| lastshell | to much flip flop news in covid times | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| lastshell | some said that you don't need a booster other that you need it | 00:01 |
| lastshell | who the hells know the true ? | 00:02 |
| LjL | lastshell, https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1433907516245569542 | 00:09 |
| lastshell | yeah LjL honestly now I don't blame the people who is taking ivermectin | 00:14 |
| Xenguy | But what good is a parasite drug against a virus? Is there any real basis for any alleged effectiveness? | 00:15 |
| lastshell | a lot of anecdotal data | 00:16 |
| LjL | Xenguy, there are studies, mostly weak, mostly conflicting, some found fraudolent | 00:17 |
| LjL | i don't know whether i blame those people, but i can't help shaking my head when i see people actually buying things like horse-grade ivermectin and then being scared of the vaccine | 00:17 |
| lastshell | I have an awesome video of alex jones taking ivermectin | 00:18 |
| lastshell | he is even crazy | 00:18 |
| lastshell | that I was thinking he was | 00:18 |
| lastshell | https://youtu.be/53_-UgHIynA | 00:19 |
| Xenguy | LjL, Yeah no kidding, it's Darwin Prize material | 00:19 |
| Xenguy | AJ went off the rails a long time ago, and was perhaps even fraudulent from the beginning | 00:20 |
| Xenguy | The only thing a carny is looking for is rubes, lots of rubes | 00:21 |
| LjL | hey at least it's FOR HUMANS | 00:24 |
| LjL | no but seriously i didn't finish watching that | 00:24 |
| LjL | i've lost enough brain cells for other reasons already | 00:24 |
| dTal | what the f | 00:27 |
| dTal | I knew Alex Jones was Not Okay but I had no idea it was... that.. | 00:27 |
| Xenguy | It's just my opinion, YMMV | 00:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: R to @EricTopol: The Delta wave deaths in these 14 countriesThe US, and its lowest vaccination rate, stands out.@OuwWorldinData → https://is.gd/HgCUCa | 01:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: R to @EricTopol: For the best summary of the benefits of hybrid immunity, including not just the 25-100 fold antibody response (cf vaccine or natural immunity), but also their breadth of neutralizing capacity, @profshanecrotty has it @ScienceMagazine https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.abj2258 → https://is.gd/gNO6nC | 01:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Brazil health regulator suspends use of 12 mln Sinovac vaccine shots → https://is.gd/P4GDQO | 03:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: With No Tourist Handouts Because Of COVID, Bali’s Hungry Monkeys Raiding Homes → https://is.gd/LtPcCj | 03:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Kabul airport reopens to receive aid, domestic flights restart → https://is.gd/eHfT2E | 04:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Lower Manhattan rebounded after 9/11, but the pandemic erased the gains → https://is.gd/vo6NYA | 05:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 801: We can hear the coffin: The meteorologicomaniacs discuss the COVID-19 pandemic global death toll, effectiveness of vaccines against the delta variant, and how analysis of ancient viral DNA reveals that two pathogenic human viruses were brought into Mexico during the transatlantic slave trade. → https://is.gd/kvejBb | 06:15 |
| finely[m] | <lastshell> "I have an awesome video of..." <- Or was it just saline? Why would a grifter endanger themselves? The successful ones are arseholes, but they are not stupid. | 07:04 |
| finely[m] | <lastshell> "some said that you don't need..." <- With different varients (and possibly waning immunity) we definitely do. The question is when and which vaccine. And if it is better to vaccinate the rest of the world before given the rich a third shot | 07:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: By the end of the year, wealthy nations will have 1.2 billion vaccine doses they don’t need → https://is.gd/XxhKJj | 08:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: [UNVERIFIED] Twitter User :"A friend asked why they haven't seen much international news about the COVID outbreak in Vietnam. Honestly I don't know exactly why, but here's what I know. Please spread the word. The world needs to know this." → https://is.gd/a4SEQm | 08:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | September 05, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/DHP9qG | 09:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Weight gain in pandemic increased type 2 diabetes risk: UK study → https://is.gd/nhPH9q | 09:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Australia to use facial recognition app to enforce quarantine in South Australia → https://is.gd/zKt40a | 10:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: COVID site, nurses in Georgia threatened, :harassed, Toomey says: A vaccination site in Georgia also had to be shut down due to threats. → https://is.gd/UZUL2J | 10:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: COVID hospitalisation rate for children soars in US → https://is.gd/o7uCLv | 10:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Poland to donate 400,000 doses of AstraZeneca vaccine to Taiwan → https://is.gd/WfuKzQ | 11:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Un Vaccino talmente efficace che in Israele(uno dei paesi più vaccinati al Mondo) hanno raggiunto il più alto numero di casi da Inizio Pandemia in questi giorni. → https://is.gd/mXPzbF | 13:39 |
| pwr22 | Lol @ alex jones | 14:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: UK minister: No decision yet on COVID-19 vaccines for healthy children → https://is.gd/ikCpLA | 14:22 |
| dTal | I don't believe Alex Jones really took anything | 14:23 |
| dTal | he was awful quick with his hands | 14:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from Derek Lowe: @Dereklowe: Striking graph. As others have said, the X axis might be shifted by “snowbirds” who got vaccinated and left for the summer. But how many could that be? The Y axis might reflect FL’s high elderly population. But the snowbirds are older, too - not enough data! → https://is.gd/0cylj9 | 16:20 |
| Xenguy | Brainstorm, Are you a bot? | 16:25 |
| Xenguy | In any case, I suggest using 'v.gd' instead of 'is.gd', as it automatically gives a preview screen, showing where the shortened link will go. Appending a '-' character to any 'is.gd' URL achieves the same effect, e.g.: https://is.gd/0cylj9- | 16:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_ITALIA: La libertà muore sotto scroscianti applausi. → https://is.gd/G2aNLR | 16:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Health Canada warns people not to treat COVID with horse dewormer as demand surges in feed stores → https://is.gd/c6oGp1 | 16:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Sunday 05 September 2021 Update: submitted by /u/HippolasCage to r/CoronavirusUK → https://is.gd/Mm19tK | 17:46 |
| xrogaan | Xenguy: Brainstorm is a bot maintained by LjL | 17:49 |
| xrogaan | Xenguy: can give you stats | 17:49 |
| xrogaan | %cases USA | 17:49 |
| Brainstorm | xrogaan: United States has had 40.1 million confirmed cases (12.2% of all people) and 654371 deaths (1.6% of cases) as of a day ago. 588.4 million tests were done (6.8% positive). 205.9 million were vaccinated (62.5%). +167256 cases, +2471 deaths since 23 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20States | 17:49 |
| Brainstorm | xrogaan: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about United States, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 17:49 |
| lexus | folks | 17:53 |
| lexus | just shut up and take the vaccine | 17:53 |
| lexus | i had my second pfizer jab last week | 17:54 |
| lexus | i'm feeling better than ever | 17:54 |
| lexus | kind of became a chick magnet too | 17:54 |
| Xenguy | xrogaan, Thanks kindly | 17:55 |
| lexus | mRNA is a game changer | 17:56 |
| Raf[m] | > kind of became a chick magnet too | 18:01 |
| Raf[m] | What? Your "I got vaccinated sticker"? | 18:01 |
| lexus | nope | 18:02 |
| lexus | it's my sudden charm and the aura i radiate | 18:02 |
| lexus | i'm not into girls tho | 18:03 |
| lexus | the idea of fornication with a female grosses me out | 18:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid-19: Vaccine passports to start in England this month → https://is.gd/dBoqoG | 18:18 |
| xrogaan | Raf[m]: meant that a lot of poultry are following them about. | 18:21 |
| xrogaan | Won't go hungry anytime soon. | 18:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Sri Lanka: Covid, economic crisis cause food shortages → https://is.gd/MAIe9q | 18:39 |
| nixonix | .title https://nltimes.nl/2021/08/31/netherlands-covid-19-vaccination-rate-stalling | 19:08 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From nltimes.nl: Netherlands' Covid-19 vaccination rate stalling | NL Times | 19:08 |
| nixonix | bulgaria, romania, serbia - i think in this order, vaccinations nearly stopped awhile ago. in many other eastern european countries the 1st dose numbers are increasing, but just slower rate than in the west. maybe its just slower pace of living there | 19:13 |
| nixonix | which western countries have approved 12+ yo vaccinations, and which are not? i couldnt find a good list | 19:13 |
| nixonix | maybe its in nl, that it got hit so bad, that those not vaccinated think they have immunity from infection, and are not too worried since its easy times currently, compared to the past | 19:15 |
| nixonix | https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-people-vaccinated-covid?time=2020-12-02..latest&country=FRA~DEU~GBR~USA~AUT~BEL~CAN~CHL~DNK~FIN~SWE~NOR~European+Union~IRL~ITA~LVA~LTU~MYS~NLD~NZL~ESP~CHE~URY~PRT~BGR~ROU~SRB~CHN~AUS | 19:19 |
| nixonix | australia tried to buy mrna vaccines from usa. they didnt sell. they made couple of swaps lately, 500k with singapore and 4M with uk, getting them now and paying back in december. and bought a few million doses from poland and some other european country i think | 19:27 |
| nixonix | .title https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/woman-in-new-zealand-dies-due-to-myocarditis-after-receiving-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine--c-3822236 | 19:31 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From 7news.com.au: Woman in New Zealand dies due to myocarditis after receiving Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine | 7NEWS | 19:31 |
| nixonix | the first one ive seen. and since theres no myocarditis from mrna vaccines in that age group and sex, above the background, its unlikely due the vaccine. not impossible, but | 19:32 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/SquawkCNBC/status/1433766725984608295 gottlieb sees this the last wave again. this time not saying we can take it to the bank like in april, though | 19:39 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Squawk Box (@SquawkCNBC): ""We're going to go back to normal after this delta wave. Hopefully this is the last real wave of infection we're going to experience. But it's going to be a new normal [...] | 19:39 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1433938210384715778 | 19:42 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing): "NEW—Apparently Texas is not reporting the age of #COVID19 patients for 97% of total confirmed cases. Every other state does. Kinda embarrassing @GovAbbott [...] | 19:42 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/wkdragon88/status/1431991927147278342 | 19:43 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: William Ku, Ph.D. (@wkdragon88): "This is consistent with our analysis of CDC data for the USA. The other way of interpreting this though is that breakthrough #Delta hospitalizations are not rare - [...] | 19:43 |
| de-facto | .title https://imgur.com/a/5tx3R80 https://i.imgur.com/szFi4PV.jpeg src: https://impfdashboard.de/static/data/germany_vaccinations_timeseries_v2.tsv | 19:45 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From imgur.com: COVID Germany: People vaccinated 1st dose - Album on Imgur | 19:45 |
| de-facto | asymptotic saturation value for logistic fit is 65.12% yet it seems in the very recent days the demand for 1st doses is increasing beyond that logistic fit (as seen by green 100*residual>>0 and yellow percent per day rate) | 19:46 |
| de-facto | either those are the kids or people begin to prepare for 4th wave | 19:46 |
| de-facto | well or both | 19:48 |
| nixonix | breakthrough in minnesota. the last report from the page 49 on. compared to the previous report, the breakthrough deaths from july were lower, so apparently they removed some (like not really a breakthrough, or more likely cause of death moved to something else). so the death figures are not reliable, at least the last one | 19:49 |
| nixonix | hospitalizations should be one to compare. its high, but not increased during the last couple months for some reason https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0,9753,7-406-98163_98173_105123---,00.html | 19:50 |
| nixonix | schools starting, just mentioning of vax passports, case increases, all affects and some more people go get a jab | 19:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): China_Flu: Coronavirus Mu variant discovered in the US → https://is.gd/yqFCJU | 19:54 |
| nixonix | in france and italy passports affected well. in austria its stalling, so obv no passport plans in bars etc | 19:54 |
| nixonix | if you play it down in media, like it looks very good now, so soon we can remove the restrictions, people think its good now, and dont bother. really terrible hc politics | 19:56 |
| nixonix | according to irene tossetti, pfizers early results for 5-11 yo should come any day. and israel prob starts vaxing 5+ right after that | 19:58 |
| nixonix | *michigan, not minnesota | 19:59 |
| -Bridgestorm- 🌅 Earthquake! 6.0 Mb tremor, registered by 4 agencies, occurred 11 minutes ago (17:51:44 UTC), during twilight, Tonga Islands Region (-22.16, -174.36) ± 31 km, ↓16 km likely felt 260 km away (in Nukuʻalofa…) by 36000 people (www.seismicportal.eu) | 20:03 | |
| de-facto | .title https://jasn.asnjournals.org/content/early/2021/08/25/ASN.2021060734 | 20:10 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From jasn.asnjournals.org: Kidney Outcomes in Long COVID | American Society of Nephrology | 20:10 |
| de-facto | " Beyond the acute illness, 30-day survivors of COVID-19 exhibited a higher risk of AKI (aHR=1.94 (95%CI: 1.86,2.04)), eGFR decline ≥30% (1.25 (1.14,1.37)), eGFR decline ≥40% (1.44 (1.37,1.51)), eGFR decline ≥50% (1.62 (1.51,1.74)), ESKD (2.96 (2.49-3.51)), and MAKE (1.66 (1.58,1.74))." | 20:11 |
| de-facto | "There was a graded increase in risks of post-acute kidney outcomes according to the severity of the acute infection (whether patients were non-hospitalized, hospitalized, or admitted to intensive care). " | 20:11 |
| de-facto | " Compared to non-infected controls, 30-day COVID-19 survivors exhibited excess eGFR decline of -3.26 (-3.58, -2.94), -5.20 (-6.24, -4.16), and -7.69 (-8.27, -7.12) mL/min/1.73m2/year in non-hospitalized, hospitalized, and those admitted to intensive care during the acute phase of COVID-19 infection." | 20:12 |
| de-facto | "Conclusions: COVID-19 survivors exhibited increased risk of kidney outcomes in the post-acute phase of the disease. Post-acute COVID-19 care should involve attention to kidney disease." | 20:12 |
| nixonix | does the damage continue after the infection, and for how long? | 20:14 |
| de-facto | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/01/health/covid-kidney-damage.html | 20:14 |
| de-facto | "Between one and six months after becoming infected, Covid survivors were about 35 percent more likely than non-Covid patients to have kidney damage or substantial declines in kidney function, said Dr. Ziyad Al-Aly, chief of the research and development service at the V.A. St. Louis Health Care System and senior author of the study." | 20:15 |
| nixonix | if you find something about any organ damages that keep happening post-infection, link me | 20:15 |
| nixonix | because its possible, even after mildish symptoms, that something keeps causing more damage after the virus is cleared and acute symptoms gone away. which could it be, there are a few alternatives imo: | 20:17 |
| de-facto | worth 30 years of kidney function | 20:17 |
| de-facto | that sounds very bad | 20:17 |
| nixonix | 1) reduced ace2 affecting RAAS homeostasis 2) autoantibodies 3) t-cell infiltration | 20:18 |
| nixonix | according to that study on telomere damages, they found reduced ace2 for many or all post covid. autoantibodies, prob not that common, perhaps. t-cell infiltration - that one might be behind the most damage in acute phase, instead of cellular damage of infected cells | 20:20 |
| nixonix | also immunecompromised seem to cope fine with the virus for months. meaning infected cells dont perhaps get destroyed much. which could ofc result from reduced killer t-cells not destroying them, but apparently exocytosis is usually the exit sars2 virions use, instead of cell ripping and dieing | 20:24 |
| nixonix | and if cells really produce hundreds of thousands virions, i dont think they all fit in cell until it rips, and still new synthesis and assembly would keep happening | 20:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Surgical masks work very well in preventing spread of COVID-19, biggest ever study finds → https://is.gd/NDPEfu | 20:25 |
| nixonix | *dying | 20:26 |
| nixonix | superantigen in furin site, or sars2 affecting regulatory t-cells (which almost never get mentioned, so i havent looked at them much at all). maybe both | 20:29 |
| nixonix | which studies have found breakthrough hospitalizations increased? in israel prob, but their data is so messy... | 20:30 |
| nixonix | was it found in quatar? | 20:30 |
| nixonix | if IgG reduces too low to prevent infections efficiently after 4 months (pfizer with 3 weeks), how long after that severe cases start to increase? | 20:32 |
| nixonix | and why? what protects from severe, after circulating IgG has gone too low to prevent infections. the old answer was killer t-cells. but if they do more harm than good... they may still stop the infection while making damage perhaps | 20:33 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1434520561661583376 | 20:38 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): "Why don’t we have the data for ~100,000 US hospitalized patients for vaccination status, timing, vaccine, demographics? Few know @HHSgov has the legal authority to mandate [...] | 20:38 |
| nixonix | interesting discussion in that thread | 20:41 |
| LjL | https://www.salon.com/2021/09/05/bangladesh-mask-study-interventions-covid-19/?fr=operanews i find it "hilarious" how different people/media are using the exact same study from Bangladesh to claim everything from "masks are wonderful" to "masks don't do anything" and even "masks are harmful" | 20:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: UK plans to mandate ‘vaccine passport’ for nightclubs, large gatherings | World News → https://is.gd/UFuLVF | 20:48 |
| nixonix | maybe they should have waited until the 1st doses start to stall (maybe they do already in some agegroups, while the total rising because 16-17 yo can now vax, and soon 12+) | 21:01 |
| nixonix | but wait, what happened to learning to live with the virus plan in uk? | 21:01 |
| LjL | it's now everyone's plan? | 21:02 |
| nixonix | in denmark, their owid stringency score went down quite a bit a few days ago, and they plan to remove the rest restrictions 10th sep. lets see what happens, we have similar plans "when we hit 80% of eligible" or "even sooner", said the same hc official, that our media loves, who said couple months ago "its almost like in north korea" | 21:03 |
| nixonix | they need to burn it through the kids, before everyone is vaccinating 5+ yo. they just hate healthy children... | 21:04 |
| de-facto | https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1434154841446572044 | 21:05 |
| de-facto | .title https://time.com/6092446/pediatric-covid-19-surge/ | 21:06 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From time.com: Pediatric COVID-19 Cases and Hospitalizations Are Surging | Time | 21:06 |
| nixonix | one of their argument is, RSV is worse for kids | 21:09 |
| nixonix | 1) its not accepted, its just that we cant do anything. theres no RSV vaccine yet (pfizer has viral vector vax and moderna mrna vax in making) | 21:10 |
| nixonix | historical reasons, bad vaccine in the 60s, so everybody avoided that since | 21:10 |
| LjL | de-facto, nixonix: speaking of children, did you see this account https://twitter.com/NahasNewman that Balloux retweeted yesterday? it's basically all trying to say it's not true it's a problem for children, and that measures like masks (at least for children) do more harm than good. i am utterly tired to try to figure out what's the truth about it all | 21:10 |
| nixonix | 2) we dont know about the permanent damage for kids. and may not know for decades the whole scope of it | 21:11 |
| nixonix | 3) we dont accept current traffic deaths either, the kill rate for children is about the same here i think (no adolescent sars2 deaths yet, but its luck and only about 6% infected, less among kids). traffic is necessary, most unvaccinated deaths (and other damages) are not | 21:12 |
| nixonix | yeah i looked at the account. if balloux likes tweeters with that type of agenda, he seems to seek for support for his preconceptions, instead of updating views always when some new good evidence appears. typical for humans, needs effort to avoid that | 21:15 |
| nixonix | just a few more months, and we could avoid the most damage to 5+ yo. crazy to lyödä läskiksi before that, after all this shit. under 5 yo, prob impossible. exp if new evidence of the damage occures soon, and it gets us to keep the cases down even longer, and accelerate younger kids vax trials | 21:20 |
| nixonix | %tr <fi lyödä läskiksi | 21:22 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix, Finnish to English: beat as a fat (MyMemory, Google) | 21:22 |
| nixonix | no, come on! | 21:22 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.02.21263014v1?rss=1 | 21:24 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: No difference in risk of hospitalisation between reported cases of the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant and Alpha variant in Norway | medRxiv | 21:25 |
| nixonix | so we have several studies that found hosp rate 2x or more vs alpha, and one that didnt find any difference. i update my current view as a bit under 2x | 21:25 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.26.21262426v1?rss=1 binding ab tests are not comparable, meaning they neither correspond well to neutralization (or maybe some manufacturers assays do, and some dont) | 21:37 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: The comparability of Anti-Spike SARS-CoV-2 antibody tests is time-dependent: a prospective observational study | medRxiv | 21:37 |
| eazyy | %cases Europe | 21:42 |
| Brainstorm | eazyy: Sorry, Europe not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 21:42 |
| eazyy | %cases england | 21:42 |
| Brainstorm | eazyy: England, United Kingdom has had 5.9 million confirmed cases (10.6% of all people) and 116709 deaths (2.0% of cases) as of 2 days ago. +28370 cases, +144 deaths since 23 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=England | 21:42 |
| Brainstorm | eazyy: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about England, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 21:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Lateral flow confusion: Does anyone know why positive lateral flow tests are invalid if they appear after 30 minutes? What in the science is going in there? → https://is.gd/7EiVJP | 21:50 |
| nixonix | it seems theres a mixed use of the words boost, booster, pre-boost, post-boost etc currently. booster can mean 2nd or 3rd dose... | 21:54 |
| twomoon | technically the second dose of a two-dose vaccine is a booster | 21:57 |
| twomoon | if it boosts immunity then it's a booster | 21:57 |
| nixonix | "A limitation of this study is that the neutralizing antibodies were not measured; however, several groups have reported a strong correlation between SARS-CoV-2 binding and neutralizing antibodies" - depends on assay | 21:58 |
| nixonix | .title https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2783797 can you guys dl this? it asks signing up for me, despite the same script allowed as with another article, that jama lets me download | 22:06 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From jamanetwork.com: Comparison of SARS-CoV-2 Antibody Response Following Vaccination With BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 | Vaccination | JAMA | JAMA Network | 22:06 |
| nixonix | if you can, its prob that some of jama links need another script, while others dont | 22:06 |
| nixonix | it sucks anyway and doesnt prove anything, because they used roche assay that seems to have especially bad correlation with neut abs. but test the download anyway so i can save it for reference when finding out the reason | 22:12 |
| nixonix | another similar, that topol recently tweeted about, also about binding antibodies. and in that they dont even mention the assay used, or i couldnt find it | 22:13 |
| nixonix | both showed modernas binding ab titers higher than pfizers (and moderna also has 4 weeks interval vs 3) | 22:13 |
| nixonix | those high profile tweeters are not very careful about the limitations of the studies they tweet about. unless somebody points out | 22:15 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.26.21262426v1 | 22:16 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: The comparability of Anti-Spike SARS-CoV-2 antibody tests is time-dependent: a prospective observational study | medRxiv | 22:16 |
| nixonix | topol just tweeted about that norwegian study. what's his nick here? | 22:18 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/AndreasShrugged/status/1434415539867340803 apparently drosten said these in the thread. no. those only upper respiratory symptoms dont get usually lasting immunity, if immunity at all. yeah, if you get hospitalized, then you are likely to get it... | 22:35 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Andreas Backhaus (@AndreasShrugged): "8) "...is a common cold situation – but then we’re also in a situation where the `booster shot’ doesn’t happen here [via injection] but via recurring contacts [...] | 22:35 |
| nixonix | so its not proven that vaccinated that get breakthrough infection, would get more lasting or better immunity (compared to 3rd shot). mucosal IgA wanes fast anyway, so it would need to be something else. severe systemic infection. i dont want that | 22:37 |
| nixonix | what are germanys plans for 3rd shot? they are probably listening to drosten there... | 22:38 |
| de-facto | in my federal state they began to offer 3rd shots for over 80y olds | 22:39 |
| nixonix | its still open, what could the mechanism for the lasting immunity be. killer t-cells was the old assumption. maybe they still are responsible, while possibly causing damage, perhaps they also provide lasting immunity | 22:40 |
| nixonix | or is it about memory b cell maturation. even partly bone marrow plasma cells (which dont maturate i think) | 22:41 |
| de-facto | https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.gmkonline.de/Beschluesse.html?uid%3D219%26jahr%3D2021 | 22:41 |
| nixonix | t-cells evasion through orf8 may be affected by genetics, so that for some its efficient, and for some it isnt. and t-cell infiltration too | 22:43 |
| nixonix | do they have twin studies? | 22:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Brazil v Argentina suspended after health officials intervene over isolation order → https://is.gd/GjcOjY | 22:44 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nbc12.com/2021/08/28/vcu-launches-study-impact-covid-19-using-twins-multiples/ | 22:45 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nbc12.com: VCU launches study on impact of COVID-19 using twins, multiples | 22:45 |
| nixonix | they do knockout mouse studies. but mice lie | 22:46 |
| * dTal squeaks shiftily | 22:47 | |
| nixonix | if you are vaccinated, then get a breakthrough infection, its even more likely to be mild or asymptomatic, and stay in upper airways. but then i have a very strong hybrid immunity anyway? really? | 22:52 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/scandinorway/status/1434613359996018692 norway | 23:05 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Per Braathen (@scandinorway): "We have to see the progress after a blossom of infected by the younger generation now. Schools back running 18/8 Students and partygoers with mostly reckless behavior. [...] | 23:05 |
| nixonix | maybe the last weeks big decrease is because of partial week used, because in offloop norway is still rocketing. when looking at unsmoothed curve, saturday and sunday have always a lot smaller numbers, so its still rising | 23:09 |
| nixonix | so is austria, sweden, baltian and balkan countries | 23:12 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/WambierMD/status/1434621163947315200 | 23:13 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Dr Wambier (@WambierMD): "We still don’t know Delta in the Winter. Useless to explore summer peaks and compare with winter peaks. Winter is coming with the truth." | El Pajarito de NoGAFAM | 23:13 |
| LjL | The Truth | 23:14 |
| LjL | as if seasonality weren't just one of the many possible, not even certain, variables | 23:14 |
| nixonix | you can take the winter to the bank | 23:14 |
| ook | huh? | 23:15 |
| ook | you can take the winter to the bank? | 23:16 |
| nixonix | google that idiom (sure thing) | 23:16 |
| ook | oh ok | 23:16 |
| nixonix | but im very happy to be wrong | 23:18 |
| ook | i'll take your word for it | 23:19 |
| pwr22 | Winter is gonna be worse than summer IMO | 23:23 |
| pwr22 | Beyond the "We reach some sort of convenient herd immunity and the virus just decides to stop evolving" scenario I've never seen any logical reasoning why it wouldn't be | 23:24 |
| nixonix | maybe it doesnt matter that much with delta, since if there are virions in air, theres prob enough anyways, despite humidity, temp, condition of mucosa etc | 23:24 |
| nixonix | some virologists think, it cant evolve enough, so that the vaccines (current) wouldnt have it cornered | 23:25 |
| twomoon | I'm still not sure if vaccines are putting appreciable evolutionary pressure on the virus | 23:27 |
| pwr22 | <nixonix> "but wait, what happened to..." <- Haven't you heard? We just say whatever is convenient and then pretend we didn't when it turns out to have been a stupid idea | 23:27 |
| LjL | they already don't have it "cornered" | 23:28 |
| nixonix | but when it looks like vs SA variant neut ab titers from pfizer (3 week interval) diminish below 150 in about 70 days (around 4 months with delta), that mean that at least mostly mild breakthroghs would be common in no time if that variant was around. its rare currently though | 23:28 |
| pwr22 | twomoon: The scale it's deployed at, they must | 23:28 |
| LjL | is that how you do it on Airstrip One | 23:29 |
| nixonix | i just try to give various expert opinions, whether my armchair expert opinion agrees them or not | 23:29 |
| pwr22 | > Zahawi told Sky News that this was the “right thing to do” to ensure the economy remains open. | 23:31 |
| pwr22 | Interesting, because it won't | 23:31 |
| pwr22 | 23:31 | |
| nixonix | places to watch for breakthroughs, those that got high 2nd dose coverage first. after israel, UAE and then chile. no sequence data from UAE | 23:31 |
| fedorafan | yo i love that the first 2 weeks after vaccination people are counted as unvaccinated | 23:31 |
| pwr22 | Plus if the economy had been told "We are going to have a rough 4 years, things have changed and you need to change with them" rather than "We will get rid of covid in 3 months" repeatedly then maybe the economy wouldn't need to be so closed during the pandemic | 23:32 |
| fedorafan | and there are differences in doing the tests | 23:32 |
| fedorafan | hahahaha | 23:32 |
| fedorafan | good luck | 23:32 |
| fedorafan | ciao ciao | 23:32 |
| pwr22 | What was that? | 23:32 |
| LjL | nothing of consequence | 23:32 |
| twomoon | ljl?? | 23:32 |
| twomoon | he seems benign | 23:33 |
| pwr22 | ^_^ | 23:33 |
| LjL | you say that based on? | 23:33 |
| pwr22 | Yeah that LjL is well dodgy 😛 | 23:33 |
| LjL | i banned him based on the fact he was already banned before, and he knew that, and that's why he left immediately | 23:33 |
| twomoon | based on absolutely no historical evidence | 23:33 |
| pwr22 | Ah I think there are IRC things going on that I can't see | 23:33 |
| nixonix | was it a "pcr tests show RSV as rona" type troll? | 23:34 |
| twomoon | ljl sometimes people turn over a new leaf | 23:34 |
| LjL | well this one clearly didn't | 23:34 |
| pwr22 | Who would think "not counting as vaccinated for 2 weeks" is a bad thing | 23:34 |
| pwr22 | It's clearly in line with the science | 23:34 |
| nixonix | sometimes there are funny trolls, that should be given a chance to be funny imo | 23:34 |
| LjL | a moron | 23:34 |
| nixonix | i know | 23:34 |
| ook | hey when is the next enlightenment scheduled for | 23:34 |
| pwr22 | The vaccine doesn't magically work instantly | 23:34 |
| ook | we need a new enlightenment | 23:34 |
| LjL | i sent him an invite | 23:35 |
| LjL | enjoy | 23:35 |
| nixonix | k, thanks | 23:35 |
| ook | LjL: why does fedorafan ring a bell? | 23:35 |
| LjL | ook, because he's been a long-time troll in several channels | 23:35 |
| LjL | but there's no historical evidence and he may be funny | 23:35 |
| LjL | so belay that bell | 23:35 |
| ook | ok | 23:36 |
| twomoon | I'm just starving for more anti-vaccine voices | 23:36 |
| ook | LjL: would you like a long blether about long covid in the style of conversational lit review? | 23:36 |
| twomoon | I'm too steeped in pro-vaccine voices now | 23:36 |
| LjL | ook, i think i'm already the right amount of depressed, but it might be generally welcome | 23:37 |
| ook | k: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/long-covid-much-more-than-you-wanted | 23:37 |
| ook | actually idk that this blether shakes out as depressing | 23:38 |
| twomoon | damn, America is gonna have a lot of disability cases in the coming years due to long covid | 23:39 |
| twomoon | I don't understand why Neurological and Sensory are separate categories | 23:40 |
| pwr22-testing | Am I still here? | 23:42 |
| LjL | pwr22-testing, you just started being here | 23:43 |
| LjL | i invited fedorafan though, not you. who are you? | 23:43 |
| pwr22 | I'm me | 23:43 |
| LjL | yes, but who's he? | 23:43 |
| pwr22 | me | 23:43 |
| pwr22-testing | I'm him | 23:43 |
| LjL | seems sketchy | 23:44 |
| pwr22 | I agree | 23:44 |
| pwr22 | So bans on matrix still just kick them from the matrix room but leave them in IRC sigh | 23:44 |
| pwr22 | That really doesn't make much sense | 23:44 |
| LjL | eh | 23:44 |
| pwr22 | Guess I'd better file two issues on the bridge, not one | 23:44 |
| LjL | i don't see this one being solved | 23:44 |
| pwr22-testing | On the matrix side I am banned and gone from the rom | 23:45 |
| pwr22-testing | *room | 23:45 |
| pwr22 | But in IRC pwr22-testing is still around | 23:45 |
| LjL | i get it, i'm just not sure how you'd accomplish what you want through the bridge in a clean way | 23:45 |
| LjL | did this change anything? i forget | 23:45 |
| LjL | try kicking him again | 23:46 |
| pwr22 | I'll have to unban him first, hang on | 23:46 |
| pwr22 | Lol I unbanned him and he got kicked from IRC | 23:46 |
| LjL | oh, i was about to say that worked | 23:47 |
| LjL | let's say that *has potential* to work then | 23:47 |
| pwr22 | Ok I've rejoined | 23:47 |
| pwr22 | Let me try it now | 23:47 |
| pwr22 | Will ban from matrix | 23:47 |
| LjL | only problem is people don't normally stay opped on fre- i mean Libera, and opping yourself up through the bridge is a PITA | 23:47 |
| pwr22 | Ok so that worked | 23:48 |
| pwr22 | So it only kicks them if I am op'd | 23:48 |
| LjL | yes | 23:48 |
| pwr22 | I just realised there is no bridge bot on the IRC side | 23:48 |
| LjL | indeed, there isn't :P | 23:48 |
| pwr22 | So it makes sense, unless there was one and it was op'd then it couldn't do it? | 23:48 |
| LjL | pwr22, to be fair, i'm not even comfortable with there being a bridge bot on the Matrix side, or at least, not with its having the same privilege level as i have ;( although i learned recently if i knew magical spells in advance, i *could have* created a room where i'm higher than 100, then the bridge would be lower than me | 23:49 |
| pwr22 | That's how it change map IRC mods and such into matrix | 23:50 |
| pwr22 | Because you need to be admin in the room to do that | 23:50 |
| pwr22 | That said, it's possible to tweak the powerlevels and stuff so you don't get an IRC bot that's higher than you | 23:50 |
| pwr22 | Or the same level | 23:50 |
| pwr22 | Ah I just read the rest of the message | 23:50 |
| pwr22 | LjL: It's still possible if you made a new room and tombstone this one into it | 23:51 |
| pwr22 | So now I'm not an op, what happens on the IRC side I wonder if I rejoin | 23:51 |
| pwr22-testing | I am here again? LjL can you see me? | 23:52 |
| LjL | pwr22, on the IRC side it was only a kick, with no ban. how to ban would be non-obvious to the bridge | 23:52 |
| twomoon | damn, a lot of ear-ringing symptoms observed | 23:52 |
| twomoon | i have noticed that before too after "common cold" infections as a kid | 23:52 |
| LjL | pwr22, but also basically yeah, i think Matrix would benefit from a "founder"-like level where you're *above* whoever can make others mods, and it appears to exist technically, but it's just not exposed, and 100 is the default | 23:53 |
| pwr22 | Yeah | 23:53 |
| nixonix | irene tossetti just asked dave fisman to that topol's thread on norwegian delta vs alpha study 🍿 | 23:59 |
| LjL | she what on what the what | 23:59 |
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