krntz | Anyone know if there's a 5.11 kernel package around? | 01:05 |
---|---|---|
krntz | or failing that, a fix/workaround for the cpufreq issues for ryzen 5000 series.. afaik it shouldn't be needed on 5.10 and lower but performance is bad / behaves weirdly for me on 5.10 and stock 4.19 | 01:08 |
gnarface | krntz: dunno, recommend you stick with 5.9 | 01:11 |
krntz | ah, 5.9 is working better for zen3 then? | 01:11 |
gnarface | i dunno but it's working better for me on everything else | 01:11 |
gnarface | even backports and unstable only go up to 5.10-something | 01:12 |
gnarface | and a day or two ago Linus himself said don't use 5.12 | 01:12 |
Tenkawa | you know 5.9 is EOL right? | 01:12 |
krntz | ah yeah, big corruption bug in 5.12 | 01:12 |
onefang | 5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64 in Beowulf, which I upgraded from 5.9 a little while age. For my Ryzen Threadripper. | 01:13 |
Tenkawa | gnarface: Linus said dont use a specific 5.12-rc actually | 01:13 |
gnarface | multiple reports of block device performance regressions on aarch64 in post-5.9 kernels, too | 01:13 |
onefang | 5.12 is still on rc2, it wont hit production for a while. | 01:13 |
Tenkawa | 5.11 is perfectly fine | 01:13 |
Tenkawa | it is the stable kernel branch | 01:14 |
onefang | 5.10 is the latest you'll get from Beowulf backports for now. | 01:14 |
krntz | well I wouldn't bother to use any rc like 5.12, but I suppose I can see what 5.9 offers.. though I do wonder what debians plan of support is for it without upstream LTS | 01:14 |
Tenkawa | even 5.10 is a LTS | 01:14 |
gnarface | Tenkawa: upstream's concept of "EOL" for kernels is fairly irrelevant to the discussion of which Debian kernel package to use | 01:14 |
krntz | I guess they'll still provide fixes, either way | 01:15 |
gnarface | krntz: i assume after 5.12 is patched up it'll end up in unstable | 01:15 |
gnarface | krntz: at that point it should be easy to backport if necessary | 01:15 |
gnarface | krntz: they're still not on 5.11 though so my advice to you is figure out what to do until then | 01:16 |
krntz | 5.10 not fixing my issue, but it's a weird one I'll admit.. not so much a benchmarkable thing, but visually appears not to perform well | 01:16 |
gnarface | i dont have any ryzen hardware here but 5.9 hasn't given me any problems | 01:16 |
krntz | I'll give it a try, got it installed now. Thanks :) | 01:17 |
gnarface | make sure your video drivers are still loading right, maybe you just ran into a dkms issue while changing kernels and didn't notice, or something like that | 01:17 |
gnarface | happening lately with nvidia cards | 01:17 |
gnarface | i forget exactly what versions of stuff | 01:18 |
krntz | ah, tbh nvidia drivers have started to suck lately but yes it's nvidia | 01:18 |
krntz | but somehow a straight up switch from 3600x to 5600x has caused the issues | 01:18 |
gnarface | hmm, i could only speculate | 01:18 |
Tenkawa | krntz: yeah check lsmod and make sure its not loading nouveau | 01:19 |
gnarface | but if you switched from a CPU that was older than your motherboard to a CPU that is newer than your motherboard, go check for BIOS updates | 01:19 |
gnarface | could be a memory/clock speed issue too | 01:19 |
krntz | yeah I know how you mean, it seems there has been a regression, and a sign that 5.11 not only fixes it but boosts perf up to 6% according to moronix, so I guess there are some teething issues left | 01:19 |
krntz | even barring the regression I mean | 01:20 |
krntz | yeah, been keeping it patched up to latest agesa version. Anyway I best go reboot this into 5.9, thanks for the infos | 01:20 |
klvnc | well, seems a bit nippier now at any rate :) | 01:28 |
krntz | that'll teach me to use hardware that's only been out a few months:P especially AMD who are sucking at supporting cpu rn | 01:29 |
krntz | iirc their answer to zen2 issues was simply "We recommend Windows 10." | 01:30 |
gnarface | krntz: i think it'll probably be fine in a couple months | 01:31 |
gnarface | krntz: demand is through the roof on that hardware | 01:31 |
krntz | yeah likely, it's apparently fine on 5.11 | 01:31 |
onefang | For what it's worth both Linus Torvalds and Greg Hartman use AMD Ryzen Threadrippers. I designed my new super desktop similar to theirs. | 01:31 |
krntz | and supply is low yeah.. I had to check many sites to find stock | 01:31 |
gnarface | yea, microsoft probably won't scramble to do anything, but the kernel developers themselves will want to fix it just to get it out of their way | 01:32 |
krntz | well threadripper is insanely expensive, though I'd use it if I was happy to stay with one hardware vendor for a while | 01:34 |
onefang | I know, I spent 11 grand on this system. lol | 01:35 |
krntz | haha wow, that's massive. Maxed out the ram I take it.. personally I'm buying more like entry level gaming hw, that way I can easily justify swapping stuff when some new performance killing hw security bug comes out again.. though I must admit, I've dodged many bullets getting away from intel | 01:36 |
numzob | 11k on one compueter ... yikes | 01:38 |
numzob | must be one hell of a system | 01:38 |
krntz | it would be great for content creation, I'd assume.. | 01:39 |
onefang | AMD Threadripper 3990X, MSI Creator TRX40 mobo, G.Skill Trident Z Neo 256 GB, Sapphire Radeon RX 5600 XT BE 6 GB PULSE graphics card, Seagate FireCuda 520 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME SSD, be quiet! Dark Power Pro 12 1500W, 80 PLUS Titanium, ... | 01:39 |
onefang | Seagate Ironwolf Pro 16 TB I added later. | 01:39 |
numzob | 256 gig of ram? wow! | 01:40 |
* numzob falls over | 01:40 | |
onefang | I do OpenSim 3D virtual world development. And other things. | 01:40 |
krntz | graphic designer? | 01:40 |
krntz | ah I dunno what that is, but still.. sounds along the right lines for your setup | 01:41 |
onefang | Programmer and sysadmin. | 01:41 |
onefang | OpenSim is an open source rewrite of the Second Life server software. If you still don't know what that is, think social WoW, or a much higher resolution Minecraft. lol | 01:43 |
* numzob tried second life ... hated it. control scheme made m carpal tunnel scream | 01:44 | |
krntz | lately I think we're kind of pushed into a corner with hardware.. much like the systemd situation, e.g features no sane person wants are no longer optional | 01:44 |
onefang | http://grid.infinitegrid.org:8002/web/SledjHamr.png for an example. | 01:45 |
krntz | ah | 01:46 |
onefang | Though I took that photo on my old desktop, if I took it today it would look better. lol | 01:47 |
krntz | yeah I thought it looked a little low res :p | 01:51 |
kreyren | <tuxd3v "Krey, what says 'lsmod|grep nouv"> http://ix.io/2SiJ | 04:04 |
kreyren | > [ 31.302] (EE) modeset(0): glamor initialization failed | 04:14 |
kreyren | > [ 31.967] (II) AIGLX: Screen 0 is not DRI2 capable | 04:14 |
kreyren | this is for the nouveau issue on devuan.. nouveau highlighted these entries in log assuming permission issue with the way devuan handles systemd compatibility | 04:15 |
kreyren | > anyways, debian sadly patches Xorg to explicitly prefer using modesetting for nvidia GPUs newer than nv50 or so | 04:15 |
gnarface | hard to say until you blacklist nouveau | 04:15 |
gnarface | but for the permission issue you just need to be in the "video" group | 04:16 |
gnarface | kreyren: oh sorry, you're not having the same issue as krntz, i was confused. yea, just make sure you're in the video group | 04:18 |
kreyren | kreyren@dreamon:~$ groups | 04:18 |
kreyren | kreyren cdrom floppy sudo audio dip video plugdev netdev scanner lpadmin | 04:18 |
gnarface | (and relog) | 04:18 |
kreyren | i am | 04:18 |
gnarface | nouveau might not support all hardware right; you've seen this, right? https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/FeatureMatrix.html | 04:19 |
gnarface | i wonder if you're missing mesa packages | 04:20 |
gnarface | libglx or something perhaps? | 04:20 |
gnarface | or libgl1? | 04:20 |
gnarface | it's a common problem with fresh installs | 04:20 |
gnarface | dpkg -l |grep libgl | 04:20 |
kreyren | <gnarface "nouveau might not support all ha"> yes was told that: | 04:20 |
kreyren | ideally if you could join #nouveau ? | 04:21 |
kreyren | <gnarface "i wonder if you're missing mesa "> kreyren@dreamon:~$ apt list --installed mesa | 04:21 |
gnarface | no, i'm never going back there, if they can't help you i certainly can't | 04:21 |
gnarface | missing libgl1-mesa-glx seems to be a common issue though | 04:22 |
kreyren | > [ 3.930994] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: firmware: failed to load nvidia/gm204/acr/bl.bin (-2) | 04:22 |
kreyren | > [ 3.930998] firmware_class: See https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware for information about missing firmware | 04:22 |
gnarface | i thought nouveau only needed that firmware for video decoding | 04:22 |
kreyren | was told that mesa is next issues first it should fix the kernel not having access to the gPU? | 04:23 |
gnarface | kernel not having access to the GPU??? are they saying you need the firmware for that? because the only thing i knew of that could cause that other than a physical power issue (or hardware damage) would be needing to specify a pci id in the xorg.conf because auto-detect is failing for whatever weird reason | 04:24 |
gnarface | you might get better behavior out of the backports kernel... | 04:24 |
kreyren | yes it seems that i need a firmware for it | 04:24 |
kreyren | O.o | 04:25 |
gnarface | hmm, that's a new one to me | 04:25 |
gnarface | so they're saying you need to follow that wiki page and cut the firmware out of the right version of the official nvidia installer or something? | 04:26 |
kreyren | > kernel can access the GPU just fine | 04:26 |
kreyren | > just doesn't expose acceleration without firwmare. | 04:26 |
gnarface | hmm, i wonder if they're giving you a goose chase | 04:26 |
kreyren | > firmware-misc-nonfree is the specific package w/ the blobs. firmware-linux and friends might get it via dep, unsure | 04:26 |
gnarface | there's newer nvidia hardware out there for which you simply can't do this, because it requires it to be signed by some nvidia key | 04:26 |
gnarface | oh | 04:27 |
gnarface | well did you try installing that package? | 04:27 |
kreyren | <gnarface "there's newer nvidia hardware ou"> that applies for pascal+ this is maxwell afaik | 04:27 |
gnarface | i didn't think there was any nvidia stuff in there | 04:27 |
kreyren | this GPU worked great on nouveau before | 04:27 |
gnarface | oh | 04:27 |
gnarface | so is your question just about how to enable non-free? | 04:27 |
kreyren | (+- 115% of proprietary driver in terms of performance) | 04:27 |
kreyren | <gnarface "so is your question just about h"> well ideally without non-free but apparently i need it for video accel? | 04:28 |
gnarface | yes | 04:28 |
gnarface | kreyren: read the notes on this page: https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/VideoAcceleration.html | 04:29 |
kreyren | <gnarface "Krey: read the notes on this pag"> did already | 04:30 |
* kreyren is rebooting with the firmware | 04:30 | |
kreyren | The firmware fixed the issue | 04:34 |
kreyren | ^-^ | 04:34 |
kreyren | thanks for help | 04:34 |
gnarface | np | 04:35 |
kreyren | So i have the dGPU working on nouveau, but now it unloaded the iGPU diver and apps like element-desktop are getting super slow now x.x | 05:00 |
kreyren | how can i make it to use iGPU for desktop and dGPU for specified applications e.g. using DRI_Prime=1 | 05:00 |
gnarface | i think you can do it on a per-program basis just like "DRI_PRIME=1 ioquake3" | 05:01 |
gnarface | or whatever | 05:01 |
kreyren | unable the iGPU is not loaded | 05:01 |
gnarface | hmmm | 05:01 |
gnarface | not sure then actually, maybe you'd have to set up your xorg.conf to load them both | 05:01 |
kreyren_ | ping | 05:01 |
kreyren_ | devuan doesn't seem to have any xorg.conf by default | 05:02 |
kreyren_ | devuan doesn't seem to know | 05:03 |
kreyren_ | ehh wrong chat | 05:03 |
alv | morning all | 09:49 |
alv | how is the state of chimaera ?? it's good time to switch from beowulf ??? | 09:50 |
parinte | helo. do you know how to add devuan on a multiboot usb stick with yumi? | 10:15 |
gordonDrogon | anyone tried to upgrade/migrate a Debian Stretch directly to Devuan Beowolf? I have a VPS running Stretch (sans systemd) and the hosts don't have a Devuan image, so ... Brave enough to just edit /etc/apt/sources.list and go for it? | 10:23 |
gordonDrogon | I don't have anything to lose though - it's not doing anything special, so if I have to re-install from the host then it's no big deal other than some time... | 10:24 |
Joril | gordonDrogon: maybe it would be safer doing a Stretch -> Devuan ASCII -> Devuan Beowulf | 10:31 |
gordonDrogon | Hm. possibly! | 10:31 |
gordonDrogon | I'll give it a go later today when I get back in... :) | 10:32 |
Joril | actually, there's https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/stretch-to-beowulf.html | 10:32 |
Joril | (just found out :D ) | 10:32 |
parinte | it gives an error before booting devuan 3.1.0, added on usb with yumi multiboot: file for drive emulation must be in one contiguous disk area (grub4dos) | 10:40 |
xinomilo | have you tried ventoy multiboot? haven't used it in a while, but remember it booted ok.. | 10:44 |
parinte | and stops booting... maybe there is onother way to copy the iso to multiboot usb (with yumi) or wait for un update? we'll try ventoy. thank you | 10:48 |
linearain | devuan-offtopic | 11:26 |
gnarface | alv: people are doing it but i am still recommending not to | 11:26 |
kreyren | 10.48 GB of devuan torrent seeded 3.78 ^-^ | 12:57 |
gordonDrogon | well, it failed. Debian stretch -> Devian ASCII. I suspect it might have been the kernel. I'll see if I can pin that so it's not upgraded ... | 15:36 |
djph | what's "Devian" gordonDrogon ? | 15:40 |
djph | new OS for Ruby? | 15:40 |
gordonDrogon | no, ust a typo for Devuan. | 15:41 |
djph | aw | 15:41 |
gordonDrogon | making my Ruby SBC run Devuan would be a challenge indeed! | 15:41 |
djph | Just a bit. Don't think there's a linux kernel that supports the 6502 | 15:42 |
gordonDrogon | nor the '816. | 15:44 |
gordonDrogon | looks like I've broken the VPS again though. *sigh* maybe I ought to just find a VPS host that support Devuan natively. | 15:44 |
MinceR | Deviant GNU/Linux | 15:54 |
sadsnork | The mirror walkthrough (dated July 2019) http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt says that running a mirror requires about 50GB of disk space. Is 50GB still a reasonable estimate? | 16:44 |
sadsnork | And since it looks like the only software required is rsync (to pull updates) and a web server (to provide download services), would it be possible to run a mirror on a VPS with say a single CPU, 0.5GB memory, 100GB disk space, and 100Mbit/Unmetered network? | 16:46 |
xinomilo | yes, current allocation : ~33G (checked own mirror...) | 16:46 |
sadsnork | Excellent, thanks xinomilo! | 16:46 |
xinomilo | i'm running a mirror on vps with those exact specs also, iirc | 16:47 |
sadsnork | Do you mind if I ask how much it costs you? | 16:48 |
xinomilo | i don't pay for it, it's kindly "donated" from work. we pay for a hetzner dedicated (~30e/month), and it's one of the vps hosted on that dedi. | 16:51 |
sadsnork | Your work rocks. :-) | 16:51 |
xinomilo | "work" is actually a coop :) can't stand having a boss... :D | 16:53 |
sadsnork | Nice! PS: is it fair to say that an additional mirror (in Canada) is something the project would actually need right now? | 16:56 |
Tenkawa | sadsnork: I'd certainly like to see one (being about 200 miles south of the border) | 16:57 |
Tenkawa | lol :) | 16:57 |
xinomilo | not in the mirror team, but yes, i think north america needs mirrors.. | 16:58 |
sadsnork | Let's see what my VPS guy says then. :-) | 16:58 |
* Tenkawa would put up a USA mirror if there was a VPS here he trusted anymore | 16:58 | |
Tenkawa | the connectivity for most of the networks here has gone downhill | 16:59 |
tuxd3v | I took a dive into https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/VideoAcceleration.html | 17:59 |
tuxd3v | I used the driver: NVIDIA-Linux-x86-390.132 | 17:59 |
tuxd3v | it changed and we can no longer extract all the firmware :( | 17:59 |
tuxd3v | when we run: python2 extract_firmware.py | 18:00 |
tuxd3v | it complains that we don't have file: NVIDIA-Linux-%s-%s/kernel/nv-kernel.o | 18:00 |
tuxd3v | I used for the hack: NVIDIA-Linux-x86-390.132/kernel/nvidia/nv-kernel.o_binary | 18:01 |
tuxd3v | it produced some files ls -l | 18:01 |
tuxd3v | vuc* | 18:01 |
tuxd3v | but no nv* ones :( | 18:01 |
tuxd3v | this is the result of my hack: | 18:02 |
tuxd3v | https://paste.debian.net/1188725/ | 18:03 |
tuxd3v | kreyren, does your hack produced same files? | 18:03 |
tuxd3v | mine doesn produced the nv* ones :( | 18:03 |
Tenkawa | tuxd3v: have you tried the newer drivers? those are quite old | 18:08 |
Tenkawa | NVIDIA has released 5 or 6 major releases since those | 18:09 |
Tenkawa | one of them specificly to address build issues if I remember correctly | 18:10 |
Tenkawa | tuxd3v: however in regard to those drivers... I did have a thought... have you tried running the extraction only routine first? | 18:13 |
Tenkawa | it does have a lot of that stiff packed into the archive | 18:14 |
Tenkawa | er stuff | 18:14 |
Tenkawa | yep it appears the binaries are there | 18:15 |
Tenkawa | NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-460.56/kernel/nvidia/nv-kernel.o_binar | 18:15 |
Tenkawa | oops missed the y on the end | 18:16 |
gordonDrogon | Tenkawa, devuan everywhere - except Pis - yet. | 18:28 |
gordonDrogon | actually except my VPSs but they're debian without systemd | 18:29 |
gordonDrogon | currently trying https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/migrate-to-ascii.html | 18:29 |
gordonDrogon | which has mostly worked on a 'test' VPS I have with OVH but something isn't quite right and I can't remotely login, but I can KVM login although there kvm is somewhat sub-optimal via a web interface )-: | 18:30 |
Tenkawa | ahh.. my primary PI4 currently run development devuan | 18:32 |
tuxd3v | gordonDrogon, Devuan is in a lot of PIs :) | 18:32 |
tuxd3v | take a look here: http://arm-files.devuan.org/ | 18:33 |
gordonDrogon | tuxd3v, I know - I've just not had the time/energy to try it myself yet. | 18:33 |
gordonDrogon | thanks. | 18:33 |
tuxd3v | :) | 18:33 |
Tenkawa | tuxd3v: he and I know each other from over in the main rpi chan | 18:33 |
tuxd3v | you welcome :) | 18:33 |
gordonDrogon | also about to move house, so things here are somewhat strained - and will be for the next month or so. | 18:33 |
Tenkawa | oh moving? good luck | 18:33 |
gordonDrogon | thanks. been trying to move for ~18 months now... | 18:34 |
Tenkawa | had that fun back in 2009 to my house... where I plan on being for a long long time | 18:34 |
gordonDrogon | current house just took a long time to sell - new house was agreed and under offer and will be sold in ~4 weeks. | 18:35 |
Tenkawa | (or was it 2006.. i cant remember now) | 18:35 |
Tenkawa | tuxd3v: did you catch that above about getting those files from extracting the installer? | 18:36 |
gordonDrogon | been here almsot 20 years now, hoping this will be the last move ... | 18:36 |
Tenkawa | tuxd3v: you can run a -x on the bundle to extract them | 18:36 |
Tenkawa | gordonDrogon: I hear you | 18:36 |
tuxd3v | Tenkawa, I did the: 'sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86-390.132.run --extract-only' first :9 | 18:36 |
tuxd3v | :) | 18:36 |
gordonDrogon | so once I move, I might put devuan on a Pi and release wiringPi for that platform... only. | 18:37 |
Tenkawa | tuxd3v: yeah those files are extremely useful but do need renamed | 18:37 |
tuxd3v | I didn't renamed | 18:37 |
tuxd3v | acording to the documentation: https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/VideoAcceleration.html | 18:37 |
Tenkawa | the .o and .h you would for these: | 18:38 |
tuxd3v | but the NVIDIA-Linux-%s-%s/kernel/nv-kernel.o doesn't exist :/ | 18:38 |
Tenkawa | /home/na/Downloads/NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-460.56/kernel/nvidia/nv-kernel.o_binary | 18:38 |
tuxd3v | so I went with ''NVIDIA-Linux-x86-390.132/kernel/nvidia/nv-kernel.o_binary' | 18:38 |
Tenkawa | because its not renamed | 18:39 |
tuxd3v | the python2 script is old | 18:39 |
Tenkawa | its to make sure they dont blow away the old files too | 18:39 |
Tenkawa | its a safety mechanism | 18:39 |
tuxd3v | and it needs some adjustments, I made some, but, don't know if the final result was ok, since I only got fuc`files and none nv* :/ | 18:40 |
Tenkawa | NVIDIA's installer directory leaves a LOT to be desired on structure | 18:40 |
tuxd3v | but the documentation states that there are nv* firmware files as well as nv* files too | 18:40 |
Tenkawa | structure/organization | 18:40 |
tuxd3v | so this is what I got: https://paste.debian.net/1188725/ | 18:41 |
tuxd3v | I needed to go with 390.132, because I am on i686 :) | 18:42 |
tuxd3v | and for i686 Nvidia doesn't privide the .run extratable installers :/ | 18:42 |
tuxd3v | they only provide for amd64 | 18:42 |
Tenkawa | really? | 18:43 |
Tenkawa | odd | 18:43 |
tuxd3v | yeah, so I only got fuc* files, not nv* ones... I don't know if that is OK | 18:44 |
tuxd3v | ? | 18:44 |
Tenkawa | yeah.. nvidia has no standalone fw files | 18:45 |
Tenkawa | just checked | 18:45 |
Tenkawa | at least not in this repo (or on this running GTX box) | 18:46 |
tuxd3v | what files does you have in '/lib/firmware/nouveau' | 18:46 |
tuxd3v | ? | 18:46 |
Tenkawa | none | 18:47 |
Tenkawa | thats not nvidia | 18:47 |
Tenkawa | thats mainline | 18:47 |
Tenkawa | thats "kernel.org" | 18:47 |
Tenkawa | not nvidia(tm) | 18:48 |
tuxd3v | wait. I am talking about getting nouveau having video aceleration, and for that I believe you need the '/lib/firmware/nouveau' files | 18:48 |
tuxd3v | python2 extract_firmware.py | 18:49 |
Tenkawa | lsmod | grep nvidia| wc -l ; lsmod | grep nouveau| wc -l | 18:49 |
Tenkawa | 9 | 18:49 |
Tenkawa | 0 | 18:49 |
tuxd3v | does exactly that, it goes to the .run installer folders(after extracted), and get out from the bynaries the firmware files.. | 18:49 |
Tenkawa | if you are using the installer you "cant" use nouveay | 18:50 |
Tenkawa | er nouveau | 18:50 |
tuxd3v | Tenkawa, so you have the Closed source driver installed! :) | 18:50 |
Tenkawa | they are mutually exclusive | 18:50 |
Tenkawa | it even tells you that when you try to install it | 18:50 |
Tenkawa | (with the newer installers) | 18:50 |
tuxd3v | I want to use nouveau, because of issues with firefox.. | 18:51 |
Tenkawa | it will blacklist nouveau | 18:51 |
nemo | tuxd3v: what issues? | 18:51 |
Tenkawa | firefox issue? | 18:51 |
tuxd3v | no, I don't want to blacklist, I want to use nouveau! | 18:51 |
Tenkawa | yeah.. not aware of these | 18:51 |
nemo | tuxd3v: I mean, I ditched nvidia at home, but when I was on it I had no firefox issues | 18:51 |
nemo | either in nouveau or nvidia driver | 18:51 |
nemo | games was another matter | 18:51 |
nemo | that situation accurate as of last year | 18:52 |
nemo | but was that way for like... a decade | 18:52 |
tuxd3v | but to have 3d acell plus aceleration for video playback, you need the firmware in '/lib/firmware/nouveau' | 18:52 |
* Tenkawa uses steam to play games with the proprietary games weekly on his linux box | 18:52 | |
nemo | Tenkawa: oh sure. I have tons of GoG and Steam games that play fine on linux. now under AMD and before under nvidia | 18:52 |
Tenkawa | what firmware? | 18:52 |
* Tenkawa has no seperate fw blobs/clobs | 18:53 | |
nemo | tuxd3v: 3d accel should work with both nouveau and proprietary blob just fine | 18:53 |
nemo | tuxd3v: but you're right you need their firmware | 18:53 |
tuxd3v | but to get the '/lib/firmware/nouveau' you need to get the Closed source driver, and extract the firmware files needed to get video aceleration... Got it? | 18:53 |
tuxd3v | :) | 18:53 |
nemo | tuxd3v: that last step. no. | 18:53 |
nemo | tuxd3v: that should be distro bundled | 18:53 |
Tenkawa | nemo: exactly | 18:53 |
nemo | tuxd3v: both nvidia and amd firmware is now debian packages, to my knowledge | 18:54 |
Tenkawa | its a dri thing | 18:54 |
nemo | I could be wrong | 18:54 |
tuxd3v | its in the Documentation... read the Firmware Section: https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/VideoAcceleration.html | 18:54 |
nemo | my familiarity w/ firmware situation on nvidia is not up to date. it's true for amd | 18:54 |
nemo | tuxd3v: documentation doesn't have any information about distros | 18:54 |
nemo | tuxd3v: distros can package whatever they like | 18:54 |
nemo | law permitting | 18:54 |
nemo | hell. even for law-restricted stuff there's silly hacks like how distros get dvd decryption to work | 18:55 |
tuxd3v | Debian doesn't provide the firmware for nvidia as a separate package because the license of closed drivers doesn't permit it.. | 18:55 |
nemo | tuxd3v: that's a very broad statement. debian absolutely provides closed source firmware for amd... | 18:55 |
tuxd3v | so you need to extract it from the .run installer.. got it? | 18:55 |
nemo | I have it installed right now | 18:55 |
nemo | I don't know about the nvidia situation | 18:56 |
nemo | tuxd3v: please. relax a bit | 18:56 |
nemo | https://packages.gentoo.org/packages/sys-firmware/nvidia-firmware | 18:56 |
nemo | looked this up on my gentoo system | 18:56 |
nemo | checking for debian now | 18:56 |
tuxd3v | No it doesn't for Nvidia, because the Nvidia License expliciclty _forbids_ them todo so.. | 18:56 |
Tenkawa | nemo: he is correct.. it "does" need to be installed.. however it isnt nouveau he wants | 18:56 |
nemo | apt install nvidia-driver firmware-misc-nonfree | 18:56 |
tuxd3v | yes Gentoo has it, but debian doesn't | 18:57 |
nemo | https://wiki.debian.org/fr/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers | 18:57 |
nemo | "firmware-misc-nonfree" seems to be the key one | 18:57 |
nemo | er. sorry for "fr" it defaults to my browser language | 18:57 |
tuxd3v | no | 18:57 |
nemo | https://wiki.debian.org//NvidiaGraphicsDrivers | 18:57 |
Tenkawa | unless he wants the non-proprietary one thats missing features | 18:57 |
nemo | Tenkawa: ok | 18:57 |
nemo | Tenkawa: yeah. like I said, I ditched nvidia, so unfamiliar. | 18:58 |
nemo | fair 'nuff. what features is it missing? | 18:58 |
nemo | Tenkawa: what's missing in the AMD one, I think, is only OpenCL | 18:58 |
nemo | and I don't care about that | 18:58 |
Tenkawa | nemo: some levels of hardware rendering/etc | 18:58 |
tuxd3v | Tenkawa, yes I want to opensource one, the Nouveau :) | 18:58 |
nemo | Tenkawa: ok, but that doesn't eliminate *all* 3d | 18:58 |
nemo | which was his starting statement | 18:58 |
nemo | Tenkawa: also. seems they do have non-free nvidia firmware | 18:58 |
nemo | so it might suffice for his gaming. certainly for firefox | 18:59 |
Tenkawa | tuxd3v: ok then you dont need "ANY" of the NVID(run stuff | 18:59 |
nemo | I never had any issues w/ firefox acceleration which is not that complex | 18:59 |
Tenkawa | er *run | 18:59 |
nemo | maybe for firefox webrender. might need it for that. it does a lot on the GPU. but that's not critical | 18:59 |
tuxd3v | Tenkawa, you need to extract the firmware--- | 18:59 |
tuxd3v | only to extract the firmware, and them delete the run files.. | 18:59 |
Tenkawa | no.. its in debian non-free now.. there "is" no firmware | 19:00 |
tuxd3v | Tenkawa, no man tat's impossible | 19:00 |
Tenkawa | there..I found it | 19:01 |
Tenkawa | firmware-misc-nonfree | 19:01 |
Tenkawa | I think nemo said it too | 19:02 |
Tenkawa | its in that pkg | 19:02 |
tuxd3v | No that package can't have nvidia firmware.. again the Nvidia license forbits its distribution apart from the installer.. | 19:02 |
nemo | tuxd3v: I don't know how distro implements it, but it is entirely possible that they use a handoff mechanism | 19:03 |
Tenkawa | "Read Carefully" | 19:03 |
nemo | tuxd3v: as was done with DVD DeCSS | 19:03 |
Tenkawa | Update the list of available packages, then we can install the nvidia-driver package, plus the necessary firmware: | 19:03 |
Tenkawa | # apt update # apt install nvidia-driver firmware-misc-nonfree | 19:03 |
Tenkawa | from the wiki | 19:03 |
iv4nshm4k0v | tuxd3v: Is Nvidia license available somewhere on the Web? URI? | 19:03 |
nemo | tuxd3v: linux machines read all movies on DVDs today using a legally dubious mechanism, but it is all automagical from user's perspective ☺ | 19:03 |
Tenkawa | that seems fairly clear to me | 19:03 |
tuxd3v | nemo don't compare things that have nothing in commun :) | 19:04 |
nemo | tuxd3v: … why are you so aggressive? | 19:04 |
nemo | the parallel here is. legal restrictions on distribution | 19:04 |
Tenkawa | we are just trying to help tuxd3v.. | 19:04 |
nemo | another example is ms core font distribution in linux | 19:04 |
nemo | or wine provisioning of dlls | 19:04 |
nemo | OI | 19:04 |
nemo | I'm just saying it *can* be done. so maybe check out that package instead of flat out saying no | 19:04 |
tuxd3v | nemo, I am not agressive... I am drinking my coffe, and smoking a lot , so I am fine :) | 19:04 |
nemo | if we're wrong. oh well | 19:05 |
nemo | it can't hurt to try | 19:05 |
tuxd3v | in a peace state of midn :) | 19:05 |
tuxd3v | mind* | 19:05 |
nemo | oh well. whatev. I should get back to work | 19:05 |
iv4nshm4k0v | nemo: My understanding was that all the .dlls that are part of Wine are free software reimplementations of proprietary MS interfaces. | 19:05 |
Tenkawa | iv4nshm4k0v: yep | 19:05 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: the ones bundled. but if you wanna do anything useful, you pretty much need to fire up winetricks | 19:05 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: wine app db is basically 90% that 😉 | 19:06 |
Tenkawa | nemo: and that doesnt work 1/2 the time lol | 19:06 |
nemo | "run X in winetricks to get Y running" | 19:06 |
nemo | Tenkawa: eh.. my success rate has been pretty good lately | 19:06 |
Tenkawa | help then!!!! | 19:06 |
Tenkawa | lo | 19:06 |
Tenkawa | l | 19:06 |
Tenkawa | j/k | 19:06 |
nemo | Tenkawa: hehe. maybe start w/ non-distro wine 😉 although chimaera's seems to be good | 19:06 |
* Tenkawa remembers when wine was such a novelty | 19:07 | |
nemo | Tenkawa: then follow suggestions in winetricks. | 19:07 |
nemo | combination works well | 19:07 |
nemo | Tenkawa: proton is an option now too, but ofc they just leached off wine's efforts | 19:07 |
nemo | so the 2 are very similar | 19:07 |
nemo | but maybe nicer bundling... | 19:07 |
Tenkawa | btw anyone got the bug search url handy for devuan? | 19:08 |
Tenkawa | I think i found a broke pkg and wanted to see if anyone has reported it yet | 19:08 |
iv4nshm4k0v | nemo: If by "anything useful" you mean something like "Direct X," I'm afraid I'm not interested anyway. My interest in anything Microsoft has pretty much waned about the time they've announced there'd be no more versions of MS-DOS. | 19:08 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: it's not just directx | 19:08 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: it's ummm one moment | 19:08 |
Tenkawa | iv4nshm4k0v: I'll give them credit.. WSL2 has been pretty nifty | 19:09 |
nemo | there's this one package that like everything needs ☺ | 19:09 |
nemo | blanking on the name of it 'cause I don't really use wine as much | 19:09 |
nemo | literally only 2 things I run in it right now. and they are interrelated. | 19:09 |
nemo | my daughter really really really wanted to play "untitled goose" and it was only available on that stupid awful windows-only software store | 19:09 |
* Tenkawa has been testing unstable this morning and apt-file found broke dependencies | 19:09 | |
nemo | the epic one | 19:10 |
nemo | although I see it is on steam now doh | 19:10 |
nemo | spent a lot of time getting it and the epic store running on linux | 19:10 |
Tenkawa | epic makes me grumble | 19:10 |
Tenkawa | steam is at least consistent | 19:10 |
nemo | Tenkawa: my general strategy for games is to try GoG first | 19:11 |
nemo | then fallback to Steam | 19:11 |
nemo | occasionally with a digression through Humble Bundle, which is usually steam codes | 19:11 |
Tenkawa | this guy: libapt-pkg6.0 is too far out of date right now for apt-file lol | 19:11 |
iv4nshm4k0v | +1 for GOG from me. My general startegy for software is to use non-free software rarely, and DRM never. | 19:12 |
nemo | Tenkawa: WRT bug reporting.. dunno. https://git.devuan.org/explore/repos | 19:13 |
Tenkawa | thanks | 19:13 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: yeah. I was mostly fine w/ FOSS gaming previously | 19:13 |
nemo | Tenkawa: that's just a guess 😉 | 19:13 |
nemo | Tenkawa: but I notice the different repos have issue trackers | 19:13 |
Tenkawa | I'll give it time since this is just the dev branch | 19:13 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: the issue is the kids have different gaming tastes from me. *I* like Hedgewars... *they* want like narrative driven puzzle games. And there's only a few FOSS options there | 19:14 |
Tenkawa | I ran a manual apt build on it to fix the dependency for now | 19:14 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: fortunately their game preferences are, at least, cheap ☺ | 19:14 |
iv4nshm4k0v | nemo: I'm less concerned with non-free games than with using non-free software "in production environment," so to say. As long as a game can be well-isolated, it's not that much harm IMO even if it's non-free. | 19:15 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: well... I like "voting with my wallet" where possible. and GoG is definitely less-bad than steam | 19:16 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: but heck. I'm not even a fan of what snap/flatpak are doing to linux ecosystem, so a ton of non-free is not much better ☺ | 19:16 |
nemo | well. even worse | 19:16 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: I'm not really isolating anything though. apart from separate user. but then, it's just the family's gaming PC | 19:17 |
iv4nshm4k0v | nemo: GOG games do not use DRM, and therefore are ought to run in non-networked environment (or at least non-Internet) just as well. At the very least, they don't infringe on one's privacy. | 19:17 |
nemo | yeah | 19:17 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: soooo wish I'd bought Stardew Valley on GoG - didn't realise Steam was so stupid about that at the time. | 19:18 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: not to mention, their whole DB thing is so awful if you want to run same game from 2 accounts on a machine. in my case, from my account vs family gaming one depending on who was active. not even at same time. couldn't find any reasonable way to even dedupe the terabytes of data | 19:19 |
nemo | even with hardlinks | 19:19 |
nemo | all I managed to do was force redownload of everything ☹ | 19:19 |
iv4nshm4k0v | nemo: Some sort of encryption? (Or just lack of a deduplicating FS, such as Btrfs?) | 19:20 |
iv4nshm4k0v | FWIW, at this point, pretty much the only non-free software that we cannot ditch is that embedded in our VNA. E. g., we use Kicad for PCB layout, and a considerable amount of Gnuplot for modelling. | 19:20 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: not too sure how I messed it up, but my guess is it was the change in permissions needed for 2 accoutns to share over hardlinks maybe | 19:21 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: I'm thinking steam forcibly changed the permissions triggering redownload | 19:21 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: but after completely messing it up, I gave up on that | 19:21 |
nemo | or yeah, some anticopy nonsense | 19:21 |
iv4nshm4k0v | nemo: At some point Btrfs has learned to transparently deduplicate data on block level. Like, when a block gets written that's identical in contents to some already occupied block on the FS, it gets CoWed instead. (Though I've never tried this form of deduplication myself.) | 19:23 |
nemo | hm | 19:23 |
nemo | I guess I could try transitioning to that. that would help | 19:24 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: I was kind of conservative in terms of my main filesystem | 19:24 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: I don't know if you ever looked at the linux filesystem fuzzing test report from a couple of years ago, but ext4 was far and away beyond the others in lack of flaws.. | 19:24 |
nemo | probably due to more users/testers/developers | 19:24 |
nemo | by orders of magnitude most likely | 19:24 |
tuxd3v | Tenkawa, <Tenkawa> because its not renamed | 19:25 |
iv4nshm4k0v | nemo: I use Ext4 for my /home (as well as /, /var, /var/log and /var/cache), but I also use other filesystems when their respective features are needed. Though that mostly means compression and Squashfs. | 19:25 |
tuxd3v | do you mean, I need to rename 'NVIDIA-Linux-x86-390.132/kernel/nvidia/nv-kernel.o_binary' to 'NVIDIA-Linux-x86-390.132/kernel/nvidia/nv-kernel.o' | 19:25 |
tuxd3v | ? | 19:25 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: yeah. not sure how much flexibility steam offers in install location | 19:26 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: a dedicated location would make me feel better about it | 19:26 |
nemo | I mean, I've already redownloaded stuff twice due to their lameness | 19:26 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: once due to failed dedupe experiment, once due to renaming user. | 19:26 |
iv4nshm4k0v | nemo: Doesn't it just use XDG_CACHE_HOME or something like that? Does it at least use HOME (which can well be pointed somewhere else)? | 19:27 |
Tenkawa | tuxd3v: those are for the proprietary kernel module... just making sure you know that but yet | 19:27 |
Tenkawa | er yes | 19:27 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: all I know is that all my games vanished after copying the user to the new PC I was setting up, and had to be redownloaded | 19:28 |
Tenkawa | those have to be renamed then built into a module | 19:28 |
tuxd3v | humm. I will try that :) | 19:28 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: I'd changed user from nemo to family. but nothing else | 19:28 |
Tenkawa | they should be copied to /lib/modules | 19:28 |
Tenkawa | let me get full path | 19:29 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: FWIW, the winetricks I was blanking on that seems commonly needed is mfc40 "microsoft foundation classes" | 19:30 |
nemo | it's even in the wine guide as an example | 19:30 |
nemo | it must be needed a lot | 19:30 |
Tenkawa | follow the template in /lib/modules/kernelversion | 19:30 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: vcrun2003 is often needed too. or other vcrun | 19:30 |
iv4nshm4k0v | nemo: So long that the files themselves are identical (which they may be, but may be not due to encryption/DRM), Btrfs should at least take care that redownloaded data don't waste diskspace. My point is that with XDG_ or HOME, it could be possible to still use Ext4 for the most valuable data under /home, and Btrfs for the rest. | 19:30 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: basically core libraries that wine probably had issues reverse engineering completely | 19:31 |
tuxd3v | Tenkawa, but that is to use the Closed source driver right? | 19:31 |
Tenkawa | yes | 19:32 |
Tenkawa | anything you get from nvidia.com is going to be closed | 19:32 |
tuxd3v | hehe :) | 19:32 |
tuxd3v | yeah you right | 19:32 |
nemo | Tenkawa: I only really had issue running nouveau with Witcher. Everything else ran great... even stuff like, oh, Planetary Annihilation | 19:33 |
nemo | Tenkawa: and this was like 5 years ago | 19:33 |
nemo | Tenkawa: GL acceleration in firefox and other games and desktop ran fine | 19:33 |
iv4nshm4k0v | nemo: To me, the most interesting part of Wine is being able to build software for W32/W64 (as in: winegcc) from the comfort of my GNU/Linux system. Then perhaps testing software built that way. I can't think of any particular W32/W64-only application I'd need Wine for right now. | 19:33 |
nemo | Tenkawa: nowdays under AMD the only thing I seem to be missing in the distro packages is OpenCL, which I'm not in a huge hurry to try yet | 19:33 |
nemo | Tenkawa: games run great | 19:33 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: main one we need, aside from that one kid's game, is MS Office | 19:34 |
tuxd3v | Tenkawa, well I needed only the firmware from those files to use in the opensource driver :) | 19:34 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: regrettably, that is still a core tool for document exchange ☹ | 19:34 |
tuxd3v | the nouveau driver | 19:34 |
tuxd3v | this is the output of my extraction: https://paste.debian.net/1188746/ | 19:34 |
tuxd3v | its the same as previous one.. | 19:35 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: regrettably people are not even ok with google docs. even if they were fine with google having access to doc content - they just seem to expect exchanging revisions with history to be docx files | 19:35 |
Tenkawa | yes.. you don't need firmware | 19:35 |
HumanG33k | hello how can i test reboot of a chroot (if i can) | 19:36 |
Tenkawa | whats your lspci output? | 19:36 |
HumanG33k | and if not how can i log boot process | 19:36 |
nemo | reboot of a *chroot* ?? | 19:36 |
Tenkawa | HumanG33k: before you enter the chroot start up a script session | 19:36 |
nemo | Tenkawa: oh. glad you understood that. I thought he was trying to "reboot" a chroot while keeping the linux env active | 19:37 |
HumanG33k | bootlogd is already setup to yes but nothing in logfile | 19:37 |
iv4nshm4k0v | nemo: I think I've used MS Office for something like ten times over the past ten years. The folks around here tend to use Libreoffice instead when .docx is needed; though I was able to mostly go with plain HTMLs. | 19:37 |
Tenkawa | nemo: oddly it can be done | 19:37 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: lucky you | 19:37 |
Tenkawa | especially if you have kexec | 19:37 |
HumanG33k | Tenkawa, i can not really see how to do that | 19:37 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: lot of powerpoint and word docs over here, and I've tried using libreoffice, but thankfully I cross-checked in MS Office before handing off the result to anyone | 19:38 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: it's fine for basic layout but not for fiddly MS features unfortunately. or for several passes back and forth. | 19:38 |
Tenkawa | HumanG33k: just type script /home/youruser/somelogfile "your chrootcommand" | 19:38 |
nemo | iv4nshm4k0v: shame MS successfully got docx declared a standard | 19:38 |
Tenkawa | it will log everything you do | 19:38 |
HumanG33k | Tenkawa, i think i miss explain. | 19:39 |
Tenkawa | once you exit the chroot completely the script finishes | 19:39 |
iv4nshm4k0v | nemo: Well, there's a number of *TeX fans around where I work... | 19:39 |
Tenkawa | oh ok | 19:39 |
HumanG33k | a distant server not start | 19:39 |
Tenkawa | iv4nshm4k0v: still? | 19:40 |
Tenkawa | wow | 19:40 |
HumanG33k | on the disk but the rescue start by the provider work | 19:40 |
HumanG33k | so i chroot on it to check bootlog but nothing | 19:40 |
Tenkawa | HumanG33k: checking syslog/messages too I assume? | 19:40 |
Tenkawa | to make sure something isnt hanging it | 19:41 |
tuxd3v | Tenkawa, https://paste.debian.net/1188748/ | 19:42 |
HumanG33k | Tenkawa, nothing that can explain that | 19:43 |
HumanG33k | the last is the acpid signal | 19:44 |
HumanG33k | before it can not boot again | 19:44 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Tenkawa: Well, *TeX-based typesetting works, and works reasonably well, especially when the user isn't shy of coding. I moved to HTML, though, mainly because it being data, not code; and also because of its ubiquity (contrary to TeX, you don't need to accompany HTML with a bulky PDF for a casual user to be able to read the typeset version.) | 19:45 |
Tenkawa | tuxd3v: oh good.. same card I have | 19:46 |
Tenkawa | tuxd3v: its already running nouveau | 19:46 |
Tenkawa | its running the way it should | 19:47 |
Tenkawa | unless you "want" proprietary | 19:47 |
iv4nshm4k0v | (Though my HTMLs' look is influenced by article.cls.) | 19:47 |
tuxd3v | but.. when I play videos I wanted to have aceleratio for them :( | 19:47 |
tuxd3v | I mean support for the codecs | 19:48 |
Tenkawa | bad news: | 19:48 |
Tenkawa | Open-Source "Nouveau" Driver Now Supports NVIDIA Ampere - But Without 3D Acceleration Written by Michael Larabel in Nouveau on 14 January 2021 at 08:20 PM EST. 57 Comments | 19:48 |
Tenkawa | it just doesnt have it | 19:48 |
tuxd3v | yeah, but the firmware brings that option to the table ;) | 19:49 |
Tenkawa | no it doesnt! | 19:49 |
tuxd3v | now if I only got access to it.. | 19:49 |
tuxd3v | its in the documentation.. | 19:49 |
tuxd3v | https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/VideoAcceleration.html | 19:49 |
Tenkawa | if the driver doesnt support it .. it doesnt matter what the firmware supports | 19:51 |
Tenkawa | they "both" have to | 19:51 |
Tenkawa | the 2 distros that have it extracted it | 19:55 |
Tenkawa | Note that there is a script which performs the extraction from the blob directly, see VideoAcceleration. To extract from a blob version that is not supported by the script, you can try the below: | 19:55 |
Tenkawa | that was on the page | 19:55 |
Tenkawa | let me see if it works on a debian blob | 19:55 |
iv4nshm4k0v | JFTR, Nvidia firmware has the following bit in its license: | 19:55 |
iv4nshm4k0v | "2.1.2 Open Source Exception. Notwithstanding the foregoing terms of Section 2.1.1, SOFTWARE may be copied and redistributed solely for use on operating systems distributed under the terms of an OSI-approved open source license [...]" | 19:55 |
Tenkawa | you need to follow this procedure" | 19:56 |
Tenkawa | https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/NVC0_Firmware.html | 19:56 |
Tenkawa | and eww is it a mess | 19:56 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Which I suppose is why Debian is allowed to redistribute said firmware. | 19:57 |
Tenkawa | since you arent on Arch or Gentoo | 19:57 |
Tenkawa | heheh | 19:58 |
Tenkawa | wow thats scarier than some of my old cobol or assembly | 19:58 |
* Tenkawa notes this is one of the reasons he doesn't do much with graphics at all.. not worth the time | 19:59 | |
nemo | Tenkawa: well. gentoo has that firmware package | 20:02 |
nemo | Tenkawa: and... gentoo definitely has binary packages in general | 20:02 |
nemo | Tenkawa: https://packages.gentoo.org/packages/sys-firmware/nvidia-firmware that is | 20:03 |
Tenkawa | nemo: yeah the 2 I listed there say yse | 20:03 |
Tenkawa | er yes | 20:03 |
Tenkawa | those were the only 2 | 20:03 |
Tenkawa | according to the nouveau page | 20:03 |
Tenkawa | the rest had to be extracted manually | 20:03 |
nemo | oh... I guess I misread your statement as. "only debian works, not arch or gentoo" | 20:03 |
tuxd3v | nemo, its otherwise.. | 20:04 |
Tenkawa | If you are lucky, your distribution may already have a package for installing the firmwares. Here is a list of the supported distribution: | 20:04 |
Tenkawa | Archlinux Gentoo: sys-firmware/nvidia-firmware More to come | 20:04 |
Tenkawa | yeah | 20:04 |
Tenkawa | painful | 20:04 |
Tenkawa | I use the proprietary ver for that card and I can say at least they work really well | 20:05 |
nemo | well fortunately devuan and gentoo are the two distros I use at home. although, I purged intel CPUs and nvidia GPUs from all home machines last year | 20:05 |
tuxd3v | Tenkawa, yeah, that s a mess.. | 20:05 |
tuxd3v | and it goes even worst: | 20:05 |
tuxd3v | Note: These instructions were tested with 340.32. Other versions should work fine too, but if the firmware upload mechanism is too different, it will fail. If you want to extract Maxwell's firmwares, please use the 340.32. | 20:05 |
Tenkawa | version: 460.56 | 20:05 |
Tenkawa | these work great on that card | 20:06 |
tuxd3v | so I want pascal support not Maxwel | 20:06 |
tuxd3v | but remeber that I am in i686.. | 20:06 |
tuxd3v | :/ | 20:06 |
Tenkawa | true | 20:07 |
Tenkawa | I got a bit of a diff cpu | 20:07 |
Tenkawa | Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8750H CPU @ 2.20GHz | 20:07 |
Tenkawa | wow its 70/21 degrees here | 20:09 |
Tenkawa | about t ime | 20:09 |
tuxd3v | here its freezing.. | 20:09 |
Tenkawa | been arctic too long :( | 20:09 |
Tenkawa | tuxd3v: sorry to hear that | 20:09 |
Tenkawa | I know that pain | 20:09 |
tuxd3v | :) | 20:09 |
tuxd3v | we can't do nothing about it.. | 20:10 |
Tenkawa | I have been essentially stuck in my own house for a year now | 20:10 |
Tenkawa | makes it even worse | 20:10 |
tuxd3v | the Idea is Enjoy the summer, the most you can cos the winter will almost kill you | 20:10 |
tuxd3v | :) | 20:10 |
Tenkawa | I will be out on the bike a lot soon | 20:10 |
tuxd3v | well yeah, now we can even enjoy the summer, you right.. | 20:11 |
Tenkawa | just have to be ableto stay away from people as much as I can | 20:11 |
tuxd3v | my problem is the Police | 20:11 |
Tenkawa | (I have too many medical issues to take chances) | 20:11 |
tuxd3v | they charge 600€ minimum, if they got you in the street without a justification. | 20:11 |
Tenkawa | I'm doing great right now... I wat to keep it that way | 20:12 |
nemo | tuxd3v: O_o | 20:12 |
Tenkawa | nod. ouch | 20:12 |
tuxd3v | yeah, those suckers.. | 20:12 |
nemo | tuxd3v: "I'm going shopping" | 20:12 |
tuxd3v | nemo do you sure you can go shopping? | 20:12 |
tuxd3v | because here is everything closed.. | 20:13 |
nemo | wow | 20:13 |
tuxd3v | its like a desert.. | 20:13 |
nemo | tuxd3v: there's not even any pickup service? | 20:13 |
tuxd3v | seems that we are preparing for a apocaliptic war, or something.. | 20:13 |
nemo | tuxd3v: even when stores were closed here. pickup outside was always allowed | 20:13 |
nemo | but ofc that was a while ago | 20:13 |
tuxd3v | food you need to ask to the big food supliers they will deliver at your dor.. | 20:13 |
nemo | lame and expensive and unreliable | 20:14 |
nemo | I always used Safeway/Giant drive up and go, 'cause their home delivery always sucked | 20:14 |
nemo | would pull up at side of building, pop trunk, wait. | 20:14 |
Tenkawa | nemo: you must at least be in same country as I to have those stores lol | 20:15 |
tuxd3v | only people with an authorization can be in the street till 6pm | 20:15 |
nemo | Tenkawa: heh. USA yes | 20:15 |
Tenkawa | indeed | 20:15 |
tuxd3v | after 6pm everything completly shutdown | 20:15 |
tuxd3v | the stores are also closed | 20:15 |
nemo | Tenkawa: but yeah, tried their home delivery options. far more limited selection. far more product damage or errors. | 20:16 |
Tenkawa | Safeway was an institution growing up | 20:16 |
tuxd3v | but people with a justification, Imagine you need to go to a doctor.. | 20:16 |
nemo | Tenkawa: the drive up and go is almost same as doing it in-store. | 20:16 |
tuxd3v | then you can leave your house | 20:16 |
nemo | with no extra charge | 20:16 |
Tenkawa | nemo: ever heard of Meijer? | 20:16 |
tuxd3v | but if you go walk on the street Police finds you and they will charge big on you | 20:16 |
nemo | Tenkawa: nope. not in this area | 20:16 |
Tenkawa | great in store shopper then delivery here | 20:16 |
nemo | We have Aldi though | 20:16 |
Tenkawa | nemo: Aldi is great in Wisconsin area I think | 20:17 |
nemo | tuxd3v: oh. 6pm curfew. yeah. it's not that late here yet | 20:17 |
nemo | Wed 10 Mar 2021 02:17:22 PM EST | 20:17 |
nemo | ♥ /exec -out | 20:17 |
nemo | in fact... time for some vitamin D supplementation | 20:17 |
* Tenkawa is extremely photosensitive | 20:18 | |
tuxd3v | nemo you right, I take Calcitab D | 20:18 |
* Tenkawa has to wait for night | 20:18 | |
nemo | tuxd3v: no substitute for the real thing 😃 | 20:18 |
nemo | Tenkawa: hm... you korean? korean person I know w/ autoimmune issue is very photosensitive | 20:18 |
nemo | Tenkawa: was thinking it was possibly due to the immune system stimulating effects | 20:18 |
Tenkawa | nah... just really odd medicly | 20:19 |
Tenkawa | I'm almost completely colorblind though | 20:19 |
Tenkawa | thats 90% of it | 20:19 |
nemo | Tenkawa: ah. you must be a guy then ☺ | 20:19 |
Tenkawa | I can see in pitch black | 20:19 |
nemo | cool | 20:19 |
Tenkawa | yeah our cats hate it | 20:19 |
nemo | tons more rods? | 20:20 |
nemo | Tenkawa: checked your eyes for a tapetum lucidum? 😃 | 20:20 |
Tenkawa | they look at me and I stare right back and say "yes.... do you have something to say?" | 20:20 |
HumanG33k | humm there is a way to check networking service will start at boot ? | 20:21 |
Tenkawa | intriguing | 20:21 |
Tenkawa | ooh... lunchtime | 20:21 |
nemo | HumanG33k: you trying to make services conditional on network starting? | 20:21 |
Tenkawa | afk.. bbiaf | 20:21 |
tuxd3v | my dream now is a big number of people joined togueter and take on the Police, mas steal one of their boots, let them only with one, so that they needto walk with one foot on the fround.. they are charging 600€ only because A person is find in the street, they deserve that.. | 20:21 |
HumanG33k | nemo nop | 20:21 |
nemo | HumanG33k: so... just checking that the runlevel has network script in it? | 20:22 |
HumanG33k | just be sure the service will start and be well configure | 20:22 |
nemo | HumanG33k: that... sounds like a service run after network service to check it | 20:22 |
nemo | HumanG33k: so why not just add a script with a higher #? ☺ | 20:22 |
nemo | or dependant | 20:22 |
HumanG33k | currently the information i have are the following server start, go to login screen but no network (ping response) | 20:23 |
parinte | Helo. I installed devuan 3.1 with ventoy multiboot but cant start X automaticaly. Error: Not optimum mode. Recomended mode 1280x1024 60 Hz!? | 20:47 |
Tenkawa | now I feel better | 20:50 |
HumanG33k | nemo, do you know where and what name should have the network init script ? | 21:13 |
Tenkawa | HumanG33k: the scripts are in /etc/init.d | 21:15 |
HumanG33k | Tenkawa, i talk about rc lvl here | 21:16 |
Tenkawa | inittab | 21:16 |
Tenkawa | /etc/inittab default lvl calls the scripts (2 default on my system) | 21:18 |
Tenkawa | cd /etc/rc2.d | 21:18 |
Tenkawa | and they are all linked from there | 21:18 |
Tenkawa | thank you for mentioning that btw.. just realized I have some things I need to disable | 21:19 |
HumanG33k | Tenkawa, do you have networking in this dir ? rc2.d ? | 21:20 |
HumanG33k | or should it be start auto by other one ? | 21:20 |
Tenkawa | ls -l /etc/rc2.d/netw* | 21:21 |
Tenkawa | ls: cannot access '/etc/rc2.d/netw*': No such file or directory | 21:21 |
Tenkawa | they have to be S* | 21:21 |
HumanG33k | humm | 21:22 |
Tenkawa | but no.. neither 2 nor 3 | 21:22 |
HumanG33k | because i m on chroot i can not be sure it's start | 21:22 |
HumanG33k | yes it s look like normal to be in S | 21:23 |
Tenkawa | let me see where it does start | 21:23 |
HumanG33k | as specify | 21:23 |
Tenkawa | I'll trace the startup | 21:23 |
HumanG33k | in debian wiki | 21:23 |
Tenkawa | it starts in rcS | 21:23 |
HumanG33k | https://wiki.debian.org/fr/SysVInit | 21:24 |
Tenkawa | then the routes get added rcS.d/S14networking-routes | 21:24 |
Tenkawa | they are both in rcs | 21:24 |
Tenkawa | r rcS | 21:24 |
Tenkawa | networking and networking-routes | 21:25 |
Tenkawa | so let me catch up.. (my memory is spotty).. what is it doing improperly | 21:26 |
HumanG33k | Tenkawa, do you have a -f file ? | 21:28 |
HumanG33k | in rcS.d dir | 21:28 |
Tenkawa | just a sec | 21:28 |
Tenkawa | not specificly called "-f" no | 21:29 |
HumanG33k | ok understand auto complete updatercd command option | 21:30 |
Tenkawa | but I do have these | 21:30 |
Tenkawa | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 17 Mar 8 21:46 S01network -> ../init.d/network | 21:30 |
Tenkawa | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 27 Mar 8 21:47 S14networking-routes -> ../init.d/networking-routes | 21:30 |
fsmithred | that's correct | 21:30 |
fsmithred | oops | 21:30 |
fsmithred | ignore that | 21:30 |
HumanG33k | no networking-routes | 21:30 |
HumanG33k | for me | 21:30 |
Tenkawa | that might because I'm on dev | 21:31 |
Tenkawa | (unstable) | 21:31 |
HumanG33k | i do not understand why the starting of that serveur fuck up | 21:31 |
Tenkawa | happening consistently though right? | 21:32 |
HumanG33k | how can even go to login step but log nothing | 21:32 |
Tenkawa | very odd | 21:33 |
HumanG33k | there is a script somewhere to check/list default package for a neww installation ? | 21:36 |
HumanG33k | for beowulf | 21:37 |
gnarface | HumanG33k: you can do a new install and then run "dpkg -l" | 22:11 |
gnarface | HumanG33k: the list is subject to change based on time, installation choices, and the chosen hardware platform, so it's unlikely anyone bothered actually posting a default list elsewhere | 22:12 |
Tenkawa | gnarface: yeah thats the kicker... its always in flux | 22:13 |
Tenkawa | soon as they make a bugfix the versions change and even sometimes the dependencies | 22:13 |
Tenkawa | dpkg --get-selections/--set-selections / apt-get dselect-upgrade is my friend | 22:15 |
gnarface | HumanG33k: if you're missing logging functionality, install rsyslogd or syslog-ng | 22:15 |
iv4nshm4k0v | IME it's possible to a. make a list of "must-have" packages and b. use APT to fill in the dependencies. | 22:15 |
gnarface | HumanG33k: (if you're missing that, you're probably missing logrotate too, so make sure to check for it) | 22:15 |
Tenkawa | iv4nshm4k0v: yeah thats what I just posted | 22:15 |
Tenkawa | shows your installed and lets you rebuild with it | 22:16 |
Tenkawa | very handy | 22:16 |
Tenkawa | of course the dpkg database has to match very close/almost identical or you will get errors | 22:17 |
Tenkawa | (versions, deprecated pkgs, etc) | 22:17 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Tenkawa: My point is that you can configure APT on one system install in such a way so that it will find out all the packages you need for a fresh install, possibly of a different version or distribution. | 22:17 |
Tenkawa | iv4nshm4k0v: yeah dpkg -l | awk heehee | 22:18 |
Tenkawa | write it to a file and apt-get install it :) right? | 22:18 |
Tenkawa | that works pretty effectively | 22:19 |
Tenkawa | config files are going to be his conundrum | 22:20 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Tenkawa: How's that going to work when you run $ dpkg on one version (you have) and need a package list for another (you wish to install)? | 22:20 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Cf., e. g., $ apt-get -o Debug::NoLocking=true -o Dir::State::status=/dev/null -t testing -d install -- apg bash busybox coreutils ... unzip zstd 2>&1 | less -UF | 22:20 |
Tenkawa | you can have multiple sources in sources.list | 22:21 |
Tenkawa | they dont have to be installed | 22:21 |
Tenkawa | to query | 22:21 |
Tenkawa | and why so much extra debug... with -d nothing gets run | 22:22 |
Tenkawa | so its extraneous | 22:23 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Tenkawa: And what, exactly, would you be getting from $ dpkg -l ? That some package is installed and some other is not? $ apt-get -t version ... will report what specific packages are needed for that specific version. Provided said version is in sources.list, right. | 22:23 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Tenkawa: -d means "download-only". | 22:23 |
Tenkawa | yes | 22:24 |
Tenkawa | and -d is going to just run so why have all of the extra debug output? | 22:25 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Tenkawa: # apt-get -t newversion install -- package will upgrade your system to newversion; on the contrary, $ apt-get -t newversion -d install -- package will just /download/ the package, along with all its dependencies, from newversion. | 22:25 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Tenkawa: Huh? What "extra debug output" are you talking about? | 22:25 |
Tenkawa | just a sec | 22:26 |
Tenkawa | you are telling it to disable file locking | 22:27 |
Tenkawa | there wont be any | 22:27 |
Tenkawa | not for a download | 22:27 |
Tenkawa | -o Debug::NoLocking=true | 22:27 |
Tenkawa | thats extraneous | 22:27 |
Tenkawa | just wondered why you were y=using it | 22:28 |
Tenkawa | er using | 22:28 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Tenkawa: Because it doesn't work without that: $ apt-get install -- tmux => E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend - open (13: Permission denied) E: Unable to acquire the dpkg frontend lock (/var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend), are you root? | 22:30 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Tenkawa: You don't want to /accidently/ upgrade your system, now do you? | 22:30 |
Tenkawa | try that again with this first: | 22:31 |
Tenkawa | DEBIAN_FRONTEND=readline | 22:31 |
Tenkawa | you are also aren't root from that error | 22:33 |
Tenkawa | and thats "valid" | 22:33 |
Tenkawa | I dont see root or sudo | 22:33 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Tenkawa: That's the point: I can't install packages as non-root, but I can very well download them. Good failsafe, IMO. | 22:33 |
Tenkawa | no.. you should "not" be able to download them as | 22:34 |
Tenkawa | I wouldnt allow a non-rootuser to | 22:34 |
Tenkawa | thats a major security rosk | 22:34 |
Tenkawa | er risk | 22:34 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Tenkawa: Even with Wget? | 22:35 |
Tenkawa | they dont touch /usr or /var | 22:35 |
Tenkawa | (except /var/tmp and /usr/tmp and I have no choice there) | 22:35 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Tenkawa: Neither does apt-get, when suitably configured. | 22:35 |
Tenkawa | apt must always write in "/var/cache/apt/archives/" and "/var/lib/apt/lists/partial/" | 22:37 |
Tenkawa | unless you are rewriting variables | 22:37 |
Tenkawa | in /etc | 22:37 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Tenkawa: $ apt-get -o Dir::Cache::Archives="$HOME"/apt-archive | 22:37 |
Tenkawa | its all a kludgey mashup heheh | 22:39 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Tenkawa: Also, $APT_CONFIG takes precedence over /etc/apt/apt.conf ; it may just as well be set to ~/.apt.conf . | 22:39 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Tenkawa: Works for me. | 22:40 |
Tenkawa | *apt/dpkg" | 22:40 |
Tenkawa | I wish this would just combine it into one "combined" tool | 22:40 |
Tenkawa | and make it work better | 22:40 |
Tenkawa | I've used it since Debian itself was created and it still pains me | 22:41 |
Tenkawa | (coming from Slackware though thats still an improvement) | 22:41 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Tenkawa: Can't say I see the point; dpkg deals with packages, both the "installed packages" and "package files" parts. APT tracks database of available packages; IME it's pretty easy to use it separately, with little to no relation to at least /var/lib/dpkg. (I'm not even sure APT is at all concerned with .deb files or it can do anything that has a good-looking Packages file entry.) | 22:44 |
Tenkawa | agreed apt is only a frontend but its a good one (for us commandline users) | 22:45 |
Tenkawa | put some consistency between the 2's syntax | 22:45 |
Tenkawa | but hey.. they work | 22:46 |
Tenkawa | now I wish I would've picked up a CM4 when they were easier to get | 22:48 |
Tenkawa | nowhere to be found around here now | 22:48 |
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