| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: Two cannabinoids have opposing effects on SARS-CoV-2 in culture → https://arstechnica.com/ | 00:17 |
|---|---|---|
| Brainstorm | New from FDA Press Releases: FDA Takes Actions to Expand Use of Treatment for Outpatients with Mild-to-Moderate COVID-19: The FDA took two actions to expand the use of the antiviral drug Veklury (remdesivir) to certain non-hospitalized adults and [... want %more?] → http://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-actions-expand-use-treatment-outpatients-mild-moderate-covid-19 | 00:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Lancet (Online): [Articles] Heterologous versus homologous COVID-19 booster vaccination in previous recipients of two doses of CoronaVac COVID-19 vaccine in Brazil (RHH-001): a phase 4, non-inferiority, single blind, randomised study: Antibody concentrations were low at 6 [... want %more?] → https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(22)00094-0/fulltext | 00:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Felberbaum (@FDASpox): An important development with the potential to keep more adults and kids with COVID-19 out of the hospital. twitter.com/DrWoodcockFDA/… → https://twitter.com/FDASpox/status/1484670536881954820 | 00:45 |
| summonner | alright | 01:12 |
| summonner | so the Austrian Parliment have enforced injections of an experimental substance in all their citizens. | 01:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): outbreak.infoThe information resource that my @scrippsresearch colleagues built to help us all navigate through the pandemic biorxiv.org/content/10.110… led by @flaneuseks w/ @gkay92 @andrewsu @chunleiwu @K_G_Andersen and many indefatigable teammates pic.twitter.com/qR2LKeJ58Z → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1484679900325822464 | 01:14 |
| Tuvix | summonner: The use of what appear to be intentinally selected phrases may run contrary to the 24 months and counting of research the globe has amounted, and likely contrary to the guidelines you received on joining this channel. | 01:22 |
| Tuvix | I'd strongly suggest you give them a re-read and perhaps try another approach here. For reference, that would be here: https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/blob/master/COVID-19-chat.md | 01:22 |
| summonner | Tuvix, but it's forced injections | 01:23 |
| summonner | you don't get a choice | 01:23 |
| Tuvix | Let's constrast this to the US requirement for childhood vaccinations prior to admission into the school system then. | 01:24 |
| summonner | I'd rather Russia takes Ukraine to stop this | 01:24 |
| Tuvix | That seems a bit of a non sequitur, does it not? | 01:24 |
| summonner | this is horrific | 01:24 |
| Tuvix | You ignored my question. | 01:25 |
| Tuvix | (the prior one, not the nonsense about Russia to be clear) | 01:25 |
| summonner | they're going to hold you down and inject you | 01:25 |
| summonner | wait what? | 01:25 |
| Tuvix | That's not at all what's involved, no. You've not escalated your editoralizing for the 2nd time, and I'd just suggested you not continue. | 01:25 |
| Tuvix | You've now* excalated | 01:26 |
| summonner | i'm scared | 01:26 |
| summonner | this is me, I live in Austria | 01:26 |
| summonner | I'm unjabbed. I don't want it | 01:27 |
| summonner | Tuvix, I'm shaking | 01:27 |
| summonner | please | 01:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): A simpleone-page summary of everything you need to know about Covid hallmarks of severity in the blood, how it differs from flu, sepsis, and much morecell.com/cell/fulltext/… @CellCellPress @KnightGenetics(actually quite a rich resource @UniofOxford) pic.twitter.com/bk0AxwLItn → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1484684801021935616 | 01:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Omicron in HawaiiOne of several states showing no signs of let up pic.twitter.com/iDh5iY2dMH → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1484687989716316161 | 01:52 |
| lastshell | why some people assume after omicron pandemic will end ? | 02:53 |
| de-facto | because thats what people wish for, yet support for preventing infections wanes | 02:54 |
| lastshell | I guess is endemic now but that doest mean is gone right ? | 02:54 |
| LjL | it won't ever be gone | 02:54 |
| de-facto | omicron is seroevasive, hence does reinfect people with immunity to previous variants | 02:54 |
| lastshell | that is the scary part the current vaccines dont prevent infection | 02:54 |
| de-facto | they prevent hospitalization | 02:54 |
| lastshell | yeah I agree on that and I'm personally grateful | 02:55 |
| Tuvix | endemic just means it is a disease that makes regular (re)-apperances, but what we see currently globally is the new "regular" expectation, we're in for a world of suffering and death annually. | 02:55 |
| de-facto | very well btw, 9 out of 10 hospitalizations are prevented by vaccinations | 02:55 |
| lastshell | so will become sort of like flu, but I can tell was not normal flu for me | 02:56 |
| Tuvix | Sure, but you had vaccines working in your favor. | 02:56 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-sars-cov-2-variants-technical-briefings | 02:57 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.gov.uk: Investigation of SARS-CoV-2 variants: technical briefings - GOV.UK | 02:57 |
| de-facto | .title https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1048395/technical-briefing-34-14-january-2022.pdf <-- page 27 | 02:57 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From assets.publishing.service.gov.uk: SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation- Technical briefing 34 (UKHSA) | 02:57 |
| de-facto | "One dose of vaccine was associated with a 43% reduced risk of hospitalisation among symptomatic cases with the Omicron variant, 2 doses with a 55% reduction up to 24 weeks after the second dose and a 40% reduced risk 25 or more weeks after the second dose, and a third dose was associated with a 74% reduced risk of hospitalisation in the first 2 to 4 weeks after vaccination, dropping slightly to a 66% reduction by 10+ weeks after the booster dose." | 02:58 |
| de-facto | "When combined with vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic disease this was equivalent to vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation of 58% after one dose, 64% 2 to 24 weeks after 2 doses, 44% 25+ weeks after 2 doses, and 92% dropping to 83% 10+ weeks after a booster dose. Combining the periods for the third dose, overall vaccine effectiveness 2+ weeks after the booster was 89% (95% confidence interval 86 to 91%)." | 02:58 |
| de-facto | hence 89% VE against hospitalization (combining VE for infection and VE for severe progressions) meaning ~ 9 out of 10 hospitalizations (with Omicron) are prevented by booster vaccinations | 02:59 |
| Tuvix | At least of the undervaccinated population, yea. | 03:00 |
| de-facto | yes thats the metric, compare those that refuse vaccinations with those that took the benefit from the vaccinations offered to them | 03:00 |
| Tuvix | It'll still be close to 9 in 10, but there will always be breakthrough infections, hospitalizations, and deaths. This said, hospitals and ICUs would be able to cope more fully if we didn't have the huge pile of un/under-vaccinated cluttering it up. | 03:00 |
| Tuvix | Here again, look at a _properly_ endemic virus, like seasonal flu. Yes, that one kills too, but it doesn't break healthcare in the process. | 03:01 |
| lastshell | a cousin in mexico was told me they space more the vaccines | 03:02 |
| lastshell | here in US for me the first and 2n was in just 21 days of difference | 03:02 |
| de-facto | here 6w in Germany | 03:03 |
| lastshell | is more effective space vaccines right ? | 03:03 |
| Tuvix | The UK was doing that early on too, opting to vacciante more with 1st jabs than target 2nd jabs as early. | 03:03 |
| de-facto | Germany mRNA scheme: 1st 6w 2nd 6m 3rd | 03:03 |
| Tuvix | It's not nessaraly more effective, no, but it lets you get more 1st doses in people before you give them 2nd, in a bid to offer at least some protection to more people given limited supplies. | 03:03 |
| lastshell | I see | 03:03 |
| de-facto | well it also depends when you need the protections | 03:04 |
| Tuvix | It's more a factor of supply than some kind of minimum time require to be effective. | 03:04 |
| de-facto | e.g. when a wave approaches, protection may be needed to be somewhat complete in advance | 03:04 |
| de-facto | if the goal is to safe as many lives as possible | 03:04 |
| Tuvix | Yes, that too; the populations that are more at risk may get them earlier because they really need protection as soon as possible when spread is high or they risk death. Even if it's perhaps not "ideal" in the sequence, not dying is viewed as more ideal than the alternative. | 03:04 |
| Tuvix | Sometimes medical health is doing what is required to save the patient even if you wouldn't do that for a normal, healthy individual. I wouldn't hack my arm off, but if the doctor said not doing it would likely kill me due to infection, I'd happily part with a limb for that exchange. | 03:05 |
| lastshell | this is why they target older people and first responders in the first vaccination wave ? | 03:06 |
| Tuvix | Exactly; they're more at-risk, and the best ROI is had when your supply is severely limited to target the groups you expect to see the most impact. | 03:06 |
| Tuvix | I'd argue this is why the younger groups (and their parents, for the youth) are more resistant to vaccines. They don't see as serious a risk and may opt to take a chance, but the charts I've linked here previously show that the younger groups have done WORSE (at least in the US) in the Delta wave (vs the alpha/winter 2020-21 wave) primarily becuase of lack of accpetance of vaccines. | 03:07 |
| Tuvix | The older group more cleraly understood their lives were more immediately at risk. While the younger groups are "better" off than the older ones, vaccines are going to improve your odds of surviving exposure regardless of your current age. | 03:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): More than 3,700 deaths reported today in the United States, which hasn't been seen since February 2021, the early phase of vaccination rolloutnewsnodes.com/us#Omicron can kill~90% of these deaths were preventable pic.twitter.com/NQLmxPypAq → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1484708665277833220 | 03:09 |
| de-facto | one of 6 deaths from COVID worldwide may be happening in US | 03:09 |
| de-facto | .cases | 03:10 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: the world has had 322.0 million confirmed cases (4.2% of all people) and 5.6 million deaths (1.7% of cases; 1 in 1378 people) as of 2 days ago. 4.7 billion tests were done (6.8% positive). 3.4 billion were vaccinated (44.0%). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=the%20world&legacy=no | 03:10 |
| de-facto | .cases US | 03:10 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: United States has had 65.0 million confirmed cases (19.7% of all people) and 868698 deaths (1.3% of cases; 1 in 379 people) as of 2 days ago. 848.0 million tests were done (7.7% positive). 244.9 million were vaccinated (74.3%). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20States&legacy=no | 03:10 |
| Tuvix | The acceleration in the US vs. the other top-10 (by raw deaths, not necessarily case-rate) is really disturbing. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/cumulative-cases (set 2nd chart from the top to deaths/100k pop to compare) | 03:10 |
| Tuvix | All the way back to Delta, the US took a sharp (in comparison) curve for 'more-death' than the other 9. | 03:11 |
| Tuvix | Yes, many countries have seen upticks with Omicron, but the US has seen a sustained increase that is not seen in the other 9 top-most-death-laden countries compared to the US. This is not a good trend. | 03:11 |
| de-facto | 5.6M / 0.86M ~ 6.51 | 03:11 |
| Tuvix | I can almost understand when Spain wants to open up, even if perhaps not a medically-driven headline, because over 90% of those eligible have been vaccinated there; the US cannot boast the same. | 03:12 |
| de-facto | yet just one of ~ 24 ~ 23.72 ~ 7.9b / 0.333b humans is US citizen though | 03:15 |
| de-facto | so if those 5.6M COVID deaths were distributed evenly on world population (and also reported with same probability) it would "only" be 5.6M / 24 ~ 233k fatal outcomes in US, thats 3.7-fold less than 0.86M | 03:18 |
| lastshell | .cases UK | 03:41 |
| Brainstorm | lastshell: United Kingdom has had 15.1 million confirmed cases (22.7% of all people) and 151831 deaths (1.0% of cases; 1 in 438 people) as of 2 days ago. 428.7 million tests were done (3.5% positive). 51.8 million were vaccinated (78.0%). See https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ | 03:41 |
| lastshell | UK deaths continue | 03:41 |
| -Bridgestorm- ⭕ Linog! Lindol! Earthquake! 6.1 M tremor, occurred 17 minutes ago (02:25:46 UTC), during daytime, Burgos, Philippines (9.23, 126.23) ± 40 km likely felt 300 km away (in Tandag, Tago, Cortes, Cantilan, San Miguel, Butuan…) by 1.1 million people (quakesearch.geonet.org.nz) | 03:43 | |
| -Bridgestorm- ⭕ Linog! Lindol! Earthquake! 6.3 M tremor, registered by scevent, occurred 20 minutes ago (02:25:46 UTC), during daytime, Cortes, Philippines (9.33, 126.25), ↓15 km likely felt 330 km away (in Tandag, Cortes, Tago, Cantilan, San Miguel, Carrascal…) by 1.0 million people (service.geonet.org.nz) | 03:46 | |
| LjL | lastshell, Brainstorm is actually out of date with the case data unfortunately | 03:49 |
| lastshell | :( | 03:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra… pic.twitter.com/2A3bqRkO0x → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1484725116483223558 | 04:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): If only we had a way to lower risk of death from Covid by 68-foldcovid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra… pic.twitter.com/lWwzMNPtDX → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1484728309652942856 | 04:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Experts highlight the neurological effects of SARS-CoV-2 and the need for rigorous research: "They also draw parallels between the symptoms experienced by individuals with Long Covid to those living with myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/Covid2019/comments/s9t8db/experts_highlight_the_neurological_effects_of/ | 06:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 856: COVID-19 clinical update #98 with Dr. Daniel Griffin: In COVID-19 clinical update #98, Daniel Griffin reviews COVID-19 in South Africa, recognition of Omicron by ancestral T cells, booster effectiveness against disease, infection and vaccination in pregnant women, early Remdesivir to prevent [... want %more?] → https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-856/ | 06:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Liz Carey (@AstroLizzy): Record covid infections, hospitalizations and deaths.. seems like an odd time for a victory lap ♀️ twitter.com/cdcdirector/st… → https://twitter.com/AstroLizzy/status/1484767753735008259 | 07:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Kiribati goes into first lockdown after Covid flight cases → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s9wa10/kiribati_goes_into_first_lockdown_after_covid/ | 07:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Russia: Omicron cases triple in 10 days, authorities ponder measures → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s9wujh/russia_omicron_cases_triple_in_10_days/ | 08:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, MD PhD (@michaelzlin): Remdesivir approved for outpatient use, 3x more effective than molnupravir.BTW the recent results prove definitively that it works. Last year it was falsely described as ineffective in a badly designed open label WHO trial. washingtonpost.com/health/2022/01… → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1484794890475106309 | 08:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | January 22, 2022: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/s9xi9z/daily_discussion_thread_january_22_2022/ | 09:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, MD PhD (@michaelzlin): Maybe useful to revisit misunderstandings of the past. Too often people accept top-line conclusions without critically evaluating the quality or content of a trial. We always knew remdesivir efficacy varies by patient stage; earlier the [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1484802948127330306 | 09:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Rupert Pearse (@rupert_pearse): COVID sitrep: Some positive news to report this week. We are definitely feeling a fall in NHS hospital and ICU admissions with covid in London this week. The rest of the UK should see a similar pattern in the coming days. This below appeared on our ICU [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/rupert_pearse/status/1484811524246024194 | 10:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: I've no time for Boris but didn't lots of us break rules in lockdown? → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s9yv4v/ive_no_time_for_boris_but_didnt_lots_of_us_break/ | 11:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Infection and transmission risks in schools and contribution to the COVID-19 pandemic in Germany – a retrospective observational study using nation-wide and regional health and education agency notification dataMasks work. medrxiv.org/content/10.110… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1484846827367288835 | 12:19 |
| Arsanerit | My nephew (6 years old, unvaccinated) tested positive and has symptoms, his mother (recovered and doubly vaccinated) is sick (test outstanding), my other sister's partner tested positive (no symptoms)... | 13:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Omicron greater risk for young than other variants; US trends follow South Africa, UK → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV/comments/sa1pz3/omicron_greater_risk_for_young_than_other/ | 14:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Ireland drops most COVID restrictions → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/sa2elw/ireland_drops_most_covid_restrictions/ | 14:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Mask up properly as Covid reinfection is highly possible, experts warn → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/sa34b6/mask_up_properly_as_covid_reinfection_is_highly/ | 15:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: David Wallace-Wells (@dwallacewells): Yesterday, 3,896 covid deaths were reported in the United States, the tenth deadliest day of the whole pandemic and the deadliest since the pre-vaccination surge last winter. Over the last four days, the total is 12,957. newsnodes.com/us/ → https://twitter.com/dwallacewells/status/1484893459509137414 | 15:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Colleen Moriarty @YaleMedicine (@ByColleenM): Reporter @T2Fox61 @FOX61News spoke to @VirusesImmunity @YaleMed about her new research, showing that even mild #COVID19 can have lasting effects on the brain. Lab research provides the underpinnings to help scientists develop therapeutics for [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/ByColleenM/status/1484898917070393345 | 16:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Debunking the notion that boosters don't reduce Omicron symptomatic infections. Another new study from Qatar shows they are halved medrxiv.org/content/10.110… matched >400,000 people with mRNA vaccines 2 vs 3-dose pic.twitter.com/LLew2mtDq3 → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1484921049540005890 | 17:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The booster reduction for Omicron symptomatic infections for 3-dose vs 2-dose was 66% in the @JAMA_current report yesterdayjamanetwork.com/journals/jama/… pic.twitter.com/bkhIyXEBp5 → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1484923334932393984 | 17:21 |
| Curiosa | Nice channel banner | 17:35 |
| Curiosa | I’m n line with the climate of hatred and fear that you COVID shills have created | 17:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Booster vaccine effectiveness vs Omicron infections 62% (2 dose 32%) @UKHSA in people without Prior Covid assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/upl…and higher with Prior Covid, hybrid immunity, as seen in all studies pic.twitter.com/m4g3vUKJcl → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1484926153689206785 | 17:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Further evidence of muddling/bias @nytimes. 3rd shot VE vs Delta hospitalizations & deaths was well established; the @UKHSA already reported booster 90% VE vs Omicron hospitalization 1 month agoLinks washingtonpost.com/health/2022/01… @bylenasun [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1484937204921036803 | 18:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Yet NYT continues to cite @DrPaulOffit and states "Some of those experts remained unconvinced by the new data." The data for booster Omicron hospitalization protection is incontrovertible. NYT is adding to public confusion by continuing to give voice to people who [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1484937208456876033 | 18:30 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/21/health/covid-boosters-cdc-omicron.html | 18:30 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.nytimes.com: As Omicron Crests, Booster Shots Are Keeping Americans Out of Hospitals - The New York Times | 18:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: A Restaurant Was Accepting Dog Pics Instead of Vaccine Proof. It Was Shut Down. → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/sa79lz/a_restaurant_was_accepting_dog_pics_instead_of/ | 18:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from Contagion Live: FDA Expands Remdesivir Approval for Patients at Risk of Severe COVID-19 Disease: Gilead’s remdesivir was granted expanded FDA approval to treat non-hospitalized adult and adolescent patients at high risk of severe or fatal COVID-19 [... want %more?] → https://www.contagionlive.com/view/fda-expands-remdesivir-approval-for-patients-at-risk-of-severe-covid-19-disease | 18:50 |
| Tuvix | dri/1 | 19:08 |
| Klinda | I am still postive after 10 days, no syptoms at all.. | 19:08 |
| LjL | remdesivir...? i thought it was being sorta phased out | 19:13 |
| LjL | Klinda, not uncommon | 19:14 |
| Klinda | it happens same way if we do the flu test? | 19:19 |
| Tuvix | Klinda: A recent UKHSA study estimated that 5% of people test positive 10 days after the first positive test, and another similar study estimated perhaps even has high as 10%. That makes not not uncommon at all, even if not the most likely result. | 19:36 |
| Tuvix | (for COVID specifically that is) | 19:37 |
| `St0ner | "A group called Urban Alchemy recruits former Crips and dealers to shoo away people using and selling fentanyl, which killed more residents last year than COVID did" | 19:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Philippines' presidential hopefuls tout post-pandemic recovery plans → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/sa90uh/philippines_presidential_hopefuls_tout/ | 19:58 |
| Klinda | I think the problem is that I am home with 3 positive too | 20:06 |
| Klinda | so we switch the virus ? | 20:06 |
| Klinda | xD | 20:06 |
| Tuvix | The test requires the virus had enough time to multiply to show up on the test; that's why there's a lag time between becoming inefected and showing positive, and that time is a bit longer (on the order of a day or several) for antigen tests as compared to PCR tests. | 20:08 |
| lastshell | Klinda did you vent / clean your home / room ? | 20:08 |
| Klinda | yes every day when I wake up I open all | 20:09 |
| LjL | Klinda, i've never had or heard of people who've had a flu test so i don't really know :P | 20:09 |
| lastshell | flu or covid test ? | 20:10 |
| Klinda | I was saying if after 10 days is common to have a flu test postive, for example | 20:10 |
| lastshell | not familiar with flu test | 20:11 |
| Klinda | the good news is that I feel fine, but my test is postive | 20:11 |
| lastshell | maybe you are a super asymptomatic :P | 20:11 |
| lastshell | I hear they is a new "sub-variant" of omicron | 20:14 |
| lastshell | LjL: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ba2-omicron-variant-cases-england-b1998151.html | 20:16 |
| Tuvix | There are at least 3 sub-varients being monitored as I understand, but none are any more cause for alarm than omicron is already unless I missed some very recent news. | 20:17 |
| lastshell | wow 3 subs | 20:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The hunt for explaining Omicron's hyper-transmissibility, beyond its immune evasionThe Spike S655Y mutationcell.com/cell-host-micr… @cellhostmicrobe Resilience to Type I interferon (our innate immunity)biorxiv.org/content/10.110… pic.twitter.com/IU1PzvxAYM → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1484966291811102720 | 20:18 |
| Tuvix | Mutations aren't unexpected in general, and especially not with how many infections there have been globaly. | 20:18 |
| LjL | Tuvix, it seems potentially more transmissible though given how many of the sequenced cases in Denmark are already due to it | 20:25 |
| LjL | but with the usual caveats, founder effects etc | 20:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Omicron; not a walk in the park!theguardian.com/australia-news… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1484968768866508800 | 20:28 |
| lastshell | LjL and Tuvix if I had omicron I wll not get more infected of omicron or sub-omicron variants or is to early to call it ? | 20:30 |
| LjL | but also, it's been "there" for quite some time, look https://outbreak.info/location-reports?loc=DNK&pango=BA.2&dark=true&selected=BA.2 | 20:30 |
| LjL | lastshell, too early | 20:30 |
| lastshell | ok | 20:31 |
| LjL | they say in the article it's possible (but i think it's completely speculation) that BA.2 is more transmissible *because* it can reinfect people who had been infected by BA.1 | 20:32 |
| LjL | so it can't be ruled out, at least | 20:32 |
| xx | don't view previous infection as carte blanche to ignore all precautions | 20:33 |
| LjL | someone i know had COVID, recovered, and then went "well now for what i'm concerned, i'm done with the pandemic" | 20:33 |
| LjL | i didn't even tell them they were wrong because they're the kind of person who'd rather convince themselves of something to feel better than look at reality | 20:33 |
| xx | well they are done for 180 days officially | 20:33 |
| LjL | but if immunity caused you to be "done" with the pandemic, well, then they'd have been "done" after getting vaccinated in the first place | 20:34 |
| LjL | sadly it's not how it works | 20:34 |
| `St0ner | i'm almost recovered. still a mild lingering cough | 20:34 |
| Tuvix | xx: No, not officially, since they can get re-infected. Maybe you meant within the framework of whatever local (to you, I suppose) jurisdiction has rules structured like that, but the virus can absolutely reinfect people, sometimes just weeks apart between infections. | 20:34 |
| `St0ner | some study said 1 in 10 recovered covid patients are still transmissible 10-68 days after initial onset | 20:34 |
| LjL | xx, i don't know what that means. they may have a certificate that is valid for 180 days but that's a legal matter that has little to do with their risk of reinfection, which definitely doesn't suddenly change on the 181st day | 20:35 |
| ecks | we should have a 68-day quarantine for all cases | 20:35 |
| Tuvix | This is more common with say Delta to Omicron, given that a confirmed delta infection does not confir as much protection against Omicron as we would have liked. | 20:35 |
| xx | Tuvix: I'm aware, the government isn't aware. | 20:35 |
| xx | hence the 'officially' | 20:35 |
| LjL | the government is well aware, but they cannot make a certificate that's only "80% valid" after a given amount of time... | 20:35 |
| LjL | maybe we should all have a device that tells us how many meters exactly we must keep from others depending on how long ago we received our last immunization | 20:36 |
| xx | LjL: the gov literally prints pieces of paper that are only worth 90% of what they were after a year | 20:36 |
| LjL | (that is a joke, please don't suggest that to your governments, they may take it seriously) | 20:36 |
| LjL | xx, because of paper cost inflation? | 20:37 |
| xx | heh, that'd be a fun reason for monetary inflation | 20:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Scott Gottlieb, MD (@ScottGottliebMD): Two years ago today, from the World Health Organization. January, 22, 2020 -- one month after the outbreak in Wuhan was first publicly identified.tinyurl.com/2p876k5u pic.twitter.com/VnCB32tnxE → https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1484971081232523264 | 20:37 |
| Tuvix | I'd link you to charts showing that, no, inflation is not sustained at 10% annually for a long-term period of time, but I'd hate to get in the way of the hyperbole. Don't mistake short-term trends for some kind of intrinsic rule. | 20:38 |
| Tuvix | "I doubled my money at this hand of poker. Poker must be a way to double your cash on hand each round!" | 20:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China brings back anal swab testing for Covid two weeks before Winter Olympics begin → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/saa5rw/china_brings_back_anal_swab_testing_for_covid_two/ | 20:47 |
| xx | I really don't get why they don't use anal swabs in the west | 20:51 |
| dTal | who's they? speak for yourself | 20:51 |
| * dTal reaches over and pats his bedside table fondly | 20:52 | |
| xx | does any western country use anal swabs as a means of testing for covid? | 20:52 |
| xx | or did I misunderstand your message? | 20:52 |
| LjL | probably because when "we" learned of China using them, there seemed to be almost more outrage than there is about, say, them torturing Uyghurs | 20:53 |
| LjL | so if we used them, i think many people here would be pretty butthurt | 20:54 |
| xx | so you're saying nobody cares about Uyghurs, they are not assholes? | 20:54 |
| LjL | it's a theory | 20:55 |
| Klinda | but if the virus stay more days, can do more damage? or now is like "low" as I have no syptoms at all? | 20:56 |
| dTal | well wait a sec, why should we be using anal swabs? | 20:56 |
| dTal | are they more effective? If so, why does ONLY China use them? | 20:57 |
| xx | Klinda: well yeah, the virus kills cells by replicating in them. The longer it stays, the more cells die. | 20:57 |
| LjL | dTal, you mean the same China that also manages to keep the virus largely out unlike largely everyone else? | 20:57 |
| xx | dTal: there's a reason china has such low numbers, they clearly must be doing something right | 20:57 |
| dTal | Sure. Is there a reason to think it's the anal swabs? | 20:58 |
| xx | I can imagine people would be more likely to put on the mask if they new they'd get an anal swab if they suddenly started coughing | 20:58 |
| Tuvix | Meanwhile, on American Airlines flight 38, 1 customer refusing to wear a mask caused the whole flight to be turned around. | 20:59 |
| dTal | Intuitively I would expect viral load to be lower in the anus than in the nose and throat, especially in the early stages, for a disease you catch by inhaling | 20:59 |
| LjL | dTal, i don't think it's a particularly valid reason, but i can mention that viral RNA has been found in the stool for longer than it has been found in the throat | 20:59 |
| Tuvix | The freedom to be an asshole is relative to how likely one is to do so with fairly low consequences (although she now faces some pretty serious federal charges as a result of that stunt.) | 20:59 |
| LjL | but since we don't know whether 1) that's functioning virus, and 2) it can infect others, maybe it's not a valid reason | 20:59 |
| dTal | LjL: Okay, but it's only useful if it's found *before* | 20:59 |
| dTal | longer is useless | 20:59 |
| xx | Tuvix: sadly she has a good enough legal case if she's found to be negative. If she's found to be positive though... | 21:00 |
| Klinda | xx: but then the system will replace the dying cells right? | 21:00 |
| Tuvix | xx: No, that's not how it works. Federal regulators are taking this very seriously and a good number of these types of people are put on no-fly lists. How well versed on this topic are you? | 21:01 |
| Tuvix | xx: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/delta-adds-460-passengers-who-refused-masks-no-fly-list-n1244573 | 21:01 |
| xx | Tuvix: well enough to have been put on a no-flight list and won in court to have it overturned | 21:01 |
| LjL | dTal, unless someone is still contagious, and earlier `St0ner said "some study" has found people can be contagious up to 68 days after first positive... i don't know if that is true and instead what i've heard most often is that especially with Omicron and/or vaccination, people don't stay positive for very long. however what kind of irks me about these assumptions is that *we have so much virus in the west that contact tracing has been absolutely impossible, and | 21:01 |
| LjL | not even attempted, for a long time*. so it's like when i read "don't worry, cats can't infect humans": my reaction is "how the fuck do you know?" | 21:01 |
| dTal | well anecdotally I've hung out with a small of people who all *just* cleared covid, and didn't get infected, so they're obviously not contagious in the same sense | 21:03 |
| * LjL waits for xx to bring up the subjects of how many farts you could detect | 21:03 | |
| dTal | we don't do thorough contact tracing, but we do still observe things | 21:03 |
| dTal | if people were genuinely contagious for much longer than we currently thing, we'd notice immediately | 21:04 |
| xx | LjL: think bigger - how many farts you could *prevent*. Buttplugs are the next step in controlling this pandemic. | 21:04 |
| LjL | dTal, but you must consider that China is still going for an absolute zero covid strategy. if you want *zero* cases to get in your country, or at least to try as hard as conceivably possible, then even if that person who's still shedding live virus after 68 days is just one out of a thousand, you still want to know | 21:04 |
| xx | because pants don't filter as well as a N95 material | 21:04 |
| lastshell | lol buttplugs | 21:04 |
| LjL | xx, now that's just wishful thinking | 21:05 |
| dTal | pretty sure a fart will just eject a buttplug | 21:05 |
| xx | it doesn't | 21:05 |
| lastshell | I dont know but not willing to experiment | 21:05 |
| LjL | clearly xx knows | 21:05 |
| lastshell | gross | 21:06 |
| dTal | well then in that case it either leaks around, rendering the buttplug pointless for fart-oriented source control, or else intestinal gas will build up pressure in a dangerous fashion | 21:06 |
| lastshell | anyway other forms to prevent that doesn't involve foreing objects inside or body ? | 21:06 |
| xx | haven't you heard? Coronavirus uses mucosal tissue, and your butt is full of that - so use a buttplug as a PPE, don't give rona the chance to infect you that way. | 21:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Since the booster protection vs Delta symptomatic infections was 95% and vs Omicron it is ~50%, that is a 10-fold increase in breakthroughsWhich is why there is the misperception that there is no booster protection from infections or transmission w/ Omicron*when [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1484977927884132352 | 21:07 |
| lastshell | I hardly pass, and Im pro masker | 21:07 |
| xx | dTal: we just need more advanced buttplugs then, that are hollow inside and contain a filter | 21:08 |
| LjL | use a cigarette butt. it even has a name hinting at that | 21:08 |
| lastshell | speaking of buttplugs let me watch some porn brb | 21:09 |
| xx | on a serious note, getting infected from farts probably happens just like getting infected by hamsters | 21:10 |
| xx | it's not being talked about much, because other ways of getting infected are so much more common | 21:10 |
| xx | maybe banning beans would flatten the curve? | 21:11 |
| LjL | your belly's curve maybe | 21:12 |
| xx | definitely, I feel bloated | 21:13 |
| LjL | anyway it's funny how googling "anal swabs china" and limiting the results to the last months brings up complaints that they re-instated this kind of testing weeks before the Olympics... but all the complaining article are from, let's see, NY Post, Daily Mail, Newsweek, Daily Star... (okay some others that i know less about too) | 21:13 |
| xx | I'm surprised the olympics are still happening | 21:14 |
| LjL | xx, you do have to download a mandatory app two weeks after leaving to China if you're an athlete or a spectator | 21:15 |
| LjL | so i'm sure it will be fine | 21:15 |
| LjL | %title https://np.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/s8259o/crosscountry_exposure_analysis_of_the_my2022/ | 21:16 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From np.reddit.com: Cross-country Exposure: Analysis of the MY2022 Olympics App : privacy | 21:16 |
| LjL | %title https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1484977927884132352 this thread | 21:19 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, the URL could not be loaded | 21:19 |
| * LjL swabs Brainstorm in the bum | 21:20 | |
| * Brainstorm starts to throw LjL with some undatable wrongness | 21:20 | |
| LjL | know me so well | 21:20 |
| LjL | anyway | 21:20 |
| LjL | i think vaccine efficacy against infection is an important topic, because if *there is any*, even if it's low, it gets "amplified" by the exponential transmission | 21:20 |
| LjL | however, when Topol just gives data talking about *symptomatic* infections, does that really tell us anything? | 21:21 |
| xx | they could do a better job of labelling their graphs | 21:21 |
| LjL | it's nice not to get symptoms, i guess, but unless we know that translates to also not being infectious, it's not epidemiologically very important (or in the worst case it could be counterproductive as people who'd otherwise half symptoms and hopefully self-isolate may not...?) | 21:21 |
| xx | "covid cases" is a meaningless title. Is that infections? Hospitalizations? ICU? Deaths? | 21:22 |
| LjL | forget the graph, look at the tables *above* that tweet instead | 21:22 |
| xx | ah, thanks | 21:23 |
| LjL | at least SIREN *appears* to be about asymptomatic as well as symptomatic | 21:24 |
| LjL | so prioritize https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1048395/technical-briefing-34-14-january-2022.pdf maybe above the two studies he cites | 21:24 |
| `St0ner | https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(21)01206-6/fulltext is the source for that 10-68 day contagiousness study | 21:24 |
| `St0ner | “At five days, 30 percent of people still exhibited clinically relevant levels of potentially active virus,” said study leader Lorna Harries of the University of Exeter Medical School in England. After a 10-day quarantine, one in 10 people might still be infectious, she said. Some people retained these levels for up to 68 days, the researchers said. “There was nothing clinically | 21:25 |
| `St0ner | remarkable about these people, which means we wouldn’t be able to predict who they are,” Harries said in a news release. | 21:25 |
| `St0ner | "The study was conducted before the Delta and Omicron coronavirus variants began circulating last year. The researchers intend to conduct larger trials to confirm their findings" | 21:25 |
| LjL | "potentially acive"? | 21:25 |
| LjL | do they know the virus is live or do they just think since there's RNA there might be virus | 21:26 |
| xx | how can something be used as a reference for confidence intervals... | 21:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): And, as reported in yesterday's @CDCMMWR, boosted 50% reduction in cases during Omicron wave cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/7… pic.twitter.com/Zs1t02LA2J → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1484983225365655552 | 21:26 |
| `St0ner | i believe all of those details are in the study | 21:26 |
| LjL | xx, hm? | 21:26 |
| LjL | ah right i saw that study actually | 21:27 |
| xx | LjL: just ignore me, I'm unhappy with how people usually present data for publication, and that it still passes | 21:27 |
| LjL | xx, if that's about the UK report, that didn't need to pass anything, it's a government report | 21:28 |
| LjL | as to `St0ner's study, they *think* that sgRNA in particular may be a decent proxy for infectiousness. they might be right, i really have no idea | 21:28 |
| `St0ner | what is your domain of expertise? | 21:29 |
| LjL | IRC | 21:30 |
| `St0ner | lulz | 21:31 |
| LjL | i certainly cannot assess that study, but it looks like a fairly indirect metric | 21:32 |
| LjL | at the same time more direct metrics would be either difficult to find, or highly unethical | 21:32 |
| xx | ethics should never be in the way of science | 21:32 |
| LjL | xx, don't start | 21:33 |
| xx | still needs to be mentioned every time, so that people know why we don't have nice things | 21:33 |
| `St0ner | ethics, politics, etc are all inter-related and co-dependent | 21:33 |
| `St0ner | just the way the world works | 21:33 |
| `St0ner | damn, you ARE good at IRC | 21:34 |
| `St0ner | lol | 21:34 |
| lastshell | wow few times I saw LjL kick some one | 21:35 |
| LjL | it's for his own good, and he knows it or he'd have already rejoined | 21:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): SimilarlyAssociation Between 3 Doses of mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine and Symptomatic Infection Caused by the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron and Delta Variantsjamanetwork.com/journals/jama/… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1484987294570496006 | 21:36 |
| lastshell | I thing xx is a she | 21:36 |
| lastshell | but I don't recall verywell | 21:36 |
| `St0ner | the last time i looked at this channel (a few days ago), LjL was flexin the boot on somebody that day too | 21:38 |
| dTal | there's a sudden surge of covidiocy for some reason | 21:43 |
| `St0ner | i think some covidiocy should be tolerated in an environment with minimal reach and impact to the real world population (such as this channel), just to test your communications skills and persuasiveness to see if you can elicit a civil conversation with them, without being butthurt and insulted when someone hints at disagreeing with you or a proven publication that they might not have seen | 21:53 |
| LjL | `St0ner, xx has repeatedly shown disregard for fellow human beings and ethics, they literally think ethics is irrelevant when doing science, and they also think humans should go extinct, and this is all in stark contrast with this channel's guidelines and everything it stands for. they've been told about this multiple times, repeatedly, and i told them that they are free to have any view *in their head* but some things are not okay to state here (even per network | 21:59 |
| LjL | policy, if we had gone on with the subject of "no science ethics"). i told them this time too, but they decided to say they will continue to do it, hence they got a kick. hope that clarifies the situation. | 21:59 |
| `St0ner | fair enough, sounds like the limits of tolerance were pushed | 22:20 |
| Arsanerit | dTal: does covidiocy fluctuate much as a function of time? I hadn't noticed. | 22:32 |
| dTal | Well it might be an illusion, but certainly the frequency of people coming into the channels and ranting seems to form clusters. And it seems to correlate across the different covid channels. | 22:38 |
| Arsanerit | I didn't know there were other covid channels. | 22:38 |
| dTal | More proof that nobody reads the topic, I guess. | 22:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Carlos del Rio (@CarlosdelRio7): An excellent COVID-19 Risk Framework for prioritizing therapies presented at @RealTimeCOVID19 @IDSAInfo @CDCgov Clinician Call today. pic.twitter.com/pNjHz2HW4G → https://twitter.com/CarlosdelRio7/status/1484997114136571910 | 23:02 |
| Arsanerit | Oh, those I knew. | 23:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, MD PhD (@michaelzlin): Here's another reason boosters that include Omicron spike are needed even after this wave passes: those who avoided Omicron so far will become spreaders and victims of an Omicron rebound in the fall.We'll need boosters of some sort for sure, so best [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1485013946985713664 | 23:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Josiah 'So Mild' Grindrod (@JT_Grindrod): Agree with all of this.To be clear, the pandemic never ending was a voluntary decision by our leadership, not a function of the virus.We have the tools necessary, we just don't want to. twitter.com/nailatrahman/s… → https://twitter.com/JT_Grindrod/status/1485018637907857410 | 23:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Omicron found to have higher environmental stability among SARS-CoV-2 variants → https://old.reddit.com/r/Covid2019/comments/saeel2/omicron_found_to_have_higher_environmental/ | 23:52 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid-19 NZ: New Zealand to move to red at 11.59pm tonight after mystery Omicron cases → https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/sadpia/covid19_nz_new_zealand_to_move_to_red_at_1159pm/ | 23:53 |
| LjL | and first comment goes "We've become so vaccinated now, it's hard to see a wave of serious cases enveloping the country similar to what happened in Europe and North America." | 23:53 |
| LjL | complacency as usual... i mean, with NZ's usual measures, they might not have a huge wave (although "red light" doesn't mean lockdown, the article explains), but if a wave did take place, i don't how a high vaccination rate (it says 58% boosted, which is high, but it's basically 58% with *any* amount of resistance to Omicron infection, and the rest, none!) | 23:54 |
| LjL | ... would magically spare a surge like we had in Europe, also with high vaccination rates (at least in parts of it) | 23:54 |
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