| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Just published @NEJMReassuring data on vaccination preventing transmission from over 144,000 health care workers and their >194,000 household contacts https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2106757?query=featured_home → https://is.gd/ojhkEB | 00:16 |
|---|---|---|
| twomoon | uh oh i better hit the gym a lot before the Mu variant soaks in | 00:24 |
| twomoon | the Mu variant appears very evasive | 00:24 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1435722838284013570 and not too long after the 2nd dose | 00:24 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): "A new US study of vaccine effectiveness (VE) pre-Delta for age ≥50: VE 89% vs hospitalization for mRNA vaccines; 68% for J&J vaxx. [...] | 00:24 |
| nixonix | well, no 2nd jnj | 00:25 |
| twomoon | why do we care about pre-delta studies? | 00:27 |
| `St0ner | alpha seems mostly extinct now | 00:31 |
| `St0ner | pre-delta information is almost useless | 00:31 |
| twomoon | we're already at Mu. and Mu will dominate because it's way more vax evasive than Delta | 00:34 |
| twomoon | Alpha is already on display at vaccine museums the world over. And probably also in cryo freezers in bio weapons labs | 00:35 |
| twomoon | the point is, it's ancient history already | 00:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Lancet (Online): [Comment] CD3xCD20 bispecific T-cell redirectors for relapsed or refractory B-cell lymphoma: The treatment options for patients with relapsed or refractory B-cell non-Hodgkin lymphoma who do not respond to traditional treatment are rapidly evolving. In addition to chimeric antigen receptor T-cell (CAR-T) therapy, [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/nAxqUl | 00:37 |
| de-facto | what is R(Mu) compared to R(Delta) in a) a immunologic naive cohort and b) in a Wuhan-Hu-1 immunized cohort and c) in a Delta-immunized cohort? | 00:37 |
| twomoon | what is "R()" ? | 00:38 |
| twomoon | the transmissibility factor? | 00:38 |
| de-facto | reproduction number | 00:38 |
| de-facto | how many cases are inherited to the next generation in an average infection chain | 00:39 |
| de-facto | how many cases N are produced by M carriers of the previous generation existing approximately one serial time ago: R = N/M | 00:40 |
| nixonix | lower in a. b and c depends how much circulating antibodies people still have from their vaccinations or previous infections | 00:49 |
| nixonix | then if it starts to spread, and people continue vaccinations, 3rd doses etc, those ratios will change again. it's a circle! | 00:50 |
| nixonix | and the protection from infections and vaccines keep reducing. maybe on would disappear, or then they both existed in population for longer time. while we would go back and forth with restrictions | 00:52 |
| nixonix | *keeps and *one | 00:52 |
| nixonix | you could do a game of life for variants fighting | 00:53 |
| nixonix | my current guess is, mu wont spread widely in europe. perhaps in some country or area. unless it gains more transmissibility among non-immunized or very weakly immunized | 00:54 |
| nixonix | but i was wrong about delta in april. so maybe im wrong again | 00:54 |
| nixonix | the main reason, immunity wanes too fast, and we wont get 3rd doses fast. so not much protection vs delta after a few months | 00:58 |
| nixonix | and it will be seasonal, until we get better or more frequent vaccines. but those seasons are not limited to time of year, but are more frequent. waves up, waves down, then up again, and it keeps going | 01:01 |
| nixonix | the end | 01:02 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1435694962641879042 | 01:06 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Deepti Gurdasani (@dgurdasani1): "Huge study looking at long term kidney function in 1.7 million US veterans, of whom ~90,000 had COVID-19. Among those who survived 30 days post-covid, kidney [...] | 01:06 |
| LjL | ugh, i just heard on TV that the booster shot is planned to happen in December (not sure i heard that one right) for >80, then in January-February for healthcare operators... meaning everyone else even later | 01:08 |
| LjL | that's far longer than vaccines work reliably :( | 01:08 |
| nixonix | our hc officials are planning it for hcw and those that got it in january with 3 weeks interval (old and some hcw). others, its something like "the protection for severe looks to be lasting, but possibly sometimes in the future it could be needed" | 01:15 |
| Raf[m] | that's just in your country right? | 01:15 |
| nixonix | and immunocompromised. yeah, in finland | 01:15 |
| Raf[m] | does natural immunity last longer than vaccines? | 01:16 |
| nixonix | while some countries have given 3rds off-label for immunocompromised since april, if not sooner | 01:16 |
| nixonix | it seems if you get hospitalized, it does. if not, for infection mrna vax beats it. for hospitalization, not known yet | 01:17 |
| nixonix | hospitalized infection > mrna vax > mild or moderate systemic infection > non-systemic aka in upper respiratory. that is protection for infection | 01:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pro-China social media campaign hits new countries, blames U.S. for COVID → https://is.gd/LARWyQ | 01:19 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/R_H_Ebright/status/1435053514577760256 i dont know no more. ebright is a biosecurity expert, who is 50-50 on lab leak or not (sars-cov-2) | 01:23 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Richard H. Ebright (@R_H_Ebright): "The materials further reveal that the the grants also supported the construction--in Wuhan--of novel chimeric MERS-related coronaviruses that combined spike genes [...] | 01:23 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/erlichya/status/1435213288791592961 | 01:29 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Yaniv Erlich (@erlichya): "Recall that Alpha (3rd wave) is not closer to Delta (4th wave) than the ancestral strain (2nd wave). So it is reasonable to assume that diff are due to waning immunity. This [...] | 01:29 |
| nixonix | interesting map, if true. but that 15% of protection lost per month. doesnt look like that watching neut abs and that qatar paper. could it fit to protection vs severe? | 01:31 |
| nixonix | but i dont think it does, since protection for severe comes from different components, that have different trajectories. relations of those components are not known, varies among people with different genetics, age etc | 01:32 |
| nixonix | being different parts of innate immunity, circulating abs from short and long-lived plasma cells, GC b-cells, cd8, even bone marrow plasma cells, etc | 01:33 |
| nixonix | those that didnt read yet, read this and have a look on the study too. turning off different parts of immunity on mice, and seeing how it affects the protection | 01:37 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/VirusesImmunity/status/1433570048715763714 | 01:37 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Prof. Akiko Iwasaki (@VirusesImmunity): "Excited to share our work by @BenIsraelow et al published today. We asked what are the roles of antibodies vs. T cells in controlling primary infection, [...] | 01:37 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/1435020716341084163 | 01:40 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): "Updated fits on GISAID lineage freqs for Colombia & Ecuador. Delta taking over with Mu (B.1.621) having growth rate disadvantage rel to Delta in both countries of 6% [...] | 01:40 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-01/painless-silent-organ-damage-seen-in-large-long-hauler-study?sref=Yg3sQEZ2&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_content=business&utm_medium=social | 01:42 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.bloomberg.com: Bloomberg - Are you a robot? | 01:42 |
| nixonix | * kidney damage in long rona | 01:42 |
| Cashlin | ouch | 01:42 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/keith_giles/status/1435244243757453313 | 01:45 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Keith Giles (@keith_giles): "Nice use of “wave” 🦠 @ChristosArgyrop @ZiikZiiii @james1chas3" | El Pajarito de NoGAFAM | 01:45 |
| OrTh0DoX | Is there any reason why Graphene Oixide are detected in Pfizer and Moderna Vaccines? | 01:47 |
| dTal | hoo boy | 01:47 |
| dTal | OrTh0DoX, I do not believe that that is a thing | 01:50 |
| OrTh0DoX | Do not believe or don't want to believe? | 01:50 |
| lastshell | source of that claim ^ ? | 01:50 |
| OrTh0DoX | https://www.drrobertyoung.com/post/transmission-electron-microscopy-reveals-graphene-oxide-in-cov-19-vaccines | 01:52 |
| OrTh0DoX | PLEASE...IS NOT FAKE NEWS!!! | 01:53 |
| dTal | OrTh0DoX, as far as I can tell that is a misspelling of some Instagram nonsense that bears no relationship with any sort of reality | 01:53 |
| dTal | do you know what graphene oxide is? | 01:54 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1435225994298896391 | 01:54 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Anthony J Leonardi, PhD, MS (@fitterhappierAJ): "I saw this and gained a lot of respect for @michaelmina_lab because of the very interesting discovery. I always thought cov2 paralyzed and deleted cd8s [...] | 01:54 |
| nixonix | which one has graphene oxide? | 01:55 |
| dTal | None of them | 01:55 |
| LjL | OrTh0DoX, it's not even news. provide actual news from a scientific source | 01:55 |
| LjL | or shut up | 01:55 |
| nixonix | im asking orthodox | 01:55 |
| LjL | i am in no mood for nonsense | 01:55 |
| dTal | that website is... something | 01:55 |
| dTal | "Germs Are Born In Us and From Us as an Outfection and NOT an Infection of the Body Cells. In other words germs are symptoms of cellular and genetic disorganization and NOT the specific cause of the cellular and genetic disorganization! The GERM is NOTHING and the TERRAIN is EVERYTHING . Germs can only contribute to a state of toxic imbalance but NEVER cause ANY specific sickness or disease![55] - Dr. Robert O. Young" | 01:55 |
| dTal | I am fairly sure, after reading that, that nothing else on that page can possibly be of any medical value | 01:56 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/michaelmina_lab/status/1435039476510859272 sorry, wrong link on measles above. this one | 01:56 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Michael Mina (@michaelmina_lab): "We hypothesized then that measles was destroying B cells and plasma cells responsible for retaining immune memory. This is bc the measles virus specifically attacks [...] | 01:56 |
| LjL | OrTh0DoX, since this is the second time i warn you about this kind of thing... please answer nixonix and explain where, when, how graphene oxide has been found, with any decent sources. i won't be okay with you just shutting up once you see other people point out that you're posting rubbish | 02:05 |
| LjL | if you prefer not to answer, then just stop posting also | 02:05 |
| dTal | LjL is being nice and following protocol but honestly I vote for summary kickban | 02:06 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41423-020-0424-9 leonardi thinks the conclusions were still valid for destroying t-cells. ill try to find second opinions some day, and return to the subject | 02:06 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nature.com: RETRACTED ARTICLE: SARS-CoV-2 infects T lymphocytes through its spike protein-mediated membrane fusion | Cellular & Molecular Immunology | 02:06 |
| dTal | 20 months of pandemic IRC and the one thing I have never seen is a covidiot suddenly start making rational sense | 02:07 |
| nixonix | i vote for letting him be, or letting him in sometimes, if he answers questions | 02:07 |
| ublx | *deafening silence intensifies* | 02:08 |
| dTal | I mean, they did link to it | 02:08 |
| dTal | I'm pretty sure that was a primary source | 02:08 |
| LjL | primitive* | 02:09 |
| LjL | i vote for whatever y'all end up deciding | 02:09 |
| LjL | maybe a nice discussion about when to kickban can be a welcome topic change from, ugh, covid | 02:09 |
| nixonix | my question wasnt that good, though. i didnt notice he already said it was in moderna and pfizer | 02:09 |
| dTal | the evidence for graphene oxide appears to be a blurry shapeless black blob as seen under a microscope by someone who doesn't think germs are real | 02:10 |
| LjL | %s graphene oxide mrna vaccines | 02:10 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, 101500.0 hits: https://health-desk.org/articles/how-do-we-know-graphene-oxide-isn-t-used-in-covid-19-mrna-vaccines (How do we know graphene oxide isn't used in COVID-19 ...) — https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-graphene-lipidvaccines-idUSL1N2PI2XH (Fact Check-No evidence graphene oxide is present ... - Reuters) [... want %more?] | 02:10 |
| nixonix | .title https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-430816913228 with less funny way, but ok | 02:10 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From apnews.com: Pfizer vaccine does not contain graphene oxide | 02:10 |
| LjL | google putting those sketchy "fact checks" on top of the results, as usual! | 02:10 |
| dTal | I mean they all agree that it's BS | 02:11 |
| dTal | but to be honest I would rather they didn't even give it air | 02:12 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/brenontheroad/status/1429624844379824129 this was the claim (debunked in the thread) that rogan believed, and repeated in media | 02:12 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Bren (@brenontheroad): "Tokyo's Medical Assoc. Chairman holds live press conference recommending #ivermectin to all doctors, for all Covid patients. Japan's government is one of the most conservative [...] | 02:12 |
| dTal | it's such a wild thing to hand wring about anyway, graphene oxide is literally what you get if you blot pencil lead with sticky tape and leave it out | 02:13 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9969571/Joe-Rogan-rails-critics-slammed-taking-anti-parasite-drug-Ivermectin-treat-COVID-19.html nice debunk lower in the article | 02:14 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.dailymail.co.uk: Joe Rogan rails critics who slammed him for taking anti-parasite drug Ivermectin to treat COVID-19 | Daily Mail Online | 02:14 |
| nixonix | "Dr. Timothy Geary, one of the world's foremost experts of Ivermectin, says the drug does not have any effectiveness fighting viruses. Geary, who is the Research Chair in Parasite Biotechnology at McGill University in Montreal | 02:14 |
| ublx | that seems a tad overconfident | 02:15 |
| nixonix | theres more in the article | 02:16 |
| nixonix | if theres no known mechanism, no evidence it works, its probably a duck | 02:16 |
| ublx | my current sense is that if you sweep away all the media circus around IVM, the current scope for knowledge is 'nothing conclusive is known' | 02:16 |
| LjL | dTal, are you saying my eating pencils in school wasn't quite a great idea? | 02:17 |
| dTal | LjL: no that's the thing, it was totally harmless | 02:17 |
| LjL | ublx, i have a tweeeeeeeet thread about that, it's not a big thing, but i have it, wait | 02:17 |
| nixonix | i heard you get cancer from the yellow or something. prob true | 02:18 |
| dTal | the covid shot could be made of 100% graphene oxide - just a shot of a fine powder, injected somehow - and it would be unlikely to do any damage | 02:18 |
| dTal | maybe some physical damage | 02:18 |
| LjL | ublx, https://nitter.eu/GidMK/status/1412635807702142982 not using real twitter, so that maybe you can load without js | 02:18 |
| dTal | but sufficient quantity to cause any sort of toxicity literally would not fit in the needle | 02:18 |
| dTal | it's just carbon | 02:19 |
| LjL | nixonix, the yellow? | 02:19 |
| nixonix | in pencils | 02:19 |
| nixonix | we had yellow pencils | 02:19 |
| dTal | also the vaccine is "an off white suspension", you're not gonna get much graphene in that without darkening it | 02:19 |
| ublx | LjL: i'll probably just wait for Team Cochrane to update this: https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD015017.pub2/full | 02:20 |
| LjL | dTal, to be fair, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite_oxide#Toxicity doesn't sound great, although it doesn't say "IT'S PURE POISON" either (while keeping in mind the vaccines don't really have this anyway, so) | 02:21 |
| LjL | nixonix, so the wood? | 02:21 |
| LjL | oh the yellow paint? | 02:21 |
| LjL | hmm | 02:21 |
| LjL | dTal, yeah, now that you say that i remember that mentioned as a pretty obvious objection to it containing graphene oxide | 02:22 |
| LjL | should pin it to my "how to debunk things in obvious way" board, which is honestly... empty | 02:22 |
| dTal | LjL: toxicity theshold in mice is around 0.4mg, that scales up to 2g for human weight | 02:23 |
| nixonix | paint. "the failure of these cross-reactive memory CD4+ and CD8+ to expand in vitro suggests they have limited potential to function as part of a protective immune response against SARS-CoV-2" | 02:23 |
| dTal | meanwhile the active quantity before dilution of the pfizer vaccine is 0.3ml | 02:24 |
| nixonix | those from hcov i think. we discussed on those cross-reactive t-cell findings, in singapore (animal virus sources perhaps), swedish findings etc. i thought, reactivity doesnt mean protection. swedes thought it does | 02:24 |
| dTal | it's simply not a toxic enough chemical for "dey're puttin it in our vaxxines" to even be threatening | 02:24 |
| dTal | it's so off base you don't know where to start | 02:26 |
| dTal | next it'll be sodium chloride and dihydrogen monoxide they're panicking about | 02:26 |
| LjL | heh | 02:28 |
| LjL | well i don't understand (bio)chemistry really. that section on wikipedia makes it sound like it may have deleterious effects that are subtler than the "you're going to hospital" obvious toxicity | 02:28 |
| dTal | I especially like the photo of what is clearly a hair, next to what are purportedly red blood cells, labeled "a Nanotube of Graphene Oxide " | 02:29 |
| LjL | i could understand that IF this substance really were in vaccines, and people just read that wikipedia section, they'd freak out a bit. i'd probably freak out a bit. | 02:29 |
| nixonix | they are grasping any straws they find. hey, lets invent some new straws for them | 02:29 |
| LjL | i haven't clicked on anything, i've only looked it up on wikipedia | 02:29 |
| dTal | pop quiz, what are the relative sizes of carbon nanotubes and red blood cells | 02:29 |
| LjL | absolutely no idea | 02:30 |
| dTal | I'll give you a hint, they aren't called "nano" tubes for nothing | 02:30 |
| dTal | they're like, a few atoms across | 02:30 |
| nixonix | over 1000 prob, werent red blood cells pretty big | 02:31 |
| ublx | lol | 02:31 |
| LjL | OrTh0DoX, i'm quieting you because this hit-and-run method seems recurrent and intentional. let me know if otherwise. | 02:31 |
| nixonix | single cells can produce hundreds of thousands sars2 virions. but it seems the main exit way is exocytosis, so they dont need to fit in until the cell rips (which may happen only sometimes, some think), where they would prob restrict the synthesis anyway | 02:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Will Boris Johnson’s plan for the NHS work?: The prime minister believes new funds will tackle the Covid backlog - but refuses to set targets. → https://is.gd/6UuNKz | 02:34 |
| nixonix | so the cellular damage from being a virion vactory wouldnt be a major factor for damage, but immune response. what type, theres debate, like ROS affecting RAAS, t-cell and neutrophil infiltration etc | 02:35 |
| nixonix | factory. vuck | 02:35 |
| LjL | lol | 02:36 |
| LjL | nixonix, not a major factor for damage, but also a great way for the virus to make copies much more efficiently than if it destroyed cells like other viruses do, maybe | 02:37 |
| nixonix | yeah, i think it depends on virus, i read something like that once. but since i dont know much about other viruses, dont count on that | 02:39 |
| nixonix | if sars2 gained a region that binds tightly to cd150, could it invade b-cells efficiently and destroy them like measles. prob not likely to happen, since ive not seen something like mentioned | 02:41 |
| nixonix | it has that slower cathepsin L way, but no idea if b-cells have it | 02:43 |
| LjL | yesterday i read a bit about the history of smallpox | 02:44 |
| LjL | and kind of wished i hadn't | 02:45 |
| LjL | because it wasn't an epidemic that "went away eventually" or "became milder" or any of that really. we just got a vaccine, and it worked. even after that, tons of people still died from it, until the big WHO campaign | 02:45 |
| LjL | aboriginals (america, australia) would die from it at even higher rates, and, it said, at similar rates also from chickenpox, which *was* much milder to europeans, that one | 02:46 |
| LjL | even when/where it was "endemic", with whatever balance you can have with something like that, about 1 in 10 children died from it | 02:46 |
| LjL | but it also says general mortality is 1 in 3 | 02:46 |
| nixonix | leonardi claimed herpes used to be lethal, and it took a millenia to evolve mostly non-lethal | 02:47 |
| LjL | there *is* an asterisk to the "didn't get milder" part in that there is a Variola minor (as opposed to Variola major) virus that was milder and eveeeentually came to predominate | 02:47 |
| LjL | but it took 3000 years | 02:47 |
| LjL | nixonix, that's interesting, and scary | 02:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: “Appalled” by rich countries hogging vaccines, WHO extends booster moratorium. No more promises, we just want vaccines for low-income countries, WHO director says. → https://is.gd/MvkAwQ | 03:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ Open: Impact on Mental, Physical and Cognitive functioning of a Critical care sTay during the COVID-19 pandemic (IMPACCT COVID-19): protocol for a prospective, multicentre, mixed-methods cohort study: Introduction The ongoing pandemic could affect the duration, variety and severity of the mental, physical, and cognitive impairments [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/SR5egI | 04:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: A big step for required vaccination in schools will come tomorrow from @CountyofLA, the 2nd largest school district in the US with >600,000 students, for age ≥ 12http://laschoolboard.org/sites/default/files/09-09-21SpclBdMaterials.pdf @lapublichealth → https://is.gd/j2SRY0 | 04:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Crushed it.🇳🇿 vs Deltahttps://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-source-casesdown to 13 today → https://is.gd/h0GWRP | 05:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 802: Another epitope with Shane Crotty: Shane Crotty returns to TWiV to review the immunology of COVID-19, including differences between infection and vaccination, increased breadth of antibodies after infection followed by vaccination, the roles of T cells, and whether booster vaccinations are needed. → https://is.gd/ZH4t1t | 06:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Fact check: Can Covid be cured with aspirin? → https://is.gd/KnKm2O | 06:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from Science-Based Medicine: Courts should not order hospitals and physicians to administer ivermectin against their will: Courts in several states have ordered hospitals to administer ivermectin to COVID patients against the medical judgment of treating physicians. Patients have legal no right to a particular treatment and health care providers [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/4LO4cm | 07:03 |
| gry | %more | 07:24 |
| Brainstorm | gry, [...] https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-grapheneoxide-vaccine-idUSL1N2OZ14F (Fact Check-COVID-19 vaccines do not contain graphene oxide) — https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmed.2021.648005/full (A Diagnostic and Therapeutic Approach to COVID-19 | Medicine) [...] → https://paste.ee/p/qKtYX | 07:24 |
| Brainstorm | gry, [...] should not be forced to administer this drug. The post first appeared on Science-Based Medicine . → https://paste.ee/p/Bl8Ws | 07:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Seven days in medicine: 1-7 September 2021: Covid-19One in seven children may have lasting symptomsA large study of children and young people who caught SARS-CoV-2 found that as many as one in seven (14%) may still have symptoms 15 weeks... → https://is.gd/QlwYJl | 07:56 |
| `St0ner | https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/child-covid-19-hospitalizations-reach-a-new-high-as-u-s-schools-reopen-1.5578264 | 08:21 |
| undefined_bob | surprise surprise | 08:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | September 09, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/VxRgEE | 09:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid: Consultation to consider mandatory Covid jabs for all health staff → https://is.gd/PLFzWW | 09:23 |
| ottavio | Hi. UK here. I've had a flu from about 4 days. It started as a cold, now the cold symptoms have gone but I still have a mild flu. I have had two AZ jabs and I have tested myslef (lateral flow NHS kit) and it comes negative. Should I do a PCR test? Could it be covid? | 09:49 |
| ottavio | s/from/for | 09:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from WHO Euro: Ambassador Nora Kronig Romero presents the report of the Twenty-eighth Standing Committee of the Regional Committee for Europe.: Unfortunately, because of the continued pandemic situation, this Standing Committee could not meet one single time in person. Nevertheless, members felt even more privileged to serve WHO in these [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/kzgQpz | 09:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Global COVID Cases For 09SEP21 → https://is.gd/qmLK2l | 10:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Colbert on MU Variant.: submitted by /u/Few-Personality3338 to r/CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV → https://is.gd/3VuVp9 | 11:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: US is No. 4 in the world with most orphaned children by COVID deaths, study finds - July 12, 2021 → https://is.gd/uF0nSu | 11:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: The BMJ Awards 2021: Workforce and wellbeing team of the year: Wide ranging psychological support for intensive care staffPsychological consequences of work such as burnout and post-traumatic stress disorder were prevalent before the pandemic, but covid-19 has... → https://is.gd/bUrqCa | 11:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from Pfizer: Anonymous: UK’s MHRA Grants Marketing Authorisation for Pfizer’s CIBINQO® (abrocitinib) for Adults and Adolescents With Moderate to Severe Atopic Dermatitis → https://is.gd/UQajPy | 13:10 |
| de-facto | !title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.08.459464v1 | 13:36 |
| de-facto | "SARS-CoV-2 expresses a microRNA-like small RNA able to selectively repress host genes" | 13:37 |
| de-facto | !tell nixonix https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.08.459464v1 "SARS-CoV-2 expresses a microRNA-like small RNA able to selectively repress host genes" | 13:40 |
| de-facto | Brainstorm are you dead? | 13:40 |
| * de-facto pokes Brainstorm | 13:40 | |
| * Brainstorm starts to want de-facto with some unclassifiable exclusion principle | 13:40 | |
| de-facto | lazy bot | 13:41 |
| de-facto | .tell nixonix https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.08.459464v1 "SARS-CoV-2 expresses a microRNA-like small RNA able to selectively repress host genes" | 13:41 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, I'll pass nixonix your message when they are around. | 13:41 |
| de-facto | ah ok my fault | 13:41 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(21)00248-6/fulltext | 13:43 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.thelancet.com: Clinical performance evaluation of SARS-CoV-2 rapid antigen testing in point of care usage in comparison to RT-qPCR - EBioMedicine | 13:43 |
| de-facto | "The sensitivity of RDT compared to RT-qPCR was 42·57% (95% CI 33·38%–52·31%). The specificity was 99·68% (95% CI 99·48%–99·80%). Sensitivity declined with decreasing viral load from 100% in samples with a deduced viral load of ≥10^8 SARS-CoV-2 RNA copies per ml to 8·82% in samples with a viral load lower than 10^4 SARS-CoV-2 RNA copies per ml. " | 13:44 |
| de-facto | hence for every 5 PCR positive only 2 were found with RDT (lateral flow rapid antigen quicktest) | 13:46 |
| de-facto | .tell ottavio https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(21)00248-6/fulltext "Clinical performance evaluation of SARS-CoV-2 rapid antigen testing in point of care usage in comparison to RT-qPCR - EBioMedicine" | 13:47 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, I'll pass ottavio aka m0ttv your message when they are around. | 13:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from ECDC: ECDC: Data for the maps in support of the Council Recommendation on a coordinated approach to the restriction of free movement in response to the COVID-19 pandemic in the EU/EEA → https://is.gd/o2qmzJ | 14:15 |
| SpearRaven | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcjzHMhBtf0 | 14:21 |
| SpearRaven | NEW YORK, N.Y. – A hospital in New York City is using a rock anthem to celebrate every one of its COVID-19 patients who are on the road to recovery. | 14:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Early Timeline of Coronavirus (Dec 19 to Feb 20): I put together a timeline of the first 2 months of the Coronavirus from China to the world, with small focus on Australia. Let me know if there's anything missing or if there's any articles that would add to the details. → https://is.gd/QVv12U | 14:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: FDA’s rejection of Humanigen drug highlights problems in developing Covid-19 treatments: The FDA has declined to grant emergency use authorization to lenzilumab, an experimental drug developed by Humanigen, for the treatment of hospitalized patients with Covid-19. → https://is.gd/2EQnVl | 15:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Pharma: STAT+: Pharmalittle: Biden drug-pricing plan backs Medicare negotiations; Moderna tests combined Covid-19 booster and flu shot → https://is.gd/v5SJvV | 15:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Qantas to ban unvaccinated travelers from international flights in new pandemic measure → https://is.gd/hENqWW | 16:04 |
| lastshell | https://covid.joinzoe.com anothervcovid tracker | 16:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): RotaTeq, rotavirus vaccine, live, Immunization;Rotavirus Infections, Date of authorisation: 26/06/2006, Revision: 31, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/qoNUhX | 16:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from LitCovid: (news): Optimizing effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccination: will laboratory stewardship play a role? → https://is.gd/feELGc | 17:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: R to @EricTopol: Striking relationship between adult vaccinations and children getting covid, requiring hospitalization (at state level)https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/09/09/us/covid-children-cases-icu.html by @LaurenLeatherby and @amyswalk @nytgraphics → https://is.gd/p4Cbw0 | 18:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: R to @EricTopol: Annotations—Green pass required for air, rail travel as has been done in Canada and many countries—Requirement for vaccination all health care workers, teachers—Need US data to decide about Moderna, J&J boosters (can't come from Israel) → https://is.gd/qYILSM | 18:37 |
| miksrutto | while thinking about virions exit, and remembering the alterate ways like suggested cell ripping apart and launching large bunch of mature virions, how enveloped virions would gain their surface proteins that way? | 18:38 |
| miksrutto | anybody read about the process? explain to me | 18:39 |
| miksrutto | "Viral envelopes are acquired at host cell membranes—some at the plasma membrane, others at internal cell membranes such as the nuclear membrane, endoplasmic reticulum, and Golgi complex | 18:43 |
| miksrutto | ah ok, there are other ways to get the envelope than from plasma membrane - internal membranes. so apparently ready surface proteins could form or be attached to those internal membranes too | 18:45 |
| miksrutto | but which method sars-2 uses, or both? | 18:45 |
| miksrutto | well ok, sars2 apparently doesnt use plasma membrane, but internal membranes of ERGIC complex: "Coronaviruses are distinct from other well-studied enveloped viruses in that they bud into the ERGIC, from where they acquire their membrane envelope | 18:48 |
| miksrutto | .title https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/08/covid-german-super-spreader-event-created-by-poor-ventilation-study-finds | 18:56 |
| Brainstorm | miksrutto: From www.theguardian.com: German Covid super-spreader event driven by poor ventilation, study finds | Germany | The Guardian | 18:56 |
| miksrutto | did not observe any influence for the amount of alcohol consumption on the risk of becoming infected (OR per drink: 1.00 [0.96; 1.05]) | 18:58 |
| miksrutto | apparently alcohol isnt antiviral then... | 18:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Days Before Her Death, She Posted TikTok Videos Encouraging People To Get Vaccinated: Megan Alexandra Blankenbiller got sick before she was able to get the COVID-19 vaccine and she spent her time in the hospital trying to help others to get the shot. → https://is.gd/b4VpCs | 18:58 |
| miksrutto | Tables close to the air-outlets (figure 2) show high (4 or 5 infected per table) and very high (6 or 7 infected per table) numbers of infected individuals | 19:00 |
| miksrutto | but there are some superspreader individuals, right? those that produce lots of virions in air, either by speaking, and mouth-breathers ofc | 19:03 |
| pwr22 | Does breathing through the nose really make much difference to the amount of viruses you breath out? | 19:03 |
| miksrutto | ill try to find out, with google | 19:04 |
| miksrutto | .title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8219058/ according to this, concrete evidence still missing | 19:09 |
| Brainstorm | miksrutto: From www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Bioaerosols from mouth-breathing: Under-recognized transmissible mode in COVID-19? | 19:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Biden to require all federal workers to be vaccinated -source → https://is.gd/8FspIj | 19:09 |
| miksrutto | thats the best i found with couple minutes of googling. if somebody has more information, let us know | 19:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from Il Sole 24 Ore: I numeri chiave del mercato farmaceutico: Tra il 2018 e il 2020 l'export farmaceutico italiano è salito del 41,2%. I vaccini spingono il settore: in Europa è Biontech la società con maggiore crescita attesa nel 2021, nel mondo è Moderna. Questo ed altro in due webinar, il 14 e il 17 settembre → https://is.gd/H5qC2d | 19:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Th kidneys are the Rodney Dangerfield of #LongCovid. They don't get no respect https://www.nature.com/articles/s41581-021-00487-3@KidneydrChirag @NatRevNeph → https://is.gd/FUQErz | 19:43 |
| miksrutto | they did, here yesterday | 19:53 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-severe-covid-cases-could-reach-400-by-mid-august-researchers-warn/ when pfizer got down to 80% vs hospitalization | 19:58 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: At 2021-09-09 11:41:27 UTC, de-facto told you: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.08.459464v1 "SARS-CoV-2 expresses a microRNA-like small RNA able to selectively repress host genes" | 19:58 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.timesofisrael.com: Vaccine effectiveness in preventing serious illness falls to 80% - Israeli study | The Times of Israel | 19:58 |
| nixonix | ty de-facto ill have a look in a minute | 19:59 |
| nixonix | those most likely age groups getting hospitalized from rona, over 70 yo, got their 2nd dose around mid-late feb probably, so under 5 months to the moment those in the study got infected. and it had 80% vs hospitalization with delta then | 20:00 |
| nixonix | did they even have all delta that time? when did they reach 90% something delta? | 20:01 |
| LjL | who did what? | 20:01 |
| nixonix | ? put a few words more there in between, and ill answer | 20:02 |
| nixonix | my last sentence? in israel | 20:02 |
| LjL | <miksrutto> they did, here yesterday | 20:02 |
| LjL | don't get what you were referring to | 20:02 |
| nixonix | ah, i answered topols line in the tweet | 20:03 |
| LjL | i just came here though and gave a quick look at the backscroll | 20:03 |
| LjL | ah | 20:03 |
| nixonix | we shouldnt do that | 20:03 |
| LjL | we gave Rodney Dangerfield respect? (i don't know who he is) | 20:03 |
| nixonix | from WHO | 20:03 |
| LjL | oh wait | 20:03 |
| LjL | what is a Rodney Dangerfield? | 20:04 |
| nixonix | singer | 20:04 |
| nixonix | underappreciated i guess, topol thinks. prob a big fan | 20:04 |
| nixonix | because i think he is very appreciated | 20:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: Biden to Announce New Steps to Rein in COVID’s Spread: Biden’s hope is to reset the U.S. response to the pandemic amid of a surge of new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths caused by the Delta variant. → https://is.gd/qhWfLo | 20:05 |
| LjL | Dangerfield's widow held an event in which the word "respect" had been emblazoned in the sky, while each guest was given a live monarch butterfly for a butterfly-release ceremony led by Farrah Fawcett.[56] | 20:05 |
| LjL | probably related | 20:05 |
| nixonix | i was thinking, why those unexplained-looking case curves turning down, could also be explained by that superspreader individuals got used, either by infection or a vaccination | 20:09 |
| nixonix | there are some more exotic explanations, like cellular immunity for exposed people, that dont develope actual infection, but idk. extraordinary claims etc... | 20:10 |
| nixonix | -e | 20:10 |
| nixonix | if there are superspreader types, some of them might have got infection several times already. with increasing intervals, due to more infecting new variants. when immunity lasts shorter and shorter time | 20:12 |
| nixonix | reinfections with ancestral variants looked very rare, because variants around didnt reinfect very easily, when you had some abs left. now its different, so there are more reinfections with shorter intervals | 20:13 |
| nixonix | btw, i looked at some south american countries variants, and it looked like uk variant coudnt compete against some of their local variants. P.1 and some others too. being more infective than 1.1.7 it seems. maybe they got some help when there was lots of immunity around, due to better immune evasion, though | 20:16 |
| nixonix | some evolutionary biologist thought, that C.1.2 has better chance vs delta than Mu | 20:18 |
| Aidhan | If I identify as a pterodactyl does that mean I can’t get infected? I’ve not heard about pterodactyls getting covid | 20:18 |
| nixonix | there was prob more oxygen in air in their time, for those to be able to fly | 20:20 |
| nixonix | and more forest fires because of it? maybe bamboo wasnt that susceptible to them | 20:21 |
| Aidhan | Interesting point. I have a takeaway that if there were to be a higher oxygen content, that fires would burn more intensely than now, and rarely be extinguished. | 20:22 |
| Aidhan | Wow you had the same point | 20:22 |
| nixonix | i think bamboos were among earliest trees, if i recall | 20:23 |
| nixonix | not old enough, first bamboos after dinos had died, 30-40 M yo. but their predecessors then | 20:28 |
| nixonix | oh yeah, de-facto, it was known that sars2 downregulates some cellular proteins, but maybe that mrRNA route is a novel discovery then. and it mentioned interferon signalling, theres lots of buzzing around sars2 regulating type I inf (and apparently some variants like uk even more). depending on state of infection, those can be protective or | 20:40 |
| nixonix | increase inflammation, which esp uk variant uses differently. not sure if Mu too | 20:40 |
| nixonix | wherever Mu is evolved from, uk or those E484K variants. which one its closer to? should check | 20:41 |
| nixonix | *miRNA (and vmiR-5p of the virus) | 20:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: News Scan for Sep 09, 2021: COVID-19 and colorectal cancer COVID vaccines and mental health → https://is.gd/lATrif | 20:47 |
| nixonix | " It is tempting to speculate that, because of their high stability, small RNAs could be successfully used as therapeutic agents against SARS-CoV-2" | 20:50 |
| de-facto | yeah i thought that is a very interesting paper, especially since it could be relevant for mutations outside of S-protein influencing fitness e.g. Delta et al | 20:50 |
| de-facto | imho the other locations such as ORF7 etc deserve much more attention | 20:51 |
| nixonix | when they identify those single functional genes, they can turn them off and see what happens. like with knockout mice | 21:02 |
| de-facto | yes that would be very interesting, also for attenuation | 21:12 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/skathire/status/1436011096347971584 | 21:12 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Sek Kathiresan MD (@skathire): "Eric, mRNA + LNP enabling field of gene editing as well... 👇" | nitter | 21:12 |
| nixonix | in the thread they mention moderna's upcoming multi-valent vaccines - now that they are planning to give some old ppl flu and 3rd ronavax at the same time, is that wise thinking the immune response? any efficiency lost? | 21:14 |
| de-facto | isnt that done with other vaccines too | 21:19 |
| LjL | nixonix, are they also multivalent in the sense of having multiple COVID spike "strains"? or just one COVID and then flu? | 21:19 |
| de-facto | good question | 21:19 |
| nixonix | i think moderna's financial report mentioned a ronavax version with two spikes, the ancient and SA variant perhaps | 21:20 |
| LjL | probably. i'm mostly interested in whether there's more than one COVID "strain" because i think that could make it a lot better | 21:20 |
| LjL | based on these papers that are finding "super-antibodies" if you are infected with one thing and get vaccinated with a related but different thing | 21:20 |
| nixonix | could you link me? | 21:21 |
| nixonix | .title https://gizmodo.com/sars-survivors-vaccinated-against-covid-19-may-have-sup-1847517837 other than this | 21:22 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From gizmodo.com: SARS Survivors Vaccinated Against Covid-19 May Have Super-Antibodies to Coronaviruses | 21:23 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108453?query=TOC&cid=NEJM%20eToc,%20August%2019,%202021%20DM226921_NEJM_Non_Subscriber&bid=584951384 | 21:25 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nejm.org: Pan-Sarbecovirus Neutralizing Antibodies in BNT162b2-Immunized SARS-CoV-1 Survivors | NEJM | 21:25 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.23.457229v1 | 21:28 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.biorxiv.org: mRNA Vaccination Induces Durable Immune Memory to SARS-CoV-2 with Continued Evolution to Variants of Concern | bioRxiv | 21:28 |
| LjL | nixonix, if i have it, it must be here :P https://www.zotero.org/groups/4391070/covid_links/collections/G8D9TQ2D/tags/Moderna/collection | 21:30 |
| nixonix | that npr article mentions the study above, i think you put it there | 21:30 |
| LjL | it's good that apparently the body continues "refining" the antibodies, and even better than pan-sarbecovirus thing. but i don't understand, how is that compatible with verified waning protection? | 21:30 |
| LjL | nixonix, yes i have both the article and the study. the article also mentions another study that is *sort of* similar (but not with SARS), but i didn't really read that one so i didn't add it | 21:31 |
| nixonix | those that are continually secreted by plasma cells, are waning because the number of those cells reduces (not using unneccessarily energy to maintain huge amounts of immune cells - using memory cells instead) | 21:32 |
| nixonix | but those memory cells mature in germinal centers for increased affinity to their antigen by hypermutations and selection of the best ones | 21:32 |
| LjL | nixonix, yeah that antibodies themselves are waning wouldn't worry me. but it looks like *protection* is actually waning, i.e. you can see people get infected more months after the vaccine, right? | 21:33 |
| nixonix | lots of components in immunity, some of them wane, some of them keep improving. some of them efficient for some viruses, and others for some other types | 21:33 |
| LjL | (get infected, get serious, whatever) | 21:33 |
| nixonix | against sars 2, esp this delta, it seems high levels of those IgG present in plasma, are essential to prevent or suppress systemic infection (also might do that in mucosa already, if lucky, with aid of innate immune responses) | 21:35 |
| nixonix | then we have IgA. too bad that it wanes very low in around 40 days according to some study. mucosal IgA is different, its dimeric with secretory component in between two IgAs. depending its lenght, it may be able to cross-link spikes of the same virion, or monomers of the same spike - and then clump several virions together | 21:39 |
| LjL | would that be elicited a lot more with intranasal vaccines? | 21:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Trudeau says Rebel News spreads disinformation on vaccines → https://is.gd/QuM6MG | 21:40 |
| nixonix | yeah. maybe the protection wont last long though | 21:45 |
| nixonix | they got a good IgG response too using AZ intranasally. but i think not for all the test subjects, if i recall | 21:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: R to @EricTopol: —Continued lack of recognition of Prior Covid to = 1 dose of vaccine (important for Green pass/CDC cards)—A vaccine-centric, lack attention to data deficiency, soft package that is not the aggressive "path out of the pandemic" that we need now. → https://is.gd/8S0C3o | 21:52 |
| hateball | What if you were born immune | 21:52 |
| nixonix | IgA hasnt been researched that much and i havent read about it much, but it seems there is not much memory IgA, and possibly only due to class-switching | 21:52 |
| nixonix | there are those rare people immune to HIV, but were they born that way or gained ability to get completely rid of it, i dont remember | 21:56 |
| nixonix | "The main mechanism is a mutation of the gene encoding CCR5, which acts as a co-receptor for HIV. It is estimated that the proportion of people with some form of resistance to HIV is under 10% | 21:59 |
| nixonix | "we identified 35 drugs that reduced replication in Vero cells and human hepatocytes when treated prior to SARS-CoV-2 infection and found amodiaquine, atovaquone, bedaquiline, ebastine, LY2835219, manidipine, panobinostat, and vitamin D3 to be effective in slowing SARS-CoV-2 replication | 22:06 |
| hateball | Interesting, I eat ebastine and D3 daily | 22:07 |
| hateball | could that have been keeping me safe | 22:07 |
| nixonix | still open, are the good equatorial levels of vitamin D essentially better than those above deficiency. my solution, lets try anyway | 22:07 |
| nixonix | all above better than ivermectin, which needs 100k higher concentrations than typical human doses, and something like 50x more than is tolerable, if i recall | 22:08 |
| nixonix | to have any effect (almost anything goes as an antiviral with high enough concentrations, in cell cultures) | 22:08 |
| nixonix | .title https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1009840 quote was from this one | 22:10 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From journals.plos.org: Discovery of re-purposed drugs that slow SARS-CoV-2 replication in human cells | 22:10 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(21)00331-3/fulltext anything new on this? expert comments or something, link me. true if huge | 22:12 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.thelancet.com: The Lancet | The best science for better lives | 22:12 |
| nixonix | * baricitinib RCT with great results | 22:13 |
| nixonix | are antihistamines protective, and how? | 22:15 |
| nixonix | vs cytokine storm? | 22:15 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-835734/latest | 22:16 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.researchsquare.com: Efficacy of Combination Therapy With The JAK Inhibitor Baricitinib In The Treatment of COVID-19 | Research Square | 22:16 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(21)00273-4 ebastine apparently has antiviral effects | 22:21 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.cell.com: Drug repurposing screens reveal cell-type-specific entry pathways and FDA-approved drugs active against SARS-Cov-2: Cell Reports | 22:22 |
| hateball | nixonix: do you know about any studies looking at what effect autophagy has on covid-19 ? | 22:28 |
| hateball | you seem pretty interested in this stuff | 22:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Sweeping new vaccine mandates for 100 million Americans → https://is.gd/lja3Rq | 22:34 |
| nixonix | no, since i had to google autophagy. normal by aging or by some disease? | 22:41 |
| hateball | what | 22:45 |
| nixonix | it seems to be more like recycling, tho. but turning off or inhibiting abnormal functioning of it has been studied | 22:45 |
| hateball | Autophagy by eg fasting | 22:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Listen: Verily’s moment of truth, Aduhelm’s rocky rollout, & the problem with Covid testing: Are we ever getting that Tricorder? Why's it so hard to find Covid-19 tests? And is misinformation stopping Biogen from making money? All that and more on the latest episode… → https://is.gd/9gtFpQ | 22:45 |
| nixonix | i dont know anything about fasting. jesus did it, right? cellular autophagy is something else | 22:46 |
| ublx | fasting is thought to (known to?) boost autophagy | 22:47 |
| nixonix | what are the studies on mrna vaccines' neutralizing ab titers with different dose intervals? 3 weeks vs 4, 6, 12... | 22:56 |
| nixonix | are there any? link, title, some pointer to find | 22:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Exhibit 99,999 of #VaccinesWork From today's @PHE_uk report https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1016465/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_36.pdfGraphs via @JamesWard73 Yes, there are some people, particularly advanced age, who get hospitalized or even die [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/RzpDWC | 22:56 |
| de-facto | probably would need live virus neutralization as other tests may depend on the specific choice of antigen | 23:02 |
| de-facto | or a very well calibrated one | 23:02 |
| de-facto | because of maturing of antibody affinity it may be of importance | 23:03 |
| nixonix | arent there any comparing the effect of interval? | 23:08 |
| nixonix | are you guys reading that uk report. page 18 | 23:09 |
| nixonix | those 80+ were among the first ones, and some of them prob got it with 3 week interval, so maybe 70-79 is more interesting | 23:10 |
| nixonix | rate per 100k, prob unadjusted by other than age, looks like no protection for infection left. but the same with all those 40-79. weeks 32-35 | 23:11 |
| nixonix | behavioral differencies, vaccinated moving around more. but still, what is this | 23:12 |
| de-facto | there is that one UK study with the short and long dosing intervals | 23:12 |
| de-facto | but i would like so see more detailed data | 23:12 |
| de-facto | pitch-study.org | 23:13 |
| nixonix | uk study with ab titers? | 23:13 |
| nixonix | look at that case diagram, page 18 | 23:14 |
| nixonix | in topols tweet | 23:14 |
| nixonix | then page 22, only under 20% N seropositive. in uk. not likely, so many must have been waned off to be seen anymore | 23:15 |
| LjL | oh they studies the positives to N specifically? | 23:16 |
| LjL | that's something we've mentioned often but i didn't know it *was* being done | 23:16 |
| nixonix | well yeah, there is that non-systemic part that dont get IgG much. whatever they used in that Roche assay | 23:16 |
| de-facto | hmm nixonix at first sight that looks like its not as simple as a protection factor but two different time constants in the exponetials | 23:16 |
| de-facto | e.g. its not always 10% or such, but both different exponential functions of age | 23:17 |
| de-facto | hmm hmm | 23:19 |
| de-facto | what does mean "per 100000" | 23:19 |
| de-facto | of same cohort or of population | 23:19 |
| de-facto | because if its the later it depends on vaccination rate | 23:19 |
| nixonix | eg 400 infection per unvaccinated 100k. the same with vacc. should be the same imo | 23:20 |
| nixonix | do they have vaccine passports in use in uk? so there would be big behavioral differencies | 23:21 |
| nixonix | meaning in bars or events etc | 23:21 |
| de-facto | it can be either 400 infections of unvaccinated per 100k population or it can be 400 infections in unvaccinated per 100k unvaccinated | 23:21 |
| de-facto | when population consists in general of vaccinated and unvaccinated at different ratios per age group | 23:21 |
| nixonix | the former wouldnt make sense, why adjust per 100k then at all | 23:22 |
| de-facto | well thats what i mean, i hope they did unvaccinated infections per 100k unvaccinated compared to breakthrough infections per fully vaccinated | 23:24 |
| nixonix | maybe those tables above can be used to calculate, what the graph means | 23:24 |
| de-facto | "Rates among persons vaccinated with 2 doses" etc that makes sense in the tables | 23:25 |
| de-facto | yeah its the brits, they probably did it correctly | 23:26 |
| nixonix | earlier in the report, why dont they say what was the efficacy vs symptomatic during those specific weeks, but instead babbe stuff like "Data on 2 doses is indicates effectiveness of around 65 to 90% | 23:26 |
| nixonix | then that table: "testing data up to 13 June 2021 | 23:27 |
| nixonix | and "This analysis used available data from linkage of symptomatic cases, 12 April to the 10 June 2021 (updated from the previous analysis to 4 June 2021) | 23:28 |
| nixonix | wtf, whats the efficacy now! weeks 32-35, come on | 23:28 |
| nixonix | what are you trying to hide. any british here? | 23:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: No, it's not a "pandemic of the unvaccinated" @POTUS (a refrain just now)That omits children age < 12, with their highest covid rate since the US pandemic began.The pandemic affects every person, irrespective of vaccination status, even if unvaccinated are the driving force. → https://is.gd/Wpmcbh | 23:29 |
| LjL | oh Topol is starting to vocally disagree with the now-ridiculous "99% are unvaccinated!" story? | 23:29 |
| LjL | which, by the way, i've already had personal experience with telling someone from the US "no, it's not really like that anymore" and immediately they decided that it meant the government and everyone were lying to them | 23:30 |
| LjL | which is always my annoyance with these "white lies" | 23:30 |
| nixonix | they lie all the time here, our hc officials. not telling the truth about protection waning, need for 3rd doses, plan to vaccinate kids fast etc | 23:31 |
| nixonix | now one of them slipped, either by accident or on purpose, as a way to carefully admit, the protection for infection wanes super fast vs delta (and starts to wane way too quick vs hospitalization couple months after, at least with 3 weeks interval) | 23:32 |
| nixonix | %tr <fi "Riski saada tartunta tulee edelleen olemaan samalla tasolla" | 23:33 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix, Finnish to English: "The risk of becoming infected will still be at the same level" (MyMemory, Google) | 23:33 |
| nixonix | meaning after the vaccination. nobody noticed. not many understood what he slipped | 23:33 |
| nixonix | maybe they got that british data, that they were hiding in the report... thats where most of their rona knowledge comes anyway | 23:34 |
| nixonix | anyways, if you find dose interval comparisons for any vaccine, meaning neut titers, link me | 23:36 |
| nixonix | another question, do you remember what studies had both pfizer and moderna and their neut ab titers? to check if moderna (with 4 w interval) really had around double than what pfizer had | 23:37 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/LisaForKansas/status/1436072534118645767 | 23:42 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix, the URL could not be loaded | 23:42 |
| nixonix | unadjusted data yeah, but still it looks like the old 2nd dose isnt in its best shape anymore, after a few months... | 23:43 |
| LjL | what's the thing that says it wanes vs hospitalization couple months after? last time i think we had something saying "numbers are too small to evaluate hospitalizations" | 23:43 |
| nixonix | from comments, no, there should be very few people among under 80 yo who cant be vaccinated. yet there might be more, or even their doctors, who still think its risky for them | 23:44 |
| nixonix | ljl check what i wrote and linked earlier, when i came (israel hosp article etc) | 23:45 |
| nixonix | for qatar, yeah too little data vs hosp to say much | 23:45 |
| nixonix | id like to read those virology and immunology papers instead of epidemiological messy and partially adjusted stuff, but i guess we have to find out the waning rates of protection roughly, since it seems to depend mostly about circulating abs even vs severe | 23:49 |
| nixonix | i wonder if its the same vs icu and deaths. did the protection for them waned too in israel? | 23:51 |
| nixonix | remembering killer t-cells wane fast too, whatever their protection is | 23:52 |
| nixonix | maybe not as fast with vector vaccines. how long that dna stays intact in cells? | 23:53 |
| nixonix | producing more mrna for more spikes | 23:53 |
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