| LjL | it's the noblebo effect | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| nixonix | yeah, people have b-cells ready for different epitopes, and if some of the ab they secrete works, that b-cell starts to proliferate and more the same will be produced | 00:01 |
| nixonix | so some people just have b-cells that bind tighter than some others. if those are find, they could be produced as mAbs | 00:02 |
| lastshell | LjL they said there is a tin libe between genius and insanity | 00:03 |
| nixonix | but what is not known for sure, if those with tighter binding or those with weaker, are used for circulating antibody production, or to migrate to germinal centers for affinity maturing (i read that current thinking is, probably those with weaker) | 00:03 |
| nixonix | so they will eventually get better too | 00:04 |
| lastshell | *thin line | 00:05 |
| LjL | oh the NPR article does cite the study i already had in mind eventually | 00:06 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1432056573124247553 it didnt seem to be here (which ones go to GC), but great read anyway | 00:07 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): "In a recent thread I posited that mechanisms of antibody production, viral resistance, and somatic hypermutation can explain why pre-Delta vaccines block most [...] | 00:07 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/07/guo-wengui-pushes-ivermectin-misinformation-network.html alias Miles Kwok. actually a proxy for ccp? ive been thinking he might be | 00:12 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.cnbc.com: Guo Wengui pushes unproven drug ivermectin to treat Covid | 00:12 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: New Studies Find Evidence Of 'Superhuman' Immunity To COVID-19 In Some Individuals ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/N2FEXH5Q ) | 00:13 | |
| OrTh0DoX | https://odysee.com/@TruthVault:0/THE-TRUE-AGENDA-BEHIND:9?fbclid=IwAR08J1QUKm9QjMXYCO01l6y-dvQrNa-veSy-_gwyWn4sIgHjrp2vd_g_6Kg | 00:13 |
| nixonix | i found a twitter thread from couple of weeks ago, and rogan is repeating the same the tweeter says about japan, like they would be recommending ivm. the claim was disputed in the thread, somebody saying it was from the last february, and just some single doctor | 00:14 |
| OrTh0DoX | Both COVID-19 and its vaccine are actually engineered as bio-weapon | 00:15 |
| nixonix | so if you get rogan's attention, he not only believes anything you say, he will also claim it publicly... | 00:16 |
| OrTh0DoX | These pharmaceutical companies will stop at nothing... | 00:16 |
| LjL | ragh | 00:17 |
| nixonix | which vaccine is a bioweapon? | 00:17 |
| OrTh0DoX | the mRNA ones | 00:17 |
| nixonix | sigh, az isnt then | 00:18 |
| OrTh0DoX | the rest i'm not sure cause it wasn't mentioned | 00:18 |
| nixonix | i thought that az is supreme, i knew it | 00:18 |
| nixonix | and sputnik | 00:18 |
| LjL | you know something is true when it's called TruthSomething | 00:18 |
| OrTh0DoX | Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA too | 00:18 |
| nixonix | where did you hear that? | 00:18 |
| LjL | "too"? | 00:18 |
| LjL | what others ones are mRNA? | 00:18 |
| LjL | anyway i was going to link to https://theintercept.com/2021/09/06/new-details-emerge-about-coronavirus-research-at-chinese-lab/ (again) and ask whether you find this is actually a potentially important scoop and not a biased rehashing of things. just my luck i'm doing it right when the channel is least biased | 00:19 |
| de-facto | if they were a bioweapon, how much money could they make by destroying their own market? | 00:19 |
| nixonix | bill gates will pay them, so he will get the whole word for himself. to grow peanuts | 00:20 |
| OrTh0DoX | what do u mean by destroying their own market? | 00:20 |
| LjL | nixonix, the Blue Marble of Death | 00:21 |
| OrTh0DoX | create a virus and spread it | 00:21 |
| nixonix | carter tried it too, was it with polio vax. but it didnt work | 00:21 |
| nixonix | work out | 00:21 |
| LjL | OrTh0DoX, i'm sorry, i'm going to ask you for evidence in a form that's not a random person's scoopstatic video for something of that tenure | 00:21 |
| OrTh0DoX | then research on vaccine and countries spend $$$ to buy from them | 00:21 |
| LjL | this channel tries to have a scientific orientation | 00:21 |
| de-facto | you said mRNA vaccines were a bioweapon, against whom? | 00:22 |
| annaa_ | lol | 00:22 |
| OrTh0DoX | i also interested to know that too | 00:22 |
| de-facto | if that was directed against their customers they would destroy their market | 00:23 |
| de-facto | hence that does not make any sense to me | 00:23 |
| nixonix | those vaccines are pretty cheap for developed countries. mine cost like under 50 something, 2 doses | 00:23 |
| nixonix | so its not that great business. they should have sold me a phone or even a pc game | 00:24 |
| nixonix | the price for mrna vaccines includes delivery to the country, that is pretty expensive. az is a lot cheaper, but its the price on factory, so the final price is much closer (while not similar cold chain requirements with it) | 00:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: Idaho begins rationing care as hospitals crumple under COVID load → https://is.gd/EXRH0F | 00:28 |
| LjL | well, i'm going to add the omgchina article anyway just because it's easier to read than papers | 00:29 |
| nixonix | so OrTh0DoX where can i see the evidence of mrna vaxes being bioweapons? | 00:30 |
| nixonix | im sure you have seen the evidence, and not just blindly believing what somebody says on a video or something | 00:31 |
| nixonix | and are they all bioweapons, pfizer's, moderna's, all those coming later? how about dna vaxes like Inovio's? dna is much more stable in cells | 00:33 |
| de-facto | hmm LjL do you have a link to the actual source behind that article? | 00:33 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: New Details Emerge About Coronavirus Research at Chinese Lab ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/GVDA5BBQ ) | 00:33 | |
| nixonix | and how about Sputnik, its a DNA vaccine. and that DNA will be transcripted to mRNA, so Sputnik is an mRNA vaccine too | 00:33 |
| LjL | de-facto, my understanding, unless they're stealing the merit, is that The Intercept itself obtained these documents through FOIA / litigation | 00:34 |
| LjL | de-facto, they link to *some* of them at least, like https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21055989-understanding-risk-bat-coronavirus-emergence-grant-notice | 00:34 |
| nixonix | so is bnt/pfizer merkel's bioweapon, sputnik putin's - and is moderna trump's or biden's? | 00:35 |
| de-facto | ah so its exclusively disclosed to only them because they went in front of court to get access to them? | 00:35 |
| LjL | de-facto, that's what they say. "The documents were released in connection with ongoing Freedom of Information Act litigation by The Intercept against the National Institutes of Health. The Intercept is making the full documents available to the public." | 00:36 |
| de-facto | ok so its 528 pages https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21055989/understanding-risk-bat-coronavirus-emergence-grant-notice.pdf and 386 pages https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21055988/risk-zoonotic-virus-hotspots-grant-notice.pdf hence 914 pages total | 00:39 |
| de-facto | just wanted to have them on my own hdd in case they get deleted again, but yeah once published they are out... | 00:42 |
| nixonix | i dont know why that funding (for meager 3M) is that interesting, exp if possibly some american law was broken (which doesnt interest me, though) | 00:42 |
| nixonix | nothing new about that "high level chinese defector?". or that bunch of research data they got | 00:43 |
| nixonix | which will take years to translate, or something | 00:44 |
| LjL | de-facto, should i try making archive.org explode? | 00:45 |
| nixonix | is that informant silenced or something? i was going to get that evidence on mrna vaccines | 00:46 |
| ublx | no you weren't | 00:46 |
| de-facto | LjL, haha well i guess they got an upper limit | 00:46 |
| LjL | de-facto, actually, nopt! it's there already https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21055989/understanding-risk-bat-coronavirus-emergence-grant-notice.pdf | 00:48 |
| LjL | nixonix, who, silenced? this is a free speech zone 🇺🇸 | 00:49 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.01.21262957v1 | 00:49 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: Effectiveness of the mRNA BNT162b2 vaccine six months after vaccination: findings from a large Israeli HMO | medRxiv | 00:50 |
| LjL | i find there is never lack of paper-based retrospective approval for vaccination policies, whether it be the UK or Israel... | 00:51 |
| LjL | although i wouldn't mind if Israel released a paper around their "39%" etc numbers, unless i missed it | 00:51 |
| de-facto | SHA256(risk-zoonotic-virus-hotspots-grant-notice.pdf with 158000459 bytes) = 2433c83ef39ab9fa803729fbb2843a287c9961c0ee51a1628f5edda70559d547 | 00:51 |
| de-facto | SHA256(understanding-risk-bat-coronavirus-emergence-grant-notice.pdf with 219707060 bytes) = 901458e14ea73b22ca8b1f0f6869eb4725e9ff9ba707a98e6c0640bfddd08673 | 00:52 |
| * LjL awards de-facto the level 2 Paranoia Badge | 00:52 | |
| de-facto | lol | 00:53 |
| de-facto | yay finally :D | 00:53 |
| LjL | Your newly-gained ability is "instant mind diff" | 00:54 |
| de-facto | next level: instant mind patch :D | 00:57 |
| nixonix | .title https://scitechdaily.com/study-of-6-2-million-patients-reveals-no-serious-health-effects-linked-to-mrna-covid-19-vaccines/ about that paper i think i linked earlier | 01:01 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From scitechdaily.com: Study of 6.2 Million Patients Reveals No Serious Health Effects Linked to mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines | 01:01 |
| LjL | patience, patience | 01:01 |
| LjL | that seems like a big lie | 01:01 |
| LjL | there is at least one serious health effect: it helps a lot against COVID | 01:02 |
| LjL | you can't trust this press | 01:02 |
| nixonix | .title https://scitechdaily.com/the-next-treatment-for-covid-19-could-already-be-at-your-local-pharmacy/ | 01:06 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From scitechdaily.com: The Next Treatment for COVID-19 Could Already Be at Your Local Pharmacy | 01:06 |
| nixonix | “We found lactoferrin had remarkable efficacy for preventing infection, working better than anything else we observed,” | 01:06 |
| nixonix | awesome. so we have the winner now? | 01:06 |
| nixonix | "He adds that early data suggest this efficacy extends even to newer variants of SARS-CoV2, including the highly transmissible Delta variant. | 01:07 |
| nixonix | bind iron. where did i just read about iron and rona, anyone remembers? | 01:07 |
| nixonix | *binds | 01:08 |
| LjL | https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&u=https://www.punto-informatico.it/green-pass-durata-dodici-mesi/ | 01:17 |
| gry | nixonix: why is binding iron useful? | 01:17 |
| nixonix | "To rule out iron chelation as a potential mode of action, iron-saturated hololactoferrin and transferrin were tested in Huh7 cells; the former retained activity and the latter was inactive | 01:17 |
| LjL | so unless our vice health minister is spouting out things that will be denied later, it seems like Italy is headed towards skipping Pfizer's generous third dose offer except for a limited amount of people, and will wait for what he calls "2.0" (sigh) vaccines instead | 01:17 |
| nixonix | i just vaguely remember iron levels were associated to pathology in some study | 01:18 |
| nixonix | maybe it was about chelation, but i have no idea, it was just some finding they mentioned in some paper | 01:18 |
| nixonix | here's something about the subject (not what i remember reading, though): https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210607/Natural-products-show-promise-against-COVID-19-via-iron-chelation.aspx | 01:20 |
| LjL | nixonix, hmm you linked some things involving iron and memory/alzheimer's | 01:20 |
| LjL | not directly about covid | 01:20 |
| gry | So if I have a very low iron level (anemia) would it need to be urgently fixed to reduce the risk of severe covid? | 01:21 |
| nixonix | so binding iron might reduce IL-6 possibly | 01:21 |
| nixonix | no, excess iron might be bad. due to dysregulation, not necessarily eating too much liver or whatever has lot of iron, i think | 01:22 |
| nixonix | ljl might have been that too, i just remember it had some connection to symptoms they thought. maybe not rona then | 01:23 |
| nixonix | but it that il-6 effect is correct, maybe it has | 01:23 |
| LjL | nixonix, i dunno, i'm finding you linked https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0197458021002104 and https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-06-unusual-copper-iron-brains-alzheimer.html | 01:24 |
| LjL | your joins with alternate nicknames are sort of a channel meme that lightens up the mood but they do make grepping logs trickier :P | 01:25 |
| nixonix | maybe it was that. i thought was it about brains or not. or maybe ive seen it in rona paper and alzheimer paper, and interference in memory. i have to double-dose theanine i think | 01:26 |
| LjL | gry, if anything the news-medical.net article nixonix linked suggests it's *too much* iron that can cause some of the serious issues, or more generally, iron regulation going haywire | 01:28 |
| LjL | nixonix, well, anyway if we find an iron-based drug to cure rona, clearly we must name it irona | 01:29 |
| nixonix | iron binding. nonironicxyl something | 01:30 |
| LjL | that's a lot more boring | 01:30 |
| LjL | anyway, the key is finding something that's already being sold in a formulation for horses. | 01:31 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1432260328381878279 | 01:31 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Prof Francois Balloux (@BallouxFrancois): "I struggle at times to take seriously anyone unironically retweeting Eric Feigl-Ding. " | 42l - nitter | 01:31 |
| LjL | uh does he | 01:31 |
| LjL | i have Eric Feigl-Ding in the RSS list | 01:31 |
| LjL | while i removed *Balloux* because he's way too militant for a militant corona-centrist | 01:31 |
| nixonix | he is a bit alarmist at times imo. the same thinks also leonardi, but he retweets him every now and then | 01:32 |
| nixonix | yeah, balloux can be rude | 01:32 |
| LjL | i need a cheatsheet of who's what type of corona-er | 01:33 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.06.459005v1 | 01:33 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.biorxiv.org: Ineffective neutralization of the SARS-CoV-2 Mu variant by convalescent and vaccine sera | bioRxiv | 01:33 |
| nixonix | neil ferguson was balloux's boss, if i recall | 01:34 |
| LjL | grand | 01:34 |
| nixonix | used to be | 01:34 |
| nixonix | where was it about age and severity, i just read. in some topol's tweet or was it a finnish article or something? U shape being typical, so that small kids and old ppl have it more severe, but with sars2 small kids less | 01:40 |
| nixonix | yet its still more severe for <4 yo than a bit older | 01:41 |
| nixonix | RSV is way more severe for small kids i think, compared to bit older | 01:41 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02423-8 maybe i linked this already. topol tweeted | 01:42 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nature.com: Kids and COVID: why young immune systems are still on top | 01:42 |
| nixonix | maybe most of them beat it in upper respiratory before it becomes systemic, and dont get organ damage, with innate immune response that seems to be the main thing in primary infection. or looked like it was, in that upper resp immunoprofiling paper | 01:45 |
| nixonix | the main thing in upper respiratory, i mean (in primary infection) | 01:46 |
| nixonix | but its still wishful thinking letting it burn through kids without vaccines for them | 01:47 |
| LjL | of course | 01:48 |
| LjL | meanwhile Topol just tweeted another rant against the US not releasing full numbers | 01:48 |
| LjL | %title https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1435245570294104067 | 01:48 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From twitter.com: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): "We have no national data for fully vaccinated people who have been hospitalized. 12% in Alabama. We need to know more: vaccine, when vaxxed, age, medical conditions, etc. [...] | 01:48 |
| LjL | why is it that even now, with Trump no longer in charge, it's a hopeless surgical procedure to try to extract data from the government? ;( | 01:48 |
| nixonix | yeah, he's really trolling that dude, some lawyer | 01:52 |
| LjL | wow, this is someone's quite mindblowing opinion | 01:52 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896841121001232?via%3Dihub | 01:52 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.sciencedirect.com: Evolutionary analysis of the Delta and Delta Plus variants of the SARS-CoV-2 viruses - ScienceDirect | 01:52 |
| LjL | %title https://twitter.com/Marsell0409/status/1435302803723915270 | 01:52 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, the URL could not be loaded | 01:52 |
| LjL | bleh | 01:52 |
| LjL | "So close the hospitals and manage cases at home with strict quarantine and BSL-4 PPE - or ask people to make a sacrifice and don't seek intervention. Stop transmission. Nothing else matters." | 01:52 |
| LjL | ask people to make a sacrifice and die without bothering the rest of us! | 01:52 |
| LjL | gee, is that so hard | 01:52 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.28.21252621v5.full maybe this was here already, not sure | 01:53 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: High failure rate of ChAdOx1 in healthcare workers during Delta variant surge: A case for continued use of masks post-vaccination | medRxiv | 01:53 |
| LjL | at least, the "most infections were unrecognized" part is good. but i get the point about continued trasmission. | 01:57 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: High failure rate of ChAdOx1 in healthcare workers during Delta variant surge: A case for continued use of masks post-vaccination ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/SEUFS5VF ) | 01:58 | |
| nixonix | so what would they do during that 5 years? wait that nothing happens to those that were in trials? | 01:59 |
| nixonix | when FDA used to have 6 months safety data delay for unadjuvanted vaccines... | 01:59 |
| nixonix | would that 10 times requirement apply to viral vector vaccines? (which are mrna vaccines too) how about chinese adjuvanted whole virus vaccines? | 02:00 |
| * LjL shrugs | 02:00 | |
| nixonix | why am i "arguing" when the loony isnt even present... | 02:01 |
| nixonix | wheres that informant? | 02:01 |
| LjL | the *founder* of r/Coronavirus_Italia is mad about the possible mandatory vaccination, because "you don't play with my body without my consent". first he said that. so then i asked him, "so you didn't get any of the mandatory vaccination at school?" and he said "that's different, those were proven for 40 years" | 02:01 |
| LjL | then i gave up replying, but others continued | 02:02 |
| LjL | first they weren't proven for 40 years, a few of them | 02:02 |
| LjL | and second, way to move the goalpost | 02:02 |
| LjL | one thing is saying "you don't play with my body without my consent, period" and another is "you should only play with my body when you have a ton of data" | 02:02 |
| LjL | those are different positions, and switching from one to the other in the span of two messages doesn't impress me | 02:03 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Ineffective neutralization of the SARS-CoV-2 Mu variant by convalescent and vaccine sera ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/FVPR82FX ) | 02:03 | |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: A US retrospective, case-control study of durability of Pfizer vaccine protection vs symptomatic infectionhttps://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.04.21263115v1 "wanes over time" Primary analysis adjusted odds ratio 3.2 [1.3,7.7] at 4 months after full vaccination by @_nference and @MayoClinic @BadleyAndrew → https://is.gd/360fQu | 02:03 |
| LjL | corollary: in some cases, "we should wait for more data" can be a defensible position, but, if you're just using it as an excuse, then not so much | 02:03 |
| nixonix | when you argue them down on some subject, it disappears from their memory and they start with another. its magic | 02:04 |
| LjL | maybe they need more theanine | 02:04 |
| LjL | why is it that whenever a study is calling some aspect of Pfizer (such as durability) into question, they feel the need to put "highly effective" in the title | 02:05 |
| specing | I guess we could have fun and start placing bets for when each country will make vaccination mandatory | 02:05 |
| LjL | %title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v2 | 02:05 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.medrxiv.org: Comparison of two highly-effective mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 during periods of Alpha and Delta variant prevalence | medRxiv | 02:05 |
| LjL | this study pretty much says, welp, they aren't highly effective against Delta after all | 02:06 |
| nixonix | i just saw pfizer winning moderna in some study, what was it again. did i link it here today? | 02:06 |
| LjL | but to make sure they are not interpreted as anti-vax (?) they need to say in the title, and then repeat a few times, that they *are* highly effective | 02:06 |
| LjL | nixonix, i don't remember that, but that wouldn't be new | 02:06 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.26.21262699v1.full found | 02:10 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: Prediction of vaccine efficacy of the Delta variant | medRxiv | 02:10 |
| LjL | hmmm "prediction" | 02:11 |
| LjL | but let's see | 02:11 |
| LjL | what, they think Pfizer is still at 95%? nothing changed? | 02:12 |
| nixonix | dont ask, it doesnt look very good study. check the graphs too at the bottom | 02:12 |
| LjL | that seems unlikely to me | 02:12 |
| nixonix | and no idea where they got their observed effectiveness. it doesnt mention | 02:12 |
| LjL | "used a previously published statistical model to predict vaccine efficacy against variants" | 02:13 |
| LjL | that's very closed to "pulled numbers from thin air" | 02:13 |
| nixonix | they had some supplementary material, but i didnt bother | 02:13 |
| LjL | in that tweet, Eric Topol says "wanes over time" in quotes sounding a bit like "ugh, have you looked at that? it KINDA wanes" | 02:15 |
| LjL | also i saw it said in the abstract that for some reason they've found *non*-COVID-19 hospitalization increasing, which may be a confounder, but looking at the graph that's right in the tweet... well, it definitely looks like a trend there | 02:15 |
| LjL | even more than the waning, since the waning has huge CI | 02:16 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/briefing/risk-breakthrough-infections-delta.html | 02:17 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nytimes.com: One in 5,000 - The New York Times | 02:17 |
| nixonix | its hard to find out the real number (and what is an infection, anyway). better is to think, maybe 80% reduced odds to get the infection, if 2nd dose is recent, remembering its delta now and lower case numbers lie in a way since lots of vaccinated with mild or no symptoms dont go to test | 02:19 |
| nixonix | and whithe their letting it rip plans, they dont even want to test all the mild cases among kids, vaccinated etc | 02:21 |
| nixonix | and with school reopenings, lots of tests are used to test those with rhino or something, leading to lower positive case ratio than what it really tells about current prevalence | 02:25 |
| nixonix | i just had a quick look on that paper topol linked, about hospitalizations. in that qatar paper i think they had something like 6 months after 2nd dose vs hospitalization it was still strong, but reduced at some later timepoint, not sure what it was but cant be more than 7-8 months prob | 02:40 |
| nixonix | if my memory serves. that would mean, pfizer with 3 weeks interval, 4 months good ve vs prc+, and 6 months vs hospitalization. then they start to wane a bit too much | 02:41 |
| nixonix | pcr+ meaning prob symptomatic. but not sure how it was done in qatar. ill check another day | 02:42 |
| -Bridgestorm- ❗ POSIBLE TSUNAMI / POSSIBLE TSUNAMI for Guerrero, Mexico! 🌊 Monitor http://www.tsunami.gov/ http://www.jma.go.jp/en/tsunami/ http://www.bom.gov.au/tsunami/ https://goo.gl/CGAt5M https://goo.gl/CuQMfg https://goo.gl/pJfbGy (earthquake.usgs.gov) | 04:01 | |
| -Bridgestorm- ❗ 🌊 Sismo! Earthquake! 6.8 Mi tremor, registered by AT,alomax, with 9 reports, 9 early, occurred 13 minutes ago (01:47:49 UTC), with a crescent moon, Guerrero, Mexico (17.07, -99.63) ± 5 km, ↓45 km likely felt 510 km away (in Acapulco, Chilpancingo, Xaltianguis, Ocotito, Kilómetro 30…) by 2.1 million people with possible tsunami (earthquake.usgs.gov) | 04:01 | |
| Brainstorm | New from Nussenzweig Lab: @NussenzweigL: New Studies Find Evidence Of 'Superhuman' Immunity To COVID-19 In Some Individuals https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/09/07/1033677208/new-studies-find-evidence-of-superhuman-immunity-to-covid-19-in-some-individuals?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social → https://is.gd/KXUcWQ | 04:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Interesting to read @Pfizer's chief scientific officer addressing dose selection of their vaccine, push for boosters, and comparison with Moderna data@FT https://www.ft.com/content/3ee3efaa-766c-42c9-baf7-9825d3e78edf by @nikasgari → https://is.gd/1r8VPY | 06:49 |
| twomoon | we need PanRonaVax and PanRonaMectin, STAT!!! | 06:50 |
| annaa_ | LjL: so what do you think of boosters? | 07:02 |
| annaa_ | I'm thinking I would not take one based on some reading | 07:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: A vaccine success in Europe that sinks in the east → https://is.gd/IWPicy | 07:10 |
| twomoon | awww ljl got his ass handed to him on reddit | 07:16 |
| twomoon | i'm getting frustrated with redditors | 07:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Worried about breakthrough infections? what vaccinated people need to know. → https://is.gd/wU7O31 | 07:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: India vaccinated over 180 million people in August, more than all the G7 nations combined → https://is.gd/IQf1Ol | 07:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: UBC student says dozens contracted COVID-19 after indoor frat party → https://is.gd/Cq86A0 | 08:13 |
| gry | why do people do indoor things | 08:15 |
| gry | i mean i know why, because they are less likely to be caught | 08:15 |
| gry | but still | 08:15 |
| frtnx_ | Tbh it always low keys hurts my feelings a little when I say something and someone in the channel immediately quits, even though the two events are rarely ever related | 08:20 |
| frtnx_ | gry: human nature. A life time of habits die hard | 08:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: India scrambles to contain potential outbreak of Nipah, a deadlier virus than COVID → https://is.gd/NZtIzQ | 08:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: Judge: Hospital Doesn’t Have to Give Patient Ivermectin: An Ohio judge ruled that a hospital does not have to give a patient the drug ivermectin as part of COVID-19 treatment because it hasn’t been proven effective, even though a doctor prescribed it. → https://is.gd/dqG9oE | 09:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: High rates of COVID-19 burnout could lead to shortage of health-care workers → https://is.gd/giK7yR | 10:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: The pandemic has set back the fight against HIV, TB and malaria → https://is.gd/HbpfJx | 10:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Life-style: ‘I gained 7 kgs post my Covid recovery’: Rubina Dilaik on learning how to love her body → https://is.gd/enzLU3 | 12:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Vaccinate or resign, Zimbabwe tells government workers → https://is.gd/kEJfAP | 13:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Opinion: Listen: A scientist-parent on heading back-to-school with Delta: This week on the "First Opinion Podcast," scientist-parent Alicia Zhou breaks down all the back-to-school anxieties around Covid-19 and how to approach them. → https://is.gd/OQOWq8 | 13:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Sanofi acquires Kadmon for $1.9 billion, adding transplant medicine drug: French drug maker Sanofi said it will acquire Kadmon Pharmaceuticals for $1.9 billion, bolstering its transplant medicines business with a newly approved treatment for graft-versus-host disease. → https://is.gd/A8OlVs | 13:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from Contagion Live: US COVID-19 Vaccine Distribution Disproportionate to Death Burden: A neighborhood-level assessment of major cities show areas impacted the most by historic COVID-19 deaths are significantly less vaccinated. → https://is.gd/iNeAgx | 13:58 |
| Raf[m] | <Brainstorm> "New from Contagion Live: US..." <- Don’t they mean it’s proportionate? The article says they are correlated | 14:07 |
| Raf[m] | I also find it misleading to blame it as “vaccine distribution” it shifts the blame to vaccine availability and that isn’t the issue. It’s vaccine uptake by those communities | 14:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from Science-Based Medicine: Variants of Interest: Keeping an eye on new variants as the pandemic simmers on. The post first appeared on Science-Based Medicine . → https://is.gd/zAKq26 | 14:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from Novavax: (news): Novavax Initiates Phase 1/2 Clinical Trial of Combination Vaccine for COVID-19 and Seasonal Influenza → https://is.gd/e6apK2 | 14:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Pharma: STAT+: Pharmalittle: Sanofi will acquire Kadmon Pharma for $1.9 billion; Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes goes on trial → https://is.gd/H63qhe | 15:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: General: COVID-19 vaccines: key facts → https://is.gd/IS5ANz | 15:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Impressive new data for real-world effectiveness (VE) of Moderna vaccine in a prospective study of >350,000 vaccinees & matched unvaccinated individuals, w/ virus sequencinghttps://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3916094VE hospitalization 96%, symptomatic infection 88%@BruxvoortKatia @KPSCalResearch → https://is.gd/0W1gpS | 16:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pro-China social media campaign expands to new countries, blames U.S. for COVID → https://is.gd/XhR18T | 17:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Pandemic lockdown tied to worse outcomes in metastatic colorectal cancer, French study says: A small new study from France is one of the first to show how cancer screening delays during early pandemic lockdowns could lead to worse outcomes. → https://is.gd/MQ1TSE | 17:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Coronavirus: Was US money used to fund risky research in China? → https://is.gd/Ak7Ca6 | 17:47 |
| nixonix | that qatar study, page 38 has tables or age groups. <60yo pfizer VE vs infection starts to get bad after 3 months. for >60 after 4 months. why this way, maybe old ppl are more careful even when vaccinated, when not-old after vaccinations are taking more chances | 18:07 |
| nixonix | vs severe, a clear reduction shows only for >60 yo after 6 months, and small sample size for that | 18:08 |
| LjL | but meanwhile our government is saying immunity lasts for 12 months so they're extending the green pass to 12 months and by implication, i guess they won't re-vaccinate most people before 12 months | 18:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from LitCovid: (news): Atypical bacterial co-infections among patients with COVID-19: a study from India. → https://is.gd/E1WPGi | 18:09 |
| nixonix | but against delta, its age groups combined, ve vs infection starts to get bad after 2 months | 18:09 |
| LjL | :( | 18:10 |
| nixonix | vs delta and severe, too little sample size to say for sure, but seems to be somewhere after 3.5 months. but maybe longer | 18:11 |
| nixonix | this was page 40 | 18:11 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.25.21262584v1.full | 18:12 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: Waning of BNT162b2 vaccine protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection in Qatar | medRxiv | 18:12 |
| nixonix | the tables are seen on pdf, so dl that | 18:12 |
| nixonix | dose interval 3 weeks i think. hopefully the protection last better with longer, but theres no confirmation for that. that uk study compared something like 6-9 weeks vs 12 weeks, and saw not much difference | 18:13 |
| nixonix | if we believe qatars results are correct, we can check if hospitalizations are increasing vs case numbers in countries that have had 30% or so vaccinated, maybe 4-6 months after that moment (pfizer and 3 weeks, and no 3rd doses) | 18:15 |
| nixonix | from case numbers its impossible to say for sure because of different noice, without proper tracking of reinfections (and even then, since those might be less willing to get tested, or are not tested for exposing or mild symptoms) | 18:16 |
| nixonix | some us states apparently do some reinfection tracking, like michigan. but how comprehensive it is in usa, prob not very | 18:19 |
| nixonix | reinfection and breakthrough. somebody said in topols twitter thread, that testers werent interested if he was vaccinated or not | 18:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid: Positive Anglesey care home staff cover shift amid shortage → https://is.gd/qhpziS | 18:20 |
| nixonix | in that qatar paper they said they test 5% of population per month or so, so they prob have large share of asymptomatic than most. in denmark they at least used to test a lot too | 18:21 |
| nixonix | every week: "Moreover, with the mass scale of PCR testing in Qatar, where about 5% of the population are tested every week, the likelihood of bias is perhaps minimized. | 18:22 |
| nixonix | from qatar paper page 26, it looks like protection for asymptomatic wanes over 5 weeks earlier than vs symptomatic. more cases were asymptomatic, so the weeks mentioned above vs infection, were a bit closer to asymptomatic infection than symptomatic | 18:26 |
| nixonix | correcting them roughly for both: <60 yo 2.5 months good protection vs asymptomatic, 3.5 months vs symptomatic. for >60 yo month longer for both (but might be behavioral difference, i think) | 18:28 |
| nixonix | but vs delta, something like this: 1.5 months vs asymptomatic, and 2.5 months vs symptomatic | 18:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: A wide-ranging pro-Chinese influence group is attempting to use social media platforms and other forums to mobilize physical protests around COVID-19 concerns in the United States → https://is.gd/ql1b6J | 18:30 |
| nixonix | qatar started to vaccinate immunosuppressed with the 3rd. no information on wider use yet | 18:43 |
| nixonix | they broke 30% for 2nd doses may 18th, under 4 months ago. so maybe not showing up in hospitalization increase yet | 18:46 |
| nixonix | uk at the same time (30%), but longer dose interval. UAE and chile (mix of different vaccines) earlier, as was usa (bad stats) | 18:51 |
| nixonix | and israel | 18:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: Here's How COVID-19 Can Affect Your Mouth: A new report shows a lost or altered sense of taste, dry mouth and sores are common among COVID-19 patients and those symptoms may last long after others disappear. → https://is.gd/ZQYokr | 18:52 |
| nixonix | Around three-quarters of all breakthrough, cases were amongst those receiving the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine rather than the Moderna vaccine, though around twice as many individuals have received the former, mainly the earliest and most vulnerable, introducing bias | 18:57 |
| nixonix | December 21, 2020, first using the BNT162b21 (Pfizer-BioNTech) mRNA vaccine,2 and three months later adding the mRNA-12733 (Moderna) | 18:57 |
| nixonix | for checking out, when waning should start to show up, this is handy: | 19:06 |
| nixonix | .title https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2021-06-17&facet=none&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=People+vaccinated+%28by+dose%29&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=PRT~ESP~URY~DNK~CHL~IRL~CAN~USA~JPN~ETH~DEU~GBR~FRA~ITA~BEL~BGR~CZE | 19:06 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From ourworldindata.org: COVID-19 Data Explorer - Our World in Data | 19:06 |
| nixonix | ~ROU~South+America~European+Union~FIN~ISL~SWE~NOR~ARG~AUS~CRI~SLV~AUT~CHE~QAT~ARE | 19:06 |
| nixonix | israel reached 30% 2nd doses feb 15. when did they notice breakthougs in hospitalizations? end of june would be 4.5 months from that (and was it already all delta then) | 19:10 |
| archpc | Hey y’all | 19:10 |
| nixonix | hi. you got rid of rona yet? | 19:11 |
| archpc | No, positive last week, long affects are kicking my ass, I feel fine other than that. My spO2 is 92 as of this morning | 19:12 |
| archpc | The positive test was expected, according to the health department | 19:12 |
| nixonix | ok, lungs are healing, great | 19:14 |
| archpc | Well, the trademark shortness of breath is horrible | 19:14 |
| archpc | I feel like I’m permanently asthmatic now | 19:14 |
| nixonix | or maybe it was that jelly, that you got rid off. better get a röntgen picture afterwards, i think they recommend around 6 months after pneumonia | 19:15 |
| archpc | Jelly? I don’t inhale my sandwiches | 19:16 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/485636 | 19:18 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.eurekalert.org: Liquid gel in COVID patients' lungs makes way | EurekAlert! | 19:18 |
| * archpc watches his dumb joke fall flat | 19:20 | |
| archpc | Good link tho, I’m reading | 19:20 |
| LjL | gee if i get covid i'll die | 19:38 |
| lastshell | how you doing archpc ? | 19:38 |
| LjL | i got 150bpm pulse just from leaning down to put on my shoes and then standing back up | 19:38 |
| LjL | had a calm walk and got some chilling cold sweat | 19:39 |
| archpc | lastshell, eh | 19:39 |
| lastshell | I recall you got covid or something last week | 19:39 |
| archpc | LjL, same, and I’m like gasping for air if I dare jog | 19:39 |
| LjL | archpc, but you actually did have covid. i have "nothing" (except for a lot of guilt about unhealthy lifestyle) | 19:39 |
| archpc | archpc, tested positive the 20th last month, got really bad for like 5 days | 19:39 |
| archpc | Heh | 19:40 |
| lastshell | LjL eat more healthy and do more exercise never is to late | 19:40 |
| archpc | ^ | 19:40 |
| LjL | it's interesting that they "expected" you to still be positive. someone else also said people routinely test positive 30 days after. but from (earlier?) studies and info that was given out etc, i recall PCR was supposed to be negative in most people after 30 days | 19:40 |
| LjL | so my paranoid side is going, are they downplaying the fact many people stay positive indefinitely? | 19:41 |
| archpc | If I’m indefinitely positive, im going to cry, I’ll be STUCK HERE | 19:41 |
| lastshell | is the long covid ? | 19:41 |
| archpc | hell yeah | 19:42 |
| LjL | lastshell, i don't know. some studies on long COVID actually looked at patients just 30 days after (after last positive? or after diagnosis? not sure) and i think dTal in particular pointed out that was ridiculously soon | 19:42 |
| archpc | i don’t know if it’s “brain fog” due to to covid or the whole lockdown thing | 19:42 |
| LjL | and it's even more ridiculously short if *most* people are still positive after 30 days... i think ecks was the one who said that | 19:42 |
| LjL | archpc, give yourself time. covid *can* leave lasting weakness, brain fog and all that. but the one thing that i know for sure won't help you is despairing about it. of course i realize (all too well) that despair is not quite something that can be switched on or off on demand, but just be aware of that | 19:44 |
| archpc | Oh I’m not, that was *slightly* dramatic | 19:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: R to @EricTopol: Here are Delta hospitalization (July-August) data for Oklahomahttps://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/covid19/documents/weekly-epi-report/2021.08.18%20Weekly%20Epi%20Report.pdf~8% are in fully vaccinated. Note the shift to the older age groups compared to the unvaccinatedh/t @MCSlab_uiuc → https://is.gd/1dHz9n | 19:57 |
| nixonix | they are just fragments showing up in pcr, in most cases | 20:10 |
| nixonix | chronic viral infection, over 3 months. persisting, 1-3 months. might depend on country | 20:10 |
| nixonix | meaning symptoms, not actual viral infection left (necessarily) | 20:11 |
| LjL | how do you know they're just fragments? i've heard this thing as "we don't know that they're live virus, they MAY just be fragments" repeated so many times, i know you usually research your stuff, but isn't that "may" just going away by force of repetition? | 20:12 |
| nixonix | i dont have a source, other than i think i read something like that long time ago (:. ill check that some day, what is known about persisting live virus after acute symptoms | 20:13 |
| LjL | okay | 20:13 |
| nixonix | but this is from finnish hc chiefs in media: 2-3 days of acute symptoms, and it shouldnt be infective anymore, usually | 20:14 |
| LjL | i just saw a really strange piece of news. i know news.com.au isn't the greatest source but i can only say "what even?!" to this <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Six-beer limit for homes in strict lockdown → https://is.gd/H47KvM | 20:14 |
| nixonix | and another: theres no on/off, the infectivity reduces with time (or probability of it) | 20:14 |
| LjL | aside from the alcohol per se, why would residents under lockdown have their deliveries *searched by police* for alcohol, gifts or whatever? | 20:14 |
| LjL | does China even do this | 20:14 |
| nixonix | yuri said, ofc long time ago with less information, that couple days of acute symptoms, and prob not infective | 20:15 |
| nixonix | *after | 20:15 |
| LjL | i wonder whether infective == live though | 20:16 |
| nixonix | and lately (not sure if believing, when their current plan is letting it burn through), that just some slight cough afterwards that continue, doesnt count. so wouldnt likely be infective anymore, if other symptoms have been cleared a few days earlier | 20:17 |
| nixonix | infective is live, but a bit living virus isnt likely to infect other people, in most cases. but i think you can never be 100% sure, when it can stay in body if no decent immune response (check that mouse study i linked here) | 20:18 |
| LjL | since you mentioned yuriwho anyway... time to restore the topic, i guess. so for anyone who knew yuriwho and didn't already know about this, to the best of my knowledge (which has been passed on by various people, i don't have a direct source), yuriwho died unexpectedly, around a month ago. | 20:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from Shane Crotty: @profshanecrotty: Wonderfully written and thoughtful immune system and COVID vaccine explanations by @KatherineJWu https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/waning-immunity-not-crisis-right-now/619965/ → https://is.gd/97VGXE | 20:19 |
| nixonix | i didnt know that. damn | 20:19 |
| nixonix | i remember he said several estimates, and they proved to be right, i noticed during this a bit over a year. only those vaccines, we got them a bit earlier, or some people got, than 12-18 months since feb-march, that was his estimate | 20:21 |
| LjL | and he was definitely betting on the mRNA ones, unlike the EU initially | 20:22 |
| LjL | he said he'd be getting Moderna if he could choose, and i'd say that's still what i'd get if i could choose | 20:22 |
| LjL | he had some conference calls on Discord where he talked about COVID and then took questions. first and only time i ever used Discord | 20:23 |
| nixonix | he also thought about small molecule drugs (with very early information, or based on educated guessing), that EIDD-2801 and nafamostat looked the most promising. way over a year ago. the jury is still out, but EIDD-2801 trials are going on afaik | 20:23 |
| nixonix | aka molnupiravir. currently the best antivirals seem to be some monoclonal antibodies, but those above are not tested through yet | 20:24 |
| LjL | EIDD-2801 doesn't ring a bell for me, nafamostat only remotely. i guess i've never paid a lot of attention on therapeutics for some reasons. maybe because i didn't want to think about the possibility of getting it, or just because there seemed to be so many drugs being trialled with little result | 20:24 |
| LjL | or perhaps just because their names are so odd | 20:24 |
| nixonix | eidd-2801 is (probably) error catastrophe type of drug, inhibiting exon proof-reading | 20:26 |
| nixonix | and its oral. while nafamostat is an iv version of camostat, which should be 10x more potent. tmprss2 blocker | 20:27 |
| nixonix | he was (if the rumor is true, hopefully not) around 65 if i recall | 20:29 |
| nixonix | and he said that 12-18 months, if everything goes right. maybe he thought FDA would keep that 6 months safety data requirement, and other countries would do the same | 20:34 |
| nixonix | some people said, some phases like trial starting dates, could have been accelerated from what happened. maybe starting production earlier, before approval, opening the safety data just for that decision earlier (pfizer delayed it to the monday after us prez election, while they got enough deaths in vax and placebo arms awhile earlier), etc | 20:36 |
| nixonix | usa used money earlier, not sure if it was committed whatever the trial results (they had that warp speed, but pfizer didnt participate in it). but eu delayed its decision bargaining for cheaper price. it wouldnt be too hard to calculate how many unnecessary deaths it cost, and how much money saved per death | 20:41 |
| nixonix | sure organ damages etc may turn out to be way more costly in the future | 20:42 |
| twomoon | damn, hope organ damage doesn't crop up later | 20:49 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00558-2/fulltext | 20:51 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.thelancet.com: Hospitalisation among vaccine breakthrough COVID-19 infections - The Lancet Infectious Diseases | 20:51 |
| nixonix | some comparison between vaccines by severity. supplemental material figure C. small sample though, and no information on time since the 2nd dose | 20:52 |
| nixonix | spoiler: doesnt look good for pfizer | 20:53 |
| nixonix | straight link to that supplementary appendix: https://www.thelancet.com/cms/10.1016/S1473-3099(21)00558-2/attachment/43d2762c-ba0c-44f0-8c51-547be6f57d71/mmc1.pdf | 20:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid: Boris Johnson concerned over unvaccinated hospital patients → https://is.gd/cz2N0w | 21:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: COVID-19 Scan for Sep 08, 2021: High COVID vaccine protection CPAP therapy for COVID-19 → https://is.gd/KyAwUN | 21:12 |
| nixonix | "Continuous positive airway pressure therapy (CPAP), which is used for respiratory failure, may not benefit COVID-19 patients with severe disease who are not likely to benefit from invasive mechanical ventilation (nIMV), according to a study today in EClinicalMedicine. The researchers say CPAP is often used outside intensive therapy and | 21:15 |
| nixonix | high-dependency units | 21:15 |
| nixonix | so what would you do to somebody with rona, when pulse oxymeter says 83%, given anything that money can buy is available? | 21:17 |
| de-facto | helium oxygen high pressure room? | 21:18 |
| de-facto | like what they do with divers? | 21:19 |
| de-facto | because nitrogen dissolves in blood and can bubble if pressure is lowered, hence helium instead of nitrogen | 21:19 |
| de-facto | and high pressure oxygen | 21:19 |
| de-facto | plus treatment against methemoglobin | 21:19 |
| de-facto | what was it? methylenblue? | 21:19 |
| de-facto | or that enzyme | 21:20 |
| nixonix | yeah but if they dont benefit from CPAP, even when severe but not in state that they might need ventilation | 21:22 |
| twomoon | Cpap with concentrated oxygen | 21:23 |
| nixonix | sure stuff like antiviral early etc, but no benefits from fixing the lack of oxygen? id like to protect my brain and organs, whatever that study claimed... | 21:23 |
| de-facto | not CPAP but pressure chamber for whole body | 21:23 |
| twomoon | i would try to make a custom setup using CPAP with an oxygen concentrator machine | 21:23 |
| ecks | maybe rectal ventilation https://massivesci.com/articles/rectal-breathing-oxygen-enema-ventilators/ | 21:23 |
| nixonix | no rectal probes for me | 21:23 |
| de-facto | problem: pressure chamber is not accessible for treatment | 21:24 |
| de-facto | so i guess its a nogo | 21:24 |
| nixonix | ecks i read something like one icu nurse can take care of max 2 patients. american article i think. while in finland: https://www.verkkouutiset.fi/ylilaakarin-pysayttava-laskelma-nain-koronapotilaat-ylikuormittavat-tehohoidon/?ref=rns_tw | 21:26 |
| nixonix | so are there different types of icu's - like icu light or something, which need less experienced icu nurses, when those might be just ordinary hospital beds in finland perhaps | 21:27 |
| nixonix | https://www.verkkouutiset.fi/tehohoidon-ylilaakari-tilittaa-koronapotilas-on-kaikkein-vaativin/ | 21:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: If the Mu variant (B.1.621) is the most immune evasive we've seen in the pandemic, as a lab study preprint suggests, then why is it being displaced by Delta? [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/mAC3IQ | 21:33 |
| nixonix | delta more transmissible among those with no immunity? the same like with SA variant | 21:34 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-846197/v1 | 21:38 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.researchsquare.com: CD8 T cells and antibodies drive SARS-CoV-2 evolution in chronic infection | Research Square | 21:38 |
| nixonix | "Selection pressure imposed by CD8 T-cell responses is a major driving force for viral adaptation in other viral infections such as HIV | 21:38 |
| nixonix | Our results show that selective pressure by CD8 T cells shapes SARS-CoV-2 evolution in the setting of immunosuppression. In our case, CD8 T-cell escape was initiated prior to antibody escape, and prior to administration of convalescent plasma. Subsequent antibody escape may have been facilitated by impaired cellular immunity | 21:38 |
| nixonix | CD8 T cells specific for epitopes from structural and non-structural proteins of a virus may functionally complement each other, since they recognize cells at different stages and contexts of infection20. In particular, CD8 T cells that recognize epitopes from regulatory proteins expressed early in virus-infected cells may be able to eliminate such | 21:39 |
| nixonix | cells before virions can be produced | 21:39 |
| nixonix | convalescent plasma use for immunosuppressed patients may produce immune evasion variants | 21:41 |
| nixonix | also if those regulatory proteins are conserved and similar in other hcovs, cd8 may have a big part in clearing the virus in early state (despite if there is superantigen around furin site or not) | 21:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19: 12 to 15-year-olds to get 'Final Say' over COVID jab if disagreement with parent occurs → https://is.gd/O0RXFb | 21:45 |
| nixonix | .title https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3916094 | 21:56 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From papers.ssrn.com: Real-World Effectiveness of the mRNA-1273 Vaccine Against COVID-19: Interim Results from a Prospective Observational Cohort Study by Katia Bruxvoort, Lina S. Sy, Lei Qian, Bradley K. Ackerson, Yi Luo, [...] | 21:56 |
| nixonix | 3 graphs on the 2 last pages. VE vs +diagnosis around 70% at 5 months, and over 90% vs hospitalization. partly delta | 21:57 |
| nixonix | if moderna has neut titers around double to pfizer in the beginning (with help of 4 weeks vs 3), and similar decay rate, the protection vs infection should last around 68 days longer with it. vs hospitalization, when comparing to qatars small sample results, looks about the same. ab driven too? | 22:00 |
| nixonix | meaning, looks about similar difference, couple months longer with moderna (at least, migh be even more), vs hospitalization | 22:02 |
| nixonix | cd8 cells wane fast anyway. so are we over with the idea that killer t-cells save us from hospitalization? | 22:03 |
| nixonix | say nay, if youre not over | 22:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: WHO extends moratorium on booster COVID vaccine doses: Lisa Schnirring | News Editor | CIDRAP News Sep 08, 2021 Global COVID-19 cases and deaths remain at a high plateau, with the Americas as a hot spot region. → https://is.gd/FEIE4W | 22:28 |
| pwr22 | Lol, like anyone is going to start listening to the WHO at this point | 22:34 |
| pwr22 | 🙄 | 22:34 |
| de-facto | we need more production rate | 22:39 |
| * de-facto hates to sound like a broken record | 22:40 | |
| de-facto | they should make a moratorium on that | 22:40 |
| de-facto | because we need updates sooner or later, hence the production capacity for everyone worldwide | 22:41 |
| de-facto | https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/#approved | 22:42 |
| de-facto | .title | 22:42 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From covid19.trackvaccines.org: Vaccines – COVID19 Vaccine Tracker | 22:42 |
| de-facto | many new ones in the pipeline there | 22:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from Contagion Live: Flu Shots After Myocardial Infarction May Reduce Cardiovascular Event Risk: Past research has observed links between cardiovascular disease and influenza infection. Vaccination may benefit at-risk patients. → https://is.gd/i5s5BP | 22:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: US data show child COVID-19 cases rising exponentially: Stephanie Soucheray | News Reporter | CIDRAP News Sep 08, 2021 For the first time, children account for more than a quarter of new weekly COVID-19 cases. → https://is.gd/EgwkQr | 23:00 |
| * twomoon needs PanRonaMectin | 23:18 | |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1435715570402402306 krhm, whats wrong with pfizer? | 23:28 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): "✓ Boosters start immediately for ≥ age 60, HCW if past 5-6 months w/ Pfizer vax ✓ #1 priority: universal #SARSCoV2 vaccine to override all variants; nasal vaccine ✓ Green [...] | 23:28 |
| nixonix | i only now had a look on that mu paper. it seems with that neutralizing, immunity from vaccination lasts maybe half of that it does against delta, if not a bit less. so it depends on immunity level in population, would delta or mu spread faster | 23:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: A 6-point Covid plan is being announced by @POTUS My plan:✓Ample supply rapid home tests & medical grade masks provided free to all households (daily use: schools)✓National Covid daily tracking & posting w/ hospitalization data:💉, timing, age, prior Covid, 🦠genomics, etc → https://is.gd/HggJV4 | 23:44 |
| nixonix | but maybe a bit over half, if the immunity is from vaccination. fold reduction ratios are different, convalescent vs pfizer vax | 23:44 |
| nixonix | i wonder what kind of accessory protein mutations it has, more similar to alpha than delta has? how has it evolved, from P.1 or something like that, or from alpha? | 23:46 |
| nixonix | i was thinking that something like uk variant with E484K would take over, but those findings were not common. and then came delta | 23:48 |
| nixonix | do they use convalescent plasma together with steroids in those countries, where new circulating variants emerge? in india, south america, SA | 23:52 |
| nixonix | they could have steroids in plasma too, that was used for the convalescent patient | 23:59 |
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