| Turbo_Tech | there are a lot of things that might be implicated at lowering immune function. Many might come down to hormone signaling of genes. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| joerg | himesama: you got a point there, covid largely is a over-reaction of immune system aiui, however the most vulnerable elderly have a very weak immune system. Sounds paradox | 00:00 |
| vesihiisi | .title https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html | 00:00 |
| Brainstorm | vesihiisi: From www.cdc.gov: Risk for COVID-19 Infection, Hospitalization, and Death By Age Group | CDC | 00:00 |
| joerg | oooh | 00:01 |
| LjL | heh | 00:01 |
| Turbo_Tech | LED lights are shown to lower melatonin levels which is a hormone and one of the most powerful anti oxidants we know of. Vitamin d is another hormone that is responsible for signaling over 900 genes in the human body. | 00:02 |
| Turbo_Tech | It is actually closer to 3000 | 00:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Kenya bans in-person meetings, public gatherings as COVID surges → https://is.gd/ybd5UH | 00:02 |
| LjL | Turbo_Tech, why would LED lights do that? | 00:02 |
| joerg | Turbo_Tech: s/LED/blue and white LED/ | 00:02 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58021911 | 00:02 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.bbc.com: Nanjing: New virus outbreak worst since Wuhan, say Chinese state media - BBC News | 00:02 |
| Turbo_Tech | Because people can not put their phones down at night and their TV's are now LED. they leave them on constanly. | 00:03 |
| LjL | i mean, my *lightbulbs* are LED | 00:03 |
| LjL | i didn't think their output substantially differed from that of CFL bulbs, except for being less shitty | 00:03 |
| nixonix | awhile ago i asked here, can china contain the indian variant, if it starts to spread there. soon we will see | 00:04 |
| Turbo_Tech | Blue light Sorry but in teh spectrum. https://www.livescience.com/53874-blue-light-sleep.html#:~:text=become%20a%20problem.-,Research%20has%20found%20that%20exposure%20to%20blue%20light%20suppresses%20the,to%20this%20type%20of%20light. | 00:04 |
| nixonix | they have their tracking apps | 00:04 |
| joerg | it's some special blue light receptors in eyes inhibiting melatonine production | 00:04 |
| joerg | LjL: indeed CFL are equally bad | 00:04 |
| joerg | particularly cold white | 00:05 |
| joerg | and "daylight" | 00:05 |
| LjL | 2700K bulbs are common | 00:05 |
| Turbo_Tech | Melatonin is very important in our bodies. | 00:05 |
| LjL | if you use >2700K ones except for select purposes, then your eyes are way more tolerant than mine | 00:05 |
| LjL | i'd rather not supplement melatonin though | 00:07 |
| himesama | my impression is that monitor ccfls have a wider spectrum (and higher frequency and not a square wave) but blue and white leds have a definitely enormous impact on pretty much precisely where the melatonin triggering occurs on the spectrum. something like 400nm but don't quote that. (white is just blue with yellow coating that doe snot do a good job.) | 00:07 |
| LjL | last time i tried, i slept horribly with nightmares and then felt crap the entire day | 00:07 |
| himesama | idk about ligh bulbs. oled might be betgter. | 00:07 |
| himesama | i can't seem to find a good low dose melatonin | 00:08 |
| LjL | himesama, i don't know what exactly you mean by low dose, but at some point i found drops where to take 1g you'd have to take, like... i don't know, several drops. so you could take one tenth of that or so | 00:09 |
| LjL | with pills that's trickier | 00:09 |
| joerg | himesama: >>white is just blue with yellow coating<< well, actually it's "phosphor" that converts blue into lower frequency longer wavelength colors of light | 00:09 |
| LjL | ↑ that's a little different | 00:09 |
| LjL | and i remembered that's also how CFL bulbs work | 00:10 |
| joerg | yep | 00:10 |
| joerg | though their "pumping light source" is mercury which creates much more UV light and less blue light | 00:10 |
| LjL | joerg, but does it matter if you don't *see* it, but see it after being "converted" to different frequencies by the phosphors? | 00:11 |
| himesama | drops are a bit too fiddly | 00:11 |
| joerg | no, only what you see does matter | 00:11 |
| himesama | white leds as used in monitor backlights are --- the output of such --- almost perfectly set up to be really bad for melatonin. take a look at some of the spectra. | 00:12 |
| himesama | so the yellow coating, whether it is phosphorescent or not, or shifts anything or not, does not seem to do a good enough job | 00:12 |
| joerg | on LEDs the phosphor emits a relatively good spectrum from read to greenish, the blue gets filled in by genzuine quasi monochromatic blue LED shining through | 00:12 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/ https://archive.is/AcvHU | 00:13 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.washingtonpost.com: - The Washington Post | 00:13 |
| LjL | joerg, hmm so you still get to see a peak of monochromatic blue? | 00:13 |
| nixonix | * ‘The war has changed’: Internal CDC document urges new messaging, warns delta infections likely more severe | 00:13 |
| Turbo_Tech | Guys have a good night. I have to work tonight. Thank you for having me. | 00:13 |
| LjL | Turbo_Tech, good night | 00:14 |
| joerg | himesama: actually it doesn't, you''re right. And it can't since the "pump" light source of LEDs is visible blue which is hard to convert into visible blue with slightly longer wavelength | 00:14 |
| LjL | nixonix, we've seen that before, on the other hand you've missed the daily mail's threat of killing one human out of three | 00:14 |
| nixonix | tell me if you can or cant download those slides, pdf link. it was a mess with archives | 00:15 |
| himesama | you can see it if you compare wled backlights to rgb backlights for example (look in search engine image view) | 00:15 |
| nixonix | if you cant, ill find the working link for it | 00:15 |
| LjL | Turbo_Tech, i read your document, to me it seems reasonable to boost vitamin D to above "bare minimum" levels, i am not really competent on the rest | 00:15 |
| joerg | LjL: (peak of blue) yes | 00:15 |
| joerg | Turbo_Tech: good night, see you soon again here :-) | 00:16 |
| Turbo_Tech | Thank you for reading it. NLRP3 Inflammasome is a potential target for Sars CoV-2 infection. Just so happens diets long term in concentrated sugar also activate the inflammasome in a similar way Covid 19 does. If my hypothesis is correct, we may have set ourselves up here in the US because of our diet to have higher rates of bade Sars CoV-2 cases. | 00:17 |
| nixonix | this tweet should have link to those slides. theres some comments in the thread too https://twitter.com/Bob_Wachter/status/1420974027112292354 | 00:18 |
| Turbo_Tech | Fructose has the ability to reprogram the important monocyte on a pathway toward inflammation and Sars CoV-2 can exploit the weakness. | 00:18 |
| LjL | joerg, oh so this is where the chickenpox comparison *ultimately* comes from i guess, https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/cdc-breakthrough-infections/94390e3a-5e45-44a5-ac40-2744e4e25f2e/?_=1 page... 15, i think? | 00:19 |
| joerg | CDC internal paper "leaked"? | 00:19 |
| LjL | apparently | 00:20 |
| LjL | i read the article before, i hadn't read the PDF | 00:21 |
| joerg | I seen a CDC paper mentioned and shown in TV a few hours ago, showing "severity" of transmission of different diseases compared to genuine and Delta SARS-COV2 | 00:21 |
| joerg | a pink(?) and blue rectange box, the blue delta next to a dot labeled "chickenpox" I guess | 00:22 |
| LjL | yes, that's the page i'm talking about | 00:22 |
| LjL | it may be 16, not 15 | 00:22 |
| joerg | :nod: I guessed that must have been the root source | 00:22 |
| LjL | it's funny the graph itself, in the CDC paper, is credited to the New York Times, February 2020 :) | 00:23 |
| LjL | i guess they added the blue box though | 00:23 |
| joerg | wut? lol | 00:23 |
| de-facto | pdf link? | 00:23 |
| LjL | https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/cdc-breakthrough-infections/94390e3a-5e45-44a5-ac40-2744e4e25f2e/?_=1 | 00:23 |
| joerg | CDC losers | 00:23 |
| LjL | i wouldn't go as far as losers, but... i'd have figured they have their own graph-producing abilities :P | 00:25 |
| de-facto | https://context-cdn.washingtonpost.com/notes/prod/default/documents/54f57708-a529-4a33-9a44-b66d719070d9/note/7335c3ab-06ee-4121-aaff-a11904e68462.#page=1&pagemode=none&toolbar=1&statusbar=1 | 00:25 |
| * joerg hums F.Z "flakes" https://youtu.be/tiQPkfS2Q84 | 00:25 | |
| joerg | LjL: yep | 00:25 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/alzheimer-s-covid-coronavirus-neurological-symptoms-b1893283.html | 00:27 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.independent.co.uk: Alzheimer’s disease signs seen in Covid patients suffering neurological symptoms | The Independent | 00:27 |
| himesama | is chickenpox a guidepost to infectivity? | 00:28 |
| joerg | nixonix: damn!!! I actually would diagnose exactly this on myself, if only... my "covid" episode was not in early 2018 already | 00:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Lancet (Online): [Comment] COVID-19 vaccines for children in LMICs: another equity issue: Given the success of COVID-19 vaccines in preventing death and severe disease in adults1 and their impact on community transmission,2 use in children and young people (CYP) inevitably requires consideration. Although severe COVID-19 is rare in CYP,3 [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/N4SeEz | 00:33 |
| himesama | lmic? | 00:34 |
| joerg | no idea,let us know if you find out | 00:37 |
| joerg | less than minimum in come? | 00:38 |
| joerg | latin maroc indian countries? | 00:38 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Queue three documents into the unsorted file ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/7cb70699411641683cb80751696963da46245075 ) | 00:40 | |
| ploni[m] | <himesama> "lmic?" <- low-income and middle-income countries | 00:40 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95025-3 | 00:41 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nature.com: Rates of SARS-CoV-2 transmission and vaccination impact the fate of vaccine-resistant strains | Scientific Reports | 00:41 |
| LjL | nixonix, "They found that memory problems were linked to loss of smell, but not to the severity of Covid-19 infection." ← silver lining to Delta being worse in most ways, but causing smell loss less often (allegedly)? | 00:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : Queue three documents into the unsorted file: At least two of them are almost certainly deserving of ending up into the main list, and maybe the Washington Post leak should be in News with or without the PDF linked directly (probably without), but I should read them more carefully for describing their contents → https://is.gd/BiX0oL | 00:43 |
| nixonix | a finnish neurologist and chief physician says around 30% gets long covid, but only about 4% those vaccinated (how about after 6 months or more?) | 00:54 |
| nixonix | translator used: Symptoms of prolonged disease include, for example, fatigue, difficulty breathing, fever, impaired stress tolerance, impaired taste or smell, and other neurological symptoms. According to Roine, who treated long covid patients, the symptoms usually go away in 6-12 months, but even in a small proportion of Finnish patients they have | 00:54 |
| nixonix | lasted for up to a year and a half | 00:54 |
| nixonix | - Fatigue prevents them from returning to work and most of them have symptoms of tachycardia, which means that the pulse can rise to more than 140 at rest or even with a little exertion. Cognitive impairment can also be so disruptive that, for example, driving a car is not possible. It is possible that for some patients the condition will remain | 00:54 |
| nixonix | permanent. | 00:54 |
| nixonix | by 6 months or more, i meant waning vaccine protection | 00:55 |
| nixonix | https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&u=https://www.iltalehti.fi/terveysuutiset/a/b1367256-1f2f-4339-b722-7f45ec57ebb8 | 00:55 |
| nixonix | .title https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33988001/ | 00:59 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: COVID-19 Endothelial Dysfunction Can Cause Erectile Dysfunction: Histopathological, Immunohistochemical, and Ultrastructural Study of the Human Penis - PubMed | 00:59 |
| nixonix | 💉 | 01:00 |
| nixonix | those considerations on causality concerning alzheimer signs, reminded me of these i think ive linked here before: | 01:04 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.10.21252820v1.full | 01:04 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: Mapping the human genetic architecture of COVID-19 by worldwide meta-analysis | medRxiv | 01:04 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01827-w | 01:04 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nature.com: The quest to find genes that drive severe COVID | 01:04 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.statnews.com/2021/07/08/gene-hunters-turn-up-new-clues-to-help-explain-why-covid-19-hits-some-people-so-hard/ | 01:05 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.statnews.com: Gene hunters turn up new clues about Covid-19 - STAT | 01:05 |
| LjL | do many viral diseases have so many disparate and scary possible consequences, or is COVID just designed to frighten me | 01:06 |
| nixonix | those most severe usually have low R. like MARV | 01:07 |
| nixonix | i was just thinking today earlier, could it be possible that SARS2 became as severe, while maintaining high transmissibility | 01:08 |
| nixonix | what was the source for that daily mail article? | 01:08 |
| LjL | nixonix, https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/long-term-evolution-of-sars-cov-2-26-july-2021 | 01:09 |
| twomoon | ooo that's actually a pretty good overview especially for impatient readers ljl | 01:19 |
| LjL | that's why i added it to the list of things to be added to my list of things | 01:20 |
| LjL | y'all fans of what i add should have Brainstorm's git commit messages on highlight or just monitor the repo, because i still suspect mostly nobody reads my page :P | 01:21 |
| nixonix | its just that so many new shit is coming every day, hard to keep up so that you wouldnt miss something super important | 01:22 |
| nixonix | when it slows down some day, ill have a good look there | 01:23 |
| nixonix | i meant super interesting | 01:23 |
| LjL | you post a lot of stuff, and others too... i only add some of them, probably a very small percentage overall, even though the page is still long. it's entirely my subjective choice of what seems important or useful to a reader, and i have no qualifications so nobody should necessarily value my selection over any other. i'm just saying for those who sometimes seem to, then maybe they should use the page :P | 01:25 |
| nixonix | if not some MERS-like severity and high transmissibility would be likely or even possible, it could also change so that age would be much less a factor | 01:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Vietnam: +8649 cases (now 137062), +298 deaths (now 1161) since 23 hours ago | 01:29 |
| LjL | i have a feeling Delta is already doing that :( | 01:29 |
| LjL | either making age directly less of a factor, or just being so much more severe that kids are starting to be affected, at least in some places, in serious ways | 01:29 |
| nixonix | also, whether it would be due to antigenic sin or ADE, a variant that existing immunity against older variants would make symptoms more severe than in naive infection | 01:32 |
| de-facto | i think delta is more capable to initially replicate in the upper respiratory tract, hence the 1k-fold viral load and crazy high infectiousness | 01:32 |
| nixonix | like with dengue (although i think its not that it happens to everybody, but some people) | 01:33 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.08.447308v1 | 01:33 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.biorxiv.org: The ChAdOx1 vectored vaccine, AZD2816, induces strong immunogenicity against SARS-CoV-2 B.1.351 and other variants of concern in preclinical studies | bioRxiv | 01:33 |
| de-facto | "We demonstrate AZD2816 is immunogenic after a single dose and when used as a booster dose in animals primed with original vaccine AZD1222, we see no evidence of original antigenic sin but high titre antibodies against a number of variant spike proteins" | 01:33 |
| twomoon | thanks you for existing and taking care of shit ljl | 01:34 |
| LjL | why is everyone thanking me today | 01:34 |
| nixonix | i was thinking about that, when pfizer didnt seem too eager to release updated vaccine, if they were worried about that | 01:34 |
| twomoon | "the list of things to be added to my list of things" lol | 01:34 |
| LjL | twomoon, yeah this https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/blob/master/unsorted.txt | 01:35 |
| LjL | it's basically a personal todo list / reminder, but public because chances i'll never do the todos | 01:35 |
| nixonix | btw has moderna said something about vaccine spesifically against 617.2? | 01:37 |
| LjL | i'm not sure, i wonder too... i remember them saying something about a "one-shot" vaccine that would include the newfound Wuhan sequences, when that was in the news | 01:40 |
| LjL | so by inference, they must have a multivalent vaccine in the work | 01:40 |
| LjL | but i found no direct statement of it | 01:40 |
| de-facto | BioNTech does a Delta signature update | 01:41 |
| nixonix | newfound Wuhan sequences? | 01:42 |
| nixonix | yeah, pfizer/bnt has, but moderna | 01:42 |
| nixonix | pfizer started recruinting already, or do they start in august? i was wondering how long it will take it to come out from production line (if all goes well) | 01:43 |
| LjL | nixonix, some early sequences from Wuhan that are different from what we thought was the "wild type" virus and that resurfaced somehow. honestly i haven't kept pointers to it, didn't care overly much | 01:43 |
| de-facto | i think moderna had some update against Beta, Astrazeneca also against Beta and BioNTech now does one against Delta | 01:44 |
| nixonix | moderna is using them for their updated vaccine? why? | 01:44 |
| nixonix | yeah moderna has against SA variant, but i dont think its spreading much nowdays (although it should work well against P.1 too) | 01:45 |
| de-facto | i am curious about Lambda variant | 01:46 |
| de-facto | it seems to increase in Germany under the name C.37 | 01:46 |
| de-facto | despite Delta taking over all the other variants, Lambda is able to slowly increase | 01:47 |
| de-facto | .title https://imgur.com/a/3ZJvXBN https://i.imgur.com/NSIDKVl.png src: https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Situationsberichte/Wochenbericht/Wochenbericht_2021-07-29.pdf?__blob=publicationFile | 01:47 |
| LjL | nixonix, my understanding was they just wanted to make a vaccine covering as many variants as are known, basically. but really i'm sorry i don't remember where and when i read this, so i don't have any real details. i remember they literally used the term "one-shot", if that helps searching | 01:47 |
| nixonix | .title https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6539/227 | 01:49 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From science.sciencemag.org: The dream vaccine | Science | 01:49 |
| de-facto | hmm wait something is wrong with my last statement, let me investigate | 01:50 |
| de-facto | its Gamma not Lambda | 01:53 |
| de-facto | the Brazilian VoC P.1 | 01:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Extroverted, self-centred men less likely to comply with Covid restrictions, study suggests → https://is.gd/0Ld4Ro | 01:56 |
| nixonix | https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1419887785205370883/photo/1 | 02:00 |
| nixonix | does that dream vaccine article open for you? (it has bunch of scripts - but maybe its paywalled) | 02:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +3938 cases (now 1.9 million), +5 deaths (now 17962) since 23 hours ago — France: +18792 cases (now 6.1 million), +29 deaths (now 111880) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +734 cases (now 1.4 million) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +79 deaths (now 129696) since 23 hours ago | 02:31 |
| nixonix | .title https://chemistry-europe.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cbic.202000728 | 02:46 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From chemistry-europe.onlinelibrary.wiley.com: Ferritin as a Platform for Creating Antiviral Mosaic Nanocages: Prospects for Treating COVID‐19 - Honarmand Ebrahimi - 2021 - ChemBioChem - Wiley Online Library | 02:46 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nigeria: +590 cases (now 173411), +8 deaths (now 2149) since 23 hours ago — Bulgaria: +346 cases (now 424872), +3 deaths (now 18211) since a day ago — Norway: +344 cases (now 137471) since 23 hours ago | 03:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Aruba: +67 cases (now 11651) since a day ago | 04:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Nanjing: New virus outbreak worst since Wuhan, say Chinese state media → https://is.gd/I8sAKp | 04:20 |
| LjL | if China can't control it anymore, i think we don't stand a chance | 04:26 |
| himesama | i wonder if somebody someplace on earth is going to go and take some highly contagious currently harmless (but could recombine or become harmful) virus and stick epitopes on it | 04:30 |
| himesama | are the adenovirus vectors transmissible? | 04:31 |
| LjL | himesama, they're not meant to be, but there were accusations that some batches of Sputnik contained replicating adenovirus (but then they probably didn't contain actual working vaccine...) | 04:32 |
| himesama | so they do not replicate even in the body? | 04:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for St. Barthelemy: +190 cases (now 1195) since a month ago | 04:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Study: Vaccinated people can carry as much virus as others → https://is.gd/ie24i4 | 04:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Thailand: +18912 cases (now 597287), +178 deaths (now 4857) since 23 hours ago — France: +18571 cases (now 6.1 million), +37 deaths (now 111895) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +29686 cases (now 5.8 million), +75 deaths (now 129713) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +3680 cases (now 1.9 million), +5 deaths (now 17963) since 23 hours ago | 05:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Canada official: Fourth Covid-19 wave possible if steps not taken → https://is.gd/G7TmvA | 05:11 |
| LjL | himesama, no | 05:19 |
| LjL | the replication machinery has been replaced with the spike protein making machinery | 05:19 |
| himesama | so it sits around in muscle interstitium until wbc notice it and attack it or something? | 05:24 |
| himesama | are there any masks that don't get wet (they evaporate or something) or even if they do are ok even if not as effective as normal? | 05:25 |
| LjL | it enters cells, it makes spike proteins, when the cell bursts open presumably everything attacks everything | 05:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mexico: +19346 cases (now 2.8 million), +459 deaths (now 240456) since 22 hours ago | 05:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 787: COVID-19 clinical update #73 with Dr. Daniel Griffin: In COVID-19 clinical update #73, Daniel Griffin reviews updated mask guidance from CDC, infections in public school district employees, effectiveness of vaccines against delta variant, antibody response after third vaccine dose in kidney transplant [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/bDtwtx | 06:14 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +1764 cases (now 1.1 million), +6 deaths (now 25241) since 23 hours ago — France: +32 deaths (now 111897) since 23 hours ago | 07:11 |
| pas23 | %cases UK | 07:27 |
| Brainstorm | pas23: In United Kingdom, there are 5.8 million confirmed cases (8.8% of all people) and 129713 deaths (2.2% of cases) as of 2 hours ago. 244.1 million tests were done (2.4% positive). +29686 cases, +75 deaths since 23 hours ago. See https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ | 07:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Two more parts of China report Covid outbreaks. Includes Chongqing with a population of 30 million. → https://is.gd/mRWubl | 07:27 |
| pas23 | %cases China | 07:29 |
| Brainstorm | pas23: In China, there are 98882 confirmed cases (0.0% of all people) and 4742 deaths (4.8% of cases) as of 2 hours ago. 160.0 million tests were done (0.1% positive). Fatality can be expected to lie between 0.5% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 4.7% (considering only deaths and recoveries). +50 cases since 23 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=China | 07:29 |
| Brainstorm | pas23: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about China, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 07:29 |
| pas23 | %cases Peru | 07:32 |
| Brainstorm | pas23: In Peru, there are 2.1 million confirmed cases (6.6% of all people) and 196214 deaths (9.3% of cases) as of a day ago. 15.5 million tests were done (13.6% positive). Fatality can be expected to lie between 4.5% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 8.6% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Peru | 07:32 |
| Brainstorm | pas23: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Peru, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 07:32 |
| pas23 | %cases NL | 07:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Florida, United States: +110724 cases (now 2.6 million), +409 deaths (now 39079) since 6 days ago — Pakistan: +4950 cases (now 1.0 million), +65 deaths (now 23360) since a day ago — Missouri, United States: +3957 cases (now 683802), +9 deaths (now 10081) since 23 hours ago — Sindh, Pakistan: +2862 cases (now 380093), +24 deaths (now 5971) since 23 hours ago | 07:34 |
| Brainstorm | pas23: In Netherlands, there are 1.9 million confirmed cases (10.8% of all people) and 17965 deaths (1.0% of cases) as of 3 seconds ago. 15.8 million tests were done (11.9% positive). +3430 cases, +6 deaths since 23 hours ago. See https://coronadashboard.government.nl/ | 07:34 |
| pas23 | %cases germany | 07:41 |
| Brainstorm | pas23: In Germany, there are 3.8 million confirmed cases (4.5% of all people) and 91991 deaths (2.4% of cases) as of 5 hours ago. 67.1 million tests were done (5.6% positive). Fatality can be expected to lie between 2.0% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://corona.rki.de/ or https://corona-data.eu/en/ | 07:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Disney makes vaccination mandatory for on-site US employees → https://is.gd/ftxiZK | 08:31 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +41649 cases (now 31.6 million), +529 deaths (now 423623) since 15 hours ago — Germany: +2457 cases (now 3.8 million), +30 deaths (now 92161) since 20 hours ago | 08:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | July 31, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/CABu0g | 09:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Uzbekistan: +924 cases (now 129327), +8 deaths (now 874) since a day ago | 09:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: COVID-19 cases surge in Sydney as police cordon deters protest → https://is.gd/v6Jphh | 10:03 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +17 deaths (now 26592) since 7 hours ago | 10:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Inhaled dry powder formulation of broad-spectrum antiviral against COVID-19 and influenza → https://is.gd/Fzx1pQ | 10:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: 10 precautionary measures for diabetics amid pandemic → https://is.gd/JzoNVp | 11:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Estonia: +249 cases (now 133557) since 23 hours ago | 11:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: China is witnessing its worst outbreak since Wuhan: How it happened → https://is.gd/fUoCTn | 11:46 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Malaysia: +17786 cases (now 1.1 million), +165 deaths (now 9024) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +2336 cases (now 3.8 million) since 21 hours ago | 12:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Finland: +794 cases (now 106802) since a day ago | 13:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: AstraZeneca aims to finally gain FDA approval of its COVID vaccine this fall → https://is.gd/hU2pCI | 13:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Malaysians stage anti-government protest despite COVID-19 curbs → https://is.gd/nRyjch | 14:00 |
| de-facto | .title https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/adtp.202100059 | 14:07 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From onlinelibrary.wiley.com: Inhaled Dry Powder Formulation of Tamibarotene, a Broad‐Spectrum Antiviral against Respiratory Viruses Including SARS‐CoV‐2 and Influenza Virus - Liao - 2021 - Advanced Therapeutics - Wiley Online [...] | 14:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Delta Variant Rampant in Asia; Tokyo, Thailand, Malaysia Post Record COVID Infections → https://is.gd/c4Okwq | 14:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 2 Georgian judoka ejected from Olympics for violating COVID protocols → https://is.gd/DtWlTJ | 14:42 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Laos: +623 cases (now 6299), +1 deaths (now 7) since 23 hours ago — Iceland: +158 cases (now 7959) since a day ago — Nepal: +2280 cases (now 695389), +23 deaths (now 9857) since a day ago — Faroe Is.: +1 cases (now 983), +1 deaths (now 2) since a day ago | 15:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Calls for ‘freedom’: The anti-lockdown protests across Australia and cop action to stop ‘superspreader’ rallies → https://is.gd/fqubPs | 15:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: New deadlier coronavirus variant that could kill one in three infected people 'a realistic possibility', SAGE warns → https://is.gd/a9DgTH | 16:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China reports 55 new COVID-19 cases as Delta variant spreads from Nanjing → https://is.gd/dvNd0P | 16:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canadian Travelers Fined $20,000 Each After Crossing into Canada From The US With Fake Vaccine Proof → https://is.gd/futbqc | 16:41 |
| joerg | looks interesting https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-07-inhaled-powder-broad-spectrum-antiviral-covid-.html | 16:41 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bangladesh: +9369 cases (now 1.2 million), +218 deaths (now 20685) since a day ago — Germany: +1947 cases (now 3.8 million) since 23 hours ago | 17:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from LitCovid: (news): What lessons does the COVID-19 pandemic hold for global alcohol policy? → https://is.gd/FtUN5F | 17:12 |
| lunatunes | does anyone know of any cdc data that shows that its mostly unvaccinated people who are ending up in the hospital from the delta variant ? | 17:44 |
| Didigy[m] | <lunatunes> "does anyone know of any cdc data..." <- Make sure any CDC numbers don't use statistical sleight of hand as they seem to be doing in the UK - https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/07/29/87-percent-covid-deaths-are-vaccinated-people/ | 17:50 |
| lunatunes | Didigy[m]: can you explain further how they are messing with the data? | 17:53 |
| lunatunes | I saw an article recently where there was an outbreak but the math in the outbreak wasn't explained so it looked like vaccinated people were still getting infection much more. | 17:54 |
| lunatunes | this small hand written chart helped a lot of people with this specific info though https://i.imgur.com/JFPRsMh.jpg | 17:55 |
| lunatunes | i wish more places would do the same | 17:55 |
| vysn | lunatunes: nowadays and for most people it is becoming harder and harder to differentiate fact from fiction | 17:59 |
| lunatunes | vysn: very true. just got into a debate with a friend because of all the misinformation. Seemed like no matter how much data I showed her what she heard in conversation was more true. | 18:02 |
| vysn | yup. and soon you realize that any effort to convince them otherwise is futile | 18:03 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +25754 cases (now 5.9 million) since 15 hours ago — North Macedonia: +81 cases (now 156380) since 22 hours ago | 18:04 |
| lunatunes | Yeah. Its like she is seriously trying to talk me out of getting the vaccine. | 18:04 |
| vysn | lunatunes: I find it easier to just fixate on hard tangible things like software and source code :D | 18:05 |
| lunatunes | vysn: I wish I knew how to code. I would take all the new data as it comes in and put it on a site. Now I don't see any new sites popping up. The old ones just tell infections in general. Not vacc vs non-vacc. | 18:09 |
| LjL | vysn, i find the article you've been linked to is sensationalistic and clearly aimed towards making one thing vaccines are dangerous (before even getting into the COVID maths, it mentions how 5000 people have died in Scotland within 28 days after getting the vaccine, which when you put it like that is just a random meaningless fact, but you read it and it's chilling). that said, i don't know about the US although i think i read yesterday that Delta is prevalent in | 18:10 |
| LjL | the US now as well, realistically with Delta people do get infected and some of them also do get hospitalized - the vaccine still has a high protective effect on that, but unfortunately, not nearly as high as it was originally | 18:10 |
| LjL | sorry, that was aimed at lunatunes | 18:10 |
| vysn | ok. you got me doubting myself there for a second lol | 18:11 |
| lunatunes | LjL: I didn't like to that article at all | 18:12 |
| LjL | lunatunes, you may be interested in this article https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/ if you aren't already aware. there is a link in it to a supposedly leaked CDC PDF. it doesn't say anything really groundbreaking, but they acknowledge that "the war has changed" (their words) with Delta. | 18:12 |
| lunatunes | link* | 18:12 |
| LjL | lunatunes, i said "you have been linked to" | 18:12 |
| lunatunes | oh okay | 18:12 |
| LjL | there are indications that Delta is more severe than Alpha. to me this means that being vaccinated is even more important. just because vaccination efficacy is no longer what it was initially shouldn't make people go "meh, whatever then, i won't even get the vaccine". some people reason like that but it's not very rational. at the same time, it would be dangerous to think you're almost completely protected with a vaccine, especially now with Delta, so i'd rather | 18:14 |
| LjL | people be aware that the efficacy has gone down. | 18:14 |
| lunatunes | yeah | 18:17 |
| LjL | "Public Health Scotland have again been quite clever in how they’ve presented the above data because they’ve tried to reduce the severity of the numbers seen in the vaccinated by displaying the number against how many people have been vaccinated. The same as they have attempted to increase the severity of the numbers seen in the unvaccinated by displaying the number against how many people have not been vaccinated. But those numbers are irrelevant." ?? | 18:17 |
| LjL | ? why would they be irrelevant? they are extremely relevant. to make the standard, obvious example, if 100% of the population were vaccinated, 100% of the remaining cases, hospitalizations and death would be in the vaccinated population | 18:17 |
| lunatunes | from my understanding the symptoms vs hospitalization and death are very different when it comes to being vaccinated and coming in contact with the delta. | 18:17 |
| lunatunes | Like more are getting symptoms with delta but still not as many ending up dead. | 18:18 |
| LjL | lunatunes, as far as i know that's correct, and even without looking into the Scottish numbers better from other sources, that very article confirms it: consider that they've been saying for a long time that "vaccinated" means "fully vaccinated", as with Delta in particular, a single shot just isn't enough. from the numbers of the last week listed in the hospitalization table, 0.006% of vaccinated people were hospitalized, while among the unvaccinated or only | 18:25 |
| LjL | partially vaccinated people, that's 0.022. that means you have 3.7 times the odds of ending up in hospital if you're vaccinated than if you aren't. that's still much less than i get from other analyses, and it would actually seem to show better protection from infection than from hospitalization once infected, so it may deserve a better look, but it still shows a protective effect from the vaccine | 18:25 |
| LjL | lunatunes, i've got to say though i don't particularly like the rhetoric i've heard from the US that's like "it's a pandemic of the unvaccinated, 99% of the hospitalizations (or deaths or whatever) are in the unvaccinated". even if that was true at some point, it's not true with Delta, and Delta was already around and poised to take over when those things were repeated. once people see that's just no longer true, they may be perplexed, and on the other hand if | 18:29 |
| LjL | they *don't* see it's no longer true, they may take too many risks. | 18:29 |
| lunatunes | I honestly waited so late to get the vaccine cause of blood disorders you hear about and females bleeding longer and more than usual after getting vaccinated. but from what i found out those same things can happen if you catch covid, in fact more likely to happen with covid. | 18:29 |
| LjL | lunatunes, yes, the whole reason i've barely cared about the vaccine side effects is that pretty much all of them can happen with COVID, they are more likely, and more things can happen with COVID too | 18:30 |
| lunatunes | LjL: yeah I keep telling family members they could still spread it and catch it even though they are vaccinated. I can only say that the only family members I've seen in the hospital so far are the unvaccinated but I wouldn't say its impossible either cause its not. | 18:31 |
| LjL | lunatunes, also the Really Serious blood disorders that happen are with the AstraZeneca vaccine, which isn't used in the United States (and the EU is pretty much phasing it out too at the moment). similar events have occurred with J&J but at a much lower rate | 18:31 |
| lunatunes | Yeah the only thing that concerned me the most was the bleeding since I already battle anemia lol | 18:32 |
| LjL | AFAIK there is thrombosis reported with Pfizer and Moderna, but 1) it's not the devastating kind that has been (rarely) reported with AZ, and 2) regular thrombosis is kind of the opposite of bleeding, while the AZ thing is a strange condition where thrombosis happens together with thrombocytopenia i.e. lack of coagulation blood cells | 18:34 |
| lunatunes | I was trying to find the numbers with it but I'm thinking there aren't as many so they aren't really doing too much data on it. | 18:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +6509 cases (now 4.4 million), +16 deaths (now 128063) since 22 hours ago | 18:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: West African health officials race to vaccinate amid spikes → https://is.gd/eLr35J | 19:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid: Pulse oxygen monitors work less well on darker skin, experts say → https://is.gd/XH1XhP | 19:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Delta variant fuels record COVID-19 infections in Tokyo, Thailand, Malaysia → https://is.gd/HLI1Sh | 19:58 |
| finely[m] | <vysn> "yup. and soon you realize that..." <- Its very natural for people to look at other around them for what to do in a crisis.. Its called social proof. Many will do this instead of listening to experts or evaluating evidence. Perhaps the best approach for these people is to just share your positive experiences with vaccination and let them see the misinformation is wrong. | 20:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: As Covid-19 cases surge, Thai hospital uses containers to store bodies → https://is.gd/r3kA2c | 20:41 |
| LjL | Thailand had almost no COVID until recently... now it's spiking terribly | 20:44 |
| Arsanerit | :( | 20:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Officials in Tokyo alarmed as COVID-19 cases hit record highs → https://is.gd/odGQOC | 20:52 |
| LjL | https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/ovcc4d/officials_in_tokyo_alarmed_as_covid19_cases_hit/ people on reddit, as usual, make quite cheap comments I think | 20:56 |
| LjL | "olympics bad blah blah who could have expected blah blah" | 20:56 |
| LjL | except the spike has nothing to do with the olympics | 20:56 |
| LjL | unless the virus has defeated causality | 20:56 |
| LjL | what's the study that's the source of https://www.reuters.com/world/us/majority-covid-19-cases-large-public-events-were-among-vaccinated-us-cdc-study-2021-07-30/ ? also is it related to the leaked CDC document? | 21:21 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +31 deaths (now 111911) since 19 hours ago | 21:38 |
| LjL | evening ublx | 21:44 |
| ublx | \o | 21:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Spanish Court Targets Chilean Bank Tied to Pinochet: Spurred by victims of Gen. Augusto Pinochet’s regime, the court has reopened an investigation into whether Banco de Chile helped the former Chilean dictator launder money → https://is.gd/YPFxXJ | 22:10 |
| rpifan | finally | 22:12 |
| rpifan | pinochet was one of the most brutal dictators of the 20th century and no one has basically touched him | 22:12 |
| himesama | nice | 22:15 |
| himesama | i was surprised at the low value of reddit comments recently. i only click once a month or so but always assumed some channels had high usefulness comments or the rating mechanism would bubble them up. | 22:16 |
| himesama | low-effort comment seems to be a wrong term for low usefulness though. surely there are high usefulness comments that are low effort like, e.g. "nk has launched missiles, here is a link". | 22:17 |
| himesama | to me it would be better to say usefulness (or even s/n) | 22:18 |
| LjL | okay let's play "what's the regex that made Brainstorm think that was a COVID link" | 22:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Aruba: +79 cases (now 11730) since 18 hours ago | 22:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Vaccination must remain a personal choice’: Bavaria’s minister fends off attacks for refusing the jab → https://is.gd/lsNcOu | 22:55 |
| himesama | are there any repeated geographic patterns usable to predict? like asia first or latitudes or seasons or vaccination rates x<n<y or age distribution? | 23:01 |
| Turbo_Tech | Afternoon | 23:23 |
| xrogaan | %title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01449-9 | 23:38 |
| Brainstorm | xrogaan: From www.nature.com: Immune responses against SARS-CoV-2 variants after heterologous and homologous ChAdOx1 nCoV-19/BNT162b2 vaccination | Nature Medicine | 23:38 |
| xrogaan | Don't know if this has been shared before. | 23:39 |
| xrogaan | As I understand it, mix ChAdOx1-nCov-19 / BNT162b2 maybe not be a great idea. | 23:40 |
| LjL | himesama, well my comment is now showing at the top for me and other comments also mention the Olympics are probably unrelated after all, and a few comments cheaply blaming the Olympics are below 0 | 23:41 |
| LjL | xrogaan, why not? i don't remember if it was *this* one that was shared before, but afaik, AZ + Pfizer/Moderna gave the strongest immune response | 23:42 |
| himesama | so it's the reddit readership being not great then? | 23:43 |
| xrogaan | the paper seems to say otherwise. | 23:43 |
| LjL | the paper seems to say the same to me | 23:43 |
| LjL | they took all people who had gotten ChAdOx1 (AstraZeneca) as first shot | 23:43 |
| LjL | then those people took either another one of those, or BNT (Pfizer) | 23:43 |
| LjL | "Although both vaccines boosted prime-induced immunity, BNT162b2 induced significantly higher frequencies of spike-specific CD4+ and CD8+ T cells and, in particular, high titers of neutralizing antibodies against the B.1.1.7, B.1.351 and P.1 variants of concern of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2." | 23:44 |
| himesama | why do we keep hearing that the whole purpose of vax was never to lower r? i thought that was the purpose initially or at least with other vaccines. | 23:44 |
| LjL | BNT gave more T cells against the spike and even more antibodies against variants of concern | 23:44 |
| LjL | i'm sure there were also some more side effects, but, that kinda seems worth it...? | 23:44 |
| Turbo_Tech | What is everyones background here? | 23:45 |
| LjL | himesama, i don't know, de-facto always says that these vaccines are designed to boost IgG and not IgA, plus you'd need mucosal (nasal) vaccines to stop the disease entirely... but in my opinion and according to previous tentative studies i've seen, *before Delta*, the vaccines were doing a decent job just stopping the disease and partly also transmission | 23:45 |
| xrogaan | LjL: the efficacy against some variant seem reduced. | 23:46 |
| LjL | xrogaan, where does it state that? | 23:47 |
| Arsanerit | I thought the vaccines were doing a decent job against delta. | 23:47 |
| himesama | what is the difference between igg and iga in this case? | 23:47 |
| xrogaan | LjL: two paragraphs down in the "Main" section. | 23:48 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, i might agree on "decent", but that's a low bar | 23:48 |
| Arsanerit | as in, very few hospitalisations and essentially no deaths? | 23:48 |
| LjL | xrogaan, do you mean where it says "Antibodies induced by BNT and ChAd vaccines efficiently neutralize the B.1.1.7 variant, and the neutralization of P.1 and B.1.351 variants seems to be reduced11,12,13. Moreover, BNT vaccination has been shown to be approximately 13% and 28% less protective against development of symptomatic COVID-19 for variants B.1.1.7 and B.1.351, respectively"? | 23:49 |
| xrogaan | Yes. | 23:50 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, "essentially no death" is not a phrase i'd use when people are definitely dying, even when vaccinated, as few as they might be. a while ago 1/3 of the deaths in the UK were among vaccinated people, and i'm not aware that it has improved. | 23:50 |
| himesama | are there any percentages on long covid for delta? | 23:50 |
| himesama | vax or no vaxed | 23:50 |
| LjL | xrogaan, well, that's just a a background paragraph that's talking about the individual vaccines, as i read it. *then* it goes on to talk about heterologous vaccination. | 23:50 |
| Arsanerit | LjL: oh, ok | 23:50 |
| LjL | it's saying that the vaccines aren't as efficacious on the variants as on the wild type, and basically that's an introductory reason as to why it might be worthwhile trying something else (although they mention the main reason the EU "tried something else" was just that AZ got banned for younger people) | 23:52 |
| Arsanerit | is it better for Comirnaty than for Vaxzevria? | 23:52 |
| Arsanerit | AZ banned? | 23:52 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, i don't know | 23:52 |
| Arsanerit | I missed that, I thought it was still approved but no longer recommended. | 23:52 |
| specing | you can still get vaccinated with AZ here | 23:52 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, i was using "banned" loosely | 23:53 |
| specing | but many decline it due to side effects | 23:53 |
| LjL | basically it's no longer used for those categories of people, with details varying by country | 23:53 |
| Arsanerit | right | 23:53 |
| specing | so the public unannounced vaccinations don't use it | 23:53 |
| Arsanerit | We're told that in Germany there's no longer a shortage of mRNA vaccines. | 23:53 |
| LjL | i don't think there's currently a shortage anywhere in the EU | 23:53 |
| LjL | AZ on the other hand had delivery problems, and then those added to the adverse effects issues, and the EU got a bit mad at AZ for allegedly not respecting the contract, add these things together, and i don't think we'll see much more AZ used in the EU in the future | 23:54 |
| xrogaan | misunderstood the thing then, thanks LjL | 23:56 |
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