https://shortestpath.dev/need-more-ram-try-compressing-what-youve-already-got.html | 14:41 |
pwr22 | And if you run Linux 😁 | 14:41 |
pwr22 | <ubLIX "delirium and hallucinations are "> What's prodromal? | 14:41 |
ubLIX | an early sign | 14:41 |
rajrajraj | underscore: i was looking at it. I cant see the source | 14:42 |
underscore | pwr22: nice article | 14:42 |
underscore | rajrajraj: I'll message you the link | 14:42 |
pwr22 | Thanks | 14:42 |
mefistofeles | pwr22: ok, I may try that, but tbh, I'm just abusing this poor laptop | 14:42 |
kreyren | Do we have any relevant info to the number of cases who lost sense of smell and taste with covid-19 ? my friend is suspected to have covid-19 but loss of smell and taste does not fit the profile | 14:43 |
pwr22 | What model / spec is it? | 14:43 |
pwr22 | I find sadly 8GB isn't enough RAM for what I need to do these days now | 14:43 |
dTal | kreyren: 30% iirc? | 14:43 |
pwr22 | I'm thinking of buying a new one with 32GB | 14:44 |
underscore | rajrajraj: sorry I can't find anything about GPS | 14:45 |
kreyren | dTal, heard so too, but some research would be helpful assuming that there doesn't seem to be any paper for it | 14:45 |
rajrajraj | underscore: exactly so how is he calculating the distance | 14:45 |
underscore | rajrajraj: maybe it's some speculative math model? | 14:47 |
joexotic[m] | <kreyren "Do we have any relevant info to "> I had something lke this for a few days and nautious with cold sweats after eating fast food a few weeks back and some others i know have lost sense of taste/appetite for a few days but didnt know why | 14:47 |
underscore | rajrajraj: email them to ask them about it | 14:48 |
rajrajraj | underscore: it has to be somewhere in spreadsheet | 14:49 |
kreyren | joexotic[m], did you have any other symptoms or was this relevant to covid-19 in any way? | 14:51 |
rajrajraj | underscore: i think i got it. They have published travel history of some patients | 14:52 |
joexotic[m] | Nothing respiratory and didn't last very long. | 14:52 |
underscore | Ok, rajrajraj | 14:52 |
kreyren | joexotic[m], thanks for sharing | 14:54 |
ubLIX | kreyren: i would guess that unaccountable delirium absent fever (in an otherwise healthy patient) would be very concerning, but am having a hard time believing that covid-19 could progress to hypoxia induced delirium without first presenting other more obvious signs | 14:55 |
amxc | %data oregon | 14:55 |
Brainstorm | amxc: In Oregon, US, there are 736 cases, 19 deaths (2.6% of cases), 0 recoveries as of April 02, 02:20Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 14:55 |
kreyren | ubLIX, agree | 14:55 |
python476 | o/ | 14:56 |
kreyren | ubLIX, i assume that when the fever gets so high that the patient has hypoxia induced delirum it would be a good idea to cool them down? | 14:57 |
ubLIX | kreyren: i suspect you would have called an ambulance before then | 14:58 |
pwr22 | I think cooling someone down who has a very high fever is always a good idea | 14:58 |
pwr22 | Not sure what "too high" is though | 14:58 |
kreyren | but at that point i assume that immune system is on full panic and does not know what to do to cause this state assuming that human body naturally raises a temperature to process more energy and to provide worse environment for the bacteria and the infection? | 14:59 |
kreyren | ubLIX, i meant how would that be solve in the ambulance itself | 14:59 |
rajrajraj | underscore: also found out its very inaccurate | 15:03 |
ubLIX | kreyren: telephone a doctor/health service if in doubt | 15:03 |
synaps3 | ^ | 15:04 |
kreyren | ubLIX, true or ##medicine | 15:04 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:59 UTC: UK coronavirus live: Hancock to unveil five-point plan to ramp up testing: All the latest news on the UK’s Covid-19 crisis, as Eddie Large’s son says comedian has died after contracting coronavirus and British Airways expected to suspend 36,000 staff [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/iSDEQ5 | 15:06 |
rajrajraj | However every confirmed case should share their live location mandatory | 15:06 |
ubLIX | wouldn't waste time with irc if you found yourself worrying that time was a factor | 15:07 |
underscore | rajrajraj: there's a science field about it, it's network science and a lot of countries try to do contact tracing. With limited surveillance, it has limited success | 15:11 |
underscore | AFAIK here the contact tracing is being done by the police | 15:12 |
ubLIX | kreyren: "when the fever gets so high that the patient has hypoxia induced" <-- note that in these two things are not related in the way you imply here | 15:13 |
ubLIX | s/that in these/that these/ | 15:14 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +4562 cases (now 960292), +584 deaths (now 49166), +71 recoveries (now 203013) — United Kingdom: +4244 cases (now 33718), +569 deaths (now 2921) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239) | 15:22 |
kreyren | ubLIX, Time is not a factor and i find irc being a better source to provide more points of view on the question | 15:23 |
kreyren | ubLIX, true sorry typo | 15:23 |
kreyren | meant "patient has fever induced delirium" | 15:24 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 13:14 UTC: UK coronavirus live: death toll rises by 569 to 2,921: Boris Johnson still symptomatic; Matt Hancock to address testing; Eddie Large’s son says comedian has died after contracting coronavirus — from r/WorldNews at 13:14: Nepal, Czech Republic and Philippines also find Covid-19 test kits from China faulty → https://is.gd/iSDEQ5 | 15:24 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 13:26 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Where America Didn’t Stay Home Even as the Virus Spread - The New York Times — from r/WorldNews at 13:26: Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu shared a fake video from the Hallmark series 'Pandemic' and claimed it as evidence that Iran was covering up its coronavirus deaths → https://is.gd/LYrDBt | 15:42 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +1758 cases (now 962050), +10 deaths (now 49176), +163 recoveries (now 203176) — Germany: +1658 cases (now 80641), +14 deaths (now 962) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239), +5 recoveries (now 10) | 15:52 |
CoronaBot | /r/worldnews: Pastor sorry after service caused wave of coronavirus infections in France: Thiebault Geyer wanted to say “sorry to God for my selfishness” after officials confirmed that around 2,500 of his parishioners have contracted coronavirus. At least 17 of those have died. (10710 votes) | https://redd.it/ftkaah | 15:52 |
sYN4P515 | "sorry" | 15:57 |
mefistofeles | lol | 15:57 |
bin_bash | honestly i just think those people should be refused medical treatment | 15:58 |
voltage555 | t | 16:00 |
mefistofeles | bin_bash: hmm, that would be really troublesome :P to say the least | 16:00 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:45 UTC: Ex-FDA chief warns 'parts of our lives' will stay shut down without a coronavirus drug by fall: Scott Gottlieb said Thursday the sense of "urgency" being applied to the development of a COVID-19 vaccine needs to be applied to developing a therapeutic. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/1GyGOR | 16:00 |
mefistofeles | I mean, if for some reason hospitals or governments refused to treat patients based on ideologies | 16:00 |
mefistofeles | or even, ignorance | 16:01 |
bin_bash | it would be appropriate to refuse treatment to those who refused to social distance | 16:01 |
bin_bash | they made their choice, and they should die with it | 16:01 |
mefistofeles | not really, no | 16:02 |
mefistofeles | but I guess this is a long discussion that's not worth having here | 16:02 |
mefistofeles | I mean, I do get the sentiment, don't get me wrong | 16:02 |
LjL | i get the sentiment of feeling like i want to shoot some people when they do certain things, but then i'm still for due process when i'm not being actively but temporarily mad at something | 16:10 |
gildarts | If we don't have due process for everyone, we will eventually have due process for no one. | 16:15 |
LjL | the analogy i had in mind was originally with something slightly different but i thought i'd drop that one | 16:16 |
ubLIX | with apologies to Orwell, "All due processes are equal, but some due processes are more equal than others." | 16:17 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:00 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Amazon to give workers face masks, US jobless claims skyrocket — from r/WorldNews at 14:00: UK Government Is Using Coronavirus As Excuse To Ramp Up Surveillance → https://is.gd/QugdiB | 16:18 |
IronY | maybe not death | 16:20 |
IronY | but when this is all over, these people should at least be at the minimum subject to a court of their peers | 16:20 |
ubLIX | assistance for framing the post-covidocalypse narrative: https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/04/01/book-review-the-precipice/ | 16:28 |
ubLIX | ^ this reviewer goes long on existential risk context: "We cannot take infinite time for this; the universe is expanding, and for each year we spend not doing interstellar colonization, three galaxies cross the cosmological event horizon and become forever unreachable" | 16:30 |
LjL | ubLIX, some people's idea of due process is "i will load before shooting" | 16:30 |
ubLIX | LjL: heh | 16:32 |
ubLIX | forgetting that quote for a moment, the book review is quite a good read, and does dwell on pandemics for a moment | 16:32 |
LjL | ubLIX, it looks longer than the book! | 16:34 |
penny_ | why are people so obsessed with humanity lasting roever. just live your life who cares about what's happening in thousands or millions of years. Why is colonizing the universe even desireable? | 16:34 |
penny_ | forever* | 16:34 |
ubLIX | penny_: the linked book review addresses that question | 16:35 |
LjL | "humanity lasting forever" is kind of our driving principle as a species (and the driving principle of all the species, really) | 16:35 |
ubLIX | (on behalf of the book, which does also) | 16:35 |
LjL | that doesn't mean we have a duty to strive towards that goal as individual, in my opinion... but it's just kind of a scientific fact | 16:35 |
ubLIX | it is a kind of tautological necessity of any organism borne of natural selection | 16:36 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 14:30 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Spain death toll passes 10,000 with record single-day rise of 950: Iran passes 50,000 cases and 3,136 deaths; Russia and Afghanistan record single-day records; Catalonia asks Spanish army for help; Thailand imposes national curfew [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/P1HXKA | 16:36 |
penny_ | >A fatal injury to either of you would snuff out the entire future of humanity. Every song ever composed, every picture ever painted, every book ever written by all the greatest authors of the millennia would die stillborn. Millions of people would never meet their true loves, or get to raise their children. All of the triumphs and tragedies of | 16:36 |
penny_ | humanity, from the conquests of Alexander to the moon landings, would come to nothing if you hit a rock and cracked your skull. | 16:36 |
penny_ | yeah but no one would be around to care so what's the problem? | 16:36 |
dTal | penny_: I mean if you're gonna go nihilistic go all the way, why not just stop eating | 16:36 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +1384 cases (now 963434), +26 deaths (now 49202), +78 recoveries (now 203254) — US: +903 cases (now 216265), +19 deaths (now 5132), +26 recoveries (now 8904) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239), +5 recoveries (now 10) | 16:37 |
penny_ | no i want to enjoy my life but i dont really care if humanity ends one day | 16:37 |
dTal | what do you value? your own personal pleasure alone? | 16:37 |
penny_ | no i also highly value limiting suffering among sentient beings | 16:37 |
LjL | dTal, i took a jab at some twitterer yesterday who encouraged our PM (as if he cares!) to specifically say in his announcement that quick walks were forbidden... told them why not forbid breathing, i suspect that would get rid of the virus | 16:37 |
ubLIX | well eliminating sentient beings is one absolute path to eliminating the suffering, but i don't suppose you're proposing that | 16:38 |
penny_ | im just proposing that we focus on making life better for people in the near future | 16:38 |
dTal | penny_: I can naively fulfil your utility function by immediately euthenizing everyone except you, who I give a very nice VR headet | 16:39 |
BradInVancouver | There are more sentient beings than just people, right? | 16:39 |
penny_ | oh id be happier without the vr headset | 16:39 |
LjL | i am not a huge fan of perpetuating myself. but trying to push that view on others would be futile, and likely just annoying to them. it's my view, and it doesn't really match the tautological necessity of any organism borne of natural selection, to use a phrasing i just came up with | 16:39 |
penny_ | probably BradInVancouver | 16:39 |
dTal | in that case penny_ all i can say is that your personal utility function is atypical | 16:39 |
dTal | most people would not be happy euthanizing the species | 16:40 |
LjL | dTal, okay, now we're talking... which kind of VR headset? i have a Daydream, it's been nice but ultimately underwhelming | 16:40 |
penny_ | exploring the planet without anyone in it seems more fun than a vr headset is what im saying | 16:40 |
LjL | BradInVancouver, i would say yes, but that's also a can of worms that i'd rather keep for later in case we run out of food | 16:40 |
BradInVancouver | Probably? Are chimps not sentient? Dogs? | 16:41 |
penny_ | ive actually had this fantasy often | 16:41 |
LjL | BradInVancouver, i would likely benefit from a definition of sentient | 16:41 |
LjL | %w sentient | 16:41 |
dTal | that argument all boils down to some terribly boring debate about the true meaning of the word "sentient" | 16:41 |
Brainstorm | LjL, sentient — adjective: 1. Experiencing sensation, thought, or feeling, 2. Able to consciously perceive through the use of sense faculties, 3. (chiefly science fiction) Possessing human-like awareness and intelligence [... want %more?] → https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sentient | 16:41 |
LjL | %wik sentiency | 16:41 |
penny_ | BradInVancouver unclear | 16:41 |
Brainstorm | LjL, no such article found on the English Wikipedia | 16:41 |
gildarts | Personally have limited interest in VR until they develop some kind of full-immersion tech. | 16:41 |
LjL | Brainstorm should be more sentient | 16:41 |
LjL | that definition #2 brings up "consciousness", which is another can of worms | 16:42 |
LjL | (good thing we have all these cans of worms in case we run out of food) | 16:42 |
penny_ | vr still makes a ton of people dizzy and nautious and even people who tolerate it well cant last more than a couple hours | 16:43 |
penny_ | just a thought, the end of humanity probably would be a good thing for the other life forms on the planet | 16:44 |
gildarts | LjL: This makes you look at transporters rather differently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQHBAdShgYI | 16:44 |
penny_ | if we are to be effectively altrusitic towards them, perhaps euthanizing humanity would indeed be best | 16:44 |
penny_ | ;) | 16:44 |
penny_ | we love you coronachan! | 16:45 |
penny_ | if u think that's a nihilistic statement you dont know what nihilism is. i have alternative values, not no values. | 16:46 |
gildarts | penny_: For me, if I had to personally kill every whale/dolphin/monkey/ant/etc on the planet to keep my children alive, I would do it, no question. I, nor anyone, needs to do that, but it isn't a hard decision. | 16:46 |
penny_ | i think i would do the opposite | 16:47 |
penny_ | not that i have children | 16:47 |
penny_ | i think id kill all the humans before all the other animals | 16:47 |
ubLIX | if your objective is to reduce suffering, perhaps you could agree that suffering scales with degree of sentience, and that humans therefore suffer more than other animals, and that it would take a very long time for the enjoyment of caterpillars and such to offset the mass human anticipation of imminent euthanasia | 16:47 |
penny_ | hmm wouldnt more people spread around the universe just mean more people suffering? | 16:48 |
penny_ | most people on earth seem to have pretty shitty lives really | 16:48 |
penny_ | id say humanity is net suffering right now | 16:48 |
penny_ | why would it be any different on other planets? | 16:48 |
ubLIX | we'd have to solve an awful lot of problems before other planets becomes a concern. improving our navigation suffering is likely to be one of them | 16:49 |
gildarts | Honestly, probably a better question for ##philosophy. | 16:49 |
ubLIX | or ##effectivealtruism | 16:50 |
penny_ | well this article is highly philosphical so thats why im responding philosophicaly | 16:50 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +1771 cases (now 965205), +51 deaths (now 49253), +20 recoveries (now 203274) — Germany: +1087 cases (now 81728), +35 deaths (now 997) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239), +5 recoveries (now 10) | 16:52 |
LjL | well we can talk about altruism in philosophy, or we can talk about | 16:52 |
LjL | 18<25Brainstorm18> New from r/WorldNews at 14:20 UTC: worldnews: Masks destined for Canada re-routed to US by DHL → https://is.gd/yCKFc6 | 16:52 |
mefistofeles | ubLIX> ^ this reviewer goes long on existential risk context: "We cannot take infinite time for this; the universe is expanding, and for each year we spend not doing interstellar | 16:53 |
mefistofeles | colonization, three galaxies cross the cosmological event horizon and become forever unreachable" | 16:53 |
mefistofeles | oops, crap paste | 16:53 |
mefistofeles | but btw, ubLIX , that's just not how universe expansion works, fwiw | 16:53 |
mefistofeles | so that's a really wrong statement, as is | 16:54 |
penny_ | even if it was true it's the most absurd thing to be concerned about it's just laughable | 16:54 |
ubLIX | well i gave that quote as a funny example of silliness | 16:54 |
mefistofeles | ubLIX: Ah, ok, thought so :) | 16:55 |
mefistofeles | just wanting to make it clear | 16:55 |
ubLIX | whilst suggesting that in spite of it, the review and the book seemed interesting | 16:55 |
ubLIX | although my sense of its silliness was more in penny_'s camp than the physical | 16:56 |
LjL | gildarts, "Truth be told, you can really only know that YOU are conscious, and it seems polite to give other people the benefit of the doubt" ← that is pretty much the tl;dr of my personal view of this whole thing | 16:58 |
gildarts | CGPGrey makes good videos in general, imo. | 16:59 |
penny_ | LjL what about other animals? | 16:59 |
LjL | penny_, well, the slightly less short version is, "other people do seem to act and process information in a very similar way as i do, *hence* it is reasonable to give them the benefit of the doubt". so when it comes to other lifeforms, it is only natural for me to treat them as more or less conscious/sentient/whatever depending on how close they seem to be to also feeling like they process information in a way that appears sentient to me. it's very | 17:01 |
LjL | me-centered, but i'm not sure how it could be otherwise. rocks could be sentient beings for all i know, and just express it differently... but... likely not? | 17:01 |
penny_ | I'm assuming consciousness is a function of the nervous system and some animals have it to varrious extents | 17:02 |
LjL | when we cannot really define it, i would be cautious to make any such assumption | 17:03 |
penny_ | well if you get hit hard on the head youll go unconcsious | 17:04 |
gildarts | Dolphins, whales, some or all apes, a few others animals, might be conscious. I would still pick any human over any of them, but I'm definitely not a fan of people who mistreat or kill them. | 17:04 |
penny_ | oh i bet reptiles and fish are too to some extent | 17:04 |
penny_ | ants maybe not, sea sponges no | 17:05 |
IronY | turns out my companys biggest revenue stream is the Bill and Malinda gates foundation | 17:05 |
IronY | TIL | 17:05 |
LjL | penny_, well is there any specific nervous sytem difference that you can point to that corroborates that distinction? | 17:06 |
gildarts | Depends on how tied into intelligence conscious is. Most if not all fish, are relatively dumb. | 17:06 |
LjL | gildarts, some or all apes have been inoculated with SARS-COV-2 to see if they could be re-infected (and probably for other reasons, but that's the one i know about) | 17:06 |
penny_ | this is just my sense LjL | 17:06 |
penny_ | based on observing behavior | 17:07 |
ubLIX | i think i few moments in a dictionary of neurology would allow me to point to a nervous system difference that would reject consciousness in reptiles and fish | 17:07 |
gildarts | One relatively simple test/low bar would be if they could pass the mirror test. | 17:07 |
penny_ | why should that be the bar? | 17:07 |
penny_ | lol no way ubLIX | 17:08 |
penny_ | there's no mechanistic theory of consciousness | 17:08 |
ubLIX | there is | 17:08 |
ubLIX | you just haven't read it | 17:08 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 14:57 UTC: New York vets confused by mayor's ask for ventilators: 'We've already responded': Bill de Blasio asks vets to help donate 15,000 ventilators before worst of peak Covid-19 cases, but doctors say the few they had have already been donated [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/2pH38W | 17:08 |
LjL | penny_, but you cannot rule out that behavior is intelligent in a way that is different enough from our way to go on about things, that you just completely "miss" it. and then what about beings like bees and ants? they may not seem very intelligent taken individually, but collectively they do impressive things. can we possibly consider them sentient organisms that are simply made up of less-impressive sub-organisms (just like we're made out of cells after | 17:09 |
LjL | all, and originally multicellular organisms probably came from colonies of single-celled ones)? | 17:09 |
penny_ | theory in what sense? | 17:09 |
gildarts | There is no objective way to set the criteria. So I would draw the line at or above the mirror test personally. | 17:09 |
penny_ | why? | 17:09 |
ubLIX | penny_: you might be convinced by Antonia Damasio's popular accounts | 17:09 |
gildarts | It demonstrates a base level of self awareness. | 17:09 |
penny_ | yeah bees and ants might be conscious | 17:10 |
penny_ | id set a much lower bar gildarts | 17:10 |
gildarts | penny_: I assumed that. | 17:10 |
ubLIX | penny_: *Antonio | 17:10 |
gildarts | But you already said that you would consider killing off the humans rather than other animals, so I don't really care where you put the bar. :) | 17:11 |
penny_ | for the sake of the reduction of suffering and a healthy sustainable ecosystem yeah | 17:12 |
penny_ | i would consider it | 17:12 |
ubLIX | note to self: don't put penny_ in charge of any large red buttons | 17:13 |
penny_ | well nuking the panet wouldnt help the enviornment much | 17:13 |
penny_ | planet | 17:13 |
eaxomar | a few cities though | 17:13 |
penny_ | i bioweapon would be better ;) | 17:14 |
penny_ | a | 17:14 |
penny_ | i guess the basic idea is to me suffering is worth than death | 17:15 |
penny_ | worse* | 17:15 |
gildarts | Okay, definitely don't let penny_ within a few hundred miles of where they store small pox, etc. | 17:15 |
penny_ | coronachan is doing the job for me | 17:16 |
ubLIX | with a great deal of suffering | 17:16 |
gildarts | I would say that if you aren't conscious/self aware, you can't really suffer. | 17:16 |
penny_ | in the near term | 17:16 |
penny_ | gotta look at dat long run suffering curve | 17:16 |
ubLIX | lets draw the curtain on this topic, shall we | 17:16 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +1162 cases (now 966367), +9 deaths (now 49262), +39 recoveries (now 203313) — US: +650 cases (now 217372), +5 deaths (now 5145), +38 recoveries (now 8942) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239), +5 recoveries (now 10) | 17:22 |
iz | penny_ is gonna try to derail a train to wake up the people :b | 17:24 |
penny_ | im just responding to this book review | 17:24 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:15 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus US live: Pelosi announces bipartisan House group to make sure $2tn is 'spent wisely' — from r/WorldNews at 15:15: Putin Extends Nationwide Paid Holiday as Coronavirus Numbers See Sharpest Rise Yet → https://is.gd/HG3MG8 | 17:25 |
ubLIX | LjL: been looking at offloop, Spain, Italy, France and UK, deaths in log plot; do you think they're all tending to ~20-25k? | 17:33 |
IronY | "20 people gathering for a backyard party last night in Brampton. Man in his 20's now facing a fine up to $100K after ignoring physical distancing requirements of public health. Mayor says this is "too serious for anyone to be reckless and foolish." | 17:34 |
mefistofeles | ubLIX: trajectories are not exactly the same, though, as far as I can see, but it depends on the testing as well | 17:36 |
mefistofeles | since testing is not the same | 17:36 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +1170 cases (now 967537), +46 deaths (now 49308), +222 recoveries (now 203535) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239), +5 recoveries (now 10) — Albania: +18 cases (now 277), +1 deaths (now 16) | 17:37 |
LjL | ubLIX, i can't tell really, the UK graph looks a bit erratic, and if you do the 100-case alignment thing, flawed as it might be due to the arbitrariness of 100, the curves don't really all match | 17:37 |
mefistofeles | Germany is following closely Italy's trajectory, fwiw | 17:37 |
suaefar[m] | <ubLIX "LjL: been looking at offloop, Sp"> Who knows... I follow the trends and try to predict the numbers the next day. And it was horribly wrong for Spain today | 17:37 |
mefistofeles | France also somewhat close, but Spain is different | 17:37 |
LjL | suaefar[m], has Spain released the numbers for today? | 17:37 |
LjL | mefistofeles, Germany is not following Italy in terms of deaths, though, that's what ubLIX was looking at | 17:38 |
suaefar[m] | Yes 950 death in 24h | 17:38 |
suaefar[m] | I saw 590 coming... https://github.com/suaefar/covid-19-deceased-prediction | 17:38 |
LjL | damn | 17:38 |
suaefar[m] | They were waiting for days to see lower numbers, but this is a new record | 17:39 |
aradesh | which country has had new record? | 17:39 |
LjL | Spain | 17:39 |
IronY | %cases us | 17:39 |
Brainstorm | IronY: In all areas, US, there are 217661 cases, 5153 deaths (2.4% of cases), 8973 recoveries as of April 02, 15:34Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 17:39 |
aradesh | offloop has it as 616. is it just out of date? | 17:39 |
aradesh | spains confirmed cases are reducing though | 17:40 |
aradesh | but deaths lag behind that a bit | 17:40 |
mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: how were/are you predicting? | 17:40 |
LjL | yeah, not sure if offloop is updated, it does say april 2 | 17:40 |
aradesh | UK had over 500 again today | 17:40 |
suaefar[m] | <mefistofeles "suaefar: how were/are you predic"> Just fitting polinomials to the JHU data | 17:40 |
penny_ | ok having just finished the book review, ill just say this. I think we should be prioritizing making life better for people in the near term, not limiting existential risk. that's my take. | 17:40 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:28 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: VW extends Chattanooga plant closure to April 12, Amazon gives workers face masks — from r/WorldNews at 15:28: Putin Extends Nationwide Paid Holiday as Coronavirus Numbers See Sharpest Rise Yet → https://is.gd/QugdiB | 17:41 |
rahiakherajot[m] | In India there have been a total of 2,341 cases as of 2020-04-02 15:34:00 UTC. Of these 2,096 (89.5%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 177 (7.6%) have definitely recovered and 68 (2.9%) have died. | 17:41 |
mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: I see, yes, that's likely to give errors specially now that there's some trending towards peaking/slowdown | 17:42 |
BobCat | Is there anyone in this channel NOT wearing a face mask? | 17:42 |
ubLIX | LjL: i was just thinking they all looked like 20-25 albeit via slightly different paths. In a way, UK looks worst to me | 17:42 |
penny_ | im not wearing a mask | 17:42 |
mefistofeles | BobCat: I'm not | 17:42 |
BobCat | WHO and CDC are still killing people... | 17:42 |
suaefar[m] | <mefistofeles "suaefar: I see, yes, that's like"> Yes, of course. I do it to have a reference what to expect and how to interpret new numbers in that context | 17:43 |
mefistofeles | I mean, we are confined | 17:43 |
penny_ | u wear a mask while at home BobCat ? | 17:43 |
LjL | ubLIX, the UK is definitely going to get worse before it gets any better... whether that will entail crossing paths with italy, i don't know | 17:43 |
BobCat | I mean when you go out | 17:43 |
penny_ | oh only if i go to the store not just for a walk | 17:43 |
mefistofeles | BobCat: also, it's not as if you can get those easily | 17:43 |
penny_ | yeah i have six n95s im saving for gorcery trips | 17:43 |
BobCat | For once, Trump is right, use a scarf if you have nothing else | 17:43 |
BobCat | penny you can reuse them, bake at 160F for 20 minutes | 17:44 |
ubLIX | LjL: looks like it'll cross paths if lock down doesn't show a dramatic effect very soon | 17:44 |
mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: I suggest you look at the log scale plot for new confirmed cases (in previous days/week or so) vs total confirmed cases, I guess it's easier to predict there | 17:44 |
penny_ | a lot of people in this channel think he's right about heteregenous lockdown | 17:44 |
LjL | ubLIX, honestly i don't see how it could do otherwise when most lines of work are still active :\ | 17:45 |
LjL | people need money etc, so i don't know, it may be good in the long term, but it certainly isn't bringing direct COVID deaths down | 17:45 |
mefistofeles | spain and Italy showing signs of slowdown even in the death curve, imho | 17:45 |
ubLIX | looks like, mefistofeles | 17:46 |
LjL | italy only like... yesterday. we'll see what we get today | 17:46 |
mefistofeles | still, bit to soon, 6 days of difference, so too soon | 17:46 |
ubLIX | Spain especially, i mean | 17:46 |
mefistofeles | I mean, compared to slowdown in Italy | 17:46 |
mefistofeles | ubLIX: yes | 17:46 |
penny_ | BobCat what do u think of method 1? https://www.sages.org/n-95-re-use-instructions/ | 17:46 |
mefistofeles | slowdown of cases in Italy, I meant | 17:47 |
suaefar[m] | <mefistofeles "suaefar: I suggest you look at t"> I use log deaths vs time, as I want an extrapolation in time | 17:47 |
LjL | spain has both Madrid and Catalonia which are large liabilities | 17:47 |
LjL | %wa life expectancy in italy, spain, united kingdom | 17:47 |
mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: you can get that form the one I suggest as well, fwiw | 17:47 |
mefistofeles | *from | 17:47 |
Brainstorm | LjL, Wolfram|Alpha (Italy Spain United Kingdom | life expectancy): Results: Italy | 82.4 years Spain | 81.8 years United Kingdom | 80.9 years → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=life+expectancy+in+italy%2C+spain%2C+united+kingdom | 17:47 |
LjL | %wa median age in italy, spain, united kingdom | 17:47 |
Brainstorm | LjL, Wolfram|Alpha (Italy Spain United Kingdom | median age): Results: Italy | 45.9 years Spain | 43.2 years United Kingdom | 40.2 years (2015 estimates) → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=median+age+in+italy%2C+spain%2C+united+kingdom | 17:47 |
LjL | these won't be the same next year, i can say that much | 17:51 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +8900 cases (now 976437), +184 deaths (now 49492), +1298 recoveries (now 204833) — US: +9006 cases (now 226378), +189 deaths (now 5334), +1323 recoveries (now 10265) — New York, US: +8480 cases (now 92381), +154 deaths (now 2373) | 17:52 |
BobCat | Hey stats nerds, does that look like a 5% mortality rate? | 17:54 |
synaps3 | !world | 17:56 |
synaps3 | %world | 17:56 |
ubLIX | %data world | 17:56 |
Brainstorm | ubLIX: In all areas, World, there are 976437 cases, 49492 deaths (5.1% of cases), 204833 recoveries as of April 02, 15:49Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.7% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 19.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 17:56 |
synaps3 | danke | 17:56 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:47 UTC: UK coronavirus live: death toll rises by 569 to 2,921: Boris Johnson still symptomatic; Matt Hancock to address testing; Eddie Large’s son says comedian has died after contracting coronavirus — from r/WorldNews at 15:47: UK coronavirus: death toll rises by 569 to 2,921 → https://is.gd/iSDEQ5 | 17:57 |
rahiakherajot[m] | %data | 18:00 |
Brainstorm | rahiakherajot[m]: In all areas, World, there are 976437 cases, 49492 deaths (5.1% of cases), 204833 recoveries as of April 02, 15:49Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.7% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 19.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 18:00 |
aradesh | almost a million | 18:01 |
BobCat | what does the millionth customer win? | 18:02 |
BobCat | all expenses paid cruise? | 18:02 |
ubLIX | a raised eyebrow in the crematorium | 18:03 |
LjL | italy civil protection press conference blah blah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrT7cIJGZFM | 18:03 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +5424 cases (now 981861), +774 deaths (now 50266), +1431 recoveries (now 206264) — US: +600 cases (now 226978), +9 deaths (now 5343) — Italy: +4668 cases (now 115242), +760 deaths (now 13915), +1431 recoveries (now 18278) | 18:07 |
aradesh | there's no press conference here, i wonde why | 18:08 |
LjL | italy civil protection conference starting now, transcribing | 18:09 |
LjL | Sergio Iavicoli is present, director of epidemiology at INAIL | 18:09 |
aradesh | lol, football players complaining about now being paid (sorry that i find it funny, they just earn so much) | 18:09 |
aradesh | not* | 18:09 |
LjL | aradesh, johnson is "still symptomatic" | 18:09 |
LjL | today's bulletin | 18:09 |
LjL | total of positives: 83049 | 18:09 |
aradesh | LjL: yeah but usually they've been having other politicians giving briefings | 18:09 |
LjL | +2477 compared to yesterday | 18:10 |
aradesh | maybe it's because yesterdays corona briefing went so well... i'm glad it wasn't just me who thought, "???" at the answers they were giving https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/.e/interactive/html5-video-media/2020/04/02/telegraph_front_page_desktop.jpg | 18:10 |
LjL | 4053 are in ICU, 28540 are symptomatic in hospital, while 50464 (61%) are at home | 18:10 |
aradesh | was like, "we can't make enough tests because of not having a chemical in a big enough quantity" "what chemical is it?" "a special chemical" | 18:10 |
LjL | we note this number is growing as a percentage | 18:10 |
LjL | +760 deceased | 18:10 |
LjL | total recovered: 20278, +1431 | 18:11 |
LjL | "cross" system: 105 patients transfered from lombardy to elsewhere, +2 compared to yesterday | 18:11 |
LjL | 32 were transfered to Germany | 18:11 |
LjL | there are 16506 volunteers active | 18:11 |
LjL | pre-triage tents outside hospitals are 790, 151 in prisons (same as before) | 18:12 |
LjL | got 101 million in donations | 18:12 |
LjL | today the second medical task force has left to lombardy, piedmont, emilia-romagna, trentino-south tyrol and valle d'aosta | 18:13 |
LjL | the structure at Bergamo's fair is ready | 18:14 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 16:03 UTC: Oil prices surge after Trump claims Russia and Saudi Arabia agree deal - business live: Rolling coverage of the latest economic and financial news as oil prices jump by more than 30% and the US jobless report reveals scale of coronavirus damage [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/NWALGu | 18:14 |
ecks | so definitely a plateau but not really going down yet | 18:14 |
LjL | ecks, do you have the "true" number as usual? | 18:14 |
LjL | true new cases | 18:14 |
LjL | now letting doctor whatever speak: | 18:15 |
LjL | today's subject is the relationship between work and health | 18:15 |
ecks | +4,668 new cases and +760 deaths | 18:15 |
LjL | those who all still working, starting with healthcare workers, those are 9.7% of infected, a large number | 18:15 |
LjL | ecks, so yeah similar... i have a 4k-something in mind from yesterday | 18:16 |
ecks | yeah, 4,782 yesterday | 18:16 |
onderscore | LjL: how long for are healthcare workers quarantined for? | 18:16 |
LjL | this is "linear" but it really needs to be linear with a slightly smaller daily increase imo :\ | 18:16 |
LjL | onderscore, i believe they aren't ;( | 18:16 |
LjL | onderscore, if they're positive they have to wear PPEs | 18:16 |
LjL | which is kind of ridiculous | 18:16 |
LjL | also implying that if they aren't they don't | 18:17 |
LjL | this doctor is saying words, i will spare you from reading them | 18:17 |
onderscore | LjL: if that's the case, then it's not so the healthcare system won't run out of staff | 18:18 |
onderscore | it's so* | 18:18 |
LjL | sure, but it's not great | 18:18 |
onderscore | I agree | 18:18 |
LjL | %cases greece | 18:18 |
Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Greece, there are 1514 cases, 53 deaths (3.5% of cases), 61 recoveries as of April 02, 16:04Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Greece for time series data. | 18:18 |
LjL | that's not a very good death rate considering the relatively small number of cases | 18:19 |
LjL | it's often less than that when around 1500 cases | 18:19 |
LjL | (based on my brain's memories of it) | 18:19 |
LjL | %wa median age in greece | 18:19 |
Brainstorm | LjL, Wolfram|Alpha (Greece | median age): Result: 43.3 years (world rank: 7th) (2015 estimate) → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=median+age+in+greece | 18:19 |
tinwhiskers | %wa median age in Tonga | 18:20 |
Brainstorm | tinwhiskers, Wolfram|Alpha (Tonga | median age): Result: 21.3 years (world rank: 149th) (2015 estimate) → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=median+age+in+Tonga | 18:20 |
LjL | he's talking about "psycho-social risk" now, they'll talk to the union of psychologists tomorrow, and create a platform and support guidelines to offer a coordinated network | 18:20 |
LjL | for prevention of burn-out | 18:20 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, that's pretty close... not even an order of magnitude different | 18:21 |
LjL | questions now: | 18:21 |
tinwhiskers | Heh | 18:21 |
genera | 1514 cases is how much of the population? could the bot that do automatically? | 18:21 |
AimHere | Greek pop is 10 million oo 0.15% | 18:21 |
AimHere | *so | 18:22 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +948 cases (now 982809), +25 deaths (now 50291), +8 recoveries (now 206272) — Piemonte, Italy: +558 cases (now 10353), +97 deaths (now 983), +132 recoveries (now 571) — Lombardia, Italy: +1292 cases (now 46065), +367 deaths (now 7960), +814 recoveries (now 12229) | 18:22 |
LjL | Q: tests, you told us the number of tests which has been 600k so far doesn't correspond to the actual number of tested people. wouldn't it be better to obtain the number of tested people from the regions, which test further? also the daily data can be influenced by that: yesterday there were more positives, but also more tests, but some of those tests will be the double tests made on recovered people, etc... wouldn't it be better to provide the actual | 18:22 |
LjL | number of tested people? | 18:22 |
genera | so maybe not the percent is good but the per 100 000 | 18:22 |
AimHere | No wait, more like 0.015 | 18:22 |
LjL | A: we give the number of tests because the data communicated to us by the regions is that. there are activities by the ISS that verify this number, and group together the people who have had 3 tests (since 2 negatives are required to be called recovered) | 18:23 |
LjL | Q: i'd like a comment on the numbers, is it accurate to talk about "stabilization", or is it more a of decrease? and symptomatic people who are in self-isolation, there's the issue of relatives, who have to self-isolate but have not been tested, and without a test, employers do not recognize them as on sick leave. to INAIL i'd like to ask how people who got infected on the workplace are indemnified | 18:24 |
tinwhiskers | genera: offloop.net/covid19/ gives the per 100,000 rates. 14.5 currently for cases in Greece. | 18:25 |
genera | good | 18:25 |
LjL | A: since a few days ago, 27 March at least, we are witnessing a decrease of people hospitalized, of people who to ICU, today that number is very small, with an increment since yesterday of +18 people, so we're seeing a number of values that show stabilization. i cannot tell you if we're already decreasing, or when that will begin, but what I can say is that we must keep on with the restrictive measures and correct behaviors, because very little is enough | 18:26 |
LjL | to create a spike in contagion. | 18:26 |
aradesh | finally UK press briefing starts | 18:26 |
LjL | A by INAIL doctor: the relatives of positives are in self-isolation for 14 days, and as to the specifics, we are protecting those people, although I thank you for the suggestion and we'll have internal feedback about that. About applying... I'd like to remind we activated a specific number for COVID-19 work incidents, and when deaths occur we quickly indemnify the survivors. | 18:28 |
LjL | We are also proactive, so we follow news of injuries from the press too, even if they are not reported to us directly. | 18:28 |
LjL | Q: what the guidelines for companies and industries to restart production, while allowing workers to operate safely? | 18:30 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 16:19 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Labour urges UK government to publish findings of 2016 pandemic drill — from r/WorldNews at 16:19: Anger as Japanese Prime Minister offers two cloth masks per family while refusing to declare coronavirus emergency → https://is.gd/ZEfIlG | 18:31 |
LjL | A: This is a central topic and it's probably the most complex one to manage. Aside from media debates on PPEs, which are important, I think management is more complex than that, for instance it's important to regular gatherings, hygiene... as the PM told us, we'll have to face a "phrase 2" that will happen gradually. One very important measure will be managing vulnerable workers. | 18:32 |
LjL | There will be a doctor who will be able to manage older workers or those with chronic diseases. | 18:32 |
oxalis | I got 4 KN95 masks, and I think they're counterfit | 18:33 |
LjL | 80% of people working are working from home, which was a forced choice and not optimal, but research on this is also important. Medicine focuses on diagnostics, treatments and vaccines, but it's also important to find management solutions, while keeping health at the core with scientific requirements, but they must be combined with work necessities, and that is a challenge. | 18:33 |
LjL | oxalis, what makes you think that? | 18:34 |
oxalis | The Box says FDA approved... | 18:34 |
oxalis | The FDA doesn't approve KN95 masks | 18:34 |
oxalis | They approve N95 masks | 18:34 |
oxalis | https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Iadoc5BI/F08E9019-8BE3-495E-B126-F2A083D43CA9.JPG | 18:36 |
oxalis | https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/mAVUSYqN/BF6C5423-62F5-48A6-8AE5-7E2A37A37412.JPG | 18:36 |
LjL | oxalis, what is the difference? my FFP2 masks are KN95, or at least that's what's written on them. but i was never clear on the relationship between American N95 etc ratings, and European FFPsomething | 18:37 |
oxalis | "Point of Attention #3" concerns me as well | 18:37 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +4072 cases (now 986881), +104 deaths (now 50395), +100 recoveries (now 206372) — US: +1613 cases (now 228674), +24 deaths (now 5369), +15 recoveries (now 10280) — Turkey: +2456 cases (now 18135), +79 deaths (now 356), +82 recoveries (now 415) | 18:37 |
oxalis | LjL technically there is no difference.. It's the chain of custody/documentation about the providance of the materials that makes the difference | 18:38 |
LjL | ah | 18:38 |
oxalis | but item #3 though | 18:38 |
LjL | well, Italy apparently received a batch of masks that stated they were FPP2 and so they gave them to doctors, then turns out they really weren't, and there was a bit of a (small) scandal | 18:38 |
oxalis | "Please don't approach the fireworks" | 18:38 |
LjL | oxalis, that sounds like a terrible translation from chinese | 18:38 |
oxalis | I think it means "not for smoke" | 18:39 |
oxalis | 🤷🏿 | 18:39 |
aradesh | weird choice of words... our official doing press conference is talking about his "5 pillar plan" | 18:40 |
LjL | the press conference is still ongoing by the way, but the questions are making me sleepy | 18:40 |
LjL | well, now it's no longer ongoing | 18:40 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 16:34 UTC: UK coronavirus live: Matt Hancock holds daily briefing, as hospital death toll rises by 569: Health secretary writes off £13.4bn of historic NHS debt; Boris Johnson still symptomatic; comedian Eddie Large dies after contracting coronavirus [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/iSDEQ5 | 18:47 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:50 UTC: Watch live: New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo holds a press conference on the coronavirus outbreak: New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is holding his daily press conference on the COVID-19 outbreak, which has infected more than 84,000 people in the state as of Thursday morning. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/iItyC2 | 19:03 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +3907 cases (now 990788), +309 deaths (now 50704), +4 recoveries (now 206376) — US: +3432 cases (now 232106), +187 deaths (now 5556), +4 recoveries (now 10284) — New Jersey, US: +3335 cases (now 25590), +182 deaths (now 537) | 19:07 |
Jigsy | Slowly reaching a million. | 19:13 |
Jigsy | Still nowhere near Black Death levels, though. | 19:14 |
Jigsy | Like, not even close. | 19:14 |
ThomCat[m] | Well, concidering "Bubonic plague is fatal in about 50-70% of untreated cases, but perhaps 10-15% when treated" | 19:16 |
Strantrickt[m] | %data Turkey | 19:16 |
Brainstorm | Strantrickt[m]: In all areas, Turkey, there are 18135 cases, 356 deaths (2.0% of cases), 415 recoveries as of April 02, 17:04Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data. | 19:16 |
Jigsy | ThomCat[m]: Yeah, but medicine and science have advanced since the middle ages. | 19:17 |
rajrajraj | Do you think covid bomb will explode in india | 19:18 |
Jigsy | Though the middle ages makes me wonder what the fuck happened given say, saniation and hygine. | 19:18 |
Jigsy | Esp. when you look back at the Romans. | 19:18 |
python476 | I mailed my city hall after a call for help, no answer | 19:18 |
python476 | weird | 19:18 |
romare | hey Strantrickt[m] 601 of them are medical workers that are the victim of the safety measures taken by that government you like | 19:18 |
ThomCat[m] | Jigsyit's still a very silly comparison. At the highest level, bubonic plague is a bacteria, not a virus | 19:18 |
Jigsy | ThomCat[m]: It still decimated 60% of Europe. | 19:19 |
rajrajraj | Is India under control? | 19:19 |
ThomCat[m] | Yes, but COVID-19 was never going to be the bubonic plague. | 19:19 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 17:06 UTC: UK coronavirus live: Matt Hancock sets goal of 100,000 Covid-19 tests per day by end of April: Health secretary writes off £13.4bn of historic NHS debt; Boris Johnson still symptomatic; comedian Eddie Large dies after contracting coronavirus [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/iSDEQ5 | 19:19 |
Strantrickt[m] | <romare "hey Strantrickt 601 of them are "> Dear health workers | 19:21 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +6724 cases (now 997512), +277 deaths (now 50981), +2255 recoveries (now 208631) — US: +3866 cases (now 235972), +219 deaths (now 5775), +20 recoveries (now 10304) — Louisiana, US: +2726 cases (now 9150), +37 deaths (now 310) | 19:22 |
romare | Strantrickt[m]: not that very dear according to MoH | 19:22 |
Nokaji | eddie large went to hospital initially over heart problems, apparently he caught the covid while there | 19:29 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 17:24 UTC: /u/The_Fadge: Cina — from r/WorldNews at 17:24: A 'faith healer' who sold COVID-19 protection kits in London for £91 is now being investigated → https://is.gd/45Qe0J | 19:36 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +645 cases (now 998157), +483 deaths (now 51464), +60 recoveries (now 208691) — Afghanistan: +21 cases (now 258), +5 recoveries (now 10) — Alabama, US: +53 cases (now 1161), +4 deaths (now 32) | 19:37 |
LjL | https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/en/ Milan and Turin sure aren't looking good despite general "stability" in Italy, if you look under "The Italian provinces with most cases" | 19:37 |
BobCat | %data world | 19:38 |
Brainstorm | BobCat: In all areas, World, there are 998157 cases, 51464 deaths (5.2% of cases), 208691 recoveries as of April 02, 17:34Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.7% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 19.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 19:38 |
python476 | M hit by tonight | 19:44 |
mefistofeles | so NYC now getting more cases than any other country and soon more deaths as well :/ | 19:45 |
Nokaji | just went down from 999,907 cases to 998,767 | 19:45 |
tinwhiskers | The totals are doing weird things sometimes. That needs some attention | 19:46 |
AimHere | Sometimes there are data glitches that get corrected. The last I looked, Florida's deaths tripled overnight, but I suspect that's an error | 19:51 |
AimHere | Either that or the Spring Break kids visited their grandmas a week ago | 19:51 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +1394 cases (now 999551) — France: +2116 cases (now 59105), +471 deaths (now 4503), +1493 recoveries (now 12428) — Afghanistan: +21 cases (now 258), +5 recoveries (now 10) | 19:52 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:39 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US cases top 226,000 as torrent of jobless claims continues — from r/WorldNews at 17:39: More than 1,000 in US die in a single day from coronavirus, doubling the worst daily death toll of the flu → https://is.gd/QugdiB | 19:52 |
oriba | "In April 2015, 774 plaintiffs launched a lawsuit against Johns Hopkins University, the pharmaceutical company Bristol-Myers Squibb, and the Rockefeller Foundation(...)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiments | 20:01 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +1219 cases (now 1000770), +69 deaths (now 51367) since 3 minutes ago — Algeria: +23 deaths (now 86) since 3 minutes ago — Georgia: +3 cases (now 134) since 3 minutes ago | 20:06 |
Nokaji | 1,000,168 | 20:08 |
tinwhiskers | \o/ | 20:09 |
Nokaji | a trifling detail | 20:09 |
tinwhiskers | Can we stop counting now? | 20:09 |
euod[m] | rajrajraj nowhere is immune to it, no. | 20:12 |
euod[m] | rajrajraj: there's cases in every country where there's testing. | 20:12 |
BobCat | a million people and one clown | 20:14 |
tinwhiskers | euod[m]: there's no cases here in Tonga | 20:14 |
tinwhiskers | Although we do test overseas so strictly you are correct | 20:15 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, how are your lungs? | 20:15 |
tinwhiskers | Much the same LjL | 20:15 |
LjL | hm | 20:15 |
LjL | well if you manage to stay in the one country with no cases, maybe that's actually better than finding a doctor with a clue | 20:16 |
penny_ | a small island sounds ideal | 20:16 |
tinwhiskers | Yeah. Perhaps. That die is cast now so no point in second guessing it. | 20:17 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +721 cases (now 1001491), +17 deaths (now 51384), +23 recoveries (now 210214) since figures from 2 minutes ago — Turkey: +622 cases (now 18757) since figures from 2 minutes ago — Austria: +30 cases (now 11106) since figures from 2 minutes ago | 20:20 |
tinwhiskers | rajrajraj: looking at India it's going very exponential with a fairly consistent doubling time of about 4 days. At least the testing ability had not yet been overcome, but as yet the lockdowns in India are not having any real effect. | 20:33 |
tinwhiskers | But then the lockdowns have only been in place for about a week so you wouldn't expect any effect yet | 20:34 |
____GOD____ | Both india and africa will likely be devistated | 20:36 |
____GOD____ | Any here know if there is already a plan to bill china for the World pandemic? | 20:37 |
tinwhiskers | Maybe you should troll somewhere else | 20:38 |
____GOD____ | Actually serious | 20:38 |
tinwhiskers | Then, no. | 20:38 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:24 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US cases top 226,000 as torrent of jobless claims continues — from r/WorldNews at 18:24: More than 1,000 in US die in a single day from coronavirus, doubling the worst daily death toll of the flu → https://is.gd/QugdiB | 20:40 |
Nokaji | https://www.businessinsider.com/georgia-gov-says-he-just-learned-about-asymptomatic-spread-coronavirus-2020-4?op=1&r=US&IR=T | 20:49 |
Nokaji | Georgia's governor claims he didn't know asymptomatic people could spread the coronavirus 'until the last 24 hours.' Doctors have been warning about it for months. | 20:50 |
tinwhiskers | Jesus | 20:50 |
dRGoRi | Hello y'all | 20:50 |
Nokaji | Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp will issue a shelter-in-place order for Georgia residents on Thursday [today: Ed] to help stop the spread of the coronavirus | 20:51 |
tinwhiskers | Dereliction of duty | 20:51 |
tinwhiskers | Nokaji: is he Republican? | 20:54 |
tinwhiskers | (you probably don't need to answer that) | 20:55 |
dRGoRi | !cases France | 20:55 |
CovBot | In France there have been a total of 59,105 cases as of 2020-04-02 18:33:00 UTC. Of these 42,174 (71.4%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 12,428 (21.0%) have definitely recovered and 4,503 (7.6%) have died. | 20:55 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 18:53 UTC: How India's coronavirus lockdown is affecting its poorest citizens – video: After Narendra Modi told Indians to ‘forget what going out means’ as the country attempts to slow the spread of Covid-19, millions of the country’s poorest residents, from day labourers to homeless citizens, are bearing the brunt of [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/QdzGnY | 20:59 |
dRGoRi | %cases france | 21:08 |
Brainstorm | TypeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute '__getitem__' (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/covid.py", line 104, in covid) | 21:08 |
Samizdat | https://archive.org/details/COVID-19-Deceptive-Agenda North Carolona osteopath, Dr. Rashid Buttar breaks down the biological, political and logistical elements of the COVID-19 agenda. | 21:09 |
BobCat | Osteopath == quack, right? | 21:10 |
dunnp | this guy is a quack | 21:10 |
Samizdat | Says who? | 21:10 |
dunnp | He is known for his controversial use of chelation therapy for numerous conditions, including autism and cancer.[1] He has been reprimanded by the North Carolina Board of Medical Examiners for unethical treatment of patients. | 21:11 |
BobCat | If it walks like a duck.... | 21:11 |
Samizdat | Back it up, sonny. | 21:11 |
dunnp | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashid_Buttar | 21:11 |
Samizdat | You too, BobCat. | 21:11 |
BobCat | nice! | 21:11 |
BobCat | fucking wp article slamdunk | 21:11 |
Samizdat | Back it up. No, don't just regurgitate Wikiality, the Truthiness Encyclopedia. | 21:11 |
Samizdat | You got nothin.' | 21:11 |
dunnp | https://quackwatch.org/cases/civil/buttar/complaint/ | 21:11 |
dunnp | %title | 21:12 |
Brainstorm | dunnp: From quackwatch.org: Rashid Buttar Sued for Fraud | Quackwatch | 21:12 |
Samizdat | Still got nothin.' I'm looking for something -- *anything* -- in your own words. | 21:12 |
dunnp | %title https://quackwatch.org/cases/board/med/buttar/complaint/ | 21:12 |
Brainstorm | dunnp: From quackwatch.org: Rashid Buttar Charged with Unprofessional Conduct | Quackwatch | 21:12 |
Samizdat | Come on, sonny boys, you can do it. | 21:12 |
Samizdat | No, still regurgitating. | 21:12 |
dunnp | pretty sure thats enough | 21:12 |
Samizdat | Your own words, sonny,. | 21:12 |
BobCat | Samizdat he touched my peepee | 21:12 |
BobCat | my own words | 21:12 |
mefistofeles | calm down | 21:13 |
Samizdat | Bring your parents down to the basement, let me speak with them. | 21:13 |
BobCat | who has op to quiet Samizdat? | 21:13 |
twomoon | heh | 21:13 |
dRGoRi | Hey Mephisto ! What's the brainstorm's syntax again ? | 21:14 |
BobCat | I'm part of the conspiracy, big pharma is paying me to silence you | 21:14 |
LjL | Samizdat, you are quieted. that tone is unwelcome, and so is quackery. | 21:14 |
BobCat | LjL your Perdue Pharma check is in the mail. Wear gloves. | 21:15 |
LjL | BobCat, on the other hand, you don't need to get down to others' level | 21:15 |
pokiehl | lel | 21:15 |
twomoon | lol perdue pharma | 21:17 |
pyna | did someone say something mean about sea lions? | 21:17 |
LjL | %cases France | 21:20 |
Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, France, there are 59105 cases, 4503 deaths (7.6% of cases), 12428 recoveries as of 5 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=France for time series data. | 21:20 |
mefistofeles | dRGoRi: %cases country | 21:20 |
tinwhiskers | I don't think the sea lions would stand for that | 21:20 |
LjL | dRGoRi, ↑ fixed | 21:20 |
LjL | syntax was right, bot was broken | 21:20 |
mefistofeles | LjL: haha, should put a try except to catch that exception ? | 21:21 |
mefistofeles | I mean, not sure why it is happening, so nvm actually | 21:21 |
dRGoRi | I tried that same command in the PM and an error is returned ): | 21:21 |
dRGoRi | Thanks | 21:22 |
Jigsy | %cases world | 21:22 |
Brainstorm | Jigsy: In all areas, World, there are 1005135 cases, 51576 deaths (5.1% of cases), 210519 recoveries as of 7 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.7% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 19.7% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 21:22 |
dRGoRi | Have a good day or night still | 21:26 |
IronY | looks like Canadas mass panic will start Friday | 21:32 |
genera | why? | 21:33 |
genera | an orderly sceduled panic? | 21:33 |
IronY | genera: Government is finally going to give its projections | 21:34 |
IronY | words like 'sobering' and 'grim' are being used to describe them | 21:34 |
IronY | It wont be anyting that people 'in the know' will find alarming | 21:34 |
IronY | but the general population will kick into high gear | 21:34 |
genera | there is a preprint of their announcement? | 21:36 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +554 cases (now 1005430), +27 deaths (now 51596), +19 recoveries (now 210519) since data from 35 minutes ago — Afghanistan: +15 cases (now 273) since data from 35 minutes ago — Canada: +10 cases (now 11118) since data from 35 minutes ago | 21:39 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:38 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases near 1 million, Manhattan real estate grinds to a halt — from r/WorldNews at 19:38: Big Brother in the Age of Coronavirus: 100+ Groups Warn Against Exploiting Pandemic to Permanently Expand Surveillance State - "These are extraordinary times, but human rights law still applies." → https://is.gd/QugdiB | 21:52 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +950 cases (now 1006380), +50 deaths (now 51646), +36 recoveries (now 210555) since data from 20 minutes ago — US: +1073 cases (now 238823), +55 deaths (now 5768), +36 recoveries (now 10360) since data from 50 minutes ago — Illinois, US: +679 cases (now 7695), +11 deaths (now 157) since data from 50 minutes ago | 21:54 |
tang3nt_man[m] | :-( | 21:58 |
tang3nt_man[m] | 👎️ | 21:58 |
tang3nt_man[m] | 1 Million 👎️ | 21:59 |
mefistofeles | https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1245382719242145794?s=20 | 21:59 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:51 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 1 million, Manhattan real estate grinds to a halt — from r/WorldNews at 19:51: Big Brother in the Age of Coronavirus: 100+ Groups Warn Against Exploiting Pandemic to Permanently Expand Surveillance State - "These are extraordinary times, but human rights law still applies." → https://is.gd/QugdiB | 22:07 |
python476 | 1M officially | 22:08 |
python476 | 10M according to the riot leaders | 22:08 |
lf94 | lol | 22:09 |
CoronaBot | /r/worldnews: Anger as Japanese Prime Minister offers two cloth masks per family while refusing to declare coronavirus emergency (11546 votes) | https://redd.it/ftodx1 | 22:12 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:06 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 1 million, Americans may face relief check delays — from r/WorldNews at 20:06: Big Brother in the Age of Coronavirus: 100+ Groups Warn Against Exploiting Pandemic to Permanently Expand Surveillance State - "These are extraordinary times, but human rights law still applies." → https://is.gd/QugdiB | 22:21 |
tang3nt_man[m] | !cases italy | 22:21 |
CovBot | In Italy there have been a total of 115,242 cases as of 2020-04-02 20:19:00 UTC. Of these 83,049 (72.1%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 18,278 (15.9%) have definitely recovered and 13,915 (12.1%) have died. | 22:21 |
electricprism[m] | !cases united states | 22:24 |
CovBot | In United States there have been a total of 240,344 cases as of 2020-04-02 20:19:00 UTC. Of these 224,172 (93.3%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 10,365 (4.3%) have definitely recovered and 5,807 (2.4%) have died. | 22:24 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +1658 cases (now 1008038), +79 deaths (now 51725), +27 recoveries (now 210582) since data from 36 minutes ago — US: +1521 cases (now 240344), +39 deaths (now 5807), +5 recoveries (now 10365) since data from 36 minutes ago — Massachusetts, US: +1228 cases (now 8966), +32 deaths (now 154) since data from 36 minutes ago | 22:24 |
tang3nt_man[m] | !cases spain | 22:28 |
CovBot | In Spain there have been a total of 110,238 cases as of 2020-04-02 20:19:00 UTC. Of these 73,399 (66.6%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 26,743 (24.3%) have definitely recovered and 10,096 (9.2%) have died. | 22:28 |
LjL | People, use the not in PM please if you're just checking for yourselves | 22:29 |
tang3nt_man[m] | I don't know how you do that? | 22:31 |
tang3nt_man[m] | Cov Bot: !cases france | 22:32 |
Scarecr0w | No space on the name "CovBot" | 22:33 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 20:22 UTC: Coronavirus US live: Trump uses Defense Production Act to make ventilators: DNC confirms nominating convention postponed 6.65 million filed for US unemployment last week US facing hunger crisis as demand for food banks soars See all our coronavirus coverage [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/HG3MG8 | 22:36 |
MinceR | probably /msg CovBot !cases france | 22:37 |
MinceR | possibly without the ! | 22:37 |
telliksem0h | !cases california | 22:44 |
CovBot | In California, United States there have been a total of 10,018 cases as of 2020-04-02 20:34:00 UTC. Of these 9,803 (97.9%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 0 (0.0%) have definitely recovered and 215 (2.1%) have died. | 22:45 |
Timvde | !cases world | 22:55 |
Timvde | %cases world | 22:55 |
Brainstorm | Timvde: In all areas, World, there are 1008395 cases, 52624 deaths (5.2% of cases), 210598 recoveries as of 6 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.7% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 20.0% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 22:55 |
CovBot | In World there have been a total of 1,008,228 cases as of 2020-04-02 20:34:00 UTC. Of these 745,025 (73.9%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 210,583 (20.9%) have definitely recovered and 52,620 (5.2%) have died. | 22:55 |
Timvde | That was really slow, damn | 22:55 |
IronY | not sure why the number 1 million is large for people | 22:56 |
IronY | there are over 7 billion people on the planet | 22:56 |
LjL | i'm not sure that's related to the reason why people consider a number large | 22:59 |
IronY | I guess I just look at it as a percentage | 22:59 |
IronY | and we are at but a drop in a bucket | 22:59 |
Nokaji | I million and global in 90 days, that's pretty impressive, it's ancestors would be proud | 23:00 |
LjL | or another way it could be seen is it's as if a city the size of mine, which is considered large in italy, were all sick | 23:00 |
IronY | I also live in a city of a million | 23:01 |
LjL | or if an earthquake caused 50000 deaths, it would be talked about for quite a while, see 2011 | 23:01 |
IronY | i would say '1 canadian city in the scope of every city in the world is not that much' | 23:01 |
LjL | if the whole planet exploded it would likely be nothing compared to the set of all planets in the universe | 23:02 |
LjL | i'm not sure this gets us anywhere | 23:02 |
IronY | Ur not leaving the universe any time soon :PP | 23:02 |
Timvde | I'm also not leaving my city any time soon though | 23:02 |
IronY | I am surprised that 1million people is a large city in italy how ever | 23:02 |
IronY | you guys have more population and significantly less space | 23:03 |
IronY | I figured it was millions per city | 23:03 |
Timvde | But most of Italy is relatively high density | 23:03 |
Timvde | There aren't thousands of square kilometers with barely any people living there like in the US | 23:03 |
IronY | we also like to cluster our cities in amalgamation in canada | 23:04 |
IronY | for example, 'The greater city of ottawa' 10 years ago was like 5 cities | 23:04 |
Timvde | Brussels (by itself, there's also the *Region* of Brussels) has < 200k inhabitants | 23:06 |
Timvde | (The entire region has about 1.2m) | 23:06 |
Timvde | The second largest city in Belgium is Antwerp with just over 500k people | 23:07 |
Timvde | But we just have a lot of smaller cities (10-50k) close to each other | 23:08 |
Timvde | And even in between cities a lot of people live | 23:08 |
Brainstorm | New bulletins for World: +1826 cases (now 1010054), +246 deaths (now 52866), +1295 recoveries (now 211878) since data from 34 minutes ago — Spain: +1656 cases (now 112065), +242 deaths (now 10348) since data from 34 minutes ago — Germany: +100 cases (now 84788), +3 deaths (now 1107), +1040 recoveries (now 22440) since data from 34 minutes ago | 23:08 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:55 UTC: Worldwide coronavirus cases reach 1 million, doubling in a week as death toll tops 50,000: The virus threatens to spread widely across Africa, where several countries have seen hundreds of positive tests, according to Johns Hopkins University. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Oil4GQ | 23:13 |
dunnp | I was just able to get a 1 hour alcohol delivery but no food options still | 23:14 |
oriba | LjL: follow up to our M$ topic some days ago: Microsoft-Software: Safe for Europe? (Full Documentary, 2018) -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duaYLW7LQvg | 23:15 |
euod[m] | dunnp: yeah same in a way. | 23:17 |
oriba | LjL: M$ & JHU and some other big players are very involed in the covid-19 issue... I'm sure it's not that just altruism... | 23:17 |
oriba | ...just read a (german) aticle about it... heavy stuff... | 23:18 |
oriba | ... good for activate puking. | 23:18 |
telliksem0h | !cases california | 23:21 |
CovBot | In California, United States there have been a total of 10,018 cases as of 2020-04-02 21:04:00 UTC. Of these 9,803 (97.9%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 0 (0.0%) have definitely recovered and 215 (2.1%) have died. | 23:21 |
Scarecr0w | dang, we hit 1mil cases worldwide, huh? That's not good lol | 23:23 |
IronY | Exponential growth is growing exponentially :D | 23:25 |
telliksem0h | Whoah... really? There are 1 million confirmed cases worldwide now? | 23:26 |
IronY | https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/coronavirus-vaccine-pittsburgh-university-lancet-study-covid-pandemic-a9442536.html?fbclid=IwAR0aksDiGIOEsf_ZtmcE55BnluCIcpRFBBIc7F2sAj6PLk_FVty64GVC3V4 | 23:26 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:15 UTC: Need for nurses is driving record pay as coronavirus nears its peak: States such as New York are urging health-care workers to come to their hospitals to respond to the coronavirus pandemic. Demand for nurses is so great, some are being offered more than $10,000 a week in crisis pay. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/pw4cVA | 23:28 |
IronY | ^ That bothers the fuck out of me | 23:28 |
IronY | so so much | 23:28 |
IronY | Call me selfish, but I do not think my country should be exporting nurses to a country who is 2 weeks ahead of the rate of spread we are at | 23:29 |
IronY | I would go as far has saying that should be made instantly illegal | 23:29 |
IronY | (I do how ever think we should also pay them heavily of course) | 23:29 |
bin_bash | then you should compete | 23:30 |
dunnp | illegal to go work somewhere else? | 23:30 |
IronY | dunnp: Illegal to export required resources, which in this situation, includes people | 23:30 |
IronY | dunnp: it is illegal in some places to go outside, so its not a leap | 23:30 |
dunnp | where do you see anything about nurses going to different countries? | 23:31 |
IronY | dunnp: The facebook message my sister just sent me who is a nurse, asking if she wants to go to the states | 23:31 |
IronY | the message contains an email from her union | 23:31 |
dunnp | oh... I thought you were talking about the article about NuWest | 23:32 |
dunnp | from Canada? | 23:33 |
IronY | dunnp: yeah | 23:33 |
IronY | dunnp: we are already understaffed, I am not trying to be greedy or anything, I get they need them | 23:33 |
IronY | but we will need them very shortly as well, and they wont have any available to send us | 23:34 |
dunnp | I mean they can go back to Canada if it gets bad there | 23:34 |
IronY | if it was a month or two ago Id be all for it | 23:34 |
IronY | because chances are, there gong to get sick | 23:35 |
IronY | 2 months ago, they could of went, helped , got sick, developed antibodies, came back, helped | 23:35 |
nixonix | the border might be closed soon | 23:36 |
IronY | it is closed | 23:36 |
IronY | to everyone but truckers and medical staff | 23:36 |
BobCat | The US has a lot of foreign doctors, it's way more %age than any other jobs | 23:37 |
BobCat | My doctor is Russian | 23:37 |
BobCat | hmm, where did she go to school... | 23:38 |
IronY | who my sister? | 23:38 |
IronY | Laurentian U / Cambrian - Sudbury | 23:39 |
dunnp | https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-professions-us-noncitizens/u-s-relies-heavily-on-foreign-born-healthcare-workers-idUSKBN1O32FR | 23:39 |
dunnp | About 29 percent of physicians were born in other countries | 23:39 |
IronY | yes but they currently reside in the US :P | 23:40 |
BobCat | Astrakhan State Medical Academy | 23:41 |
BobCat | ^^ my doc | 23:42 |
IronY | Most doctors in Canada are 'new' Canadians aswell | 23:42 |
BobCat | It's a lot easier to get a work visa with an advanced degree | 23:42 |
IronY | despite the constant cases of people being caught faking said degrees | 23:44 |
BobCat | My doc better be legit, she checked my prostate | 23:48 |
IronY | i mean, it could of been a he | 23:48 |
BobCat | That's like fifth base. | 23:49 |
IronY | oh god, if I dont make it through covid at least thats a plus | 23:49 |
IronY | I am a few years away from prostate checks | 23:49 |
IronY | thanks, now I am scared to survive to | 23:49 |
BobCat | If having a woman stick her finger in your ass scares you, consider it foreplay for a co0lonoscopy | 23:51 |
IronY | I had a colonoscopy when i was like 15 | 23:51 |
IronY | I repressed it until just 5 mins ago | 23:51 |
IronY | ur on a roll | 23:51 |
IronY | (I even got to watch the monitor while it was being done because for some reason that was suppose to make it better)? | 23:51 |
BobCat | they drug you now, like twilight sleep | 23:52 |
IronY | well I guess that is a silver lining lol | 23:52 |
nixonix | with rohypnol? | 23:53 |
IronY | all the 3 girls in the Linux course I am teaching are struggling right now | 23:53 |
IronY | I never even considered that outcome | 23:53 |
IronY | the class has like a 20:1 male to female ratio | 23:53 |
IronY | so the ladies generally get QUITE a lot of peer support | 23:53 |
IronY | fml, I am going to need to account for this | 23:53 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:39 UTC: Coronavirus US live: Trump uses Defense Production Act to make ventilators: DNC confirms nominating convention postponed 6.65 million filed for US unemployment last week US facing hunger crisis as demand for food banks soars See all our coronavirus coverage [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/HG3MG8 | 23:58 |
IronY | LjL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkJELpndAOs interesting watch | 23:59 |
Scarecr0w | IronY: Could I ask where you are giving the Linux course? As a student, I'm interested. | 23:59 |
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