| stovepipe | fsmithred: latest iso? newer than march 13? | 01:38 |
|---|---|---|
| fsmithred | stovepipe, there's a set of beta2 isos that haven't been officially released yet. I think they have some of the same problems as the beta1. | 01:57 |
| fsmithred | did you run into problems with the first betas? | 01:57 |
| stovepipe | yeah i mentioned the locale problem some time ago | 01:58 |
| stovepipe | also grub still says debian | 01:58 |
| stovepipe | but thats all ive noticed | 01:58 |
| stovepipe | not exactly extensive testing... | 01:59 |
| fsmithred | grub says debian for secure boot | 02:01 |
| fsmithred | grub-efi-amd64-signed | 02:01 |
| fsmithred | if you're using grub-pc, you can just change /etc/os-release to say ID=devuan | 02:02 |
| fsmithred | or else change it in /etc/default/grub | 02:03 |
| stovepipe | just something i noticed in my virtualbox test install | 02:03 |
| fsmithred | if uefi, replace the signed package with grub-efi-amd64 | 02:03 |
| stovepipe | heh that wont fix the iso! | 02:04 |
| fsmithred | I mention all this because I know I'm not the only one annoyed by it. | 02:04 |
| fsmithred | That is not going to change for beowulf. | 02:04 |
| fsmithred | maybe for chimaera, but we need to see what breaks when we change it back | 02:04 |
| stovepipe | how far away is release or what problem areas are there still | 02:05 |
| fsmithred | problem is getting the bugs out of the installer isos | 02:05 |
| fsmithred | beowulf itself is ready | 02:05 |
| fsmithred | has been for some time | 02:06 |
| stovepipe | anything specific? | 02:07 |
| stovepipe | i have lots of random hardware around | 02:07 |
| stovepipe | been meaning to install i386 on my old athlon XP laptop | 02:07 |
| stovepipe | fsmithred: so i can go ahead and put beowulf on my workstation without expecting any goofiness at release time? | 02:11 |
| fsmithred | correct | 02:12 |
| stovepipe | finally ryzen vega support heh | 02:13 |
| stovepipe | ive had artix on there for a while for gaming dual boot | 02:13 |
| fsmithred | don't try to use the netinstall iso for an offline install. You need a mirror. | 02:13 |
| fsmithred | and you might need to run 'dpkg-reconfigure locales' in the installed system. | 02:13 |
| stovepipe | heh yeah ive been through that already | 02:14 |
| fsmithred | seen the release notes at beta.devuan.org? | 02:14 |
| stovepipe | nope | 02:14 |
| fsmithred | there are a few new tricky things | 02:14 |
| fsmithred | um | 02:14 |
| fsmithred | I think there on the downloads page | 02:14 |
| stovepipe | so far only fiddling with a vm | 02:15 |
| fsmithred | https://files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/Release_notes.txt | 02:15 |
| stovepipe | i'll look more closely when setting it up for real | 02:15 |
| stovepipe | tnx | 02:15 |
| fsmithred | yw | 02:15 |
| fsmithred | couple of important changes near the beginning of that | 02:16 |
| passstab | "bluetoothctl show" returns "no default controller available" | 06:03 |
| passstab | This is a system76 computer, so it should be supported. | 06:08 |
| ullet | what is system76 | 06:10 |
| passstab | A manufacturer of linux computers. | 06:11 |
| passstab | I don't remeber what modal it is. | 06:12 |
| hemimaniac | ullet: system is like the trophy of everything computer, the appitome if you will, it like trovalds and nasa agreed to a kid | 06:12 |
| hemimaniac | and system76 was still better | 06:12 |
| ullet | i like the name | 06:12 |
| passstab | How do I find the BT chipset? | 06:13 |
| hemimaniac | passstab: system76 offers lifetime support, you could get a current iso and compare them to see what they did | 06:13 |
| hemimaniac | passstab: a full inxi or lspci should give it up | 06:17 |
| passstab | https://paste.debian.net/1142031/ | 06:18 |
| passstab | https://paste.debian.net/1142032/ | 06:19 |
| passstab | Does that mean there isn't bluetooth? | 06:21 |
| passstab | I haven't tryed to use it before, the only indication of it I see is the keyboard shortcut, but maybe that is for other modals. | 06:22 |
| hemimaniac | passstab: what does inxi -Fxxxrzc0 spit out? | 06:25 |
| passstab | https://paste.debian.net/1142033/ | 06:29 |
| passstab | hemimaniac, | 06:29 |
| hemimaniac | passstab: does rfkill spit out anything? | 06:34 |
| passstab | https://paste.debian.net/1142034/ | 06:35 |
| passstab | I just remebered, the BIOS allowed me to enable/disable BT. | 06:36 |
| hemimaniac | oof | 06:36 |
| passstab | (yes, I enabled it already) | 06:36 |
| passstab | point is, it should be here. | 06:37 |
| passstab | unless that also is a vestage of other modals. | 06:38 |
| hemimaniac | one last thing what lsmod | grep bluetooth give you? | 06:38 |
| passstab | https://paste.debian.net/1142035/ | 06:39 |
| passstab | hemimaniac, | 06:39 |
| hemimaniac | paste is not loading,, if you enabled bluetooth in biosthen fully rebooted and hot the key/switch for it it should of listed in one of the outputs, only thing I can think of is the linux-firmware pkg is missing or it locked off, you could try https://support.system76.com/articles/bluetooth/ << passstab | 06:45 |
| passstab | bluetooth 557056 7 bnep | 06:46 |
| passstab | rfkill 24576 5 bluetooth,cfg80211 | 06:46 |
| passstab | crc16 16384 2 bluetooth,ext4 | 06:46 |
| passstab | OK, Thanks | 06:46 |
| passstab | hemimaniac, will that linux-firmware pkg work with ASCII? | 06:49 |
| hemimaniac | there should be one in the repo for ascii | 06:50 |
| hemimaniac | good luck | 06:51 |
| passstab | Thanks, stay safe | 06:55 |
| stovepipe | fsmithred: lol shit still no ryzen vega support | 11:09 |
| stovepipe | assumed too much | 11:09 |
| stovepipe | locked in now | 11:09 |
| stovepipe | i see this https://wiki.debian.org/AMDGPUDriverOnStretchAndBuster2 | 11:09 |
| stovepipe | i guess i knew when there was no graphical install option | 11:10 |
| stovepipe | no 4.20 kernel on 20200420 | 11:11 |
| fsmithred | stovepipe, that's too much to read. The reason graphical install option is missing is because it takes up too much space. | 12:01 |
| fsmithred | if you need a newer kernel than 4.19, I have an unofficial iso with backports kernel you could try. | 12:01 |
| stovepipe | oh, the same iso gave me graphical install on virtualbox | 12:02 |
| stovepipe | i thought the ryzen vega needed >4.17 | 12:02 |
| stovepipe | at one point i tested some live distros to verify | 12:03 |
| stovepipe | i'm leaving it for now, will look closer tomorrow | 12:03 |
| fsmithred | which iso had graphical install? | 12:03 |
| fsmithred | https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/refracta-test-oblx_5.3bpo-20200105_0440.iso | 12:03 |
| stovepipe | same march13 netinstall | 12:03 |
| fsmithred | ^^^ that one has 5.3 kernel | 12:04 |
| stovepipe | didnt it? | 12:04 |
| fsmithred | I didn't thik it was on the netinstlal. | 12:04 |
| stovepipe | graphical install in virtualbox | 12:04 |
| stovepipe | be back tomorrow | 12:05 |
| fsmithred | ok | 12:05 |
| xrogaan | stovepipe: you want kernel 5.4, from backports | 13:00 |
| xrogaan | graphical install do not need to support whatever fancy GPU you have, it's supposed to use standard stuff | 13:02 |
| xrogaan | like vesa | 13:02 |
| stovepipe | never cared about graphical install | 13:02 |
| stovepipe | i just should have known right away | 13:02 |
| stovepipe | drm 4.17 and later is required for the ryzen vega raven ridge yadda yadda | 13:03 |
| stovepipe | obv 5+ will work | 13:03 |
| xrogaan | You should have done research before buying any kind of hardware. That's the state of linux. | 13:03 |
| stovepipe | i was assuming that the beowulf 4.19 would work, after having tested random live distros with >4.17 | 13:04 |
| stovepipe | haha really | 13:04 |
| stovepipe | no i can make it work if i want to | 13:04 |
| stovepipe | i just want it to work with devuan | 13:04 |
| stovepipe | son | 13:04 |
| xrogaan | For AMDGPU, the latest kernel is usually what you want to go for. AMD release their drivers as opensource, with some core things being proprietary. | 13:04 |
| stovepipe | "the state of linus" hardware has always been better than windows | 13:05 |
| stovepipe | but i digress | 13:05 |
| stovepipe | youre not saying anything | 13:05 |
| xrogaan | Don't misunderstand what I'm trying to say. | 13:05 |
| stovepipe | 4.17 | 13:05 |
| stovepipe | and higher | 13:06 |
| stovepipe | works | 13:06 |
| stovepipe | 4.19 out of the box with beowulf apparently is not working at this time | 13:06 |
| stovepipe | i will make it work | 13:06 |
| stovepipe | no suggestions necessary | 13:06 |
| xrogaan | You could go out and buy hardware which will not work under linux, because no driver has been written for it. If you want to buy something, you need to make sure that the piece of hardware is supported before the purchase otherwise you'll end up with a very costly paperweight. | 13:06 |
| stovepipe | no point in blowing it all out of proportion | 13:07 |
| stovepipe | haha | 13:07 |
| stovepipe | go away | 13:07 |
| gnarface | stovepipe: there's a way to provide additional packages (like a newer kernel) directly to the installer on a separate usb key, you just have to know what path to put them in | 13:12 |
| gnarface | (it moves around, over the years) | 13:12 |
| gnarface | for the AMDGPU hardware, you'll not only need a new enough kernel, you'll also need to get the non-free firmware for it | 13:13 |
| stovepipe | like i said before, i'm not looking at it until tomorrow | 13:13 |
| Wonka | 13:06:26 < stovepipe> i will make it work | 13:14 |
| Wonka | 13:06:32 < stovepipe> no suggestions necessary | 13:14 |
| stovepipe | ^ | 13:14 |
| stovepipe | i was just mocking my own expectations | 13:14 |
| stovepipe | still dont have anywhere near support in freebsd | 13:15 |
| stovepipe | still using scfb | 13:16 |
| stovepipe | i'm sure fbdev is fine also | 13:16 |
| stovepipe | but i would rather play overload in linux than windows | 13:16 |
| stovepipe | i can blow artix back on there anytime | 13:17 |
| stovepipe | linux is my new gaming dual boot, windows is used as little as possible | 13:18 |
| stovepipe | artix was 5.5 iirc | 13:19 |
| specing | play libre games | 13:20 |
| stovepipe | from that link it sounds like it just works with 4.20 | 13:20 |
| fsmithred | O | 13:21 |
| fsmithred | I'm not clear on what the problem is. Were you expecting the proprietary amd driver to be installed by default? | 13:21 |
| stovepipe | amdgpu isnt proprietary | 13:22 |
| stovepipe | ? | 13:22 |
| fsmithred | oh | 13:22 |
| fsmithred | the link you provided says to download from amd | 13:22 |
| stovepipe | it "just works" out of the box on most distros in the past year or so i thought | 13:22 |
| stovepipe | from what i tested | 13:22 |
| fsmithred | did you try the desktop-live? firmware-amd-graphics is installed in that | 13:23 |
| stovepipe | fsmithred: yeah thats what i found after realizing it isnt working with beowulf | 13:23 |
| stovepipe | heh just at first glance | 13:23 |
| stovepipe | again i'm supposed to not work on it until "tommorrow | 13:23 |
| stovepipe | fsmithred: no i installed with netinstall | 13:23 |
| stovepipe | first clue was no graphical install | 13:24 |
| fsmithred | did you select expert install and included non-free software? | 13:24 |
| fsmithred | graphical install is irrelevant | 13:24 |
| fsmithred | we left that out because it makes the isos too big | 13:24 |
| stovepipe | i know bot normally its available | 13:24 |
| stovepipe | normally graphical install is an option | 13:25 |
| stovepipe | so taht was my first clue | 13:25 |
| fsmithred | yeah, up through ascii. Every release gets bigger and fatter. | 13:25 |
| stovepipe | no i did not select expert | 13:25 |
| stovepipe | just first casual run | 13:25 |
| stovepipe | never meant to be talking about it like this | 13:26 |
| stovepipe | but people dont read anymore! | 13:26 |
| stovepipe | [07:14:01] <Wonka> 13:06:26 < stovepipe> i will make it work | 13:26 |
| stovepipe | [07:14:01] <Wonka> 13:06:32 < stovepipe> no suggestions necessary | 13:26 |
| stovepipe | [07:14:06] <stovepipe> ^ | 13:26 |
| stovepipe | fsmithred: wait, so youre saying that there is no more graphical install at all? | 13:29 |
| fsmithred | right | 13:29 |
| stovepipe | i must have been installing 2.1 on something recently | 13:29 |
| fsmithred | maybe | 13:29 |
| stovepipe | but i thought i remembered the evil red | 13:30 |
| fsmithred | I did see it on at least one mini.iso that got built. | 13:30 |
| stovepipe | i need a vacation | 13:30 |
| fsmithred | red background on the boot screen | 13:30 |
| stovepipe | yeah but i'm remembering it on a gui screen | 13:30 |
| fsmithred | the debian-installer graphical install isn't a real graphical install anyway. | 13:30 |
| stovepipe | bbl | 13:30 |
| fsmithred | bye | 13:30 |
| stovepipe | :) | 13:31 |
| nemo | fsmithred: ugh. issuing ctrl-alt-f1 to the vm in qemu seems waaaaay more involved than vbox | 15:26 |
| nemo | tried hunting up a stackoverflow before poking you and found a bunch of methods that didn't work | 15:26 |
| fsmithred | I haven't figured out how to do it | 15:26 |
| nemo | one that probably would work but seemed really tedious | 15:26 |
| nemo | boo | 15:26 |
| fsmithred | in the installer, you just select 'open shell' from the menu | 15:26 |
| nemo | there's a gtk ui but it seems to have nothing helpful | 15:27 |
| fsmithred | outside that, I don't know. | 15:27 |
| nemo | fsmithred: yeah. I was just trying to launch something outside the shell. no worries | 15:27 |
| fsmithred | outside where? | 15:27 |
| nemo | fsmithred: er. outside of X | 15:28 |
| fsmithred | did you figure out networking enough to be able to ssh in? | 15:28 |
| nemo | fsmithred: basically, I wanted to ssh to host in a way that would not distract the interviewee | 15:28 |
| fsmithred | oh, right. outside X | 15:29 |
| nemo | fsmithred: oh, tunnelling out is np | 15:29 |
| nemo | fsmithred: it's doing it in a nice fashion | 15:29 |
| nemo | might have to script something but was hoping for lazy vt method | 15:29 |
| fsmithred | if you find it, let me know please | 15:29 |
| nemo | 😃 | 15:29 |
| fsmithred | I thought I did it once in the past, but maybe I'm not remembering right | 15:29 |
| fsmithred | was probably vbox | 15:29 |
| fsmithred | if the interviewees will have internet access to the VM, you should be able to run ssh server on it and just ssh in a terminal | 15:32 |
| fsmithred | for "console" access to the vm | 15:32 |
| nemo | fsmithred: what I was trying to do was avoiding having to setup bridging which is tedious and semi-permanent, for something I will use for like... half an hour at a time, maybe once or twice a month | 15:45 |
| nemo | fsmithred: so... I was sshing out of the VM to holepunch | 15:45 |
| nemo | fsmithred: now, I can run that ssh in background with a sleep, but I usually like to leave it active since it's more informative | 15:46 |
| nemo | fsmithred: but that means leaving an X terminal open unless I was doing it in a VT | 15:46 |
| nemo | but I might just have to background it | 15:46 |
| onefang | tmux or screen might help? | 15:46 |
| fsmithred | I always have a terminal open on at least one desktop | 15:47 |
| nemo | onefang: hm. not a bad idea | 15:47 |
| nemo | onefang: I can forward 2 ports then reattach to the tmux from the outside in to keep an eye on it | 15:47 |
| nemo | thanks | 15:47 |
| nemo | fsmithred: yeah, I just didn't want to needlessly confuse someone entering a strange system | 15:47 |
| fsmithred | oh, you mean a terminal open in the vm. Right. | 15:47 |
| fsmithred | don't want to scare them. | 15:48 |
| nemo | fsmithred: right now VM is gonna have 'sactly 3 things open. Pluma (a half decent "friendly" editor) with the file I want them to edit, DBVisualizer for the SQL bit (♥ dbvisualizer), and a web browser for DDG/Google/StackOverflowing | 15:49 |
| fsmithred | sounds good | 15:49 |
| nemo | IMO people should always have access to internet. it's how we do all our tech work these days. we can't be expected to store trivia in our brains | 15:49 |
| nemo | main skill is being able to locate the relevant knowledge and assemble it | 15:50 |
| fsmithred | maybe the crazy setup I have for bridge might actually work for you | 15:50 |
| fsmithred | I can change runlevels to switch from the funky bridged ethernet to using wicd (for wireless in my case) | 15:51 |
| fsmithred | both runlevels are desktop, so I don't see anything happening when I do it. No disruption. | 15:51 |
| fsmithred | and I have to manually ifup/down br0 | 15:52 |
| nemo | hm. if you have a script or something, please share, it probably has useful hints if I want to use qemu more in future, which will probably happen | 15:52 |
| fsmithred | I have some notes, and I do have a script that I use to start a VM | 15:53 |
| fsmithred | requires yad (like zenity) for a graphical frontend | 15:53 |
| fsmithred | but if you only have one vm, you only need a one-line command to start it | 15:53 |
| mason | nemo: Can you summarize your bridging issue? Got a meeting coming up, but bridging should be trivially simple. | 15:54 |
| fsmithred | I can PM you less than 10 lines that might possibly be enough | 15:54 |
| mason | nemo: here: https://bpaste.net/5IDQ | 15:55 |
| mason | Anything more complex than that is incorrect. | 15:55 |
| fsmithred | mason, you don't need to use brctl with that?? | 15:56 |
| fsmithred | or tunctl? | 15:56 |
| mason | Not on De*an. | 15:56 |
| mason | Or shouldn't have to. | 15:57 |
| mason | Yeah, my Beowulf hypervisors use this with ifupdown and don't need those, although it's nice to have brctl to inspect things. | 15:57 |
| fsmithred | and then what network options do you use in qemu? | 15:57 |
| mason | fsmithred: Half a sec, digging. | 15:58 |
| fsmithred | thanks | 15:58 |
| mason | fsmithred: So, I use libvirt, which has an interface section with <source bridge='br0'/>. The actual qemu-system-x86_64 invocation references hostnet0, and I need to find where that's mapped to br0. | 16:01 |
| mason | Rather, each VM definition has such a section. | 16:01 |
| nemo | mason: it's probably just my lack of familiarity | 16:01 |
| nemo | mason: I can probably share bridge with all VMs, it's not like I plan to launch more than one at a time | 16:01 |
| mason | nemo: I just have one bridge per hypervisor and share it with all the VMs. Utterly simple and works well, but if you're not using libvirt I need to make sure we're not missing any moving pieces you'll need. | 16:02 |
| nemo | mason: just in past it involved a bunch of complicated commands tap/tun stuff and then more complexity to explain to the VM what to use, and I still ended up needing to create routes and screwing *that* up | 16:02 |
| ullet | fun times | 16:02 |
| mason | nemo: Yeah, ifupdown is way more pleasant than that. | 16:02 |
| nemo | mason: at present I'm literally just running 1 VM using the qemu command fsmithred gave me, and I plan to copy and paste your snippet into the relevant network config file once I'm sure I have *that* located ☺ | 16:03 |
| nemo | mason: then, hopefully I can just bounce net setup and... then the magic is how to tell this qemu command to use the bridge I guess | 16:03 |
| mason | nemo: If you want ease of use, the libvirt stuff exists for that. | 16:04 |
| nemo | never heard of it. guess I have to RTFM | 16:04 |
| mason | nemo: Look at virt-manager as an intro. Easiest way to build up new VMs, IMHO. | 16:04 |
| nemo | and yeah, I used to use virtualbox just because all this stuff tended to have a pretty gui entry | 16:05 |
| nemo | and it wasn't like I was planning to be a sysadmin fulltime ☺ | 16:05 |
| mason | nemo: IIRC you were looking at/for vbox before, and if so this will seem familiar. | 16:05 |
| mason | Yar, virt-manager is a pretty GUI for doing itk. | 16:05 |
| nemo | 'k | 16:06 |
| nemo | I'm almost positive I'm not going to have time to play with this today though | 16:06 |
| nemo | 3 more meetings, plus regular work deadlines, plus this interview ☹ | 16:07 |
| mason | nemo: In a meeting now. Almost missed the start of it. :P | 16:07 |
| nemo | hehe. I've done that before. | 16:07 |
| nemo | anyway installing virt-manager | 16:07 |
| mason | But make a noise if you revisit this. Been using it for a dog's age on my Debian (now Devuan) hypervisors. | 16:08 |
| nemo | kk | 16:09 |
| nemo | heh. | 16:13 |
| nemo | wtf @ most recent feedback | 16:13 |
| nemo | oups. sorry wrong channel | 16:13 |
| nemo | that was supposed to be in #hedgewars | 16:13 |
| nemo | we get the most bizarre complaints | 16:13 |
| nemo | this one appears to be from someone who bought the game on some CD or something from somebody and is not happy | 16:13 |
| ullet | :) | 16:14 |
| ullet | hedgewars is great but this has lower learning curve http://ziz.gp2x.de/hase/ | 16:15 |
| ullet | i can debify that but i have no idea how to get it accepted into debian-games | 16:16 |
| nemo | ullet: heh. I'm obviously invested in hedgewars since I've been contributing code to it for past 11+ years | 16:17 |
| nemo | ullet: it definitely has a learning curve but that's hard to avoid 'cause everyone keeps wanting to add more variations of gameplay | 16:17 |
| ullet | hedgewars has an active community and that's great | 16:18 |
| ullet | i think there's a place for simpler artillery shooters too, though. have you tried hase nemo? | 16:18 |
| ullet | it's a little gem that nobody seems to have heard of | 16:19 |
| ullet | except the openpandora community | 16:19 |
| buZz | oo i got a openpandora somewhere | 16:26 |
| buZz | i love me some OMAP hw | 16:26 |
| buZz | :D | 16:26 |
| ullet | mhm. too bad there wasn't a consensus for devuan on pyra | 16:27 |
| ullet | but it's ok, it'll work | 16:27 |
| ullet | with devuan | 16:27 |
| nemo | ullet: heh. I don't even have time to play the stuff that's up on my list like Hedgewars these days | 16:27 |
| nemo | ullet: kids etc ☺ | 16:27 |
| nemo | ullet: actually, daughter is getting into computer games but she's not a fan of making things go boom | 16:28 |
| nemo | ullet: so mostly just minecraft and stardew valley. | 16:28 |
| ullet | with increasing years it gets more difficult to feel rewarded by games that have no real world value | 16:28 |
| specing | nemo: no minetest ? :/ | 16:29 |
| nemo | specing: hah. | 16:29 |
| ullet | i enjoy getting things running | 16:29 |
| nemo | specing: I could try I suppose | 16:29 |
| ullet | and finding where the performance bottleneck is | 16:29 |
| nemo | specing: but she likes a filled out world | 16:29 |
| specing | a "filled out world"? | 16:30 |
| nemo | specing: https://betteranimalsplus.com this is what she's using as a mod | 16:30 |
| specing | I don't know what the addon landscape is right now in minetest | 16:30 |
| nemo | minetest is great for building but doesn't have a lot of mobs yet | 16:30 |
| nemo | she loves her mobs | 16:31 |
| nemo | probably more than building really | 16:31 |
| nemo | and, well, I paid for minecraft a decade ago sooo | 16:31 |
| * furrywolf continues to entirely fail to understand minecraft | 16:34 | |
| mason | nemo: Mineclone add a Minecraft-like experience to Minetest and runs nicely on Devuan. | 16:36 |
| sixwheeledbeast | It's just not minecraft tho | 16:37 |
| * MinceR wonders if there's a related piece of software called Minestrone | 16:38 | |
| furrywolf | I don't see the appeal of designing things out of blocks. Why not install blender and do some real modeling, or something? | 16:40 |
| onefang | Minecraft is a low resolution Second Life / OpenSim, and this conversation is no longer Devuan support, so #debianfork might be better. | 16:41 |
| nemo | fsmithred: welp. few things I've learned testing this. â‘ tigervnc X integration works great when connecting readonly. When connecting readwrite the qemu X window completely freezes forcing restart | 17:30 |
| nemo | I might be better off starting a whole separate X session really | 17:30 |
| fsmithred | ouch | 17:31 |
| nemo | ② If I restart lightdm in an attempt to fix ①, the tmux session I'd spawned inside the X session inexplicably disconnects ☺ | 17:31 |
| fsmithred | I haven't tried tigervnc. using x11vnc and xtightvncviewer here | 17:31 |
| nemo | fsmithred: I was using xtight, but it was being annoying on the windows VMs. tiger seems much better behaved | 17:32 |
| nemo | dynamically resizes window for example | 17:32 |
| nemo | and the paste works as I expect | 17:32 |
| ullet | some are better optimised for streaming video/game content | 17:32 |
| fsmithred | I believe you on that | 17:32 |
| nemo | ullet: once upon a time I would indeed do gaming on my xtightvnc | 17:32 |
| ullet | i in principle freenx should be faster than vnc (image compression) | 17:32 |
| nemo | ullet: I'd use max jpeg compression and stripped down colours | 17:33 |
| ullet | mhm | 17:33 |
| ullet | *for text | 17:33 |
| nemo | could get almost real-time on my awful connection at the time | 17:33 |
| nemo | I mostly used it to check in on my xdotool mining script to make sure I wasn't being suspicious 😃 | 17:33 |
| nemo | (my younger brothers had talked me into playing an MMORPG with them and I quickly established it was almost nothing but boring grinding) | 17:33 |
| nemo | I passed the time by writing scripts to automate the repetitive actions, and also one for automatically mapping the world (taking screenshots appropriately tagged) | 17:34 |
| ullet | xdotool nice swiss army knie | 17:34 |
| ullet | fe | 17:34 |
| nemo | seems silly that scripting repetitive actions is considered bad, but there ya go | 17:34 |
| nemo | yep | 17:34 |
| nemo | it's like goal of an MMORPG is to challenge players to see who is willing to put up with emulating a small FSM for as long as possible without going mad | 17:35 |
| furrywolf | if a game can be automated that easily, maybe the game sucks? heh | 17:35 |
| djph | furrywolf: eve online was like that - but the "game" was more an excuse to get on teamspeak or use excel | 17:37 |
| nemo | furrywolf: I mean, most games have interesting parts, but for some reason MMORPGs often decide to build in some sort of economy that requires burning time in exchange for cool things | 17:44 |
| nemo | furrywolf: maybe in hopes people will spend money instead of time to get the cool things | 17:44 |
| nemo | which is probably why they crack down on scripting, since they are really trying to punish you with tedium for not buying things | 17:44 |
| furrywolf | or they want to make sure it takes as long as possible to play, so you subscribe to it for a longer period, without wanting to invest the creativity needed to make it non-repetitive. | 17:45 |
| nemo | but, well, my MMORPG experience is fairly limited, also doesn't explain why subscription games do this kind of stupidity | 17:45 |
| djph | eve was a bit different -- it could also be "stealing from that other guy" :D | 17:45 |
| furrywolf | I have none at all. not a gamer. lol | 17:45 |
| djph | but yea, the entire premise was "it's a chatroom with pretty graphics" | 17:46 |
| nemo | djph: hm. eve? some people seem to take eve very seriously | 17:46 |
| nemo | djph: far more than "chatroom" | 17:46 |
| nemo | haven't played it myself, just read the articles on news sites when something big happens in the universe | 17:46 |
| djph | nemo: oh sure, that's the ... what, maybe annual (or twice-annual) "super big thing that happened" ; but the general day-to-day is IRC with better graphics :D | 17:49 |
| djph | it has ruined MMOs in general for me though | 17:49 |
| nemo | furrywolf: hm. another odd thing I just noticed about devuan when setting up this qemu due to poor behaviour of X/vnc | 17:52 |
| nemo | furrywolf: was gonna change to the default multiuser non-X runlevel. and it seems lightdm/slim are by default started on 2-5 | 17:52 |
| golinux | nemo: Thank you for getting this channel back to support | 17:53 |
| nemo | lol | 17:53 |
| nemo | ok. I guess that is channel-wide. does devuan (and debian) not have a default non-gui runlevel? | 17:53 |
| nemo | I mean I can change this obv, was just surprising | 17:54 |
| bgstack15 | This link's probably stale, but the short answer is "no." | 17:56 |
| bgstack15 | https://wiki.debian.org/RunLevel | 17:56 |
| nemo | bgstack15: yeah, I went to that page and it seemed lightweight, unmaintained and systemd focused | 18:00 |
| nemo | bgstack15: so thought I'd get something more authoritative | 18:00 |
| nemo | welp. since there's nothing official I suppose I'll just use 5 | 18:01 |
| nemo | bgstack15: there's no differentiation at all between 2-5 then by default? | 18:01 |
| nemo | https://debian-administration.org/article/212/An_introduction_to_run-levels says "same as 2" so I assume using 5 is fine | 18:06 |
| mason | nemo: The distinction between multi-user and X has sort of blurred over time. | 18:10 |
| nemo | mason: makes sense. most of the time I don't care. this is definitely one of the cases I do | 18:11 |
| nemo | mason: hell. I leave X running on my "headless" vms at work so the administrators there don't freak out when they don't see a GUI in their VM manager | 18:11 |
| MinceR | lol, "administrators" | 18:15 |
| nemo | MinceR: 😉 I'm just grateful they've accepted linux joining their ecosystem. and hell, that devuan has survived as long given they want me on ubuntu/redhat. | 18:47 |
| meep_____ | » [09:11:37] <nemo> mason: hell. I leave X running on my "headless" vms at work so the administrators there don't freak out when they don't see a GUI in their VM manager | 19:42 |
| meep_____ | what kind of "administrators" do you have? | 19:42 |
| MinceR | windows/macos culture | 19:51 |
| meep_____ | Why do they care what the servers run? | 19:54 |
| mason | meep_____: There aren't enough competent Unix admins out there, so Windows admins or folks who aren't systems administrators at all get pressed into the role. | 20:01 |
| mason | With any luck they end up liking the stuff and become real Unix admins. | 20:01 |
| MinceR | they're confused by the look of a text mode console, it seems :> | 20:01 |
| mason | And in this case, if they do, they'll be turned on to Devuan, so that's cool. | 20:01 |
| mason | Everyone starts somewhere. | 20:02 |
| MinceR | the industry is dying and unix is dying | 20:02 |
| mason | Nah, but demand is outstripping available labour for sure. | 20:02 |
| MinceR | maybe life on earth gets lucky and humanity dies as well | 20:02 |
| meep_____ | There's always corona | 20:03 |
| meep_____ | CoronOS | 20:18 |
| Akuli | is someone running mate-desktop on beowulf? where can i find a shutdown button? | 20:21 |
| Akuli | seems like i need to enable dbus, how do i do that? https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/why-does-mate-system-menu-not-have-the-shutdown-and-restart-items.70845/ | 20:30 |
| ullet | maybe you don't really need to run dbus | 20:31 |
| Akuli | hmm | 20:34 |
| Akuli | dbus seems to be running and doing something https://termbin.com/k3rh | 20:34 |
| Akuli | do you know how this works in other desktop environments? | 20:34 |
| Akuli | with or without dbus | 20:35 |
| Akuli | ok so turns out that it already works | 20:48 |
| Akuli | this brings up the dialog: mate-session-save --shutdown-dialog but no idea why there isn't a menu button doing that | 20:49 |
| meep_____ | I don't like how with beowulf elogind I can't shutdown the system without closing out all my programs first | 21:09 |
| ullet | can you kill PID 1? | 21:12 |
| Akuli | terminal commands that shut down correctly: sudo poweroff, mate-session-save --shutdown-dialog | 21:12 |
| Akuli | this gets more interesting: on a new beowulf system the shutdown thing is there, but it's missing after dist-upgrade | 22:36 |
| openbsdtai123 | hello, I have made a suite FLTK for desktop and maths, especially for fast applications: https://openbsdtai123.shell.ircnow.org/fltk/fltksuite1.1/ | 22:37 |
| openbsdtai123 | in progress, coop would be great. | 22:38 |
| ullet | thanks openbsdtai123 | 23:39 |
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