| nixonix | did the quote above show as a bold there, as it did for me? somehow i tried to paste the same in a file, and it doesnt show any control codes in hex view (i dont even know what they are in this web client) | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| nixonix | gday | 00:02 |
| nixonix | ah turbo, that one might interest you (i think you were that melatonin dude). repasting https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/954481 | 00:05 |
| TurboTech | Yall going to make me log into my Medscape account. LOL | 00:09 |
| TurboTech | Too Late | 00:09 |
| nixonix | Thiamine deficiency plays a major role in malnutrition in critically ill patients, which leads to the inability to create adenosine triphosphate (ATP), inability to use oxygen, high-output cardiac failure, cardiovascular collapse and death when untreated | 00:10 |
| nixonix | sounds a bit too rosy, but who knows | 00:13 |
| himesama | is that from a paper about melatonin? | 00:14 |
| TurboTech | It's a retrospective study. they will tear it apart because big pharma is not behind it. | 00:14 |
| TurboTech | No t directly | 00:14 |
| himesama | t=thiamine here? | 00:14 |
| TurboTech | Not | 00:15 |
| TurboTech | sorry about the space | 00:15 |
| himesama | ah | 00:15 |
| himesama | :) | 00:15 |
| TurboTech | Not directly about melatonin | 00:15 |
| nixonix | Additionally, an in-vitro study found that high-dose thiamine lowers the T-helper cells (Th-17) cell pro-inflammatory response believed to be associated with the COVID-19 cytokine storm | 00:15 |
| TurboTech | So basically any drunk who comes in to the hospital will get thiamine in a bannana bag and be protected from Covid. | 00:15 |
| TurboTech | LOL | 00:15 |
| himesama | are you saying here that the total dose (including all ingredients) of a single dose of pfizer is 30 vs. 100 in moderna? --- 14:17 <nixonix> have they compared ab titers between pfizer and moderna? when they are very similar but moderna has 100 Mcg and pfizer 30, does moderna produce higher titers on average? | 00:17 |
| nixonix | mrna content of the dose | 00:17 |
| himesama | oh | 00:18 |
| nixonix | otherwise pretty similar, nanoparticles or tech behind them from the same company. proline substitutes by kariko. different poly-a tails ofc, so ab titer differencies would be interested | 00:19 |
| nixonix | and i remember seeing they have one amino acid difference, in ofr supposedly. is it pfizers luciferace, or how they do it? | 00:19 |
| nixonix | *would be interesting | 00:20 |
| nixonix | amino acid, meaning the resulting protein then... | 00:22 |
| himesama | so judging from the abstract you'd hvav to be in hospital and it wold be added to a bunch of other things? i was hoping you could megadose at home orally | 00:25 |
| nixonix | Since March last year, the country has banned its citizens from leaving the country as part of its Covid strategy. That restriction has not previously applied to Australians who usually live in other countries. But they will now need to apply for an exemption for outbound travel - in line with rules for other Australians. | 00:26 |
| nixonix | yeah, maybe it will work if you stay home until you are critical... | 00:27 |
| nixonix | meaning thiamine, not ozzies | 00:27 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-24979-9 | 00:35 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nature.com: Seven-month kinetics of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies and role of pre-existing antibodies to human coronaviruses | Nature Communications | 00:35 |
| nixonix | "pre-existing cross-reactive HCoVs antibodies could have a protective effect against SARS-CoV-2 infection and COVID-19 disease | 00:36 |
| nixonix | and for cross-reactive t-cells it can be the other way around... like was hypotized in that another study i linked couple weeks ago | 00:37 |
| nixonix | hypothesized. damn its a hard word | 00:38 |
| nixonix | let it be hypotized from now on | 00:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Lancet (Online): [Comment] Optimising SARS-CoV-2 vaccination schedules: The objective of any vaccination strategy is to achieve long-term protection against infection and also to reduce the mortality and morbidity associated with the eventual development of disease. This dual perspective usually requires repeated immunisations. Several [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/2cNP3j | 00:41 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2021.660490/full | 00:49 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.frontiersin.org: Frontiers | The Hyperlipidaemic Drug Fenofibrate Significantly Reduces Infection by SARS-CoV-2 in Cell Culture Models | Pharmacology | 00:49 |
| nixonix | both molecules have multiple mechanisms. rbd destabilization, ace2 dimerization, cytokines, platelets and something else on top | 00:50 |
| nixonix | az and jansen should combine forces, like az planned to use another component of sputnik as another dose for its different vector | 00:54 |
| nixonix | also update them against indian variant, and fix that thrombi shit | 00:54 |
| specing | EU should import sputnik | 00:58 |
| himesama | i hope scientific clinical and antibody etc. data for vaccines are possible to compare against one another | 01:02 |
| himesama | that might be a good argument for trying most vaccines in most places where such data gathered | 01:02 |
| nixonix | .title https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/05/politics/covid-origins-genetic-data-wuhan-lab/index.html | 01:11 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From edition.cnn.com: Wuhan lab: In Covid origins hunt, US intel agencies scour reams of genetic data from China - CNNPolitics | 01:11 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.08.447308v1 | 01:11 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.biorxiv.org: The ChAdOx1 vectored vaccine, AZD2816, induces strong immunogenicity against SARS-CoV-2 B.1.351 and other variants of concern in preclinical studies | bioRxiv | 01:11 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/first-covid-19-variant-vaccine-azd2816-phase-ii-iii-trial-participants-vaccinated.html | 01:12 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.astrazeneca.com: First COVID-19 variant vaccine AZD2816 Phase II/III trial participants vaccinated | 01:12 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bulgaria: +549 cases (now 427481), +8 deaths (now 18251) since a day ago | 01:36 |
| TurboTech | So how much research have you guys done into 2013 when China was sending in guys to scour horseshoe bat caves trying to find as many variants as possible? | 01:38 |
| TurboTech | I hate to say it, but I think Peter Daszac is Dirty as all get out. | 01:39 |
| TurboTech | This guy literally headed the WHO investigative team and he was in Wuhan doing major studies at the Wuhan Institute for years prior to the outbreak. (Conflict of interest) | 01:42 |
| himesama | wasn't that the guy caught doing stuff behind scenes? | 01:42 |
| himesama | that reminds me, is the original variant naturally-occuring? if so then why has it not gotten to humans before? | 01:42 |
| himesama | or does this all depend on intermediate hosts? | 01:42 |
| TurboTech | Well they sent guys into caves for years looking for variants. | 01:50 |
| TurboTech | No they found that it does not need an intermediate host to affect humans. | 01:50 |
| TurboTech | I wrote about this. | 01:51 |
| TurboTech | www.254allstars.com/sarscov2.html | 01:51 |
| TurboTech | 4th paragraph | 01:52 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Add AstraZeneca B.1.351 booster press release ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/864ebad59db0631fdda1f3f374d12161d7052af8 ) | 01:53 | |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add AstraZeneca B.1.351 booster press release → https://is.gd/9sVbyp | 01:55 |
| TurboTech | Not only did they know that it could transmit directly to humans, they also knew that standard vaccines provided no protection. | 01:57 |
| TurboTech | But the CDC and NIH seems to make people believe they did not see anything like this coming. They were caught behind the 8ball. | 01:58 |
| TurboTech | I do not believe it. | 01:58 |
| himesama | n.b. chapel hill is the flagship univ of unc | 02:01 |
| TurboTech | Yes | 02:01 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for St. Barthelemy: +141 cases (now 1336), +1 deaths (now 2) since 6 days ago — Vietnam: +8324 cases (now 193381), +296 deaths (now 3016) since 23 hours ago — Bermuda: +25 cases (now 2614) since 2 days ago | 02:01 |
| himesama | you said univ ofg chapel hill :) | 02:01 |
| himesama | so what do you believe? is it plausible to believe that a pandemic is in somebody's interest and that .. they would create their own vaccine or so beforehand? | 02:02 |
| TurboTech | I do not think so. Not for the vaccine. | 02:03 |
| himesama | or are you just saying they knew and were so stupid they ignored it? that's plausible. | 02:03 |
| TurboTech | I do not think this was ignored. I think all they had to do was find something that they found interesting and just hold on to i. | 02:03 |
| TurboTech | it | 02:03 |
| LjL | never assume stupidity when you can assume malicious stupidity | 02:03 |
| TurboTech | They found so many variants | 02:04 |
| TurboTech | 30-60 | 02:04 |
| TurboTech | that we know of. | 02:04 |
| himesama | say in different words? --- 17:03 <TurboTech> I do not think this was ignored. I think all they had to do was find something that they found interesting and just hold on to i. | 02:04 |
| TurboTech | The wuhan lab was doing research on these in BSL2 labs. | 02:05 |
| TurboTech | standard desktop | 02:05 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/about | 02:05 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.centerforhealthsecurity.org: About Event 201, a high-level pandemic exercise on October 18, 2019 | 02:05 |
| de-facto | Domain: Registrant Organization: The Johns Hopkins University | 02:05 |
| de-facto | "Event 201 simulates an outbreak of a novel zoonotic coronavirus transmitted from bats to pigs to people that eventually becomes efficiently transmissible from person to person, leading to a severe pandemic." | 02:06 |
| de-facto | so that sounds to me like they knew pretty well such a thing could happen | 02:07 |
| TurboTech | Even befor than | 02:07 |
| TurboTech | then | 02:07 |
| himesama | i did not get this --- 17:04 <himesama> say in different words? --- 17:03 <TurboTech> I do not think this was ignored. I think all they had to do was find something that they found interesting and just hold on to i. | 02:08 |
| TurboTech | Again they knew this did not need an intermediate host back in 2016 | 02:08 |
| TurboTech | Did you see that they had reports that 6 people got it directly? | 02:08 |
| TurboTech | Let me get the link from my page | 02:09 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/nature12711 | 02:09 |
| himesama | my trouble with omega 3 is that even refrigerated i don't seem to go throuhg it quickly enough to supposedly be rancidity-free | 02:09 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nature.com: Isolation and characterization of a bat SARS-like coronavirus that uses the ACE2 receptor | Nature | 02:09 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nature.com: Isolation and characterization of a bat SARS-like coronavirus that uses the ACE2 receptor | Nature | 02:09 |
| LjL | himesama, i think he's simply saying that they silently studied it in the lab because it was interesting, and that was it | 02:09 |
| himesama | ok. so some scientists knew and did nothing. or perhaps they published but then authorities did nothing. | 02:10 |
| TurboTech | Title. doi:10.1007/s12250-018-0012-7 | 02:10 |
| TurboTech | title. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29500691/ | 02:10 |
| LjL | that's .title or %title | 02:11 |
| TurboTech | sorry | 02:11 |
| LjL | although i don't have the smarts to title a DOI directly | 02:11 |
| LjL | %title https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29500691/ | 02:11 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Serological Evidence of Bat SARS-Related Coronavirus Infection in Humans, China - PubMed | 02:11 |
| TurboTech | .title https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29500691/ | 02:11 |
| Brainstorm | TurboTech: From pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Serological Evidence of Bat SARS-Related Coronavirus Infection in Humans, China - PubMed | 02:11 |
| himesama | are there definitions of containment someplace? | 02:11 |
| TurboTech | This is so crazy because some really important people knew this could happen. | 02:12 |
| TurboTech | And they try to play innocent. | 02:12 |
| LjL | some people know climate change "could" happen, and they're still playing innocent and doing virtually nothing about it | 02:13 |
| himesama | what would the best preparedness plan contain? | 02:13 |
| LjL | and by some people i mean a lot | 02:13 |
| TurboTech | In the 2013 study from Wuhan on the Sars Like Viruses, they literally thanked the the NIH and Fauchis group in the acknowledgments. | 02:13 |
| himesama | this --- 17:13 <LjL> some people know climate change "could" happen, and they're still playing innocent and doing virtually nothing about it | 02:13 |
| himesama | i have been watching carl sagan videos. he was spot on. | 02:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID Zotero group: The ChAdOx1 vectored vaccine, AZD2816, induces strong immunogenicity against SARS-CoV-2 B.1.351 and other variants of concern in preclinical studies: Type Journal Article Author Alexandra J. Spencer Author Susan Morris Author Marta Ulaszewska Author Claire Powers Author Reshma Kailath Author Cameron Bissett Author Adam [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/fKbbpX | 02:16 |
| TurboTech | Ok notice that Peter Daszaks name is on this study at the end and then read the Acknowlegments; | 02:16 |
| TurboTech | .title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5389864/ | 02:16 |
| Brainstorm | TurboTech: From www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Isolation and characterization of a bat SARS-like coronavirus that uses the ACE2 receptor | 02:16 |
| TurboTech | This is from 2013 | 02:17 |
| TurboTech | We acknowledge financial support from the State Key Program for Basic Research (2011CB504701 and 2010CB530100), National Natural Science Foundation of China (81290341 and 31321001), Scientific and technological basis special project (2013FY113500), CSIRO OCE Science Leaders Award, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) award number R01AI079231, a National Institutes of Health (NIH)/National Science Foundation | 02:17 |
| TurboTech | SF) ‘Ecology and Evolution of Infectious Diseases’ award from the NIH Fogarty International Center (R01TW005869), an award from the NIH Fogarty International Center supported by International Influenza Funds from the Office of the Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services (R56TW009502), and United States Agency for International Development (USAID) Emerging Pandemic Threats PREDICT. The contents are the responsibi | 02:17 |
| TurboTech | ty of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the views of NIAID, NIH, NSF, USAID or the United States Government. We thank X. Che from Zhujiang Hospital, Southern Medical University, for providing human SARS patient sera. | 02:17 |
| TurboTech | NiH and NIAID | 02:18 |
| himesama | usaid is interesting to see there | 02:18 |
| himesama | they sort of go around and do stuff in other countries | 02:19 |
| himesama | are there, say, thousands of variants and viruses and other pathogens that are as bad and as likely? if so, then the issue is generic preparedness. | 02:19 |
| TurboTech | yeah and just so happens were shit starts. LOL | 02:19 |
| himesama | note that niaid is completely different | 02:19 |
| TurboTech | Yes, but that is Faucis group | 02:20 |
| TurboTech | He is the heat | 02:20 |
| TurboTech | head | 02:20 |
| TurboTech | Sorry the wine took over. | 02:20 |
| TurboTech | Drink red wine it has resveritrol in it. | 02:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID Zotero group: NIAID Statement on AstraZeneca Vaccine: Type Web Page URL https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/niaid-statement-astrazeneca-vaccine Date 2021-03-23T00:11:07-04:00 Accessed 2021-08-07 00:23:27 Language EN Abstract Late Monday, the Data and Safety Monitoring Board (DSMB) notified NIAID, BARDA, and AstraZeneca that it [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8YFRxF | 02:26 |
| himesama | what are the mrna efficacy at preventing severe disease? | 02:27 |
| himesama | (looking at note saying jj is 85% effectiveness in preventing severe disease) | 02:27 |
| TurboTech | Hey guys, listen, you all have a great weekend. I will be around in and out. Be well all. | 02:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID Zotero group: Sanofi: Press Releases, Friday, December 11, 2020: Type Web Page URL https://www.sanofi.com/media-room/press-releases/2020/2020-12-11 07-00-00 2143517 Accessed 2021-08-07 00:33:27 Language en Abstract Read the latest news about our company Website Title [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/yF8Jrl | 02:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +19398 cases (now 6.3 million) since 21 hours ago — China: +98 cases (now 99503) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +2420 cases (now 1.9 million), +7 deaths (now 18000) since 21 hours ago — Canada: +1042 cases (now 1.4 million) since 21 hours ago | 02:38 |
| LjL | himesama, what note? with what variants? | 02:43 |
| himesama | some github note | 02:49 |
| de-facto | .title https://virological.org/t/the-molecular-clock-of-variants-of-concern/736 | 02:49 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From virological.org: The molecular clock of variants of concern - SARS-CoV-2 Molecular Evolution - Virological | 02:49 |
| de-facto | https://virological.org/uploads/short-url/incDy8dDAtTQpMhW6ABPf7xkaKI.pdf | 02:52 |
| de-facto | they try to predict emergence of VoCs from early signs in mutation rate of sequences submitted in phylogenetic tree | 02:53 |
| de-facto | work in progress, but damn pretty cool | 02:53 |
| LjL | himesama, that 85% for J&J was from an average of US and South Africa trial, hard to tell how much the SA variant influenced data. early data for Pfizer and Moderna hinted at nearly 100% efficacy against hospitalization (which some of them even boasted stupidly much, you should never write "100%" in a press release) | 02:56 |
| LjL | right now Israel thinks that Pfizer/BNT has about a 90% efficacy against severe/ICU/death with Delta | 02:56 |
| LjL | and 80%-something against hospitalization | 02:56 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Note that Google has firmly committed AGAINST maintaining open source… ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/57cb4f0e200a7e03a90bc8fe42bbeb29a90ba54d ) | 02:58 | |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Note that Google has firmly committed AGAINST maintaining open source… → https://is.gd/rB4cwl | 02:58 |
| himesama | i could try to obtain a used vial of mrna vaccine and put it on my skin as a less-dangerous but still dangerous test to see if i react, but which parts degrade at room temperature? | 03:09 |
| himesama | i saw something really mordant about google and fb and open source's lack of concern | 03:10 |
| himesama | probably this. perhaps you ahve all seen it but i was out of the loop: https://ar.al/2019/01/11/i-was-wrong-about-google-and-facebook-theres-nothing-wrong-with-them-so-say-we-all/ | 03:12 |
| himesama | idk anything about context but that first item hits hard | 03:13 |
| TurboTech | California might pass Texas and Florida by Tues. | 03:13 |
| himesama | in proportion? | 03:14 |
| himesama | "The FSF is the world’s foremost defender of software freedom. The Software Freedom Conservancy “is a not-for-profit charity that helps promote, improve, develop, and defend Free, Libre, and Open Source Software (FLOSS) projects.” This month, The Software Freedom Conversancy is organising CopyLeft Conference sponsored by Google, Microsoft, and the FSF. In fact, Google is such a force for good in the world that | 03:15 |
| himesama | they are allowed to sponsor a CopyLeft conference even though they ban CopyLeft licenses at their company." | 03:15 |
| TurboTech | =-O | 03:18 |
| LjL | to be fair, they ban one specific copyleft license (the AGPL) that other people, including myself, have a bit of a problem with | 03:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: Latest posts: Emergence of Y453F and Δ69-70HV mutations in a lymphoma patient with long-term COVID-19: A development of this study has now been published as preprint: SARS-CoV-2 escape from cytotoxic T cells during long-term COVID-19 | Research Square → https://is.gd/o6UsUo | 03:29 |
| LjL | what difference is there, pathogen evolution-wise, between an immunocompromised patient like the above, and someone who has received a vaccine that does a "meh" job of actually keeping the infection out? | 03:32 |
| * LjL can't get it out of his head that the original "problematic" mutations emerged in countries where AZ was doing trials | 03:32 | |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Fr. Polynesia: +654 cases (now 22459), +2 deaths (now 157) since a day ago | 03:40 |
| nixonix | idk, should read a bit more about those immunocompromised cases, but maybe its a bit like in bats, immune response doesnt clear the virus, that just stays at least in some cells and keeps mutating, while cytokine storm isnt that strong that it kills | 03:54 |
| * de-facto thinks AZ wanted to finish trials quickly hence choose regions with high incidence, thereby already breeding with maximum speed on variants | 03:56 | |
| nixonix | weak vaccine clears it, but slower than better vaccine, so cytokine storm does its damage | 03:57 |
| nixonix | some day ill find out if novavax allows b-cell maturation to happen after the 2nd dose. i have a plan | 03:59 |
| nixonix | ...for that (reference to nancy pelosi, was it) | 04:00 |
| nixonix | no, it was elizabeth warren, who repeated that | 04:01 |
| de-facto | maybe its just by evolution that any booster stops maturation of previous b-cells because it looks like a breakthrough infection, hence should broaden antigenic affinity in order to prevent next potential breakthrough? | 04:02 |
| de-facto | something like "oops optimization went wrong, lets try again" | 04:03 |
| OrTh0DoX | https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/first-fully-vaccinated-man-dies-111044677.html | 04:05 |
| OrTh0DoX | Amen to this man! | 04:05 |
| himesama | sounds heterodox to me | 04:06 |
| LjL | the URL says "first"... the actual headline doesn't [anymore] | 04:06 |
| LjL | but it seems a bit surreal to me how US media are still basically posing as if you can't die when vaccinated | 04:06 |
| LjL | but then it actually says down below "WOWK reported that there have been 31 vaccine breakthrough deaths in West Virginia since the vaccine rollout programme began, which translates to 1.3 per cent of coronavirus deaths in the state." | 04:07 |
| LjL | is Delta not widespread yet that they can pretend it doesn't exist while luring more people towards vaccination? evidently not, but they seem to be trying anyway | 04:07 |
| OrTh0DoX | is first in the county | 04:08 |
| nixonix | its probably lack of Tfh cells, that are needed in light zones of germinal centers for selection of b-cells when they interact with Tfh for antigen binding | 04:09 |
| nixonix | and then selected migrate back to dark zones for dublication and more somatic hypermutation (if it happens several times, im not sure) | 04:09 |
| nixonix | b=p | 04:10 |
| nixonix | yeah sure it happens, as long as maturation happens. im tired | 04:12 |
| nixonix | why exactly the second dose of some vaccines stops it, is another question and im not sure if its known why | 04:13 |
| nixonix | and if its the same mechanism thats called original sin | 04:14 |
| nixonix | when they dont really understand that. they arent even sure if that dengvaxia problem was due to OAS or ADE | 04:15 |
| LjL | %wik dengvaxia | 04:16 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: Dengue vaccine is a vaccine used to prevent dengue fever in humans. Development of dengue vaccines began in the 1920s, but was hindered by the need to create immunity against all four dengue serotypes. [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengue_vaccine | 04:16 |
| nixonix | but i can still estimate if maturation continues with noavavax, when i find out a few things some day | 04:16 |
| nixonix | lots of news lately when somebody refusing was caught rona and died. should we haahaa reading them | 04:19 |
| nixonix | refusing vax | 04:19 |
| nixonix | first vaccines were voluntary when theres more demand than supply. then started the incentives in some countries. i guess soon there will be mandates (other than in hc and elderly care or what was it too tired | 04:21 |
| nixonix | bulgaria and romania vax curves, owid | 04:21 |
| nixonix | whats wrong with their heads, hard to understand | 04:22 |
| himesama | some who do not vaccinate have health reasons for not doing so. others cannot gain acess. others have had their minds poisoned by russia and maybe china. others have limited news sources. others have limited brains. | 04:33 |
| himesama | what i don't get is why we can spy on everybody but cannot trace disinformation. why we can sell the most trivial of personal care products and invent things like dandruff but cannot sell vaccines better. and more. | 04:38 |
| Raf[m] | people are scared of mRNA vaccines because they were never widely used before covid. i don't think moderna even ever had a product to market | 04:47 |
| himesama | is peg injected frequently? | 04:53 |
| LjL | invent things like dandruff? | 04:56 |
| himesama | um make a market for products for and grow that market and make it a relative big deal. actually i was thinking of pantylines, which were probably popularized around the same time in tv ads. | 04:57 |
| LjL | pretty sure dandruff is an actual phenomenon though | 04:58 |
| LjL | aka seborrhoeic dermatitis of the scalp | 04:59 |
| himesama | that's the severe form | 04:59 |
| himesama | i would not call that dandruff, as dandruff is generally thought of as a cosmetic type of problem | 05:07 |
| LjL | well it's the same thing just varying in severity so | 05:09 |
| himesama | bad example. tailfins on cars then. | 05:20 |
| himesama | whitewall tires. | 05:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Half of US population fully vaccinated against Covid-19: CDC → https://is.gd/BmWCnC | 05:24 |
| himesama | point being that marketing and propaganda are so unbelievably effective in so many areas, e.g. making people think pesticides are safe, or selling whitewall tires, or whatever, that why not vax | 05:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 790: COVID-19 clinical update #74 with Dr. Daniel Griffin: In COVID-19 clinical update #74, Daniel Griffin covers infections in vaccinated individuals, expansion of Regeneron monoclonal antibody cocktail for prophylaxis, neutralization of variants by antibodies produced by infection or vaccination, longer hospital [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/NHAp8O | 06:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Unvaccinated people twice as likely to be reinfected with Covid: US Study → https://is.gd/0IUHON | 06:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Eager to continue partnership with India in fight against Covid: US → https://is.gd/HPzb36 | 06:47 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Florida, United States: +134751 cases (now 2.8 million), +616 deaths (now 39695) since 7 days ago — Texas, United States: +23096 cases (now 3.2 million), +69 deaths (now 53607) since a day ago — Michigan, United States: +4514 cases (now 1.0 million), +5 deaths (now 21221) since 2 days ago — New York, United States: +3739 cases (now 2.2 million) since a day ago | 07:37 |
| AndrewYu | %cases Shanghai | 07:43 |
| Brainstorm | AndrewYu: Shanghai, China has had 2346 confirmed cases (0.0% of all people) and 7 deaths (0.3% of cases) as of 6 minutes ago. +9 cases since a day ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Shanghai | 07:43 |
| Brainstorm | AndrewYu: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Shanghai, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 07:43 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +38628 cases (now 31.9 million), +524 deaths (now 427175) since 15 hours ago | 08:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | August 07, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/O9yd8b | 09:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID strain with “35% Case Fatality Rate” could realistically emerge very soon if vaccinations stagnate, say UK scientific advisory group. → https://is.gd/QbwgK1 | 09:25 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Thailand: +21838 cases (now 736522), +212 deaths (now 6066) since a day ago | 09:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Seven residents of Belgian nursing home die after outbreak of B.1.621 lineage of COVID-19 → https://is.gd/NXS0id | 10:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: US now averaging 100,000 new COVID-19 infections a day → https://is.gd/ObbCIY | 10:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Philippines: +10996 cases (now 1.6 million), +162 deaths (now 28835) since 23 hours ago — Austria: +607 cases (now 662529), +2 deaths (now 10750) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +3243 cases (now 3.8 million) since 23 hours ago | 11:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Art and Culture: National Handloom Day 2021: Nurturing handlooms, crafts, and arts during COVID-19 → https://is.gd/XWKizS | 11:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canada to loosen more travel restrictions for fully vaccinated visitors on Monday → https://is.gd/dz0o9D | 11:19 |
| finely[m] | <himesama> "what i don't get is why we can..." <- Systems of propaganda focus on manipulating errors in cognition that are common in all of us - cognitive biases. Science tries to overcome these predictable errors, but it takes training and effort to see the world that way. Disinformation is so much easier to sell than than the messy, uncertain enterprise of finding truth. Surveillance capitalism is all about lying and manipulating people - | 11:56 |
| finely[m] | not public service education. | 11:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronavirusUK: JCVI ‘largely opposed’ to Covid vaccination for children under 16 → https://is.gd/pFqS4H | 12:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Thousands of French protesters will take to the streets on Saturday for a fourth consecutive weekend to demonstrate against the government-imposed Covid-19 health pass. The pass, which is an extended version of the EU’s Covid-19 travel pass, comes into force on Monday → https://is.gd/vNlHxo | 14:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +2231 cases (now 712740), +19 deaths (now 10038) since 23 hours ago | 14:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: The U.S. Is Now Averaging 100,000 New COVID-19 Infections A Day: The U.S. was averaging about 11,000 cases a day in late June. It's now averaging 100,000 new COVID-19 infections a day, returning to a milestone last seen during the winter surge. → https://is.gd/zzecoK | 15:19 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Azerbaijan: +1289 cases (now 350605), +5 deaths (now 5056) since a day ago | 16:00 |
| de-facto | .title https://archive.is/HSSz3 https://www.ft.com/content/d415a01e-d065-44a9-bad4-f9235aa04c1a | 16:08 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From archive.is: Pfizer and Moderna raise EU Covid vaccine prices | Financial Times | 16:08 |
| de-facto | "The new price for a Pfizer shot was €19.50 against €15.50 previously, according to portions of the contracts seen by the Financial Times." | 16:08 |
| de-facto | "The price of a Moderna jab was $25.50 a dose, the contracts show, up from what people familiar with the matter said was about €19 ($22.60) in the first procurement deal but lower than a previously agreed $28.50 because the order had grown, according to one official close to the negotiations." | 16:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Deadly Virus Discovered In Bolivia May Be Worse Than COVID-19; authorities warn the world → https://is.gd/RCI7Tl | 16:12 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kosovo: +352 cases (now 109662), +1 deaths (now 2271) since 23 hours ago | 16:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Saturday 07 August 2021 Update: submitted by /u/HippolasCage to r/CoronavirusUK → https://is.gd/NwCTlz | 17:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from Contagion Live: us: Those With Mild Disease Still Experience Long COVID-19 → https://is.gd/XxJJz6 | 17:25 |
| de-facto | .title https://imgur.com/a/jsnF4OP https://i.imgur.com/sOrxPeB.png data: https://impfdashboard.de/static/data/germany_vaccinations_timeseries_v2.tsv | 17:38 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From imgur.com: COVID Germany: First dose vaccination and rate in percent - Album on Imgur | 17:38 |
| de-facto | Fit with newest data, still same result, asymptotically saturates at 64.31% ± 0.21% | 17:39 |
| TurboTech | Morning afternoon good evening | 17:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for North Macedonia: +376 cases (now 157627), +1 deaths (now 5503) since 22 hours ago — Bangladesh: +8136 cases (now 1.3 million), +261 deaths (now 22411) since a day ago — Germany: +2805 cases (now 3.8 million) since 22 hours ago | 17:40 |
| LjL | look how this time, the *bottom* of the curve matches so well between the US and the EU, but then the EU "leaves" and stops growing while the US continues: offloop.net/covid19/?default=EU;US&byPopulation=yes&cumulative=no | 17:42 |
| LjL | i didn't even need to turn Smooth on because it shows fine | 17:42 |
| de-facto | hmm yeah delta import as roughly comparable time, hence delta taking over alpha at roughly same time? | 17:48 |
| LjL | i thought Europe had Delta sooner | 17:48 |
| LjL | but anyway why are we going down now and they aren't? i don't see very many restrictive measures in Europe | 17:49 |
| de-facto | hmm i am not so sure we are going down in EU, maybe its just a temporary plateau until it reached the next cohort to burn through? | 17:52 |
| de-facto | some countries had their peak in the young, others are still rising | 17:52 |
| de-facto | its inconsistent in EU right now, since its a wave both in space and time | 17:53 |
| de-facto | btw unfortunately fatalities in EU are also on the rise again | 17:59 |
| de-facto | e.g. in Spain, Portugal | 18:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +28229 cases (now 6.0 million) since 23 hours ago | 18:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canada now lists Bell's Palsy as possible, though very rare, side-effect of Pfizer vaccine → https://is.gd/IHjCOA | 18:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Putin’s vaccine PR backfires in Latin America | Nations are scrambling to administer shots to millions of people, after Russia fails to deliver on promises of Sputnik V → https://is.gd/efDLqD | 18:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +6897 cases (now 4.4 million), +22 deaths (now 128209) since a day ago — Canada: +7 deaths (now 26663) since 23 hours ago | 19:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID strain with “35% Case Fatality Rate” could realistically emerge very soon if vaccinations stagnate, say UK scientific advisory group. → https://is.gd/O1MG6O | 19:09 |
| LjL | ... | 19:09 |
| LjL | if that's from the same UK report as i think, that's a *slightly* exaggerated description | 19:10 |
| LjL | yep | 19:10 |
| LjL | "... and that the UK should consider culling animals — including minks and even cats, which can contract the virus" ← should a misrepresentation of what they said. they 1) said cats can get it 2) said vaccination or culling of animals can be considered. they never specifically said cats should be culled | 19:13 |
| finely[m] | <himesama> "what i don't get is why we can..." <- Here is Facebook actively interfering with efforts to monitor disinfo | 19:14 |
| finely[m] | https://pluralistic.net/2021/08/05/comprehensive-sex-ed/#quis-custodiet-ipsos-zuck | 19:14 |
| Arsanerit | why only slightly exaggerated? | 19:18 |
| Arsanerit | or was slightly an understatement? | 19:18 |
| dTal | ya know, humans can get get covid too, maybe we should cull them | 19:20 |
| Arsanerit | It would help to reduce the spread of the virus. | 19:21 |
| Arsanerit | It would also help reduce anthropogenic climate change. | 19:21 |
| Arsanerit | And have a whole host of other advantages. | 19:21 |
| Arsanerit | bbl | 19:21 |
| dTal | and crime, and annoying TikTok videos | 19:21 |
| LjL | it was an understatement, although that report is scary | 19:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Thousands Protest Against France's Coronavirus Health Pass As Stricter Rules Loom: Thousands of protesters took to the streets across France for the fourth consecutive weekend against a requirement for a new health pass that will be needed to enter businesses or use public transit. → https://is.gd/yQfmz4 | 19:40 |
| LjL | %title https://spectatorworld.com/topic/new-york-times-quashed-covid-origins-inquiry/ (not sure how trustable a source this is) | 20:02 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From spectatorworld.com: Exclusive: New York Times quashed COVID origins inquiry - The Spectator World | 20:02 |
| lunatunes | hello everyone | 20:55 |
| lunatunes | so whats the latest on covid? | 20:55 |
| rpifan | nothing | 20:57 |
| LjL | latest compared to when? | 21:00 |
| LjL | Delta making vaccines sort of meh is the most important "recent thing" to me | 21:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Thai protesters launch projectiles and homemade bombs at police as discontent over the pandemic boils over → https://is.gd/9rWwPk | 21:25 |
| dTal | LjL: the combination of Delta + vaccinated population is actually scarier to me than the first wave | 21:26 |
| dTal | now we have a disease that spreads silently, leaving some fraction of people it infects permanently disabled | 21:27 |
| LjL | i don't know if i find it scarier, hard to compare for various reasons, but it is not non-scary | 21:28 |
| dTal | that's the worst part for me - vaccines barely help against long covid | 21:28 |
| LjL | i don't know if they barely help. i know what you get that from, my i am somewhat skeptical on how those numbers are gathered, based on which symptoms, etc... | 21:33 |
| LjL | i'll call that a "maybe" for now | 21:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Tokyo Covered Up Arrival of Deadly New COVID Variant Just Before the Olympics → https://is.gd/9L8e1X | 22:07 |
| Arsanerit | Aren't all variants deadly? | 22:07 |
| LjL | crappy headline | 22:31 |
| LjL | it's about Lambda which has not been shown to be anything more deadly than other variants so far | 22:31 |
| Arsanerit | Is there any reason to believe lambda is more worrisome than delta? | 22:42 |
| lunatunes | Seems at this point the only thing that will fix things for sure is better masks | 22:44 |
| lunatunes | if you can get people to wear them | 22:45 |
| Arsanerit | Better than FFP2? | 22:45 |
| de-facto | lambda may be potentially more immune evasive but not as fit in terms of replication as delta, so it pretty much depends on current level of immunity (against delta) | 22:45 |
| Arsanerit | I use 3M Aura 9320+ FFP2 masks. Do I need better masks? | 22:46 |
| de-facto | 3M Aura 9330+ FFP3 :) | 22:46 |
| lunatunes | Arsanerit: if possible yes. But I don't think there will be anyone who will try right now. So KF94 it is for me and the family. | 22:46 |
| de-facto | no those FFP2 are fine for now i guess, more important is airtight fit | 22:47 |
| Arsanerit | I thought FFP3 had valves and were therefore not allowed? | 22:47 |
| de-facto | it depends on the level of contamination in your environment there though | 22:47 |
| de-facto | and duration of potential exposure | 22:47 |
| de-facto | not the one i mentioned there | 22:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China pledges 2 billion vaccines globally through year's end → https://is.gd/gIkHwG | 22:48 |
| de-facto | i dont have any experience with it though, my FFP3 got valves | 22:49 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, both FFP2 and FFP3 can have valves (or may not). it's unrelated. | 22:51 |
| LjL | you can buy FFP2 with valves and FFP3 without valves | 22:52 |
| LjL | whether or not the ones with valves are allowed depends on the location | 22:52 |
| de-facto | though in general FFP3 may employ more dense filters hence more air resistance, so potentially carriers profit more from valved ones | 22:53 |
| Arsanerit | LjL: oh, ok | 22:55 |
| Arsanerit | the FFP3 ones I saw for sale had valves and the FFP2 ones did not, but I did not search very thoroughly | 22:55 |
| de-facto | afaik the south american variants got almost double the amount of mutations on their s-protein the last time i looked, so they may cause us problems with the current gen vaccines, because they are the most "distant" in terms of differences in the s-protein compared to the Wuhan-Hu-1 s-protein our current vaccines are employing | 23:02 |
| de-facto | *almost double the amount of mutation in s-protein compared to the European variants | 23:03 |
| de-facto | https://nextstrain.org/ncov/gisaid/global?c=S1_mutations | 23:06 |
| de-facto | do we have data on vaccine efficacy in south america compared to europe for most recent times? | 23:08 |
| de-facto | Number of S1 mutations roughly look like: Alpha ~ 6-7, Delta ~ 8-9, Gamma 10-11, though of course not all of them are equally immuno evasive, they can have all kinds of effects | 23:14 |
| LjL | aradesh, but i agree with de-facto that proper fit is more important than whether it's P2 or P3 anyway | 23:23 |
| LjL | not aradesh, sorry, Arsanerit except they've left | 23:23 |
| himesama | iiuc you are saying it's disinfo vs. science. i agree science can lose in that war, for the reasons you give here and others. my point is different. in short, those systems of propaganda are civiliazation-destroyingly powerful. they have been honed down ever since early 1900s (bernays, with earlier precedents) to a praxis that is capable of making majorities effectively believe obvious falsehoods. but the war y | 23:32 |
| himesama | ou describe is not our war at present, or if it is, it is only by abandonment or something. governments and certain industries possibly have an interest in promoting npi and vax. yet the civilization-destroyingly powerful tools of propaganda and marketing are not working. tldr: it isn't disinfo vs. science; it's disinfo of some type (perhaps some govs and corps included in the origins) vs. (some) govs and corps. | 23:32 |
| himesama | why are the latter not winning? i thik this is not elucidated (by anybody) in enough detail. --- 02:56 <finely[m]> <himesama> "what i don't get is why we can..." <- Systems of propaganda focus on manipulating errors in cognition that are common in all of us - cognitive biases. Science tries to overcome these predictable errors, but it takes training and effort to see the world that way. Disinformation is so much | 23:32 |
| himesama | easier to sell than than the messy, uncertain enterprise of finding truth. Surveillance capitalism is all about lying and manipulating people - | 23:32 |
| himesama | i don | 23:33 |
| himesama | the fact that one side is promoting science is irrelevant; it is a coincidence. i don't thik that an be the reason that side is not winning more. | 23:37 |
| himesama | systems of propaganda and marketing don't care whether what they say is true, attempting to be true, etc. | 23:37 |
| himesama | thus to me the messiness of science (and its inaccessibility to those not trained in critial thinking) is not likely doing a whole lot to obstruct the message. | 23:38 |
| himesama | i do agree normally that is a problem, but that is only because the systems of propaganda and marketing are normally not available to those trying to sell science. it is available now. | 23:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canada to welcome fully vaccinated Americans after deal to stop strike → https://is.gd/7mydii | 23:52 |
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