| nixonix | yeah, jnj's titere seem to wane slower, but are low from the get-go. after 2nd jab (at least if 6 month interval is used), they look decent. real world protection vs delta, who knows | 00:10 |
|---|---|---|
| nixonix | (titer values from different studies and vaccines arent necessarily very comparable for several reasons) | 00:11 |
| nixonix | brian hjelle doesnt seem to appreciate jnj, although i think he probably took it originally because he thought jnj + mrna would be strong combo | 00:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from New Scientist: Opioid levels in US wastewater spiked during the early pandemic months: In the early months of the covid-19 pandemic, wastewater samples from Kentucky and Tennessee had a 72 per cent increase in hydrocodone, plus spikes in antidepressants and anti-anxiety drugs → https://is.gd/CFqbYF | 00:17 |
| LjL | nixonix, Topol and some other people tweeted some slightly bitter things abotu J&J in the past few days | 00:23 |
| nixonix | paste links? i was just checking topols tweets, but i have look at other ppls tweets lately. tweets galore | 00:25 |
| nixonix | looked | 00:25 |
| nixonix | oh yeah, they released some press stuff before that study | 00:27 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.statnews.com/2021/08/25/covid-19-vaccines-flirted-with-perfection-reality-more-complicated/ | 00:29 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.statnews.com: Covid-19 vaccines flirted with perfection. Reality is more complicated | 00:29 |
| de-facto | .titel https://wordpress.cels.anl.gov/covid-vaccine-efficacy/ | 00:29 |
| de-facto | .title https://wordpress.cels.anl.gov/covid-vaccine-efficacy/ | 00:29 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From wordpress.cels.anl.gov: COVID-19 Vaccine Efficacy Page – Vaccine Efficacy Comparisons Made Easy | 00:30 |
| nixonix | its not even crucial question, we will soon see it in action and can hole up again if needed. the biggest problem is we dont know the extent of permanent damage to organs, does it apply to mild cases, kids, vaccinated, asymptomatic etc | 00:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kuwait: +212 cases (now 409009), +2 deaths (now 2414), +13264 tests (now 3.7 million) since 23 hours ago | 00:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Lancet (Online): [Series] Cardiopulmonary resuscitation in special circumstances: Cardiopulmonary resuscitation prioritises treatment for cardiac arrests from a primary cardiac cause, which make up the majority of treated cardiac arrests. Early chest compressions and, when indicated, a defibrillation shock from a bystander give the best [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Rha7am | 00:40 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1430532842212053001 | 00:43 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): "Breakthrough infections in Bahrain among over 1 million vaccinees, including Delta wave, comparison of 4 different vaccines and outcomes among unvaccinated [...] | 00:43 |
| nixonix | so az is better? | 00:44 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/BobLu6/status/1430538446750294020 | 00:44 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: BobL (@BobLu6): "Dr. Topol, this is from a new report from New York City Health Dept. Just released this morning." | nitter | 00:44 |
| pwr22 | nixonix: that's how it looks there | 00:49 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/DrRobertOConnor/status/1430539091771277312 bahrain graphs from that paper. chinese whole virus vaccine doesnt look very strong | 00:49 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Dr Robert O'Connor (@DrRobertOConnor): "Great to see real world paper highlighted, especially with the potential of recent #CovidVaccine findings to be misinterpreted. These graphs were most telling [...] | 00:49 |
| nixonix | do we have uk data vs delta showing difference between pfizer and az? | 00:50 |
| nixonix | pfizer was stronger vs kent variant, but how about delta? | 00:51 |
| dTal | "kent variant" wow nostalgia trip man | 00:51 |
| dTal | real 2020 vibes dude | 00:51 |
| nixonix | yeah, i guess i call it just uk variant... | 00:52 |
| nixonix | british media used to call it kent. nobody else | 00:52 |
| * pwr22 uploaded an image: (678KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/shortestpath.dev/YvqBXqcJgBwHgWMdDLgMkzCc/image.png > | 00:56 | |
| pwr22 | Dammit UK | 00:56 |
| pwr22 | Gotta catch 'em all | 00:57 |
| pwr22 | Covidmon! | 00:57 |
| nixonix | it looks like they didnt do much adjusting for confounders in bahrain | 00:58 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/m81yura/status/1430581468514983945 | 01:00 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Юрий Топфейс (@m81yura): "those who are vaccinated with "Epivaccorona" get sick more often than those who are not vaccinated." | nitter | 01:00 |
| * pwr22 uploaded an image: (436KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/shortestpath.dev/FAOTkThbOwDhmALqqEnXHjvF/image.png > | 01:00 | |
| pwr22 | Ash Catchup is Boris 😛 | 01:00 |
| pwr22 | *Catchem | 01:00 |
| nixonix | .title http://science.sciencemag.org/content/373/6558/eabd9149.full | 01:06 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From science.sciencemag.org: Airborne transmission of respiratory viruses | Science | 01:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: R to @EricTopol: Today, on CoronaVac," and variants of concern, @TheLancetInfDishttps://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00568-5/fulltext"Delta most refractory to neutralization""Low degree of neutralization-afforded protection mounted by CoronaVac when compared with natural infection" → https://is.gd/RjpYkn | 01:13 |
| nixonix | translated from hebrew, "recovered" means probably reinfections: | 01:16 |
| nixonix | Data from the Ministry of Health- Total recovered patients (a total of about 900,000 recovering) - 4811 0.47% All 2020 - 0.08 2021 so far - 0.71%. (Delta's strong erosion of recovering immunity!) Please note - only since the beginning of August 2702 recoveries have occurred again, constituting 1.8% of the verified. This is a very young | 01:16 |
| nixonix | group, recovering. Later I will comment a bit. | 01:16 |
| LjL | nixonix, he and others were a bit pissed that J&J did a study on 17 people iirc, maybe Dered Lowe also | 01:19 |
| LjL | %title https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/07/19/too-many-papers | 01:23 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From blogs.sciencemag.org: Too Many Papers | In the Pipeline | 01:23 |
| LjL | how /me feels | 01:23 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/andrew_croxford/status/1430799815693250562 messy data, always | 01:24 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix, the URL could not be loaded | 01:24 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/andrew_croxford/status/1430799815693250562 | 01:24 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Andrew L. Croxford (@andrew_croxford): "Interesting and a lot of threads already but I wanna throw a spanner in the works with an annoying question that I hope someone will be able to answer so I can [...] | 01:24 |
| LjL | i also wonder about things that were seemingly successful, i can think of carrageenan but also of those italian doctors saying to use aspirin, or i think many other things i've heard during the pandemic and that now don't come to mind... where are they? if they worked, why aren't they being used, talked about, investigated more, visible? | 01:26 |
| nixonix | remember on july 2020, when that italian md came to the other channel, and i asked him about things they were using for covid patients, mentioning at least TEG, aspirin and statins | 01:27 |
| LjL | hmm, i think i heard some complaints on the basis of "unvaccinated people behave different on average" just recently | 01:28 |
| nixonix | he didnt work with covid patients, but said they didnt have thromboelastography, and didnt use aspirin or statins. now i just read a finnish article where they said they were starting to look for antiplatelets like aspirin and statin use... | 01:28 |
| LjL | nixonix, right okay, but i wonder, they use them in hospital... does my GP know about them? if i get COVID, and hopefully i don't need to go to hospital right away, is my GP aware of these studies (considering there are thousands of papers every week), does she know she should give me aspirin or whatever? or is it only in hospital, when i'm already severe? | 01:29 |
| nixonix | btw after that italian doc left, i said it looks like no bleeding heart stuff there. defacto said something like its better they dont | 01:29 |
| LjL | ah so he didn't even use those things | 01:29 |
| LjL | maybe it's not surprising then we have such a high percentage of deaths | 01:29 |
| nixonix | but things like using those will take time, years. esp when they dont have large quality RCTs on them still, apparently (not claiming they should use them, but that they still dont know if they should or not) | 01:30 |
| LjL | why does it need to take years? maybe the effort done in publishing MILLIONS of paper should be narrowed down to fewer things that are more promising | 01:31 |
| LjL | instead, a lot of promising stuff is never heard of again | 01:31 |
| nixonix | everybody wants to do small pilot studies, and confirm them etc, on stuff like ivermectin | 01:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for St. Martin: +179 cases (now 3273), +1 deaths (now 42), +1444 tests (now 54303) since 6 days ago — Lesotho: +7 cases (now 14395), +139 tests (now 146630) since a day ago | 01:33 |
| nixonix | translator: According to Lassila, who also works as a consultant at HUS, the clinic will in the future start screening patients for clotting problems | 01:33 |
| LjL | %seen archpc | 01:33 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: I last saw archpc at 2021-08-26 21:26:25 (2:07:28 ago). | 01:33 |
| nixonix | - We have drugs that affect platelets, such as aspirin. Such medications may be appropriate for some of these patients based on a physician’s assessment. | 01:34 |
| nixonix | Randomized studies published in the summer have shown the effectiveness of heparin treatment in hospital patients | 01:34 |
| nixonix | In Lassila's view, the combined effect of heparin and acholesterol-lowering drug statin could also be beneficial in the treatment of long corona | 01:35 |
| nixonix | https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&u=https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/usealta-pitkaa-koronaa-sairastaneelta-loytynyt-yhteinen-tekija-joka-saattaa-selittaa-pysyvia-oireita-potilaita-aletaan-seuloa-hyytymishairion-varalta/8219028 | 01:35 |
| nixonix | so only this summer they got rct's for heparin even? | 01:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Coronavirus: Blood clot risk from coronavirus infection outweighs risk from vaccine: study → https://is.gd/zPteQr | 01:36 |
| nixonix | they have used it at least for over year, but still | 01:36 |
| nixonix | bleeding *edge (not heart ) | 01:37 |
| nixonix | yeah, injecting lmwh twice a day, iv i think but not sure | 01:39 |
| nixonix | for long covid | 01:39 |
| nixonix | gl with that no-vaxers | 01:40 |
| nixonix | in that nature article they estimated by the end of 2020 31% of americans had had rona. imo not that large share, more like 25% or so (and now 50% max), remembering both IHME's and CDC's estimates from april/may they had 35% around that time | 01:47 |
| nixonix | while those refusing the jab prob have had it more often, theres still plenty room even without reinfections | 01:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid: Vaccine complications dwarfed by virus risks: Researchers says despite stroke and clotting risks, Covid vaccines have substantial benefits. → https://is.gd/kvmdI6 | 01:59 |
| archpc | LjL, I’m here | 02:01 |
| LjL | archpc, situation update | 02:01 |
| archpc | Still feel the same, blood oxygen isn’t going any lower, I quit coughing | 02:02 |
| LjL | quit coughing... sounds probably good? | 02:02 |
| archpc | I don’t even know | 02:02 |
| LjL | me neither tbh | 02:02 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1430581936246775809 | 02:07 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): "With the @Pfizer/@BioNTech_Group vaccine, significantly higher levels of receptor binding domain antibodies induced with the 8-12 week dose spacing compared with 3-6 weeks [...] | 02:07 |
| nixonix | so they had mixed together 3-6 weeks. too bad, since 6 weeks might be closer to 8-12 weeks. the difference would prob be bigger if 3-4 weeks was used | 02:08 |
| nixonix | (ab wise longer is better, but shorter for killer t-cells - which wane rapidly according to that one study, but might help against immune evasion variants, if you still have any, that its...) | 02:10 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mozambique: +436 cases (now 144468), +3 deaths (now 1825), +2782 tests (now 838704) since a day ago | 02:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Japan's health ministry says some vials of the Moderna vaccine are believed to be contaminated with metallic particles → https://is.gd/RaQ5KA | 02:10 |
| LjL | SO THEY DO MAKE YOU MAGNETIC | 02:13 |
| archpc | HAH | 02:14 |
| LjL | and they don't even stop you from getting covid, as you've seen ;( | 02:14 |
| nixonix | Officials say the foreign substances are in the form of particles and believed to be metal as they are attracted to a magnet. | 02:15 |
| nixonix | i knew it! and ljl's router probs. you got moderna, was it? | 02:15 |
| LjL | no Pfui-zer | 02:15 |
| archpc | I got mine from Verizon | 02:17 |
| nixonix | thats bad for vaccinations, now some people are made to believe that they got all kinds of contaminations from them | 02:17 |
| LjL | well, yeah, it's bad to have contaminants in vaccines :P | 02:20 |
| archpc | Isn’t that how the 5G gets amplified | 02:20 |
| LjL | i'd say the fact people will be more wary is an unwanted side effect, but it shouldn't happen in the first place | 02:20 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/RyanEGraney/status/1430856835997868032 | 02:20 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Ryan Graney👩🏻🦰 (@RyanEGraney): "Friends. I have joined ivermectin groups on Facebook. They are literally shitting their pants in grocery stores." | nitter | 02:20 |
| LjL | classy | 02:21 |
| nixonix | just wait, anti-vaxers or actually those manouvering their narrative, will use that contamination soon | 02:22 |
| archpc | Of course they are | 02:23 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/hjelle_brian/status/1431017933463965697 | 02:26 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Brian Hjelle, virologist (@hjelle_brian): "To my knowledge, no coronavirus is demonstrated to lose pathogenicity. The whole concept of viruses watering down disease potential is close to vapor. When [...] | 02:26 |
| archpc | LjL, spO2 is slowly going up, it’s 86 on both hands | 02:27 |
| nixonix | over year ago some virologists discussed, and they couldnt think a single example where virus would have gained more lethality (meaning when not a spillover from another animal host). and saying they tend to change to milder | 02:30 |
| nixonix | but the common assumption is, spanish flu did just that between the first two waves | 02:30 |
| nixonix | and kent... i mean uk variant was apparently around 50% more lethal than previous wild types, and now this one probably even more | 02:31 |
| archpc | Can we just get the “I Am Legend” plot line started | 02:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: COVID-19: Risk of thrombocytopenia and thromboembolism after covid-19 vaccination and SARS-CoV-2 positive testing: self-controlled case series study → https://is.gd/saXkaq | 02:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Norway: +820 cases (now 153534) since 8 hours ago — France: +10847 cases (now 6.7 million), +62 deaths (now 113985) since 21 hours ago — Canada: +2916 cases (now 1.5 million), +13 deaths (now 26888) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +2064 cases (now 1.9 million), +9 deaths (now 18147) since 21 hours ago | 02:35 |
| gry | https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1931.short - is this reviewed or a preprint? | 02:35 |
| LjL | nixonix, well, but this *is* (presumably) a spillover from another animal host? | 02:39 |
| LjL | archpc, 86 is still awfully low but if it keeps increasing, good | 02:40 |
| archpc | man, i wouldn't have eaten that bat soup if i knew it was gonna be this bad.. | 02:40 |
| archpc | (jk, don't kill me) | 02:40 |
| nixonix | strange that only brits have found pfizer having almost similar risk of CVST than az... | 02:41 |
| LjL | gry, i'm not sure if that "Fast track" on the right actually means it's a fast tracked paper | 02:42 |
| LjL | if it is, it should be peer reviewed but might still be in the process of it | 02:42 |
| LjL | it doesn't seem to be classified as a preprint anyway | 02:43 |
| LjL | it seems linked to an editorial so they probably consider it an important paper | 02:46 |
| LjL | err i got disconnected in the middle of typing i think | 02:46 |
| LjL | ah no everything got across | 02:46 |
| nixonix | no, i meant after the spillover, changing from that point. trying to exclude times when other spillovers of the same virus happen (like with H1N1 it has happened several times, so when humans had immunity for old variants, it wasnt that effective when it jumped again from pigs 2009) | 02:47 |
| gry | LjL: what units is that? I would say "one of 500 people who get vaccine X develop blood clots and die" is adequate units, but ``increased risk of arterial thromboembolism after BNT162b2 mRNA vaccination (1.06, 1.01 to 1.10 at 15-21 days)`` is a bla-bla-confusing-thing | 02:48 |
| nixonix | if it jumped from pigs 2009. not sure if its confirmed. or was it mexican or chinese pigs (which is thought as another possibility) | 02:49 |
| LjL | gry, it's the odd ratio, might need reading the details to be extra sure, but roughly speaking, it means that after BNT you have 6% more chances (1.06) of getting thromboembolism compared to the average person who didn't get BNT in a timespan of 15-21 days | 02:50 |
| LjL | with a confidence interval of between 1.01 and 1.10 | 02:50 |
| nixonix | theres a graph helping in the pdf | 02:51 |
| LjL | nixonix, well i don't know why they couldn't think of other viruses that did this, i certainly can't because i don't know many, but i don't understand the rationale why a virus *can't* get more severe and *must* become milder. i understand the evolutionary trend long-term, sure. | 02:51 |
| LjL | gry, in fact saying "one out of 500 people who got the vaccine developed blood clots" alone would be meaningless because... how many people who did NOT get the vaccine just go ahead to develop blood clots? if you don't know that, it's meaningless. hence the odds ratio | 02:52 |
| nixonix | it was told on these virus chans, possibly it was said in this week in virology but i cant remember for sure. 2nd hand anyway, told by somebody, so i cant confirm | 02:53 |
| gry | LjL: so with ChAdOx1 the first number is 1.33 and with BNT162b2 it is 1.06, meaning the BNT162b2 vaccine is probably safer in this regard | 02:53 |
| gry | LjL: interesting that these numbers are ridiculously high for the covid19 virus itself | 02:53 |
| gry | LjL: did they even consider asymptomatic cases etc? | 02:54 |
| gry | I'm looking at 13.86 and 2.02 numbers for SARS-CoV-2 infection followed by a vaccination | 02:54 |
| gry | does it mean "if you had covid19 infection, don't vaccinate" or I am ignoring something there? | 02:55 |
| nixonix | you are now looking at milder types too, i think. the bad one is that CVST | 02:58 |
| gry | > Secondary analyses found increased risk of CVST after ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccination (4.01, 2.08 to 7.71 at 8-14 days), after BNT162b2 mRNA vaccination (3.58, 1.39 to 9.27 at 15-21 days), and after a positive SARS-CoV-2 test | 03:00 |
| LjL | gry, i don't think it's saying after COVID+vaccination | 03:00 |
| gry | the number 4.01 and 3.58 is pretty big number | 03:00 |
| LjL | it's just distinguishing between venous and arterial thromboembolism | 03:00 |
| LjL | gry, yeah, we definitely know that CVST is a risk with AZ. but CVST risk is extremely low in the general population (because it's a very rare condition), so while 4.01 does mean that the vaccine makes it 4 times more likely, it's still very unlikely | 03:01 |
| LjL | but that said... most of Europe did phase it out for that reason | 03:01 |
| nixonix | check the pdf, page 2, visual abstract. while im not believing only british results (that pfizer would have almost as high incidences as az), for sars2 infection is 4x as high | 03:02 |
| LjL | about counting asymptomatic, they probably just counted "whoever got a PCR test". it's hard to control for who gets a PCR test, it's mostly going to be symptomatics, but probably also some asymptomatics caught by luck in routine tests | 03:02 |
| nixonix | and its still rare for it, the lots of more serious stuff are more common, for sars2 infection | 03:02 |
| gry | LjL: everyone says AZ is worse than Pfizer. But if it's only 4.01/3.58 = 12% worse, than it's not good for the Pfizer. | 03:03 |
| gry | Not a very good comparison to make. | 03:03 |
| nixonix | other countries havent reported CVST above background noise from mrna vaccines | 03:03 |
| LjL | gry, look at the number of days though | 03:05 |
| LjL | also the CIs completely overlap, so 4.01/3.58 isn't a meaningful calculation to make | 03:05 |
| LjL | (just saying, it still means "similar", but it's useless to draw specifically a 12%-worse from it) | 03:06 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Risk of thrombocytopenia and thromboembolism after covid-19 vaccination and SARS-CoV-2 positive testing: self-controlled case series study ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/ABTVNVAS ) | 03:06 | |
| nixonix | so maybe the truth is somewhere in between, there is some, but maybe less than brits results. only a few cases for both vaccines | 03:06 |
| nixonix | so they could both be just variance. but other countries have found it more common from az, something like 1/50k or 1/100k. not from mrna vaccines | 03:07 |
| nixonix | "Risk of thrombocytopenia and thromboembolism after covid-19 vaccination and SARS-CoV-2 positive testing: self-controlled case series study ... this included 119 people with CVST related hospital admissions (no deaths) | 03:09 |
| nixonix | sorry, wrong part before "..." | 03:09 |
| nixonix | "19 608 008 people who had the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine, 9 513 625 who had the BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine, and 1 758 095 with a SARS-CoV-2 positive test ... this included 119 people with CVST related hospital admissions (no deaths) | 03:10 |
| gry | LjL: if I'm at risk of developing blood clots, it doesn't matter to me whether they come 7 or 30 days after. | 03:11 |
| nixonix | yet in other countries they found CVST 1/50k - 1/200k - and fatal something like a bit over 20% of them i think | 03:11 |
| gry | LjL: it does make the comparison meaningless, indeed- why didn't they analyze the data for a longer time frame? | 03:11 |
| LjL | gry, because it's harder, and because the reports we had were around that timeframe | 03:12 |
| nixonix | TTS, might include other than cerebral venous sinous th. too, not sure: | 03:12 |
| nixonix | .title https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/eleven-blood-clot-cases-linked-to-astrazeneca-in-p | 03:12 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www1.racgp.org.au: RACGP - Eleven blood clot cases linked to AstraZeneca in past week | 03:12 |
| LjL | gry, but also there is a paragraph that shows the "difference" with AZ: | 03:13 |
| LjL | An increased risk of CVST was observed in those who had the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine who were younger than 50 (8-14 days: 6.36, 2.61 to 15.46), and no significant increased risk was found in those older than 50 years. An increased risk of other rare arterial thrombosis was observed in those who had the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine who were younger than 50 (8-14 days: 1.20, 1.01 to 1.44). | 03:13 |
| LjL | there may be an elevated risk for everyone, and with any vaccine, and we can just be "oh well, COVID has a much higher risk of that, anyway!", but if the risk is all offset towards a specific age group, that might be concerning | 03:13 |
| LjL | so Europe ended up banning it for younger people | 03:14 |
| LjL | certainly some geopolitics and public pressure were involved, but there are some data too | 03:14 |
| nixonix | Nearly one quarter (23%) of the cases contained in the UK study died ... However, Australia’s current TTS case fatality rate of 5.75% (six deaths from 104 probable or confirmed cases) appears to be much lower than that recorded in the UK study | 03:14 |
| gry | LjL: so if you're over 50, it doesn't matter which of these two vaccines to take, as far as CVST is concerned. | 03:15 |
| nixonix | that bmj doesnt mention "TTS". so theres probably also classification problem | 03:16 |
| LjL | gry, about the number of days, i don't know if they considered this (maybe they mentioned it, but i just skimmed), but say that overall, in the month after the first dose, there was no increased risk of CVST with Pfizer; but say that if you *divide* that interval into four parts, you find an elevated risk (with a confidence interval starting from 1.3, so potentially not very elevated) only during one of the sub-periods... probability tells you that it becomes more | 03:16 |
| LjL | likely that finding is just a fluke | 03:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: More people are poisoning themselves with horse-deworming drug to thwart COVID → https://is.gd/6LLro1 | 03:17 |
| LjL | gry, it doesn't matter, or maybe AZ is even better, since the overall incidence is similar but most of it is in younger people, so presumably it's lower in older people! (and indeed, older people had fewer side effects in general with AZ than younger people) | 03:17 |
| LjL | but i would look at other factors, really, like efficacy | 03:17 |
| LjL | although it's good we have this study with a large dataset on these side effects that were concerning people | 03:17 |
| gry | Sounds complicated. | 03:18 |
| nixonix | it looks like VIPIT/TTS means there is also thrombocytopenia | 03:18 |
| LjL | i just don't find it the most important thing in practice though, since as you see, the incidence of ALL these blood clotting complications is MUCH higher with COVID | 03:18 |
| gry | Is it safe to say that if I was sick with COVID19 once and fought it off successfully, then vaccine is not needed, as my immune system is capable of sorting it out by itself, if a future infection arises? | 03:18 |
| nixonix | better wait for some expert analysis, and comparison to other countries data | 03:18 |
| gry | Or it is a bad thought process. | 03:18 |
| LjL | no, it's not safe at all | 03:18 |
| LjL | what we know so far is that natural immunity, while it might last longer (at least some parts of it) than vaccine immunity, is weaker | 03:19 |
| LjL | we also know that natural immunity PLUS a vaccine is stronger than either natural immunity alone, or a vaccine alone | 03:19 |
| gry | Okay. And where is data on the correlation of these blood clots with other existing health conditions? | 03:19 |
| LjL | so if you've already had COVID, getting a vaccine is ideal | 03:19 |
| LjL | i don't know | 03:19 |
| gry | I've been wondering about that for a while. | 03:19 |
| LjL | there was a suspicion it might be associated with birth control pills in women | 03:20 |
| LjL | not sure if it has been substantiated in any way | 03:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: On yesterday's controversial preprint regarding potential advantage of natural covid infection vs vaccine-induced immunity https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-no-infection-parties by @meredithwadman @ScienceMagazine w/ @PepperMarion @nataliexdean [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/cIcqef | 03:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Cameroon: +971 cases (now 83425), +12 deaths (now 1350) since 13 days ago — Ivory Coast: +447 cases (now 54299), +11 deaths (now 415) since 23 hours ago — Egypt: +221 cases (now 287159), +10 deaths (now 16701) since 23 hours ago — Curacao: +48 cases (now 15134), +2027 tests (now 229930) since 23 hours ago | 03:37 |
| archpc | offtopic, but i visited curacao, lovely place | 03:40 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine—but no infection parties, please ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/9949NUNP ) | 03:41 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: COVID-19 Vaccine Efficacy Page – Vaccine Efficacy Comparisons Made Easy ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/URU5RTPI ) | 04:11 | |
| surazal | If you have natural immunity, there is no clear data showing a booster will be beneficial. It is theorised to be helpful, and perhaps worth the risk of increased adverse affects for higher risk individuals. | 04:24 |
| surazal | https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2021/08/23/lets_stop_pretending_about_the_covid-19_vaccines_791050.html | 04:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virology.ws: More coronaviruses in rodents: This week President Biden received the report he commissioned on the origin of SARS-CoV-2. As I predicted three months ago, nothing was learned, because to find the origin of the virus it is necessary to conduct extensive wildlife surveys. Consequently this week I would rather write about a new study [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Hkzba1 | 04:44 |
| archpc | surazal, good read, thanks | 04:45 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Suriname: +230 cases (now 28228), +2 deaths (now 707) since a day ago — United Kingdom: +28487 cases (now 6.6 million), +105 deaths (now 132268) since 21 hours ago — France: +9841 cases (now 6.7 million), +61 deaths (now 114013) since 21 hours ago — South Korea: +1841 cases (now 245158), +8 deaths (now 2265), +60993 tests (now 12.9 million) since 22 hours ago | 05:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Aboriginal woman ‘turned away’ from hospital as data reveals Wilcannia worst hit by Covid → https://is.gd/eu2iDg | 05:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: It took over 3 decades for mRNA vaccines to be developed. Now their potential against Covid variants and other pathogens is limitless. An outstanding new review @NatRevDrugDisc https://www.nature.com/articles/s41573-021-00283-5 @WeissmanLab @KWhiteheadLab → https://is.gd/OHvyN2 | 05:27 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Pakistan: +3930 cases (now 1.1 million), +95 deaths (now 25415), +61036 tests (now 17.5 million) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +11717 cases (now 3.9 million) since 18 hours ago — Belgium: +2467 cases (now 1.2 million), +6 deaths (now 25354), +41599 tests (now 18.5 million) since 23 hours ago — Grenada: +29 cases (now 295) since a day ago | 06:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Reddit CEO rejects call for a crackdown on coronavirus misinformation → https://is.gd/Y6aOrA | 06:32 |
| Jbwncster | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/27/us/eviction-moratorium-ends.html | 06:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid: Arkansas jail dosing inmates with ivermectin in spite of FDA warnings → https://is.gd/pMRNFi | 06:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: A prospective assessment of the post-vaccination immune response to Delta in elderly and health care workers (HCW): The elderly have significant decline in anti-spike IgG, neutralizing activity and T cell reactivity at 6 months compared with HCWhttps://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.26.21262468v1 → https://is.gd/w3CLvj | 06:54 |
| p0indexter | good morning | 06:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: U.S. coronavirus hospitalizations hit eight-month high over 100,000 → https://is.gd/NpDYXH | 07:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Mexican researchers say they created facemask that neutralizes COVID-19 → https://is.gd/qviVN3 | 07:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Contaminant in Moderna vaccines suspected to be metallic particles: Report → https://is.gd/SLxy6k | 07:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Malaria trial shows ‘striking’ 70% reduction in severe illness in children - A study in Burkina Faso and Mali suggests combining anti-malarial drugs and vaccination could reduce deaths and hospitalisations → https://is.gd/ez4PFx | 07:50 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Alabama, United States: +11142 cases (now 676795), +103 deaths (now 12103) since 3 days ago — Arizona, United States: +6855 cases (now 998164), +23 deaths (now 18661) since 2 days ago — Ohio, United States: +5395 cases (now 1.2 million) since a day ago — Osaka, Japan: +2830 cases (now 156940), +6 deaths (now 2778) since a day ago | 08:11 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +44658 cases (now 32.6 million), +290 deaths (now 436503) since 15 hours ago | 08:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Why it will soon be too late to find out where the COVID-19 virus originated → https://is.gd/ChbgCf | 08:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | August 27, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/6Af6KC | 09:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: On the hunt for COVID variants in Minnesota → https://is.gd/LFrkeY | 09:16 |
| p0indexter | its a hydra | 09:25 |
| p0indexter | exhibits gain of function | 09:28 |
| p0indexter | occam's razor | 09:29 |
| p0indexter | the narative of "we will never no" is premature and an argument can be made certain parties would like us to believe "we will never know". | 09:34 |
| p0indexter | we know some things. the intel report was "inconclusive" | 09:36 |
| p0indexter | if the intel suggested conclusivly it didnt originate from a lab that would have been published. | 09:37 |
| p0indexter | the subtext is that there is merit to the theory it came from a lab and could not be ruled out | 09:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from Science-Based Medicine: Reader Beware: Certain doctors may not be anti-vaccine, but they need to be fact-checked as if they are. The post first appeared on Science-Based Medicine . → https://is.gd/0SnZkj | 09:39 |
| pwr22 | You can't really litigate against "acts of god" | 09:39 |
| Krey[m] | Whatever i do is an act of god, try to litigate that | 09:39 |
| pwr22 | If the EU would kindly share their timemachine though I'm sure that the companies will be happy to oblige 😀 | 09:39 |
| p0indexter | i think we will know or already do | 09:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for N. Mariana Is.: +8 cases (now 232) since 3 days ago | 10:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Mexico grants emergency use approval to China’s Sinopharm COVID-19 vaccine → https://is.gd/ZhZ3x1 | 10:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Global COVID Cases For 27AUG21 → https://is.gd/QsP2ac | 10:24 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mizoram, India: +905 cases (now 55756), +4 deaths (now 206) since a day ago — Dadra and Nagar Haveli and Daman and Diu, India: +3 cases (now 10663) since a day ago | 10:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Opinion: It’s easy to judge the unvaccinated. As a doctor, I see a better alternative: In the emergency room, questioning Covid-19 patients' motives isn't needed. When they have oxygen masks strapped to their faces, previously passionate arguments about individual liberty and the like deflate like… → https://is.gd/Qx6eSB | 10:47 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Russia: +19509 cases (now 6.8 million), +798 deaths (now 180041), +400000 tests (now 177.1 million) since 23 hours ago | 11:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Japan: +26050 cases (now 1.4 million), +60 deaths (now 15797), +147884 tests (now 21.3 million) since 23 hours ago — Poland: +254 cases (now 2.9 million), +3 deaths (now 75335), +37849 tests (now 19.6 million) since 23 hours ago — St. Vin. and Gren.: +5 cases (now 2326) since 2 days ago | 11:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: COVID-19 has spurred investments in air filtration for K-12 schools – but these technologies aren't an instant fix → https://is.gd/XwbawM | 11:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Austria: +1602 cases (now 683219), +4 deaths (now 10776), +255447 tests (now 75.4 million) since 23 hours ago | 12:07 |
| darsie | Austria | 12:07 |
| darsie | offloop says 1438 | 12:09 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Slovenia: +544 cases (now 265703), +2 deaths (now 4446) since a day ago — Israel: +6474 cases (now 1.0 million), +14 deaths (now 6943), +133423 tests (now 18.9 million) since 16 hours ago — France: +128 deaths (now 114097) since 14 hours ago | 12:32 |
| * merit blinks | 12:36 | |
| -Bridgestorm- 🏠 Linog! Lindol! Earthquake! 5.8 Mb tremor, registered by GFZ,alomax, with 54 reports, 20 early, occurred 12 minutes ago (10:22:24 UTC), with a gibbous moon, Pangyan, Philippines (5.69, 125.36) ± 4 km, ↓7 km likely felt 250 km away (in General Santos…) by 1.1 million people (www.seismicportal.eu) | 12:36 | |
| zutt | ;o ono | 12:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Blood clot risk greater after Covid infection than after vaccination (Data analysis of 29 million people) → https://is.gd/g3ERZt | 13:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Malaysia: +22070 cases (now 1.7 million), +339 deaths (now 15550), +155669 vaccines (now 18.9 million) since 23 hours ago — Romania: +946 cases (now 1.1 million), +19 deaths (now 34490), +9647 vaccines (now 5.2 million), +40000 tests (now 11.4 million) since 23 hours ago — Australia: +624 cases (now 48808), +183328 vaccines (now 11.5 million) since 8 hours ago | 13:09 |
| pwr22 | <archpc> "Can we just get the “I Am Legend..." <- Lol, I've thought about that before 😛 | 13:11 |
| pwr22 | Glad to hear you seem to be gradually on the mend | 13:14 |
| archpc | I appreciate it man | 13:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from BioNTech: Joint Communiqué: BioNTech Evaluates mRNA Vaccine Manufacturing Solutions in Rwanda and Senegal to Improve Long-Term Vaccine Supply: BERLIN, GERMANY, August 27, 2021 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) – BioNTech SE (Nasdaq: BNTX, “BioNTech” or “the Company”) agreed today to evaluate the establishment of sustainable vaccine manufacturing [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/VYPwJB | 13:20 |
| de-facto | great, seems BioNTech establishes manufacturing in many places worldwide | 13:24 |
| de-facto | hey archpc how are you doing there? | 13:24 |
| archpc | I’m a little bit better | 13:25 |
| de-facto | oh nice! | 13:25 |
| de-facto | very glad to hear | 13:25 |
| archpc | Still can’t really walk without my heart rate skyrocketing tho | 13:26 |
| de-facto | yeah take it easy | 13:26 |
| de-facto | just a bit of mobility yet not as much as stressing the heart rate | 13:27 |
| archpc | Well, standing up stresses it | 13:28 |
| de-facto | yeah just do exactly as you did, if you are already better it seems to work | 13:31 |
| de-facto | give it some time | 13:31 |
| de-facto | oxygen levels and temp ok? | 13:32 |
| de-facto | or at least not worse? | 13:32 |
| archpc | 85 as of 7:00 | 13:33 |
| archpc | Temp is normal | 13:33 |
| de-facto | nice so no fever but still low yet not worse oxygen levels | 13:34 |
| de-facto | maybe it just needs some time to recover | 13:34 |
| de-facto | do you have a headache from that? | 13:34 |
| archpc | Eh, a small one | 13:40 |
| de-facto | you seem pretty clear though | 13:41 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Guam: +179 cases (now 10046) since 23 hours ago — Tajikistan: +139 cases (now 16653) since 3 days ago — Nepal: +1577 cases (now 756492), +25 deaths (now 10663) since 23 hours ago — UAE: +994 cases (now 714396), +4 deaths (now 2035), +300828 tests (now 73.5 million) since a day ago | 13:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Lancet (Online): [Articles] Haemodynamic-guided management of heart failure (GUIDE-HF): a randomised controlled trial: Haemodynamic-guided management of heart failure did not result in a lower composite endpoint rate of mortality and total heart failure events compared with the control group in the overall study analysis. However, a [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/AEulWm | 14:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from Derek Lowe: @Dereklowe: Remember those “America’s Frontline Doctors” people? Here’s how they pivoted from misinformation about hydroxychloroquine to misinformation about ivermectin.Anything, anything to avoid vaccines. It’s beneath contempt. → https://is.gd/8S2QEB | 14:45 |
| Jbwncster | https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/08/26/rupaul-anti-mask-jimmy-kimmel-drag-race/ | 15:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Contagion Live: Long-Acting Monoclonal Antibody Could Protect Against Malaria: The National Institutes of Health (NIH) announces single injection of monoclonal antibody against the Plasmodium mosquito-borne parasite prevented malaria throughout 9 month phase 1 trial. → https://is.gd/3yiOLr | 15:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Smart mitigation tactics in Oregon dealing with DeltaLeadership matters. @OregonGovBrown https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/26/us/oregon-coronavirus-masks-ted-wheeler.html?searchResultPosition=2 by @MrOlmos @ByMikeBaker → https://is.gd/SVJ34z | 15:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: We've seen this movie before and it didn't end wellhttps://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/26/sturgis-motorcycle-rally-covid-cases/ @britsham @KnowlesHannah @dtkeating → https://is.gd/joNXAn | 15:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Vietnam: +11621 cases (now 404559) since 22 hours ago — Switzerland: +1840 cases (now 769841) since a day ago — Zambia: +389 cases (now 205704), +8596 tests (now 2.3 million) since 15 hours ago | 15:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Iraq: +7202 cases (now 1.9 million), +79 deaths (now 20559), +41896 tests (now 14.2 million) since 22 hours ago — Gibraltar: +9 cases (now 5323), +780 tests (now 334433) since 23 hours ago | 16:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Blood clot risk much higher from Covid-19 than after vaccination: Oxford-led study → https://is.gd/pkgOb9 | 16:11 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Serbia: +2434 cases (now 753581), +8 deaths (now 7248), +14447 tests (now 5.0 million) since a day ago — New Zealand: +57 cases (now 3179) since 14 hours ago — Kenya: +932 cases (now 233801), +31 deaths (now 4666), +9424 tests (now 2.4 million) since 22 hours ago — Qatar: +289 cases (now 232004), +1 deaths (now 602), +5329 tests (now 2.5 million) since 22 hours ago | 16:40 |
| iLinux-OS-User | Chinese Bio-warfare Division = Covid 19 | 16:52 |
| iLinux-OS-User | Why no nation has asked China to pay Bio-War Reparations for releasing Covid 19 Bio-Weapon againts the rest of the Planet?! | 16:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: When Is a Person With COVID-19 Most Infectious?: Research shows two days before and three days after COVID symptoms develop are the most infectious days, which highlight the importance of rapid testing and quarantine if someone is feeling sick. → https://is.gd/JSccdO | 17:00 |
| specing | iLinux-OS-User: Why the Capitalisations? | 17:00 |
| iLinux-OS-User | Why not? | 17:01 |
| iLinux-OS-User | Emphasis. Does it bother you? Are you Chinese? | 17:02 |
| antepost[m] | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkWOpFk1GGk | 17:02 |
| specing | It bothers me because my native language is one that does not use random mid-sentence capitalisations | 17:02 |
| antepost[m] | * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkWOpFk1GGk | 17:03 |
| antepost[m] | Tokyo's Medical Assoc. Chairman holds press conference recommending Ivermectin to all COVID patients | 17:03 |
| specing | I've also never seen this used outside news titles and trolls on IRC | 17:03 |
| specing | antepost[m]: is that person a doctor? | 17:03 |
| antepost[m] | Tokyo's Medical Assoc. Chairman | 17:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belarus: +1862 cases (now 476265), +12 deaths (now 3735) since a day ago | 17:05 |
| specing | antepost[m]: I'm just asking because I'm not familiar with the guy and I've not seen doctor (dr.) titles near his name | 17:06 |
| specing | chairman sounds political | 17:06 |
| iLinux-OS-User | specing You are a Troll Spammer. | 17:09 |
| specing | right, projection | 17:09 |
| iLinux-OS-User | Reverse psychology won't get you anywhere with me... | 17:10 |
| specing | Ok, so i'll answer your question: asking china to do X will not get you anywhere and applying sanctions/tariffs to recoup the costs will hurt your economy more than China's. | 17:11 |
| specing | That's why | 17:11 |
| antepost[m] | <specing> ".¡𝖠𝗇𝗍𝖾𝗉𝗈𝗌𝗍¡.: is that person a..." <- Dr. Haruo Ozaki | 17:12 |
| iLinux-OS-User | China must pay for what she has done to the rest of the world! This is war! China is killing all of us with Covid 19! | 17:12 |
| specing | I personally believe that it escaped from a lab. Why? Because China is blocking investigations. | 17:12 |
| iLinux-OS-User | Escaped???!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!! | 17:13 |
| specing | iLinux-OS-User: go call your elected representative and tell them that. | 17:13 |
| iLinux-OS-User | "Elected" representatives are all controled and sodomized by Communist China... | 17:14 |
| specing | right | 17:15 |
| * specing sees himself out of this conversation | 17:15 | |
| iLinux-OS-User | specing can't handle the conversation... | 17:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Clinical and Functional Outcomes of Critically Ill Patients With COVID-19 → https://is.gd/CelOBQ | 17:23 |
| iLinux-OS-User | Clinical Trials must convert to Criminal Trials... | 17:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Retrospective Study of COVID-19 Vaccines in Patients Undergoing Immunotherapy for Cancer. → https://is.gd/aILIQ5 | 17:47 |
| LjL | <specing> I've also never seen this used outside news titles and trolls on IRC ← and MDs, to be fair | 17:55 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Tunisia: +3763 cases (now 654798), +98 deaths (now 23030) since a day ago — Palestine: +1863 cases (now 334472), +6 deaths (now 3663) since a day ago — Bangladesh: +3525 cases (now 1.5 million), +117 deaths (now 25846) since a day ago | 18:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from Scientific American: COVID, Quickly, Episode 13: Vaccine Approval, Breakthrough Infections, Boosters: Today we bring you a new episode in our podcast series COVID, Quickly. Every two weeks, Scientific American’s senior health editors Tanya Lewis and Josh Fischman catch you up on the... -- Read more on ScientificAmerican.com → https://is.gd/ejmzwT | 18:11 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +7823 cases (now 4.5 million), +45 deaths (now 129002), +265480 tests (now 83.1 million) since 22 hours ago — United Kingdom: +37690 cases (now 6.7 million), +1025336 tests (now 266.7 million) since 15 hours ago — Greece: +3067 cases (now 576672), +22 deaths (now 13509), +112929 tests (now 15.2 million) since 22 hours ago | 18:32 |
| LjL | yay case record | 18:33 |
| de-facto | meh Germany is faster... | 18:34 |
| de-facto | in full blown uncontrolled incidence explosion | 18:35 |
| de-facto | http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=France;Spain;Italy;Germany;Switzerland;Austria;Slovenia&byPopulation=yes&cumulative=no&smooth=yes&miscType=Reff | 18:37 |
| de-facto | LjL, how come Italy looks so good in terms of R~1 | 18:37 |
| LjL | i don't know, it looked like it had reached its peak and was starting to go down, but instead it's going up just slower | 18:38 |
| LjL | now a region or two (Sicily mainly) will become "yellow" because they're not going well at all | 18:39 |
| LjL | don't ask me what "yellow" entails these days because they've kept changing it | 18:39 |
| de-facto | i am a bit worried, i dont know what the plan for Germany is, they canceled all thresholds | 18:42 |
| de-facto | i guess rip through? | 18:42 |
| de-facto | already at daily 12k+ | 18:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from Science Daily: Simple safety measures reduce musical COVID-19 transmission: Researchers have found that while playing musical instruments can emit the same levels of potentially COVID-laden airborne particles as singing, simple safety measures, such as masking instruments, social distancing and implementing time limits, significantly reduce [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/DkDrDz | 18:48 |
| Arsanerit | Why are cases dropping in The Netherlands when there are no restrictions there? | 18:49 |
| Arsanerit | Why are cases flat in Denmark when there are few restrictions there? | 18:49 |
| de-facto | and why are they rising in Germany that fast? | 18:51 |
| de-facto | schools? | 18:51 |
| Arsanerit | Right. I don't understand the differences between the countries. | 18:51 |
| Arsanerit | I can't seem to correlate them to different policies anymore. | 18:51 |
| de-facto | incidence per age group | 18:51 |
| Arsanerit | Is it because Denmark has more people vaccinated? | 18:51 |
| Sky_Net | Okay guys i gotta admit all world gone CRAZY because of this pandemic, my social life is ruined, compared to what i had two years ago, global depression affects everyone | 18:57 |
| Sky_Net | So i've been thinking about some new ways of entertainment for massive audience and it needs to be something crazy and fun, so i think we should allow GLADIATOR fights in big Colisseums like in Ancient Rome | 18:58 |
| Arsanerit | I didn't have a social life two years ago and I still don't. | 18:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Scotland records huge increase in daily Covid cases: A total of 6,835 new cases were reported on Friday - more than 1,800 above the previous highest figure. → https://is.gd/PyslrA | 18:59 |
| Sky_Net | Like, people watch MMA fights etc where ppl hurt each other, why can't they watch deadly fights? xD Of course all Human Rights needs to be applied and Gladiators should have very big salaries! | 18:59 |
| Sky_Net | What do you think? | 18:59 |
| de-facto | Arsanerit, some countries got a steep Delta surge and then peaked, either went down a bit or plateaued, i guess it has something to do with age group localized incidence, e.g. endemic level reached temporarily in one densely connected age group until it jumps over to the next susceptible group | 19:00 |
| de-facto | Sky_Net, how is the situation in Moscow there? | 19:01 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Chile: +669 cases (now 1.6 million), +29 deaths (now 36807), +60920 tests (now 20.1 million) since a day ago | 19:10 |
| Arsanerit | did those peak levels result in unacceptable levels of ICU occupancy or mortality, or do people who say we can live with the virus have a point? What I don't know is, what is the way out? I don't believe zero covid is realistic anymore except for remote island countries. | 19:11 |
| Arsanerit | Under what circumstances can covid be treated like pre-covid endemic diseases that come and go in (yearly) waves? | 19:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: India vaccinated 10 million people today, highest ever record → https://is.gd/djNhbl | 19:23 |
| nixonix | when theres enough lasting immunity in population, and we know about the prevalence and have ways to prevent permanent organ damages and stuff. immunity vs emerging immunity evading variants probably needs pan-betacoronavirus vaccine and/or good nasal vaccines | 19:28 |
| nixonix | but maybe it becomes sooner through breakthroughs, which seem to provide more lasting immunity (and the organ and chromosome damage for vaccinated - may take years or even decades to find out the whole scope of it) | 19:29 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/NickSawyerMD/status/1430356169814528000 | 19:29 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Nick Sawyer, MD, MBA, FACEP (@NickSawyerMD): "This is how I know COVID is going to get worse. There are adults - and parents of children - who not only refuse to get the COVID-19 vaccine but also [...] | 19:30 |
| nixonix | in sacramento, cali | 19:30 |
| Sky_Net | !cases Moscow | 19:33 |
| nixonix | ah jesus, im stupid. i just tried to find owid diagram for first vax doses, which would show not only the current situation but as curves how it progressed (to see when in europe we will see the waning effect) | 19:33 |
| Sky_Net | %cases Moscow | 19:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Azerbaijan: +4203 cases (now 409745), +35 deaths (now 5469) since a day ago | 19:33 |
| Brainstorm | Sky_Net: Moscow, Russia has had 1.6 million confirmed cases (12.3% of all people) and 27193 deaths (1.7% of cases) as of 11 hours ago. +1712 cases, +54 deaths since a day ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Moscow | 19:33 |
| Brainstorm | Sky_Net: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Moscow, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 19:33 |
| nixonix | i thought there was not such diagram, but then saw a pic of just that in a tweet. you need to click another slider button under the bar diagram, which then appears and there will be those curves | 19:34 |
| Sky_Net | %cases Grenoble | 19:34 |
| Brainstorm | Sky_Net: Sorry, Grenoble not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 19:34 |
| Sky_Net | %cases France | 19:34 |
| Brainstorm | Sky_Net: France has had 6.7 million confirmed cases (10.0% of all people) and 114097 deaths (1.7% of cases) as of 7 hours ago. 121.5 million tests were done (5.5% positive). 47.8 million were vaccinated (71.3%). +128 deaths since 14 hours ago. See https://dashboard.covid19.data.gouv.fr/ or https://thibautfabacher.shinyapps.io/covid-france/ | 19:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: India achieves milestone of over 10 Million COVID-19 vaccinations on a single day → https://is.gd/16IbIa | 19:35 |
| Sky_Net | No Grenoble(( My sister in there | 19:35 |
| nixonix | do the larger eu countries - italy, france, germany - still use 3-4 week dose interval for mrna vaccines? if they switched to longer, when did the change happen? | 19:36 |
| de-facto | My Moderna primer was scheduled at 1st of June, booster at 13th of July, hence 6weeks by default back then | 19:37 |
| nixonix | or spain (intervals) | 19:38 |
| de-facto | actually i would like to see antibody half life as function of delay between primer and booster for all different vaccine types | 19:39 |
| de-facto | per age group of course | 19:39 |
| de-facto | (as everything in epidemics) | 19:39 |
| nixonix | im trying to pinpoint the time when those somewhat spreading and getting infections (brob 60 yo), did get the 2nd dose - and then 5-6 months from that and there should be noticeable amount of reinfections. at least with 3-4 w interval | 19:40 |
| nixonix | maybe around mid april or so in many countries with shorter intervals. mid sep would make 5 months. so not yet | 19:41 |
| Sky_Net | %cases Isère | 19:41 |
| Brainstorm | Sky_Net: Sorry, Isère not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 19:41 |
| Sky_Net | %cases Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes | 19:41 |
| Brainstorm | Sky_Net: Sorry, Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 19:41 |
| nixonix | both abs and t-cells come crashing down before 6 months for old people: | 19:42 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1431115225781071877 | 19:42 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): "A prospective assessment of the post-vaccination immune response to Delta in elderly and health care workers (HCW): The elderly have significant decline in anti-spike IgG, [...] | 19:42 |
| nixonix | and killer t-cells from mrna vaccines at least, for younger too, according to that recent study. anyone remembers which one it was? graphs had cd4 and cd8 symbols | 19:43 |
| nixonix | those killer t-cells are supposedly needed especially for immune evading variants. which means somewhat reduced protection for delta too within 6 months (along with reduced circulating abs) | 19:44 |
| de-facto | antibody titers should be some exponential with half life of maybe t2 ~ 50d or such | 19:47 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2103916 | 19:48 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.nejm.org: Antibody Persistence through 6 Months after the Second Dose of mRNA-1273 Vaccine for Covid-19 | NEJM | 19:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Large outbreaks in US schoolsWhy aren't rapid home antigen tests being freely supplied for all kids, staff to be done on a frequent basis to help prevent outbreaks as has been achieved in multiple other countries? → https://is.gd/lQTD0X | 19:48 |
| de-facto | "The estimated half-life of binding antibodies after day 43 for all the participants was 52 days (95% CI, 46 to 58) calculated with the use of an exponential decay model, which assumes a steady decay rate over time" | 19:48 |
| de-facto | "and 109 days (95% CI, 92 to 136) calculated with the use of a power-law model (at day 119), which assumes that decay rates decrease over time" | 19:49 |
| de-facto | "The neutralizing antibody half-life estimates in the two models were 69 days (95% CI, 61 to 76) and 173 days (95% CI, 144 to 225) for pseudovirus neutralization and 68 days (95% CI, 61 to 75) and 202 days (95% CI, 159 to 272) for live-virus neutralization." | 19:49 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/rishirajgoel/status/1430148915064676352 - here the killer t-cell (cd8) waning too | 19:51 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Rishi Goel (@rishirajgoel): "How long does immune memory last after #mRNA vax? Immunity vs. variants? What happens when you “boost” w/ vaccine? Our work on durability & evolution of memory responses [...] | 19:51 |
| de-facto | hmm nixonix i wonder how directly that would relate to breakthrough cases, would those double each two months without antigenic drift when normalized for age group specific incidence? | 19:51 |
| de-facto | breakthrough case *rates | 19:52 |
| de-facto | no its more complex actually hmm | 19:53 |
| nixonix | hard to say, how important they are, and how important vs delta and SA vs older variants. there was some macaque study where they used anti-cd8 antibodies, maybe that will tell something, but not sure if applied for humans similarly | 19:55 |
| nixonix | this might have something, but i just found it and havent read: | 19:57 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-021-00578-z | 19:57 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nature.com: Immunological mechanisms of vaccine-induced protection against COVID-19 in humans | Nature Reviews Immunology | 19:57 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-03041-6 | 20:04 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nature.com: Correlates of protection against SARS-CoV-2 in rhesus macaques | Nature | 20:04 |
| nixonix | one 2017 flu study title is: "Resident memory CD8+ T cells in the upper respiratory tract prevent pulmonary influenza virus infection" | 20:07 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-021-00550-x - this had something, but not much, about cd8's part of protection | 20:09 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nature.com: Prospects for durable immune control of SARS-CoV-2 and prevention of reinfection | Nature Reviews Immunology | 20:09 |
| nixonix | protection of convalescent macaques against rechallenge with SARS-CoV-2 was partially abrogated by CD8 depletion before rechallenge. NAb titres declined in convalescent macaques from week 4 to week 7, with over half of the macaques exhibiting NAb titres of <100 by week 7. | 20:13 |
| de-facto | for each breakthrough case we would need to know 1) patient age 2) current background incidence in that age group 3) delay since full vaccination 4) vaccine type 5) booster delay for full vaccination 6) VoC sequence 7) estimate of contamination dose 8) disease trajectory | 20:13 |
| nixonix | CD8 depletion in these macaques resulted in a loss of protection in the upper respiratory tract against rechallenge with SARS-CoV-2, which suggests that CD8+ T cells contribute to virological control if NAb titres are suboptimal or subprotective | 20:13 |
| nixonix | cd8 helping more for breakthroughs than meager IgG in upper respiratory? in humans too? | 20:14 |
| nixonix | too bad they wane fast too | 20:15 |
| nixonix | btw about that israel study. those that had their primary infection not very long time ago, then got reinfected, arent probably as likely to go get tested than those vaccinated that got a breakthrough infection | 20:17 |
| nixonix | since in most cases symptoms are not severe (primary infection), and they arent as worried when they get some mild symptoms, as those that get it the first time. also if they contact healthcare and ask if they should get tested, saying they just had it a few months ago, they might answer, nah, its prob some cold | 20:18 |
| nixonix | so the result of that study may exaggerate the difference of protection from natural infection vs vaccine | 20:19 |
| nixonix | but anyway it looks like its more lasting. what could cause it? probably not just the circulating anti-spike titers. killer t-cells, N protein, modified innate immunity? or memory b-cell maturation differencies? | 20:22 |
| nixonix | probably not N, since those chinese whole virus vaccines are so week | 20:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: TikTok warns users and bans videos of the 'milk crate' challenge that has left some badly injured at a time when hospitals already are strained by COVID → https://is.gd/TEXtBx | 20:24 |
| nixonix | maybe its difference in mucosal immunity, because its mostly about infection rather than symtom severity | 20:26 |
| nixonix | natural infection prob doesnt improve IgG migration to upper resp, IgA should wane fast from natural infection. what else is there, killer t-cells and innate immunity from those parts that infection changes somewhat | 20:27 |
| nixonix | if its total neutralization during the first few days, the difference should be in something that is fast. so maybe not memory b-cell antibodies. i dont remember how fast killer t-cell response is, should probably check that | 20:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Africa: +12045 cases (now 2.7 million), +361 deaths (now 81187), +63287 tests (now 16.3 million) since 23 hours ago — Morocco: +6863 cases (now 843357), +92 deaths (now 12268), +44030 tests (now 8.8 million) since a day ago — Switzerland: +917 cases (now 770758) since 4 hours ago [... want %more?] | 20:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: Latest topics: Faculty Position in Phylodynamics/Genomic Epidemiology at Fred Hutch: Description The Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center (Fred Hutch) invites applicants for an open full-time faculty position at the assistant or associate level in the Vaccine and Infectious Disease Division (VIDD). The successful candidate [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/GNOcIB | 20:37 |
| twomoon | hello | 20:37 |
| twomoon | should i be scared of ADE? | 20:37 |
| nixonix | no, they havent found ade from sars2, with these variants anyway | 20:43 |
| nixonix | and even if they do, its probably rare | 20:43 |
| nixonix | or so mild effect, that it doesnt matter much | 20:44 |
| twomoon | oh i thought they found it | 20:44 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/hjelle_brian/status/1430265085704826880 | 20:48 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Brian Hjelle, virologist (@hjelle_brian): "The reason I discount ADE as important in COVID is that it stands alone as an epi finding that has yet to be reported. More easily shown in cell culture or [...] | 20:48 |
| nixonix | apparently they have found infected macrophages, but it could be due to some other mechanism like syncytia (or even if its via fcr, then probably not big problem anyway) | 20:49 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/gerdosi/status/1430262387223957510 - discussion on ADE but better not believe everything in this thread | 20:54 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Gabor Erdosi 🧩📄📊🧭 (@gerdosi): "Antibody depending enhancement was a threat that looked possible (or even likely) a year ago, based on experience with historical CoV vaccine attempts. Then it started [...] | 20:55 |
| nixonix | they should do human challenge test now, using vaccinated with different types of vaccines, studying everything possible what does and what does not provide lasting immunity, and prevents upper respiratory infection | 20:56 |
| nixonix | when british were really trying to do that late summer 2020, they demanded there would be a placebo arm, and i didnt think that would happen. and it didnt | 20:57 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Albania: +921 cases (now 143174), +1 deaths (now 2487), +6184 tests (now 1.0 million) since a day ago — Spain: +9489 cases (now 4.8 million), +139 deaths (now 84000) since a day ago — Turkey: +12652 cases (now 6.3 million), +295647 tests (now 75.3 million) since 20 hours ago [... want %more?] | 21:01 |
| Jbwncster | https://www.wral.com/coronavirus/dhhs-unvaccinated-people-15-times-more-likely-to-die-from-covid-19/19845633/ | 21:01 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1430706897955565572 | 21:02 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Prof Francois Balloux (@BallouxFrancois): "This preprint is a bit of a bombshell. The results point to natural infection affording longer-lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic [...] | 21:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid-19: India vaccinates record 10 Million -plus people in a day → https://is.gd/oXYiyG | 21:03 |
| nixonix | .title https://covid19.ncdhhs.gov/media/380/open | 21:05 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From covid19.ncdhhs.gov: Untitled (Wilson, Erica F) | 21:05 |
| nixonix | * Respiratory Surveillance: August 15 – August 21, 2021 | 21:06 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.ncdhhs.gov/news/press-releases/2021/08/27/adult-icu-patients-hit-record-highs-pandemic-new-report-shows-unvaccinated-people-are-more-15-times?mc_cid=a41d723bba&mc_eid=59c572e91a | 21:07 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.ncdhhs.gov: As Adult ICU Patients Hit Record Highs for the Pandemic, New Report Shows Unvaccinated People Are More Than 15 Times More Likely to Die From COVID-19 Compared to Vaccinated People | NCDHHS | 21:07 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/russia-s-sputnik-v-protects-against-severe-covid-19-delta-variant-study-shows | 21:09 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.sciencemag.org: Russia’s Sputnik V protects against severe COVID-19 from Delta variant, study shows | Science | AAAS | 21:09 |
| nixonix | if you trust their stats. almost exact 800 daily deaths for many weeks... | 21:10 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1431063199047057408 - this is about abs only, not about protection | 21:20 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): "The highly anticipated study of J&J booster antibody responses is out. (Note this is not the 2-dose Ph3 clinical trial.) As mentioned in press release a 2nd J&J [...] | 21:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: News Scan for Aug 27, 2021: COVID clot risk comparison COVID-19 with kids' cancer Italian meat Salmonella outbreak → https://is.gd/bLnQuD | 21:26 |
| nixonix | are there some expert analysis out yet on that british clotting study? when they havent found similar amount of CVST, TTS etc serious thromboses from az (but instead similar levels than from pfizer), unlike many other countries? | 21:31 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Djibouti: +9 cases (now 11721) since 18 hours ago — France: +131 deaths (now 114116) since 19 hours ago — Mali: +11 cases (now 14814), +1 deaths (now 538), +1310 tests (now 377668) since 21 hours ago | 21:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from FDA Press Releases: FDA: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: August 27, 2021 → https://is.gd/U4EIMJ | 21:39 |
| holodeck | US intelligence community review does not determine origin of Covid-19 | 21:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: R to @EricTopol: Case in pointThis Delta outbreak happened in Marin County, CA, one of the most highly vaccinated in the US, starting with an unvaccinated teacher.https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e2.htm?s_cid=mm7035e2_wNo mention of rapid tests in this @CDCMMWR reportYes on ventilation, masking, 💉💉 [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/tOdMG2 | 21:50 |
| nixonix | i hate the idea that i have hhv-3 in my brain (which could be reactivated any time, or in event of some viral event or vaccination). should prob get vaccinated against it some day | 21:51 |
| nixonix | viral *infection | 21:52 |
| Arsanerit | Yesterday I learned that in Germany, a teenager cannot get vaccinated without parental consent. :-( | 21:53 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/ProfMakris/status/1430994900259061769 | 22:00 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Michael Makris (@ProfMakris): "These are the cases of VITT in the UK by decade of age (strictly they are TTS not VITT) as reported by the MHRA today. Still no data on the number of persons vaccinated [...] | 22:00 |
| nixonix | no TTS or VITT mentioned in that bmj report | 22:01 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2111305 (!) | 22:02 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nejm.org: No Correlation between Anti-PF4 and Anti–SARS-CoV-2 Antibodies after ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 Vaccination | NEJM | 22:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID19 Vaccine Tracker: Andy Becker: Aivita Biomedical Inc: AV-COVID-19 → https://is.gd/qrWy9m | 22:03 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/ProfMakris/status/1430993831164628994 | 22:04 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Michael Makris (@ProfMakris): "These are the myocarditis and pericarditis adverse events reported after vaccination against #COVID19 in the UK as reported today by the MHRA." | nitter | 22:04 |
| nixonix | what are the shares of different manufacturers doses administered in uk? not found in owid. who was that guy that was handy with uk govt data? | 22:04 |
| nixonix | "Replication-defective and single-cycle viral vectors are attractive alternatives that have an increased safety profile and, in some cases, are still able to elicit a strong immune response | 22:12 |
| nixonix | so it looks like you can do replication-competent viral vector with one cycle only | 22:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: Africa's COVID-19 trend stabilizes, vaccine push intensifies: Lisa Schnirring | News Editor | CIDRAP News Aug 27, 2021 Officials are hopeful Africa can reach 10% of its population with vaccine by the end of September. → https://is.gd/kEJxJE | 22:15 |
| nixonix | Dendritic Cell Vaccine, AV-COVID-19 ... vaccine consisting of autologous dendritic cells previously loaded ex vivo with SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, with or without GM-CSF | 22:16 |
| nixonix | so is that just the way they studied it, but then used viral vectors dna (instead of putting rna to dentritic cells of the test subject)? | 22:22 |
| nixonix | "multiple antigens were loaded onto the dendritic cells and the resulting vaccine mounted an appropriate immune response in lymphocytes from the same recipient" | 22:24 |
| nixonix | AIVITA’s personalized vaccine begins with a basic blood draw, from which the recipient’s own immune cells are extracted and loaded with SARS-CoV-2 antigen. The resulting personalized treatment is designed to create adaptive immunity against COVID-19 | 22:25 |
| nixonix | i was wondering what the heck is that vaccines mechanism | 22:28 |
| nixonix | Self-replicating RNA transfected into dendritic cells (66) has been shown to induce an immune response in vivo | 22:29 |
| nixonix | One study comparing the efficacy of conventional mRNA versus self-amplifying RNA found that both were effective in protecting mice against influenza infection, but that self-amplifying RNA elicited protection at a much lower RNA dose and induced a delayed yet longer-lasting antigen expression | 22:30 |
| nixonix | one of the 4 pfizers candidates they tested on humans was self-amplifying type | 22:30 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.biospace.com/article/releases/aivita-biomedical-completes-phase-1-study-of-personalized-covid-19-vaccine-candidate-av-covid-19/ | 22:31 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.biospace.com: AIVITA Biomedical Completes Phase 1 Study of Personalized COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate, AV-COVID-19 | BioSpace | 22:31 |
| nixonix | .title https://aivitabiomedical.com/programs/sars-cov-2/ | 22:31 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From aivitabiomedical.com: SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine – AIVITA Biomedical | 22:31 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2020.583077/full | 22:32 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.frontiersin.org: Frontiers | Emerging Concepts and Technologies in Vaccine Development | Immunology | 22:32 |
| nixonix | .title https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27987142/ | 22:37 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Self-Replicating RNA Vaccine Delivery to Dendritic Cells - PubMed | 22:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: The evidence of mRNA vaccine effectiveness (VE) waning grows: large Qatar experience shows substantial 5 month attrition for symptomatic infection VE below 50% and, to a lesser extent, vs hospitalization and deathhttps://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.25.21262584v1 → https://is.gd/2km02x | 22:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kuwait: +168 cases (now 409177), +1 deaths (now 2415), +14504 tests (now 3.7 million) since 22 hours ago | 22:41 |
| nixonix | that quatar study, page 10. the study was mostly during beta variant time, which peaked there after alpha. then at the later times delta there too | 22:56 |
| nixonix | beta = SA variant i think. could it overtake delta when immunity increases enough (vaccinations, infections, breakthroughs, 3rd doses), because its more evasive? | 22:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: "China's cooperation most likely would be needed to reach a conclusive assessment of the origins of Covid-19" US intelligence community review does not determine origin of Covid-19 → https://is.gd/SVKbEU | 23:04 |
| nixonix | pfizer VE vs infection (mostly - only 25.9% of cases were found due to symptoms), 15-19 weeks after 2nd dose in quatar: 29.7%. after 19 weeks: 0% | 23:11 |
| nixonix | vs severe looks good till 24 weeks. not enough data after that | 23:12 |
| nixonix | so its a 4 months vacc vs symptoms? | 23:12 |
| nixonix | i mean infection | 23:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: The James Webb Space Telescope, NASA's next great observatory, passes final ground tests → https://is.gd/l0LgGP | 23:15 |
| LjL | bleh :( | 23:15 |
| nixonix | its burning through everybody in couple of months if we think its time to "learn to live with the virus" | 23:15 |
| LjL | %variant south african | 23:16 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, That variant may also be called: Beta, B.1.351, 20H(Beta, V2) | 23:16 |
| nixonix | but its not hard to calculate hospital numbers, icu etc. so thats positive | 23:16 |
| nixonix | negative is, we dont know about all the permanent damage. for kids especially | 23:16 |
| nixonix | so there was also some good news from me! (calculation easy) | 23:17 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: [Reuters] Japan suspends use of 1.63 million Moderna Vaccines for contaminate particle that reacts to magnets → https://is.gd/qkZ4tv | 23:17 |
| LjL | the press really enjoys rubbing that "reacts to magnets" in | 23:17 |
| archpc | Hah | 23:17 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: US Spy Agencies: COVID-19 'Not a Bioweapon,' Can't Rule Out Lab Hypothesis → https://is.gd/maIU3c | 23:19 |
| LjL | this includes the actual report as PDF at the bottom of the article | 23:20 |
| LjL | archpc, any better? | 23:20 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.statnews.com/2021/08/19/natural-pandemic-terrible-synthetic-one-even-worse/ | 23:20 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.statnews.com: A synthetic pandemic could be far, far worse than Covid-19 - STAT | 23:20 |
| LjL | well it includes two pages of it actually | 23:20 |
| LjL | i assume it was longer | 23:20 |
| LjL | hmm actually that may be all that's released as unclassified :\ | 23:21 |
| archpc | LjL, not really | 23:22 |
| ublx | heartwarming notes on UK medical regulator and conflicts of interest in general: https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2021/08/why-is-the-gates-foundation-funding-the-uks-medicines-regulator.html | 23:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: R to @EricTopol: The findings are consistent w/ Israel's data for @BioNTech_Group/@Pfizer vaccine —Substantial attrition after 5 months for protection vs symptomatic infections —Preserved protection vs hospitalizations and deaths (w/ perhaps some decline)But Beta and Delta (not just Delta) → https://is.gd/fmiBGj | 23:26 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: US Spy Agencies: COVID-19 'Not a Bioweapon,' Can't Rule Out Lab Hypothesis ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/WW7AXVXN ) | 23:28 | |
| LjL | ublx, i thought you might have been being sarcastic, now i've read enough of it to know, unless there's an actually heartwarming twist which i doubt | 23:31 |
| ublx | nope, sry, was sarcasm | 23:32 |
| ublx | what timeline are you in and where is the portal to cross over (to the one in which something heartwarming could be said on such a theme) | 23:33 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/ProfMakris/status/1430992170379530251 | 23:37 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Michael Makris (@ProfMakris): "The MHRA, the UK regulator, have released the data on adverse events reported relating to the #COVID19 vaccines. I believe that most of the new cases are ones that have [...] | 23:37 |
| nixonix | (and there was that doses by manufacturer in the earlier table too - i just missed it somehow) | 23:37 |
| LjL | ublx, actually i don't know enough about bill gates and his foundation to have a strong opinion, and i think there's a combination of laziness and not *wanting* to find out at work there | 23:38 |
| LjL | i had already heard that he was involved in 1) making the Oxford vaccine exclusive to AstraZeneca instead of public the way it had been originally promised and 2) hinder the patent waiver process for vaccines | 23:38 |
| LjL | is it true? is he right in doing so, would companies stop making things if we start having waivers? i honestly don't know, i suspect not, my general principles say not and are generally wary of things like patents, but ultimately i don't know | 23:38 |
| LjL | was remdesivir hastily used because it makes money, while italian doctors are saying "hey just use aspirin, it works for many" and being ignored because it's not profitable? i also don't know, i have suspicions at times, and i generally end up feeling like i'll never be able to know anything | 23:39 |
| nixonix | VITT is vaccine-induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia. but those serious cases have only like 25% of time also thrombocytopenia, hmm... | 23:39 |
| LjL | you know, i have the same complaint about MOST twitterers that i have about newspapers: when they publish a table, why don't they link to the damned thing? | 23:40 |
| ublx | isn't it received wisdom now that remdesivir is practically worthless? | 23:40 |
| LjL | nixonix, certainly look higher with AZ despite yesterday's report that Pfizer was overall similar | 23:41 |
| LjL | but i guess they may have been reported more often about AZ after the issue was made public | 23:41 |
| LjL | (yesterday's study censored data after that) | 23:41 |
| LjL | ublx, i think so, but i was just using it as an example since the article does | 23:41 |
| LjL | ublx, what i mean in general is, we don't seem to have many effective treatments for covid in use... is that just because it's hard, or is it also because there might be some simple and effective treatments but they're too cheap and they've only been studied by a couple random doctors (by "random doctors" i still mean hospital CEOs and such when i think of the italian ones i have in mind, but the studies are with hundreds of patients at most), while the bulk of | 23:43 |
| LjL | the money has been invested in trying to repurpose expensive drugs? | 23:43 |
| nixonix | yeah, but which ones are those really bad ones, with whatever mortality (5% in aus, 23% in uk, 20-35% in various reports or estimates). i guess they were all CVST, with or without thrombocytopenia | 23:43 |
| LjL | nixonix, i don't know why that's not part of the table (that meaning mostly CVST) | 23:44 |
| nixonix | but brits always found less it than other countries, for some reason. like in usa sars2 seems to be way more serious for kids than in finland. strange differencies, which are usually due to classifying or data that is missing from the right stats (esp deaths, but sub-group data is usually even worse than large group data) | 23:44 |
| LjL | ublx, also how is Gates Warren Buffett's protege, and, err, although i know the answer from googling it, just to give the extent of my ignorance, who the hell is Warren Buffett | 23:46 |
| ublx | LjL: because it's hard and because investment will inevitably flow towards the pursuit of profit? | 23:46 |
| LjL | ublx, is it that inevitable, or do people like Gates help the inevitable happen much more inevitably? | 23:47 |
| ublx | wrt to the expense of clinical trials, sine qua non, i mean | 23:47 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/18/warren-buffett-buys-breakfast-from-mcdonalds-for-under-3-point-17.html | 23:49 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.cnbc.com: Warren Buffett buys breakfast from McDonald's for under $3.17 | 23:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: Half of US teens partially vaccinated against COVID: Lianna Matt McLernon | News Writer | CIDRAP News Aug 27, 2021 Also, the CDC does not intend to revisit its pre-Delta COVID-19 guidelines for schools . → https://is.gd/MsBGnd | 23:50 |
| ublx | LjL: about WB wrt BG, that remark was trying to illuminate the painting of BG as more akin to an investor like WB than the tech savant he might once have wished to be taken for | 23:50 |
| ublx | sry, i couldn't tell if that was a rhetorical question | 23:51 |
| LjL | well, i know he did personally write some BASIC interpreters | 23:51 |
| LjL | and i've used some Microsoft BASIC interpreters | 23:51 |
| LjL | and they S U C K E D | 23:51 |
| LjL | see: C64 BASIC | 23:51 |
| LjL | see: AmigaBASIC | 23:52 |
| LjL | not sure whether to include Visual Basic, it did let me do things i wouldn't have been able to do otherwise... | 23:52 |
| LjL | i forget if i've already added this "bombshell" (Balloux's word) paper about natural immunity working better than vaccines to the Zotero yesterday | 23:53 |
| LjL | i'm not happy about it, and i hope it's wrong, but given it's big and everything, i guess it's fair to have it ;( | 23:53 |
| ublx | oh? relink here for convenience? | 23:53 |
| LjL | i had not added it | 23:54 |
| LjL | bot will link in a minute | 23:54 |
| LjL | but there was a thread by Topol about it too, you may want to read it as well as Balloux's ones | 23:55 |
| LjL | one* | 23:55 |
| LjL | meh these people tweet too much | 23:56 |
| nixonix | But you won't find a computer. In fact, Buffett has managed to send just one email his entire life | 23:56 |
| ublx | blessed man | 23:56 |
| LjL | ublx, okay so he made one tweet about it https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1431064109663993858 and then in the tweet below he links to something he had said on the matter before but mainly links to this article about it https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-no-infection-parties | 23:57 |
| LjL | while this is Balloux's thread https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1430706897955565572 | 23:57 |
| LjL | and since the bot is sleeping, this is the paper https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1 | 23:57 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/QIVWPATN ) | 23:58 | |
| nixonix | the same with one of the few finnish billionares. but unlike buffet who uses landline, he used his old nokia non-smart phone until it broke, then tied to use Doro senior phone, but accidentally called "911", and then bought iphone | 23:58 |
| nixonix | tried | 23:58 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!
