| nixonix | picovac aka coronavac. inactivated whole virus vacc like the other major chinese | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | picovac? another name? why do they all keep adding new names? | 00:00 |
| nixonix | sputnik have another name too, dont remember it. maybe more, they usually have many names... | 00:00 |
| nixonix | has | 00:00 |
| LjL | new names for variants, new names for vaccines | 00:01 |
| nixonix | drugs have many names too, for different market areas etc | 00:01 |
| nixonix | and when one name gets spoiled, you pick another | 00:01 |
| dTal | other plausible vaccine names: Rayovac, UNIVAC, Shop-Vac | 00:07 |
| ElJayEl | dTal, don't just make them public like that, you could make some money on them | 00:09 |
| ElJayEl | i have just VAC | 00:11 |
| ElJayEl | Vaccine for Avoiding COVID | 00:11 |
| ElJayEl | (unlike current vaccines) | 00:11 |
| dTal | oh are you spanish now, El Jayell | 00:13 |
| dTal | love the recursive acronym | 00:14 |
| specing | Vaccine for Avoiding COVID Cases in iNnoculated Entities | 00:18 |
| * dTal slaps specing with a trout for "iNnoculated" | 00:18 | |
| dTal | Vaccine Augmenting Coronavirus Cellular Immunity, Neutralizing Effect | 00:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Cholesterol pill found to cut Covid infections 'by up to 70 per cent' → https://is.gd/WVTsQP | 00:21 |
| nixonix | lots of tweets and other stuff, that might be interesting. i guess im pasting them here... | 00:29 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.politico.eu/article/fire-at-polish-vaccination-center-an-act-of-terror-says-health-minister/ | 00:29 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.politico.eu: Fire at Polish vaccination center an ‘act of terror,’ says health minister – POLITICO | 00:29 |
| nixonix | https://twitter.com/DataDrivenMD/status/1424223540715298820 | 00:30 |
| ElJayEl | %papers fenofibrate | 00:30 |
| Brainstorm | ElJayEl: An error occurred while searching. | 00:30 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2021.660490/full | 00:30 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.frontiersin.org: Frontiers | The Hyperlipidaemic Drug Fenofibrate Significantly Reduces Infection by SARS-CoV-2 in Cell Culture Models | Pharmacology | 00:30 |
| nixonix | https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1422911532350967811 | 00:32 |
| lunatunes | What do you guys think of kf94 masks? I'm sending my kid to school with one in hopes it works well. | 00:32 |
| nixonix | i dont know no more, but saw this recently (ffp3): https://twitter.com/itosettiMD_MBA/status/1423396517193437186 | 00:33 |
| nixonix | eric feigl-ding said something postivive about kf94 recently in his tweet | 00:34 |
| lunatunes | They seem to work really good in south korea. I did some research on which brand to buy so I wouldn't get scammed. | 00:35 |
| nixonix | https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1423794706388029440 | 00:35 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.bradfordhospitals.nhs.uk/2021/06/01/world-first-covid-19-vaccine-booster-study-launches-in-uk/ | 00:35 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.bradfordhospitals.nhs.uk: Global-first COVID-19 vaccine booster trial launches in Bradford – Bradford Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust | 00:35 |
| nixonix | 7 different vaccines | 00:36 |
| nixonix | https://twitter.com/martinmckee/status/1424244988045578241 | 00:36 |
| nixonix | https://twitter.com/ChristosArgyrop/status/1413905208061661189 | 00:37 |
| ElJayEl | lunatunes, KF94 is just a certification, and it's mostly the same as FFP2 and N95 | 00:37 |
| ElJayEl | what matters is the actual quality of the actual masks | 00:38 |
| ElJayEl | but fwiw i've seen some Korean (hence KF94-rated) masks on Amazon that had the shape of Auras instead of the usual silly vertical-beak shape | 00:38 |
| lunatunes | I get the brand by bluna which are adjustable. They cover the face well from what I've experienced. | 00:39 |
| nixonix | https://twitter.com/GYamey/status/1422313929087324161 | 00:41 |
| nixonix | https://twitter.com/itosettiMD_MBA/status/1424320229971214337 | 00:42 |
| ElJayEl | oh lord i found a link to a video by eric feigl-ding but there's no way i'm watching a replay of a 2h30 live video! | 00:42 |
| ElJayEl | sorry not a video by him | 00:42 |
| ElJayEl | i found it linked in his twitter | 00:42 |
| nixonix | https://twitter.com/yaneerbaryam/status/1424122372869742592 | 00:43 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.05.21260050v3 | 00:44 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: Progressive Increase in Virulence of Novel SARS-CoV-2 Variants in Ontario, Canada | medRxiv | 00:44 |
| ElJayEl | maybe i should hack something to give twitter urls a title eh | 00:49 |
| ElJayEl | damned twitter | 00:49 |
| nixonix | more on child hospitalizations https://twitter.com/JuliaRaifman/status/1424077820838436870 | 00:52 |
| nixonix | .title https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab691/6343417 | 00:52 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From academic.oup.com: Viral Load of SARS-CoV-2 in Respiratory Aerosols Emitted by COVID-19 Patients while Breathing, Talking, and Singing | Clinical Infectious Diseases | Oxford Academic | 00:52 |
| nixonix | mesa, col, on vacc effectiveness (includes link) https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1423700729705865217 | 00:53 |
| nixonix | i guess i could do that more often, instead of just plain links | 00:55 |
| LjL | the problem is i'd have to do something very twitter-specific, not even sure what tbh, unless i automatically change it into a nitter link in the background, and even then, many nitter instances don't work due to throttling | 00:56 |
| LjL | if i just wget a twitter page i get neither the title nor the content, although i guess i might get the content if i spoof the useragent | 01:00 |
| dTal | oh god, I just went to youtube, clicked the first covid video I saw ("COVID-19: Levels of Delta variant 'same in vaccinated people'" by Sky News) and read the comments | 01:02 |
| dTal | we are in deep deep trouble as a society | 01:02 |
| LjL | dTal, did you expect that particular fact not to fuel anti-vax stuff? | 01:03 |
| LjL | the vaccines failed to do what the politicians kinda promised they would do, which they did to avoid utter despair society-wise, i guess | 01:03 |
| dTal | It seems like everything fuels anti-vax stuff | 01:03 |
| LjL | i'm not surprised those against vaccines can and will use that to their advantage | 01:03 |
| dTal | We in our IRC channels were talking about the risk of breeding vaccine-escaping variants right from the get-go | 01:04 |
| dTal | de-facto in particular was the cassandra of that one | 01:04 |
| LjL | yes, well | 01:05 |
| LjL | i don't know if we've *bred* them | 01:05 |
| dTal | I remember him saying that we needed to vaccinate everyone in the world at once, not a slow rollout, or exactly this would happen | 01:05 |
| LjL | they kind of arose before vaccines created a *very* strong pressure | 01:05 |
| LjL | it may just be that fixating on the S-protein makes evasion a matter of mutating whatever | 01:06 |
| dTal | oh no we've definitely bred them. a variant that transmits well in vaccinated people? Like you said - *very* strong pressure | 01:06 |
| LjL | though i still stand by my strange theory that the initial variants arose wherever AstraZeneca was being trialled | 01:06 |
| dTal | it's a consequence of half vaccinating everyone and letting it run rampant | 01:06 |
| LjL | dTal, the variant arose and grew in India, where very few were vaccinated | 01:07 |
| dTal | who can say where it arose | 01:07 |
| LjL | dTal, anyway going from "they will end it" to "oh well, what did you expect" hardly surprisingly fuels theories, even if in this particular <200-people channel we "knew it" in advance | 01:08 |
| LjL | dTal, what matters is how efficiently it transmits. Delta dominated previous variants in places *with or without* mass vaccinations, so it's likely it was simply a more successful variant, like Alpha, regardless of vaccines | 01:08 |
| LjL | this doesn't mean that *future* variant won't be specifically vaccine-escaping ones though | 01:09 |
| dTal | The fact that it's a variant seems to be completely lost on the antivaxxers - their takeaway seems to be "vaccines don't work and never have" | 01:09 |
| LjL | in which case i think they may be comparatively much worse than Delta | 01:09 |
| nixonix | 617.2 developed before vaccines too | 01:09 |
| dTal | hm yes alright that's a good point | 01:09 |
| LjL | and if (since) the disease circulates widely among the vaccinated, due to the vaccination not creating sterile immunity, the emergence of actual vaccine-evading variants is all but certain | 01:10 |
| nixonix | and impossible to vaccinate everyone at once. we would have to wait for 3 years to produce them, and it wouldnt work anyway. some of them might not work for new variants anymore, impossible to get them at the same time everywhere in africa, peru etc | 01:10 |
| dTal | when you "actual", why doesn't Delta qualify? | 01:10 |
| nixonix | we have what we have | 01:10 |
| dTal | nixonix: yes, that's what I said at the time. You can't stockpile a bunch of vaccines and not give them to people, all while they're dying | 01:11 |
| LjL | dTal, because at least according to my take above, it didn't arise *because* of vaccines or *to* evade vaccines. it simply arose because it was advantageous, and it happens that its advantageous mutations also caused a loss of efficacy to vaccines, because... well, because it mutated! | 01:11 |
| specing | are there any new vaccine factories being built or are the companies just repurposing other vaccine lines for it? | 01:11 |
| LjL | Alpha was also vaccine-resistant comparatively | 01:11 |
| LjL | but it's just much more infectious | 01:12 |
| dTal | LjL: but Delta already evades vaccines. You can catch it, you can transmit it, you can get sick | 01:12 |
| LjL | it doesn't care about vaccines, it just took over because the original variant stood no chance against it | 01:12 |
| LjL | D614G did the same | 01:12 |
| dTal | I agree that circulation among the vaccinated population creates some very nasty selection pressure to make it worse | 01:12 |
| dTal | well, it selects to make it more contagious and less symptomatic, if such a thing is possible | 01:13 |
| LjL | dTal, if anything your insistence that it's vaccine-evading even though it didn't "mean to" would make me agree with the anti-vaxxers (or de-facto!) here: it was obvious it was going to change enough to evade the vaccine, and by making it circulate among vaccinated people we'll then just make it much worse | 01:13 |
| nixonix | did you guys read that article i used time to find, that mentioned 60% coverage in their model being ideal for new variants emerging? | 01:14 |
| LjL | the thing is that before Alpha, it was *not* obvious that this thing was going to mutate like this | 01:14 |
| LjL | the general understanding was that it mutated very little | 01:14 |
| LjL | Alpha arose in some way that we still don't know, either de-facto or nixonix linked to something about its "clock" showing it acquired more mutations than we expect statistically, and acquired them all at once, so it could have developed inside a single immunocompromised patient or something like that | 01:15 |
| nixonix | kent variant was different from others, it had lots of new mutations at once, was it 17 nonsynonymous (and 23 total), something like that | 01:15 |
| LjL | and it really took scientists aback, let's just say this. they were largely not expecting it | 01:15 |
| nixonix | so it was more likely than other variants to been developed in immunocompromised patient | 01:15 |
| LjL | nixonix, yes but before that there had been *no* variants of significant concern except for D614G which was "at the very beginning" | 01:15 |
| lunatunes | Do you guys have any articles on how to disinfect if someone with the delta variant has been in your home? | 01:16 |
| LjL | *before* Alpha, we had a reasonable belief that vaccines that were very specific to *that* S-protein would work well, because variants were not very likely to arise | 01:16 |
| LjL | after Alpha, that was clearly no longer true | 01:16 |
| LjL | lunatunes, the same way as you would with any other variant, just do it more | 01:16 |
| LjL | it's not like you disinfect Delta differently | 01:16 |
| nixonix | and now they think that every possible combination is already around (i dont thinks possible, but perhaps every variant that has some functional difference) | 01:16 |
| nixonix | *dont think its | 01:17 |
| lunatunes | So open windows as usual and clean while wearing a mask | 01:17 |
| LjL | nixonix, yeah, that seemed like a bold statement | 01:17 |
| nixonix | was it balloux | 01:17 |
| LjL | lunatunes, 70% isopropyl or just go with whatever heavyduty product you have, i guess | 01:17 |
| LjL | nixonix, i don't remember, too much stuff | 01:17 |
| dTal | lunatunes: sounds good. I'd leave the house for a while after opening the windows too, if it was very recent | 01:18 |
| nixonix | try l-theanine | 01:18 |
| dTal | nixonix, for what? | 01:18 |
| nixonix | memory | 01:18 |
| dTal | my preferred anti-covid wipe is dish soap, which is very cheap and disrupts the viral envelope | 01:19 |
| lunatunes | dTal: I would like to right now but there are people here. I hate the fact people are still more afraid of being impolite and telling someone they can't come into the home than of covid. | 01:19 |
| dTal | there are people... in your house... during a pandemic... with the deadly virus | 01:20 |
| dTal | bruh. tell em to get lost | 01:20 |
| LjL | nixonix, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theanine#Effects sounds like a definite "maybe but probably not" | 01:20 |
| lunatunes | I don't know if they have it or not. But where I am a lot of people are not vaccinated dTal and its not my house unfortunately. If it was no one would be coming side thats for sure | 01:21 |
| nixonix | it needs caffeine on side | 01:21 |
| dTal | if you think there's enough virus in the air to worry about opening windows you absolutely should not be in the same room as that | 01:21 |
| dTal | I hope you're able to stay safe lunatunes | 01:22 |
| lunatunes | I'm not in the same room. I'm just cornered in this room lol | 01:22 |
| dTal | do you have an effective respirator? simple masks are not very effective against aerosol buildup in closed spaces | 01:22 |
| LjL | next up: goggles | 01:23 |
| lunatunes | I have kf94 masks | 01:23 |
| dTal | oh I've given up on eye covering, I'm pretty sure it's not worth it unless people are actually coughing in your face | 01:23 |
| lunatunes | I wear glasses anyway lol thick enough to be goggles lol | 01:24 |
| nixonix | https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1423484326751084548 | 01:29 |
| dTal | nixonix, we needed that video in March 2020 not August 2021 | 01:35 |
| nixonix | some people spread it more when speaking, than when singing | 01:36 |
| nixonix | delta sub-lineages, significance unclear https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1424112178798358530 | 01:36 |
| LjL | nixonix, fwiw, i don't believe much that founder effect or other things can influence this globally... iow i think if a variant is dominating, it's because it does its job better than the others | 01:38 |
| de-facto | .title https://virological.org/t/the-molecular-clock-of-variants-of-concern/736 https://virological.org/uploads/short-url/incDy8dDAtTQpMhW6ABPf7xkaKI.pdf | 01:41 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From virological.org: The molecular clock of variants of concern - SARS-CoV-2 Molecular Evolution - Virological | 01:41 |
| de-facto | you mean that one? | 01:41 |
| LjL | thanks de-facto yes, although there was also something published, but i think it was the same thing as the one on virological | 01:45 |
| LjL | and maybe some tweets about it, let me grep for that post in the logs | 01:45 |
| LjL | ah not published, i probably just saw https://virological.org/uploads/short-url/incDy8dDAtTQpMhW6ABPf7xkaKI.pdf which is the pdf version of it, that's all | 01:46 |
| de-facto | i think they are still working on it, but it looks quite interesting | 01:48 |
| de-facto | https://twitter.com/sebduchene | 01:51 |
| LjL | %title https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1423484326751084548 | 01:59 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From twitter.com: Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing): "So now that you know it’s airborne @KirkCousins8, we need to disperse aerosols quickly. Key is ventilation. 🇯🇵 assumed it was airborne from the beginning. Here is how [...] | 01:59 |
| LjL | this may not always work, since i'm using Nitter instances to grab the titles and they sometimes fail... i'm choosing a random instance every time, though, so maybe that'll load balance it or something | 01:59 |
| himesama | am i being asked to comment on a guardian article? claims in a message? or claims made someplace i am not aware of by nixonix? | 02:00 |
| LjL | you're not asked to do anything to my knowledge | 02:01 |
| nixonix | i dont understand, what message? | 02:02 |
| himesama | as for the guardian article and message i found many falsehoods, biases, undefined terms, and old nonsensical ideas that are always trotted out with certain new diseases. would not know where to start. | 02:02 |
| LjL | himesama, i was only pointing out that article to you, and the passages i quoted in particular, for roughly those very reasons | 02:03 |
| LjL | that doesn't mean i was asking you to do anything | 02:03 |
| LjL | you can comment if you want, or you can just cross out Balloux from the list of people you might like, or whatever you feel like | 02:04 |
| himesama | any persuasive comments or articles that would get somebody to wipe down groceries at least a few basic ones? | 02:16 |
| pwr22 | Do we have any news on next generation vaccines yet? I mean like targeting Delta et al. | 02:17 |
| pwr22 | I think the UK is heading for a harsh harsh winter 🥴 | 02:17 |
| LjL | pwr22, well, everyone is working on them, but aside from "First patient has been vaccinated with variant vaccine!" press releases, not really | 02:20 |
| TurboTech | Hey there gang | 02:23 |
| pwr22 | Hey | 02:24 |
| pwr22 | LjL: I'm thinking we won't get them deployed until around a year after the last gen. So early next year | 02:24 |
| pwr22 | UK is currently up to death rates equivalent to mid-October last year | 02:24 |
| pwr22 | The vaccines have attenuated the growth but it's still exponential so I'm pretty concerned right now | 02:25 |
| LjL | pwr22, i agree, though we may still get a third boosters (or at least people over a certain age likely will) before next year, just, with the same stuff as we have now | 02:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 'All the beds are taken up by Covid victims': Hospitals in the South are running out of space or staff → https://is.gd/0PVFRF | 02:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +16664 cases (now 6.3 million), +22 deaths (now 112307) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +1858 cases (now 1.9 million), +4 deaths (now 18015) since 21 hours ago — United Kingdom: +20588 cases (now 6.1 million), +46 deaths (now 130453) since 21 hours ago — Canada: +422 cases (now 1.4 million) since 21 hours ago | 02:38 |
| pwr22 | LjL: yeah not thinking the boosters will do much tbh | 03:07 |
| LjL | pwr22, naah, don't be more pessimist than even me, Pfizer said they boosted antibodies a lot, and as imperfect as these antibodies may be for Delta, they clearly help to some decent extent | 03:08 |
| LjL | also, that thing earlier where they found antibodies wane by 6 times after just 3 months, uh, maybe we need a booster anyway | 03:08 |
| LjL | as in, it may not do much, but it will help not undo what's been done ;( | 03:08 |
| pwr22 | We don't know that those increased anti-bodies make much difference though 😛 | 03:09 |
| LjL | also i don't remember where i saw a little debate over whether Pfizer and others were just being greedy, or we genuinely needed boosters | 03:09 |
| LjL | as usual, people are polarized | 03:09 |
| LjL | but i just want to go "¿por qué no los dos?" | 03:09 |
| LjL | Pfizer *clearly* indicated to its investors that it wants to make money on the boosters, and so did Moderna to an extent | 03:09 |
| pwr22 | I would expect anti-body levels to decrease but if an infection happened then they would go up again due to immune memory | 03:09 |
| LjL | at the same time, we may genuinely need boosters | 03:09 |
| pwr22 | that's just how the system works 🤷 | 03:09 |
| LjL | sometimes when two things are not contradictory, they... are... not... contradictory | 03:10 |
| pwr22 | I don't think boosters are bad per se, I just think they won't make much difference | 03:10 |
| LjL | pwr22, agreed, but 6 times in 3 months sounds like more than i saw previous studies noticing | 03:10 |
| LjL | pwr22, well, Israel has already started, so "we'll get to see soon" | 03:10 |
| LjL | (famous last words i said way too many times when afterwards i kept being like "why is there no study out yet?!") | 03:11 |
| pwr22 | There should be a bunch of memory cells floating around in our lymph nodes ready to become activated when needed | 03:11 |
| pwr22 | Those B cells will go crazy, reproduce like mad and spam anti-bodies | 03:11 |
| LjL | pwr22, yes okay but given these antibodies, uhm, barely work for Delta, maybe what we're stuck with until we have a Delta-specific vaccine is "try to keep antibodies up at all times, or B cells won't react in time" | 03:11 |
| pwr22 | Ah that's just not how immune responses work 🤷 | 03:12 |
| pwr22 | They will work fast but can't hurt either | 03:12 |
| pwr22 | I don't think the boosters will really have any measurable result on outcomes over the usual course as long as they are the same stuff | 03:12 |
| pwr22 | If we cross the vaccine types though it might help | 03:13 |
| LjL | you can say it's not how it works and i don't have a counter to that, but meanwhile Israel is already seeing hints of decreased efficacy after a few months | 03:13 |
| pwr22 | Just give me a cocktail of them all 😛 | 03:13 |
| pwr22 | I just think measuring anti-body titres after a long time is a great measure is all | 03:14 |
| pwr22 | I imagine it might be hard to control the data for the virus just becoming more resistant too | 03:14 |
| LjL | pwr22, fair, but Israel is seeing decreased efficacy in practice, not just the antibodies | 03:15 |
| LjL | (iirc) | 03:15 |
| LjL | but then again Israel has a "special deal" with Pfizer ;P | 03:15 |
| pwr22 | Sure, as said above might matter | 03:15 |
| pwr22 | In any case I think the UK is gonna suck in winter | 03:15 |
| pwr22 | Lol did they agree to pay more money for their later batches lol | 03:15 |
| pwr22 | IIRC Pfizer was strong arming them | 03:15 |
| pwr22 | For reference, people here are talking about how the pandemic is over now | 03:16 |
| pwr22 | Everyone thinks our office will be re-opening soon etc | 03:16 |
| himesama | i am a little confused about what kind of immunity is being created by vaccines. there are b cells which once deployed as specific antibody generators do that, and then i get the sense that antibodies divide into directly blocking cell entry vs. tagging so that eating cells come along. and then there are t cells which are more rarely talked about but surely count? and i've heard innate is can learn too. | 03:17 |
| LjL | [17:29:44] <LjL> nixonix, https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1418670502734876677 https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1418673579793727489 for immunity waning in israel | 03:18 |
| LjL | [00:41:49] <nixonix> waning https://twitter.com/RanIsraeli/status/1423322271503028228 | 03:18 |
| LjL | (thought it would be harder to grep for these) | 03:18 |
| LjL | (also i didn't find them, i was merely reposting them) | 03:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19 variants could be named after constellations once Greek alphabet is used up, WHO official says → https://is.gd/2FX0tZ | 03:19 |
| pwr22 | A contact I have who works at a hospital here in the UK told me their threat level thing is at 4 | 03:21 |
| pwr22 | 5 is overloaded | 03:21 |
| LjL | <pwr22> For reference, people here are talking about how the pandemic is over now ← and imagine America, where the rhetoric is all about this "pandemic of the unvaccinated", implying it *is* over for the vaccinated. at least in the UK/Europe, there is communication ongoing about the fact that Delta does impact the vaccines, and yet, apparently, people who aren't quite up to speed with the news don't know... so again, imagine America :\ | 03:22 |
| LjL | <pwr22> Lol did they agree to pay more money for their later batches lol ← well they failed to pay entirely for some batches, so Pfizer may have had reason to be upset at some point :D but i just meant more like that the rumors are that Israel has secured a steady, if not particularly cheap, supply in exchange for running studies on their population. that may be useful, but may also create a conflict of interest where the results of their studies is whateve | 03:23 |
| LjL | r Pfizer would like best. and lately, Israel has put out a lot of slides and press releases as opposed to actual *papers* with *data* | 03:23 |
| pwr22 | Ah | 03:23 |
| LjL | pwr22, so why is the location not under lockdown? why are the levels not automatically triggering restrictive measures? rhetorical questions - i suspect the answer, in the UK like in Germany and in Italy, is that all this "science theater" is really eventually just politicians deciding when to lock down and when to open up. they'll determine some scientific parameters for when to do it, but then they'll change it when they want the outcome to change. | 03:24 |
| LjL | pwr22, in Italy we have a "10" magic number (10 hospitalizations out of n residents, i don't remember what it is honestly, probably that) that if you exceed, your region goes from white to yellow, meaning some restrictions. how surprised are you that some regions are like at 9.7? | 03:26 |
| LjL | add one more hospitalized... and it would exceed 10. but nope :P | 03:26 |
| pwr22 | LjL: Yeah, Boris has been pretty clear that this is "unavoidable" and going to push through the summer on a wing and a prayer. We dallied on locking down last winter until it was too late and looks like we're going for a hat trick | 03:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Heart surgery waits in England may rise by 40%, warns charity: Even before Covid, waits for heart treatment were far too long, the British Heart Foundation says. → https://is.gd/5qFxpW | 03:29 |
| LjL | pwr22, i thought he might be spot-on with the prediction of a 200 deaths/day peak, but now i don't know anymore, since i thought the UK was going steadily down but then it stopped doing that | 03:30 |
| pwr22 | Lol, I think he said "deaths per week" | 03:30 |
| LjL | Italy is kinda doing the same :\ | 03:30 |
| LjL | oh | 03:30 |
| LjL | wut | 03:30 |
| LjL | that was never realistic ;( | 03:30 |
| pwr22 | He was saying "by freedom day" and that was a while ago now | 03:30 |
| pwr22 | We are well beyond that now | 03:31 |
| pwr22 | Actually I think he said "100 a week" | 03:31 |
| LjL | but also arguably past the peak (depending on what the hell the case count does now) | 03:31 |
| pwr22 | and there was a prediction in here of 200 a week in a few weeks | 03:31 |
| pwr22 | The case count is going back up now | 03:31 |
| pwr22 | Not sure what was going on with the cases dropping before but deaths have continued on the same trajectory | 03:32 |
| LjL | hmm | 03:32 |
| LjL | "Boris Johnson will press ahead with lifting most remaining Covid restrictions on 19 July, despite warnings from the government’s scientific advisers that the “exit wave” could result in more than 200 deaths a day and thousands of hospitalisations." | 03:32 |
| LjL | so maybe it was said, it just wasn't him saying it | 03:32 |
| pwr22 | Ah right | 03:32 |
| LjL | other article: | 03:32 |
| LjL | The peak of the current wave is not expected before mid-August and could lead to between 1,000 and 2,000 hospital admissions per day, according to government scientists. | 03:32 |
| LjL | Central estimates from modellers advising the government also show that Covid deaths are expected to be between 100 and 200 per day at the peak, although there is a large amount of uncertainty. | 03:32 |
| pwr22 | Anyhow, things will likely escalate again substantially as the weather turns too | 03:32 |
| LjL | right now we're at around 100 a day, averaged | 03:33 |
| LjL | i don't know about the weather, i'm still not convinced about the whole seasonality business | 03:33 |
| pwr22 | Hospitals will overflow and outcomes will get worse with that too | 03:33 |
| LjL | sometimes i've been more convinced - maybe it's seasonal | 03:33 |
| LjL | but look at the US right now, it's not doing good, especially in the south (as they say mainly to chastise anti-vax people there), and yet it's August | 03:33 |
| pwr22 | I mean, there is strong seasonal patterning to the UK experience IMO | 03:33 |
| pwr22 | I'm not an expert on US weather patterns 😀 | 03:34 |
| pwr22 | If a new worse variant comes too, that will just be the worst ☹️ | 03:34 |
| LjL | no, don't be such an optimist, a worse one still could come | 03:34 |
| pwr22 | 😛 😀 | 03:35 |
| LjL | but seriously: yes, that's why we need the variant-specific vaccines out, quickly. quicker than they're likely going to happen. | 03:35 |
| LjL | so next best crapshot, mix vaccines | 03:35 |
| LjL | we have some studies on that, they're not great studies, but they're studies, and we're already doing it | 03:35 |
| LjL | let's do it more | 03:35 |
| pwr22 | Yeah, super disappointed in how we just seem to have decided "The vaccine is done so no need to push on the vaccines anymore" | 03:36 |
| LjL | this would have sounded like recklessness a few months ago, but look at this thing | 03:36 |
| pwr22 | I'll take all the mRNAs 😛 | 03:36 |
| LjL | i hope my parents can get an mRNA booster soonish | 03:36 |
| pwr22 | Hopefully! | 03:37 |
| LjL | they're below 80 though and that's probably what the initial cutoff will be | 03:37 |
| LjL | (just my guess, nothing's been announced, but the initial cutoff was 80 when they started vaccinating) | 03:37 |
| pwr22 | Ah | 03:37 |
| LjL | (actually they've announced they'll give a 3rd shot to "vulnerable" people, but i don't know what that will mean aside from specific pathology) | 03:38 |
| LjL | (i feel like i'm speaking quietly as if i'm hunting wabbits) | 03:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 'Ironic' that strip club has more COVID-19 protection than Ontario schools: manager → https://is.gd/1337AY | 03:40 |
| pwr22 | lol | 03:41 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for British Virgin Islands: +32 cases (now 2532), +6 deaths (now 37) since 10 days ago | 04:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 14 Israelis who got 3rd shot later infected with COVID-19 → https://is.gd/wBrZBe | 04:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: France, Italy see mass protests against COVID health pass: France saw its largest protests yet against the country's health pass. In Italy, some anti-vax demonstrators wore the widely condemned gold stars, echoing the badges Nazi Germany forced Jewish people to wear → https://is.gd/btOeqm | 04:33 |
| LjL | pwr22, hey don't be right so soon <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 14 Israelis who got 3rd shot later infected with COVID-19 → https://is.gd/wBrZBe | 04:41 |
| LjL | reddit person: "I also don't get it... vaccines are around for many decades now and they have proven to work and prevent people from dying of diseases, and not from getting them in the first place... I had this discussion with my parents on the weekend as well, to no avail." uh a lot of vaccines do prevent diseases "in the first place" | 04:42 |
| LjL | and anyway, "According to the network, two of those infected after receiving the booster shot have been hospitalized." | 04:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Florida Hospitals Are Filling Up As COVID-19 Cases Hit An All-Time High: Just shy of 24,000 coronavirus cases were reported in Florida on Friday, and its hospitals are feeling the pressure. Almost 44% of ICU beds in the state are occupied by COVID-19 patients. → https://is.gd/g9MPwv | 05:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Grenada: +4 cases (now 168) since 18 days ago | 05:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: How COVID-19 delta variant is impacting younger people - mayo cllinic → https://is.gd/9avssx | 06:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: A 2,000 year-old fast-food joint discovered by archaeologists in Pompeii will reopen to the public this summer. Take a look inside. → https://is.gd/QliiNQ | 06:17 |
| TurboTech | I think we need to have a little context to the numbers filling up hospitals. Back in the first 8 months of Covid people were told to stay away from Hospitals. Only emergent surgeries were being done. When the data in Florida says 44% of beds being filled does not tell the whole story. Hospitals have been going full bore since at least January. The data being spewed is not breaking down those in ICU with Covid and those in ICU | 06:48 |
| TurboTech | d Surgical Intensive care that are not due to Sars CoV-2 infection. | 06:48 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan: +646 cases (now 148619), +16 deaths (now 4556) since a day ago — Rostov, Russia: +480 cases (now 113261), +11 deaths (now 5377) since a day ago — Perm, Russia: +476 cases (now 76832), +35 deaths (now 3451) since a day ago — Samara, Russia: +467 cases (now 80025), +13 deaths (now 2765) since a day ago | 08:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: US judge allows Norwegian Cruise to require vaccine proof for passengers in Florida → https://is.gd/tsbpiG | 08:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid-19: Over a million students skip admissions in US; kindergarten schools see highest plunge → https://is.gd/BA2ahX | 08:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | August 09, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/NooKw5 | 09:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +35499 cases (now 32.0 million), +462 deaths (now 428170) since 23 hours ago | 09:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from Science-Based Medicine: Ivermectin is the new hydroxychloroquine, take 5: The Nobel Prize gambit: Ivermectin continues to be the new hydroxychloroquine, an unproven repurposed drug promoted to treat COVID-19. Now the advocates are pointing to the history of the drug's developers being awarded the Nobel Prize in Medicine, as though that has [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/3Rsg3C | 09:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: ‘This is really scary’: kids struggle with long Covid → https://is.gd/rghfM5 | 09:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: The world is nowhere near the end of the pandemic, says famed epidemiologist Larry Brilliant → https://is.gd/6LOlqh | 09:45 |
| pwr22 | LjL: 🤯 | 10:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Weekly recap about vaccines: NOTE: I tried to link as many "official" links as I could, but I had to link some fishy website because some stuff, such as the CNN video, is nowhere to be seen. I have no interest in these website's agenda, just stick to the facts. → https://is.gd/2e2mfP | 10:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: A WHO expert explains why she believes the rush for Covid-19 boosters is premature: In an interview with @HelenBranswell, a WHO expert argues that discussions about Covid-19 booster shots are getting ahead of the evidence. → https://is.gd/At8UuR | 10:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Japan: +19366 cases (now 1.0 million) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +2225 cases (now 3.8 million) since 23 hours ago | 11:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Covid-19: Uganda’s low inpatient numbers mask high community infection as desperate patients turn to herbs: One month ago, Uganda was badly hit by the covid-19 delta variant that has been sweeping the world. Ministry of Health figures show that 31 635 people had been admitted to Ugandan hospitals with... → https://is.gd/1QtOWS | 11:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from ScienceNews: Schools are reopening. COVID-19 is still here. What does that mean for kids?: Children do get COVID-19, and some become very sick and even die. But the disease’s long-term effects on kids remain uncertain. → https://is.gd/sAd98m | 12:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from BioNTech: BioNTech Announces Second Quarter 2021 Financial Results and Corporate Update: More than one billion doses of BNT162b2 vaccine supplied to more than 100 countries or territories worldwide as of July 21, 2021 Signed agreements for approximately 2.2 billion doses of BNT162b2 in 2021 as of July 21, 2021 In oncology, the first patients [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/U9OpUs | 13:03 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Iran: +40808 cases (now 4.2 million), +588 deaths (now 94603) since a day ago — Guam: +52 cases (now 8725) since 3 days ago | 14:02 |
| AskerX | :( | 14:16 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +2609 cases (now 717486), +22 deaths (now 10115) since a day ago — N. Mariana Is.: +8 cases (now 206) since 3 days ago | 15:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: At-Home Saliva Test Can Spot COVID Variants: While not available for sale, a study shows that the technology works as well as the gold standard PCR tests and could cost as little as $3 per test, which is less than other COVID-19 home tests. → https://is.gd/wDoPHB | 16:03 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +3145 cases (now 727113) since 3 days ago — Serbia: +752 cases (now 726454), +4 deaths (now 7143) since a day ago — Bangladesh: +11463 cases (now 1.4 million), +245 deaths (now 22897) since 23 hours ago | 16:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bosnia and Herz.: +211 cases (now 206317), +3 deaths (now 9694) since 2 days ago | 16:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from In The Pipeline: Electrochemistry, Lots of Electrochemistry: My scientific roots are in synthetic organic chemistry, so I enjoyed this paper very much. It’s from a team of authors at Syngenta, GSK, and Lyon, and it goes into useful detail on a technology that not many chemists will have had much experience with: high-throughput [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/v9Vp3R | 16:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Amazon Lottery Offers Vaccinated Workers Cars, $500,000 Cash → https://is.gd/R5EIMo | 16:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Monday 09 August 2021 Update: submitted by /u/HippolasCage to r/CoronavirusUK → https://is.gd/rdpHaY | 17:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Italian police break up network selling fake COVID ‘green passes’ → https://is.gd/75fuWr | 17:41 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +24202 cases (now 6.1 million) since 15 hours ago | 18:11 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +4200 cases (now 4.4 million), +22 deaths (now 128242) since a day ago | 18:36 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Congratulazioni del Presidente Draghi a Alessandra Buonanno per medaglia Dirac ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/congratulazioni-del-presidente-del-consiglio-draghi-alessandra-buonanno-medaglia-dirac ) | 19:04 | |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Spain: +39638 cases (now 4.6 million), +119 deaths (now 82125) since 3 days ago | 19:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Dallas schools to require masks in defiance of Gov. Abbott’s order → https://is.gd/zjGdnK | 19:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +1 deaths (now 26670) since 17 hours ago | 20:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Coronavirus: BioNTech: Third vaccine dose will be needed, but no need to adapt for Delta variant → https://is.gd/qMp5zP | 20:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: Latest topics: Staff Scientist and Engineers / Scripps Research / San Diego CA or remote: We’re hiring exciting new positions at Scripps Research to discover , share , and analyze biomedical data. Our group builds tools to improve how biologists discover and explore data. For instance, we recently developed outbreak.info , a [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/hPRotB | 20:20 |
| dTal | The top result for "covid" on youtube, courtesy of Sky News, is "COVID-19: Is the economy set to boom as the pandemic wanes?" | 20:40 |
| dTal | as the pandemic *what* | 20:40 |
| dTal | where exactly is the pandemic waning, Sky? | 20:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Burundi: +712 cases (now 8800) since 2 days ago | 20:40 |
| dTal | Not Burundi that's for sure | 20:40 |
| dTal | thank you Brainstorm | 20:41 |
| Brainstorm | You're welcome, my friend. | 20:41 |
| imaginar1 | people in GT (a country with 3% of people being fully vaccinated) are already talking about how everything now is post-pandemic | 20:41 |
| dTal | How have people got themselves into this mindset? | 20:41 |
| imaginar1 | i have no idea, but the more i think about the pandemic the worse i feel | 20:45 |
| imaginar1 | how is everyone who got the janssen vaccine feeling? | 20:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: Delta a Concern on Campus: Back to College Amid COVID Surge: The Biden administration announced several initiatives to promote the safety of in-person college and university this fall as COVID-19 case rates surge across the country. → https://is.gd/WOe4M5 | 20:51 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Ad26.COV2.S elicited neutralizing activity against Delta and other SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/MRJD3W29 ) | 20:54 | |
| LjL | de-facto, <Brainstorm> New from Politico: Coronavirus: BioNTech: Third vaccine dose will be needed, but no need to adapt for Delta variant → https://is.gd/qMp5zP i think BNT are being greedy idiots | 21:02 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Comparison of Neutralizing Antibody Titers Elicited by mRNA and Adenoviral Vector Vaccine against SARS-CoV-2 Variants ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/JQA3N4UP ) | 21:04 | |
| nixonix | anything new and interesting? | 21:12 |
| nixonix | no? nothing happened. maybe thats good | 21:15 |
| LjL | new *and* interesting? what is this, disneyland? | 21:15 |
| nixonix | maybe im mistaken. what is this? | 21:15 |
| LjL | Deltaland | 21:16 |
| nixonix | A Birmingham University study shows that the AZ jab, based on traditional immunisation science, triggers the T cells, which fight infection, more than its America counterparts produced by Pfizer and Moderna | 21:16 |
| LjL | does it *show* it? because it's something i've heard a lot as a "possible" "theoretical" advantage of AZ, don't know why | 21:16 |
| nixonix | In April, a Birmingham University study found that the AstraZeneca jab appeared elicit a stronger T-cell response than either Pfizer or Moderna | 21:16 |
| LjL | but studies on antibodies are much more abundant than studies on T-cells | 21:16 |
| LjL | %s birmingham university astrazeneca t-cell | 21:17 |
| nixonix | from couple of articles. the original interview was for dm, but telegraph had more on that study | 21:17 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, 157500.0 hits: https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/latest/2021/04/covid-antibody-response-vaccine-older-people.aspx (Over-80s show similar antibody responses following single ...) [... want %more?] | 21:17 |
| LjL | %more | 21:17 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, [...] https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/research/immunology-immunotherapy/news/2021/03/new-study-finds-strong-immune-response-following-covid-19-vaccination.aspx (New study finds strong immune response following COVID-19 ...) — https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/373/bmj.n979.full.pdf (Covid-19: Single dose of Pfizer or AstraZeneca ... - The BMJ) [...] → https://paste.ee/p/R3xEk | 21:17 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, [...] tool to access and explore up-to-date information on some of the most critical data on the COVID-19 pandemic, including cases, research, and SARS-CoV-2 variants such as Delta. Our Variant reports allow researchers and the public to track the emergence and proliferation of Variants of Concern to gain insights into disease mechanisms, risk factors, [...] → https://paste.ee/p/pyHo1 | 21:17 |
| LjL | can't find the actual study :( | 21:18 |
| nixonix | maybe they have more information so that its not just hopeful thinking (i dont remember that study right away), but even killer t-cell reactivity doesnt necessarily mean better protection (compared to differences in ab titers) | 21:18 |
| LjL | it's supposed to be a lancet preprint according to https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/latest/2021/04/covid-antibody-response-vaccine-older-people.aspx | 21:19 |
| nixonix | sars2 apparently has mhc-I based immune evasion due to orf8. i wrote about it over year ago, in a preprint then, but it has got more support later | 21:19 |
| LjL | also another "It found people who had previously been infected with COVID-19 showed higher T cell and antibody responses after one dose of the Pfizer vaccine compared with people who had never had COVID-19 before and had one dose of the vaccine." | 21:19 |
| nixonix | mhc-I is for killer t-cells, mhc-II for helpers | 21:19 |
| LjL | this matches with the... thing we read yesterday, what was it? the one about antibodies waning, i think they waned less in people who'd had COVID | 21:20 |
| LjL | or something | 21:20 |
| LjL | nixonix, but anyway do you know *why* AZ (and maybe other adenovirus vaccines) are supposed to elicit more T-cell response than mRNA? | 21:20 |
| LjL | after all it's the same stupid protein | 21:20 |
| nixonix | not sure how it was with circulating titers, but ab maturing is long term for actual infection, unlike from mrna vaccines | 21:21 |
| nixonix | and titers are higher when infection + vacc | 21:21 |
| LjL | A small number of people (eight) had signs of | 21:21 |
| LjL | previous natural covid-19 infection. Compared with | 21:21 |
| LjL | those without previous infection, their antibody and | 21:21 |
| LjL | T cell responses after the first vaccine dose were | 21:21 |
| LjL | significantly higher (691-fold and fourfold, | 21:21 |
| LjL | respectively). The study also found stronger T cell | 21:21 |
| LjL | responses in people who had received the | 21:21 |
| LjL | AstraZeneca vaccine, with 31% of this group | 21:21 |
| nixonix | its that april birminham study apparently | 21:21 |
| LjL | producing detectable T cell responses compared with | 21:21 |
| LjL | 12% of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine group. | 21:21 |
| LjL | whoops | 21:21 |
| LjL | this is not the Lancet but maybe it's the paper https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3825573 | 21:22 |
| LjL | it certainly looks like it | 21:23 |
| LjL | (also it is the lancet after all) | 21:23 |
| nixonix | 691-fold just with infection or infection + vacc? | 21:24 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Single Vaccination with BNT162b2 or ChAdOx1 in Older People Induces Equivalent Antibody Generation but Enhanced Cellular Responses after ChAdOx1 ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/V4HPNSXM ) | 21:24 | |
| LjL | inf+vax | 21:24 |
| nixonix | nice. but i think ill try to avoid the infection anyway | 21:25 |
| nixonix | but t-cell reactivity could be bad too | 21:26 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-24938-4 | 21:26 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nature.com: SARS-CoV-2 specific T cell responses are lower in children and increase with age and time after infection | Nature Communications | 21:26 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nature.com: SARS-CoV-2 specific T cell responses are lower in children and increase with age and time after infection | Nature Communications | 21:26 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +49 deaths (now 112342) since 23 hours ago | 21:30 |
| nixonix | copypaste doesnt work. it was 691 for older, much less for younger | 21:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: STAT+: After leaving patients in limbo, Pfizer agrees to sell a discontinued glaucoma drug: After months of controversy, Pfizer has reached a deal to sell the rights to a recently discontinued drug used by patients with a rare form of glaucoma. → https://is.gd/zYcVM8 | 21:33 |
| nixonix | only ifn-gamma secretion used in assay for t-cells, not what type of t-cells was analyzed. exp spike-specific | 21:34 |
| nixonix | maybe az have more information. you guys believe their boasting? | 21:37 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9866531/AstraZeneca-vaccine-longer-immunity-suggests-boss-UK-drugs-giant.html | 21:38 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.dailymail.co.uk: AstraZeneca vaccine 'may give longer immunity', suggests boss of UK drugs giant | Daily Mail Online | 21:38 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/02/coronavirus-t-cell-immunity-lasts-least-six-months-even-antibodies/ | 21:38 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.telegraph.co.uk: Coronavirus T-cell immunity lasts at least six months even when antibodies are undetectable | 21:38 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: SARS-CoV-2 specific T cell responses are lower in children and increase with age and time after infection ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/G99F6V5N ) | 21:39 | |
| nixonix | .title https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/no-need-yet-to-adapt-pfizer-vaccine-for-covid-variants-biontech-chief-2506512 | 21:40 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.ndtv.com: No Need Yet To Adapt Pfizer Vaccine For Covid Variants: BioNTech Chief | 21:40 |
| LjL | imaginary, this thing from the AZ CEO looks about as depressing, or worse, than the BioNTech thing... they don't even plan to give a third shot? i mean, okay, there may be better T-cell response, but Delta is clearly impacting AZ people too | 21:41 |
| nixonix | their 3rd shot would suck, as its with the same vector | 21:42 |
| nixonix | so az is currently trying to talk that our great vacc doesnt need it | 21:42 |
| LjL | sucking could be good, de-facto explicitly asked for aspiration :P | 21:42 |
| nixonix | and why pfizer doesnt want to release updated version - not sure, maybe but maybe some problems like it isnt much better than 3rd with original, or they worry about OAS or something | 21:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID Zotero group: SARS-CoV-2 specific T cell responses are lower in children and increase with age and time after infection: Type Journal Article Author Carolyn A. Cohen Author Athena P. Y. Li Author Asmaa Hachim Author David S. C. Hui Author Mike Y. W. Kwan Author Owen T. Y. Tsang Author Susan S. Chiu Author Wai Hung Chan Author Yat Sun Yau [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/nokFAr | 21:44 |
| nixonix | also when they switch the production, maybe it cant happen to every plant at the same time, and anyways there are already produced doses, who gets updated versions, individuals complaining, countries demanding the new version etc | 21:45 |
| nixonix | maybe they think its not worth all that hassle | 21:45 |
| nixonix | in every... | 21:45 |
| LjL | nixonix, either Pfizer or Moderna "found" that a standard third dose gives about the same protection (or antibody levels in vitro? i really don't remember the details) as a Delta or Beta-specific dose | 21:47 |
| nixonix | they have just one team that visits the plants, obv knowing company secrets they dont want too many to know. and all this patent talk | 21:47 |
| LjL | it's one of those things that when i saw it i thought "meh, such nonsense" and didn't save it anywhere, so i don't know what exactly it said | 21:48 |
| LjL | i don't know if it's nonsense either, i'm just biased by assuming they want to do what costs them less but makes them more money | 21:48 |
| nixonix | the problem is protection waning anyway. it might offer some improvement for it but maybe not enough, better ab maturation would still be needed (or alternatively t-cell response or perhaps N-protein, whatever the solution for lasting protection is, but im betting maturation right now) | 21:50 |
| LjL | protection waning is a problem, but protection just not fully being there for Delta is also a problem | 21:51 |
| nixonix | i wonder what kind of next gen vaccines both pfizer/bnt and moderna are planning | 21:51 |
| nixonix | its about market, now if some newcomer have suddenly 98% for symptomatic infection (while its over double better, comparing those who get symptoms), it wont make large players to replace all their ordered vaccines | 21:53 |
| nixonix | but if the competitors has solution that offers years of good protection, everybody will want it | 21:53 |
| nixonix | have | 21:53 |
| nixonix | it may be that 1.1.7 was better evasing innate immune response than 617.2, due to its N-protein mutations, downregulating IFN-beta | 22:08 |
| nixonix | unless 617.2 has something similar that just isnt identified yet - which could explain some of its high viral loads. but i couldnt find when searching | 22:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: News Scan for Aug 09, 2021: Guinea confirms first Marburg virus case Fourth US melioidosis case Respiratory activities and COVID-19 aerosols → https://is.gd/lvcFYn | 22:15 |
| nixonix | they were thinking those mutations might have arisen from homologuous recombination of transcription regulating sequence instead of appearing step-by-step, which might explain why 1.1.7 suddenly had such a huge number of mutations | 22:18 |
| nixonix | which isnt the case with 617.2 though | 22:18 |
| nixonix | R_0 for marburg was something like 0.33 i think | 22:21 |
| nixonix | interesting new vaccine coming from india, not name yet, Biological E company partnering some americans for adjuvant that is tlr9 agonist unmethylated CpG, which looks like part of DNA i think (with alum) | 22:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Antigua and Barb.: +19 cases (now 1348) since 18 hours ago | 22:32 |
| nixonix | recombinant novavax style vaccine apperenty. i dont have article with good description, i just saw it mentioned shortly and made some googling | 22:32 |
| nixonix | and who knows if it would allow b-cells to mature long for lasting protection | 22:33 |
| nixonix | i thought there was so much mortality in usa because of overweight and stuff, but apparently i was wrong: | 22:36 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.jpost.com/international/olympics-40-percent-of-americans-think-they-are-fit-enough-to-compete-study-676169 | 22:36 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.jpost.com: Olympics: 40% of Americans think they are fit enough to compete - study - The Jerusalem Post | 22:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Closing the vaccination gap will take new methods, study finds: Oregon could make further inroads in vaccinating residents against COVID-19 if officials shift their method for reaching those who remain hesitant to get the shots, a new UO study finds. → https://is.gd/eiz5ht | 22:36 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.jpost.com/health-science/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-linked-to-rare-cases-of-eye-inflammation-study-675839 | 22:37 |
| nixonix | .title | 22:38 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From is.gd: Closing the vaccination gap will take new methods, study finds | 22:38 |
| nixonix | no, not that. about eye | 22:38 |
| nixonix | jpost had an article on yet another silver bullet for cytokine storm, EXO-CD24. i googled about it to find its MOA, and while not finding a good description, i found some interesting sceptism and this site: | 22:55 |
| nixonix | .title https://forbetterscience.com/2021/02/08/operation-cytokine-storm/ | 22:55 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From forbetterscience.com: Operation Cytokine Storm – For Better Science | 22:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: Depression and anxiety doubled in children, study says: Lianna Matt McLernon | News Writer | CIDRAP News Aug 09, 2021 Data suggest that, during the pandemic, at least 20% have had depression or anxiety. → https://is.gd/fizwMF | 22:58 |
| nixonix | .title https://forbetterscience.com/2021/07/21/frontiers-in-homicidal-quackery/ on frontiersin (which has lots of good but also bad stuff), ivermectin, bolsonaro etc | 23:02 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From forbetterscience.com: Frontiers in Homicidal Quackery – For Better Science | 23:02 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.jpost.com/health-science/could-the-flu-vaccine-help-ward-off-serious-covid-19-new-study-676257 | 23:07 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.jpost.com: Could the flu vaccine help ward off serious COVID-19? - new study - The Jerusalem Post | 23:07 |
| nixonix | Half of those who are vaccinated are immune so we have achieved herd immunity among them. In order to develop herd immunity here in the community, more people need to be immune to the virus and it’s not possible to do that in any way other than vaccinating with this third dose, revaccinating those who are the most vulnerable.” | 23:12 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.icelandreview.com/society/icelands-chief-epidemiologist-curbing-infections-remains-the-goal/ | 23:12 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.icelandreview.com: Iceland’s Chief Epidemiologist: Curbing Infections Remains the Goal | 23:12 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.euronews.com/2021/07/08/fake-covid-vaccine-certificates-sold-on-dark-web-for-150 | 23:16 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.euronews.com: Fake COVID vaccine certificates sold on dark web for €150 | Euronews | 23:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: Southern states see record-setting COVID-19 activity: Stephanie Soucheray | News Reporter | CIDRAP News Aug 09, 2021 Doctors are pushing for authorized vaccinations for children and adolescents ahead of the school year. → https://is.gd/65ZPwQ | 23:19 |
| nixonix | .title https://fortune.com/2021/08/07/fake-covid-vaccine-passports-black-market/ | 23:22 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From fortune.com: Inside the black market for counterfeit COVID vaccine passports | Fortune | 23:22 |
| LjL | old | 23:24 |
| nixonix | was already here? | 23:25 |
| nixonix | there should be some way to identify if you are actually vaccinated or not. idk, tattoo, a microchip perhaps? | 23:26 |
| dTal | I humbly suggest "666" | 23:31 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7161499/ | 23:34 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: N95 Respirator Cleaning and Reuse Methods Proposed by the Inventor of the N95 Mask Material | 23:34 |
| nixonix | "Use 3–4 masks, numbered on the outside as 1–4, for each day. They can be used each day in numerical order. All SARS-CoV-2 viruses on the mask will be dead in 3 days (2)" - the current variant too? | 23:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Central African Rep.: +4023 cases (now 11174) since 11 days ago | 23:34 |
| nixonix | with a lot more virions, maybe needing more time | 23:35 |
| TurboTech | Hi Gang | 23:38 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/ces-jeunes-francais-qui-veulent-attraper-le-covid-pour-eviter-la-vaccination-20210728 | 23:39 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.lefigaro.fr: Ces jeunes Français qui veulent attraper le Covid pour éviter la vaccination | 23:39 |
| LjL | that's quite sad :\ | 23:40 |
| nixonix | Jennifer, 24 ans, ne cherche pas non plus à l'attraper absolument mais «préférerait l'avoir et me mettre en quarantaine et que mon système immunitaire sache comment vaincre la maladie naturellement» | 23:40 |
| LjL | but does it sache, or does it non sache pas | 23:41 |
| LjL | she'll find out i guess | 23:41 |
| nixonix | crazy world. youll have the vaccination to avoid getting infection without (additional) protection, so getting infected to get the protection doesnt make sense | 23:42 |
| TurboTech | How is everyone doing? | 23:45 |
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